Additional "security" at American airports

[ramsrc]

Yesterday, my wife returned from Los Angeles six days late but otherwise, thankfully, safely.

One point which did concern both of us more than a little is the "increased security" which she experienced at LAX. Travellers are being advised to arrive at the airport three and a half hours before international flights. However, these extra security measures are just not in place.

Her passport was checked at check in and she was asked the usual security questions. (Including are you carrying any scissors, pens, knives, nail files and so on in your hand luggage). She was then handed her boarding pass. At no point was any check carried out on her hand luggage and once in posession of the boarding pass she was able to move freely around the entire airport. Never again was her identity checked or matched with her boarding pass, meaning she could have given her boarding pass to anybody
at the airport to board the plane instead.

When she and other passengers on board the aircraft raised this with the airline staff they were told that "being European" they did not understand the situation and while they needed vigilant people like them, their passports/ID had been checked at the check-in counter and it would also be checked upon arrival in Frankfurt and with regard to
baggage searches nobody need be concerned as they knew what they were doing!

If this is increased security, how on earth can last Tuesdays terrible events be prevented from happening again?

[CRJ200]

Good Point.

I don't want to talk about loopholes in airport security in the interest's of safety but I came through La Guardia airport yesterday morning in uniform with all the apropriate security badges visible and had my bag searched. Which of course they should. They opened my toilet bag and confiscated my razorblades from my Gillete mach 2 razor and a pair of tweezers. But they didn't even look in my friends toilet bag who had a pair of scissors and a razor and other stuff. Inconsistant? I'd say so. Will overnighting flight crews now have to buy razors in every destination outstation from now on? Or perhaps allowed to grow beards?

My question is.....How is confiscating Grandma's toe-nail clippers going to help crack down on hijacking?

Typical kneejerk reaction. They are closing the door after the horses have bolted.

[Porky Speedpig]

Sadly I can only agree. I travelled out of LAS on Sunday and was advised to check in 4 hrs early. Result? A 3hr 58 minute wait for departure. No queue. No hand search. My wife's bag contained scissors and files etc.
At PHX same story. My wife's passport and ticket were in different names. No query (no request to see marriage cert etc). Hopeless!
A month after Lockerbie I had the same experience at EWR checking in for a PanAm flight. Do these people never learn?

[Mr A Tis]

Sadly, have to agree with the above posts. Just heard from a Captain on US major carrier who confirms the "enhanced" security is inadequate.
I have my own experiences of abysmal US security-which I have reported both to the airlines concerned & the NTSB.
Here, in MAN you are no longer allowed ANY cabin baggage on board.
Wake up America.
Ban Cabin baggage altogther
Match checked bags with pax
Check ID at gate with ticket
Search all pax
Until the US can bring themselves up to some sort of European standard, I have no desire to fly from a US airport.

[whatshouldiuse]

All;

You are all 100% correct. But let's be realistic. How quickly can you change a nation's entire Airport Security System?

In Europe, security is controlled by the government and here in the U.S, it's controlled by the airlines. This means people currently running security are paid minimum wage and turnover is high. Last year at Logan in Boston, it was over 200%.


Things will change. They already are. It just can't and won't happen overnight though, as much as i wish it could.


Thanks from somebody who went to "Ground Zero" this past week and is still trying to get the smell of human flesh, dust, dirt and destruction out of their clothes.

We're doing the best we can right now under the circumstances.


Andy Morrell

[yellow dust]

What garbage. Ban all carry on bags? Why not go all the way and make the passengers and crew fly naked? This is total insanity and the European security is not any different to most US airports, no matter what you say. If you are white, you will fly hassle free. If you are Arab, you will be watched and prodded.
The WTC hijackers would have passed even today's security checks. I won't tell you how here, but believe me, it is possible to get box cutters and small knives on board regardless of what the idiots are doing now. The failure was with Intelligence. And today's failure is with intelligence too.
Ban skycaps. What a load of codswallop. Since when has a skycap caused or contributed to a hijacking or other terrorist incident? In fact, since they are on the spot all the time, it is more likely that they will identify the terrorist before he gets anywhere near the airplane.
Never in my life have I seen such a mindless kneejerk reaction. There are plenty of things that can be done to improve security, but the new rules at places like LAX will just offend the honest person and cause him to keep away from such idiot bureaucracy, while the real terrorist will laugh and go about his business unmolested. The only aim the idiots have is to make it look as if they are doing something. The passengers, who are trained to believe authority (more fool them) are impressed. Or frightened away.
Cutting steak with a spatula! Banning lettuce from the airport cafes because there are no knives (even plastic) to cut it. Taking nail files off passengers. And now no carry on bags? Where will I keep my asthma Medicine? Who will I sue when I have an attack and can't medicate myself?
Total garbage.

