Flybe Management Reshuffle.

[Agent Oringe]

Knock, Knock....

Who's there?

Mike.

Mike Who?

Ah well, that's Flight Operations for you. ;)

[Smokie]

You appear to have hit the nail on the head mate.:ok:

[Flying Fiona]

Well I guess this is the new thread regarding the Ops Director.

Why Mr moderator did you close the last one? Do you work for Flybe? Are you Mr Plank?

No requirement to throw your toys out the pram just because a certain individual has been removed from his position. I know the Ops director did that very thing.

[fokker]

Right! I've had enough of this!!

MW may or may not have had shortcomings as a manager but there is no excuse for airing private grievances on a public forum.

FF: before you gob off any more, I suggest you find out the personal heartache that has made it appropriate for MW to have his load reduced. When you have, you can apologise equally publicly, then hang your head in shame. Otherwise, keep your crewroom whining just there, in the crewroom. At least there, no-one has to listen to you.

:yuk: :*


Rant ends!

[Nil further]

FF and others

As said before here , i have been a very strong critic of flybe and its management and some of its operational practices , i worked there nearly six years .

I always found MW to be straight with me , if i asked an honest question i received an honest answer . Mike had more integrity in his little finger than the ex Jet Fleet manager had in his body , yet i remember many times Smokie and others telling me what a great guy J.C. was .

Any flight ops director wil try and get his crews to do the max possible amount of work for the minimum amount of money , thats business ! if you guys couldnt get organised enough to stop it , hardly his fault is it .

I hope you will hang your heads in shame when the truth outs and will publish a suitable apology .


edited for grammar/spelling

[Torycanyon]

In my opinion, the reshuffle is directly related to the Haemorrhaging of pilots from the company to other airlines. Over 100 pilots have voted with their feet but I believe that the figure may be nearer 150. This must be some kind of record for a UK airline?

The Days Off In Lieu debacle, must surely have also been a contributary factor.:(

[Raw Data]

I have to agree with Nil Further and fokker .

There is so much nonsense being touted as fact.

I know exactly what happened, as many senior flybe pilots do. He wasn't removed from anything, he hasn't been "demoted", and the recent re-shuffle had nothing to do with his performance as Ops Director.

In all my dealings with MW, he has been unfailingly honest and fair. On several occasions, he has helped me out when faced with difficult basing or crewing situations. He has always supported me when I have taken a problem to him, be it mine or somebody elses. He has also supported me when I have made unpopular command decisions (unpopular with Ops and Crewing, that is). He has never asked me to bend a rule, and had often written to thank me when I have gone the extra mile to get a sick aircraft home, or worked during leave, and so on.

I just get so sick of people being bagged for no reason. Some of you might think you have reasons to feel aggrieved, but I think you will find that in most cases, the object of your anger was simply following flybe policy, which is what he is paid to do. Nil Further is right, he is ten times the manager (and human being) than our ex-jet FM ever was.

I also knew MW in Air UK, and I know that most of the stories from there are nonsense too.

Some of you might think that this post is a piece of "kiss ass". It isn't, I no longer work for flybe. Nothing to gain for me.

As Nil Further has said, some of you will be very ashamed of your comments when you discover what actually happened.

[Smokie]

Nil Further,
You are mistaken. I never had any faith in the previous General Manager Jets, let alone sing his praises here on PPRuNe.
Never Happened.

Our new leader at the helm has all the hallmarks of steering the company out of the muddy waters.

RD,
You have rose tinted spectacles mate. Remind me again why you left?

The Flow chart in the colour brouchure that we all recieved yesterday, clearly shows that MW is no longer in Flight Ops. He has been moved sideways to Flight Safety, sitting along side that other miscreant in that department.:oh:

[Raw Data]

Smokie

Remind me again why you left?

Certainly. I left to return to NZ so that my two kids could get to know their dying grandfather before he passed away. I took six months leave of absence and elected not to return. All that was facilitated by MW.

Sorry you asked now, are you? :rolleyes:

[Smokie]

RD,
Sorry to hear about your Father.
However, I believe that there were also other reasons why you left?

let's not hi-jack a potentially good thread though eh!

[Raw Data]

Smokie

Thanks, although it was my father-in-law... not quite so bad...

Anyway, it is fair to say that when I left, I was pretty cheesed off... having thought I was nice and stable at EDI - I had moved four times for the company in four years - I was once again faced with a move as the companies' plans changed. It had already been a bad two years, with constant night-stopping as the LCY had stopped and we were being shunted around the network.

However, none of that was MWs fault, it was all decided by the Commercial department. He did his best to help out with sympathetic rostering and the like, making sure that were treated as well as possible by Crewing. Even when I got really frustrated and let fly with an angry email (think I must have sent a few of those!), his reaction was ALWAYS one of politeness, respect and concern. He COULD have just told me to shut up and get on with it, but he never did, he always tried to help out - not just me, but all the EDI crews. I never bothered communicating with JC, he was about as sympathetic as a piranha. Mike even came up to EDI personally to tell us what was going on, and brought JF and the boys with him. JC never once showed his face in EDI to meet or support his crews.

When it was decided that the 146 would leave EDI for good - again, a commercial decision - he went out of his way to offer me several options. I could move to SOU on the 146, stay in EDI and join the Q400 fleet (god... nooooo...!!!! :p ), and so on. In the end, I opted for the unpaid leave as the timing was perfect to make that move.

Being an Ops Director is like being a Captain on a flight that diverts somewhere unpleasant. As soon as you decide to do so, for the best possible reasons, you can bet your bottom dollar that a hundred or so people (less on the Q400) are going to instantly hate you and everything you stand for. Many people - ground staff, other crew, management - are going to be wishing you were never born, because their lives just turned to custard, too. Never mind that you just saved their miserable hides from a potential catastrophe, they will hate you all the same, with a blind, unreasoning, irrational hatred.

Part of holding a senior management position is accepting that the above is going to happen, and also accepting that, from time to time, you will have to implement unpopular policies. The measure of the man (or woman) is the degree of humanity that is evident in the way in which those decisions are implemented.

I have met quite a few people who will tell you that they have been lied to by MW, but it is almost never the case. I say "almost" only because I don't know the details of every case. I do know that several people who told me so, are quite incorrect - they simply don't see the whole picture, more specifically they don't get that what is promised may change for reasons quite outside the control of the Ops Director.

In my case, around 2003 I was as angry as hell at the way I had been "treated". However, as soon as I calmed down a bit, it was obvious that MW wasn't the problem, the problem is simply that our corner of the industry can be a difficult place. Commercial decisions are taken with as much consideration as possible for the crews, but in the end it is the health and success of the company that is important, for all our sakes (well, your sakes now!). Some people will always suffer as a result, but that is the nature of the airline business in the regional low-cost sector. If you don't like it, you are in the wrong industry (or the wrong part of the industry).

What I do know is that our Ops Director often argues long and loud for his crews. Few people ever see that, but it happens nevertheless - I have seen it happen myself.

So, you guys can bag him if you want, but I would bet large amounts of money that all of you doing so are folk who feel, or have felt, badly treated by him. Perhaps a little more introspection would be helpful.

In you case, Smokie, I know your record of "run-ins" and I am not surprised that you feel as you do. Just don't mistake it for a "universal truth", because my experience is definitely not the same as yours.

I can honestly say that working for flybe was a great experience. The flying was good fun, most of the people were great, and the atmosphere was relaxed and cordial. Obviously there are bad bits too (Crewing, one or two ex-managers, the disruption that comes with a complete change in the direction of the company), but overall it was fun.

You often don't realise how MUCH fun until you have left... :{

[Jetdriver]

"Why Mr moderator did you close the last one? Do you work for Flybe? Are you Mr Plank?"


Flying Fiona

I am not aware of the thread you refer to and I can't find it on this page. There is another flybe thread and that one is certainly open. However to answer your last two questions. I do not work for this company or actually know anybody in it. The last question obviously means something to you ?

The reason that threads are closed are numerous, but they normally involve a transgression of the site rules, or they have outlived any useful purpose. In threads of this nature the most common reason for closure ( and it actually doesn't happen very often) is because individuals have resorted to the use of real names that are not already in the wider public domain. Sometimes it is possible to edit offending posts to keep a thread on track, on other occaisions it is simply too time consuming.

I hope that addresses your concern and no doubt the points will be borne in mind by others contributing to this thread. ;)

[Agent Oringe]

Jetdriver

I think the topic that Flying Fiona is refering to was
"Flybe Op's Director Pushed" on this forum and over on R&N.
That topic has been closed.:confused:

[jonni]

Rawdata, thanks for the kind support for MW. You are right he does not deserve that sort of unreasonable and unjustyfiable treatment. Has this sudden flurry of support got anything to do with you trying to worm your way back into flybe?????
When I knew you, you had nothing but bad words to say about him.
Doesn't say much about your honesty and integrity does it?

[Raw Data]

Ha ha yeah right... :rolleyes:

Not trying to get back into flybe, I am however looking for a little short-term contract work for a few months, and flybe recently took on some contract guys, so naturally I asked. It was discussed a few months ago and nothing came of it, so I have nothing at all to gain by being "nice" now. In any case, nobody with any decent experience has to "worm" their way into flybe. you are a little short of experienced people, or hadn't you noticed?