[radeng]

No handbaggage effectively means nobody can travel with a baby or young child - unless the airline provides nappies, bottles, toys and so on. Unless there's an absolute guarantee that baggage won't be lost or delayed, those people going away for a couple of weeks needing to take medication won't be able to fly. Even with a guarantee not to lose the baggae with the medication in, there's the problem of drugs needed in flight.

At a time when the industry is in crisis, the last thing that's needed is to introduce measures which are a positive disincentive to travel.

[Mr A Tis]

My understanding is that the cabin baggage ban excludes, things essential for the flight - like medications & baby things - these are then thoroughly searched - sometimes twice before boarding.
Is there any need for all these huge "suitcases" you Americans try and carry in the cabin ? NO - all you want is to save some minutes in the baggage hall - If you don't need it for the flight - it should be in the hold.

[skintmuppet]

Well said Mr A!

When pax take huge bags into the cabin, how often do they actually use anything in them? Medication? Of course. A book? Probably. Baby equipment? A few pax per flight.

The point is 95% of hand baggage is needless. Some UK airlines are still insisting only essentials are carried, and even then they are placed into see-through plastic bags to make security checks easier and faster.

The American carriers should be free to do what they like in their own back yard. If they don't want to do it right, more fool them. But when they fly out of the UK or Europe, Governments should be able to insist that all the time they are over our airspace, and over our potential targets, we should be able to insist what goes into the aircraft cabin.

I know that this will not eradicate the threat of terrorism, but if so many people managed to hijack so many aircraft in one go, something drastic has to be done NOW.

As for crews complaining of having equipment removed from them, I think everyone has to put things into perspective. Knives and bottle openers are needed for flights. But how many do you need? Some carriers seem to have one each. Is this neccessary? Surely one or two per flight is more than adaquate. The reason they are taken off is not because of what YOU could do with them, but what someone ELSE could do with them during the flight. I know that is obvious but some crews have had difficulty understanding it this past week.

All we need is a bit of common sense. That goes for the authorities as well as crew and staff. The checks are a pain. We all know that. But if it closes one more door, one more way that an aircraft can he hijacked, surely it has to be a good thing.

I'll just hold on tight now and wait for the backlash...

[radeng]

skintmuppet

>All we need is a bit of common sense. That goes for the authorities as well as crew and staff.

Well said! Plus anything that can be done to restore confidence and get bums back on seats.

[whatshouldiuse]

Yellow Dust;

After posting the statement: "This is total insanity and the European security is not any different to most US airports," one of two things.


You have either never flown internally in the U.S or you're living in a dream world.


There is no comparison...period. Hopefully one day, there will be.


Whatshouldiuse

[yellow dust]

I guess I tried to put too much into my post. What I wanted to stress was that the security in the US is now insane. It is ineffective, has no point to it, will not result in safer flights and will cause many people to avoid flying in future. If we want to destroy aviation in the US, this is the way to do it.

I have, as a matter of fact, flown all over the US and Europe as crew and as a passenger, and I se no difference. I still have to put my bag thru security and the staff use the same machine. My leatherman and screwdriver have never been intercepted, even after 9/11, in either place. The security relies on the passenger self-declaring theses items, not on them being caught by the scanners. I could go on more but I believe it is not the sort of information that should be on a public forum.
In the US they are insistent on photo ID, whereas in the EU, once you are in, there are no ID checks. I did not think that the security was that bad in either place.
I must admit though, that Heathrow had superior security, at least for the crew.
The WTC disaster was a failure of Intelligence, particularly that of the FBI. It is not the job of an Xray operator to determine if the person is a wanted terrorist.

[GeofJ]

I have to agree that US airport security needs major improvement - but thats been my opinion for several years of extensive biz travel. I for one would be happy to pay more for a professional armed security screening force that could actually take some action to prevent further terrorist acts. After all with the crazy fares out there for biz travel whats a few more bucks? I do object to knee jerk reactions that have no impact on safety like taking away bottle openers from cabin crew. Lets spend the effort on something more meaningful!

[RiverCity]

I just returned from a New England/Canada cruise, from Dorval to JFK. My carry-on was searched twice -- once at the regular security gate and again just before I boarded the aircraft (an American Eagle Saab). My checked bag was also searched, rather thoroughly and cameras to be turned on. I pulled out my passport so often, I thought I would wear it out. They checked everything but the fillings in my teeth.
I disagree with one comment in the previous post, a negative feeling about not seeing security personnel. IMO, the best Security can be the Security you do not see.

I think the "no nail clippers" is overkill, but I have to respect their judgement on this, as there might be a very good reason.

btw: Security on the ship (Holland America Line's "Amsterdam") was just as tight. The attack occurred partway through the cruise, but we still had pre-boarding carry-on searches and metal-detector gates. After the attack, we were allowed back on the ship, during port calls, with the same level of security as if we were boarding an airplane.

No carry-on, as a safety measure? I mean no offense to the baggage-handlers, but do you really think my camera bag will be returned to me as full as when I checked it? Hellooooooooooo??

Condolences to all; I also suffered a loss on United 175.