As for your second point, let's just say that your recollection differs to mine. Try searching some old PPRuNe posts to see who I attacked or defended over the years. Maybe you are thinking of our ex-jet FM, he deserves all the bad words I can think of.

As to your last point, I, unlike you, am not anonymous - everybody knows who I am, so what I say is directly attributable. I would say that places my honesty and integrity several notches above yours... particularly as you appear to have registered today, presumably taking a new identity in order to take a prod at me. As very few people would know that I was in touch with flybe again, it is pretty easy to figure out who you are. And you were talking about honesty and integrity...??? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[jonni]

Only one thing to say RD, flybe don't want you because of your antics, there's not much hope for you in UK aviation.
Yes, Flybe do want quality, experienced pilots and are getting quite desperate for them, unfortunately your profile does not fit into the quality frame and Flybe is not yet that desperate that it will take anyone!
You know that you slagged off MW on many an occassion's whilst with flybe, its common knowledge so why deny it?
Unfortunately the truth finally catches up with you, what goes around comes around IN THE END.
If you can't get a job flying, I would suggest that you consider a career change.
Your journalistic ability is well renowned, may I suggest a job as a gossip columnist with say a quality newspaper like the DAILY SPORT or something of that level?

[Raw Data]

Funny how they offered me a permanent position then... :rolleyes:

You know NOTHING.

[HZ123]

Asside from this issue what is the situation with Southend. Some months ago it was muted that FlyBe would operate this winter from the old terminal. Any info ?

[Flying Fiona]

Its in one of this months Aviation mags that Flybe are looking into Southend along with a host of other possible bases.

More routes have been cut today because of underperformance. Who knows the company may look at Southend more closely.

More likely is a Manchester base. Excellent sales already following the launch of additional routes and no expansion planned for Liverpool . The company blames the handling agent but there are other reasons.

As for RD getting a job back at Flybe that has been firmly blocked at board level because of his outspoken veiws. Silly really to give up your identity.

Now get this piece of news..... Sickness has gone down by 25% since the Ops director got the chop!!! (05.10.05) Now tell me again this man was a motivating manager!

[Raw Data]

Yep I'm sure you're right FF, only right of them to punish me for supportng them!

Now off you go and pull another sickie... :}

Nothing like a little pond life to keep us entertained.

[NACUD]

FF,

I suggest you do your homework before writing scurrilous rumours.

MW remains the Flt Ops Director of Fly Be reporting to the CEO. All that has happened is that there has been a management reorganisation prior to the expected flotation of the Company on the stock market.

As far as impugning an individual’s integrity I suggest you take a long hard look in the mirror before you do so again. Any individual, such as you, who admits to taking a “sickie”, thereby, placing the burden on a colleague does not deserve to be part of our profession.

[vulcanite]

FF: Sickness down by 25%....Have you pitched up for work then??

[easyswimmer]

It's like a girls playground in here. when does hopscotch start?

[Raw Data]

After the pigtail-pulling!

[Flying Boat]

Gents,

I realise this is a little off subject but;
If so many pilots have left why is it so pigging difficult for me to get an interview to replace one of these departed crew members?

I have written at least 10 times to J S & D D.

What do I have to do to start experiencing some of your problems?

I hope you can offer some advice.

Thanks

FB:confused:

[Megaton]

Not short of pilots, A, it's sort of experienced pilots unfortunately.

[jonni]

RD and FF, you really do talk some rubbish.
RD, if the company offered you a full time job then why, when they are recruiting for both full time (on the Dash) and contract (on the 146) in large numbers did they not take you on as a contractor?? after all you are a 146 rated Captain!

FF, for your info the FOD is still there and will remain there for the forseeable future, so whats all this about him having left?
The thing about sickness is also crap, it is obvious to me that you used to work for flybe but have since left under some sort of cloud that has left you sad bitter and twisted!

[Flying Fiona]

"prior to the expected flotation of the Company on the stock market"


Who in the right mind would buy this company? With over 100 pilots having to be replaced in less than a year!

No Airline or Investment company is going to touch Flybe with an attrition rate that clearly dictates that the company is in a mess.

Pilots are leaving before they have even started. Two pilots have this week left after 3 weeks work. Now tell me this is a steady ship.

As for you wanabees keep sending in your CV. Each department is as bad as each other and HQ is down in sleepy Exeter so not much gets done fast. Flybe employs anybody. Heard today they are looking at monkeys. The ones without the red bum!

[jonni]

Well, its obvious they employed you FF at some stage. You were obviously treat badly . Did you leave or were you pushed due to some midemeanour?

[Raw Data]

Couple of silly things here.

jonni

There is no recruitment on the 146 for contract pilots. If you don't believe me, try calling around the contract companies and see if anyone is recruiting for flybe - nobody is. If you believe differently, by all means name the contract company being used.

I was offered a Q400 position as that is where the shortages are. However, I have no desire to get involved in bonds (at the moment), so I declined.

Flying Fiona

You know so little, it is almost comical.

If you really believe that investors place a lot of stock in pilot turnover, you don't know much about running a business either.

You are probably also not aware that many companies (in and out of aviation) are quite happy with high staff turnover. In many cases, it actually lowers costs - mainly the social costs involved in employing staff.

Pilots leaving "before they have started" says nothing at all about flybe, and quite a lot about the industry in general.

Now I imagine you will need to pull another sickie to think about all that. Guess somebody will be getting called off standby tommorrow...

[Chris Gains]

FF,
Why do you continue to claim that MW has gone when he hasn't?
Why do you claim that 2 pilots have left after just 3 weeks work when they haven't?
Why do you claim that the sickness rate (Which is not that high anyway) has gone down by 25% when it hasn't?
Why is it in previous posts you have claimed to have flown the 777 for several years and then later claim to have been offered a 777 job but turned it down?
I think I see you now for what you are.......Full of :mad: !!!!!

I shall now add you to my ignor list so I don't have to read any more of your drivel!!

[Smokie]

In fairness to RD, He was the FlyBe Moderator on the FlyBe Forum when it was up and running, so had no choice about his ID.
However, it works both ways though and he also Knew the ID's of those contributing to that forum. Mine included.

[ATIS]

Anyone know what routes have been chopped due to underperformance.

and where did these 2 pilots apparently leave to goto. If it was BA then you can't blame them. The massive increase in pay will easily compensate for the bond repayment

[jonni]

RD, Flybe have at present at least 5 contract/freelance pilots on the 146 including E C, who I am sure you will remember and C O who will be leaving shortly because he has a 737 job lined up.
I have it on good authority that their contracts, initially for 3 months have again been renewed for a further 3 months.
It is therefore not me that KNOWS NOTHING is it?

[Raw Data]

Jonni

You said

they are recruiting for both full time (on the Dash) and contract (on the 146) in large numbers

Please explain how 5 pilots having their temporary contracts renewed (even if that is true) is the same thing as "recruiting contract pilots in large numbers".

In fact, there is NO recruitment... having your contract renewed isn't recruitment.

So it turns out that not only do you know nothing, you don't understand the english language either - you clearly don't understand what "recruitment" is- and you can't tell the difference between zero and "large numbers".

Not working in Crewing are you...??? :p

Smokie

You are quite right, but that information is still confidential as far as I am concerned (unless an individual has made it obvious who they are, as some have).

[Jetdriver]

A few of you are still not getting it are you ?

The use of real names is not permitted unless those names are already in the wider public domain.

I am getting tired of editing. Consider this the last warning !

[jonni]

RD, you get the message now, flybe do not want you. That's the crux of the matter.
If you were a good pilot then you would have got/been offered a contract. The fact is you are not, so no job for you.
where I work and what I work at are irrelevant.
What is relevant is that i do know what I'm talking about!!! unlike some who choose to gossip on subjects they know little or NOTHING about over great distances!!!!

[Raw Data]

What a complete clown you are.

The only reason I didn't get a contract is that I asked two weeks after they took the present guys on. It makes no difference how good you are, timing is everything.

Once again... you know nothing.

I now realise that my comment linking you to Crewing was off the mark. You actually need some intelligence to work in Crewing, so that lets you out.

Just another sad little reggie-spotter then. That makes more sense... :rolleyes:

[jonni]

RD, you may or may not be right about the reggie spotter bit, but at least i've got a job in aviation!!!
You are obviously miffed about failing to get a contract with Flybe. From my and many others points of view that is a god send.
Thought about the alternative career suggestion yet?

[Raw Data]

A job in aviation - let me guess, you fill the coffee machine in EXT...

Just another wannabe-but-never-will-be...

To further aid your development in the areas of english comprehension and reasoning, let me ask you this. How does one fail to get a contract, when one has never applied in the first place?

I just emailed EXT on the off-chance, and got a reply saying "aarrgh why didn't you get in touch last week!?"

Now, please go on with your diatribe about how everybody in EXT hates me. This is getting quite amusing.

Of course if the rest of you are sick of the discussion... one shall withdraw!

[Big Tudor]

The rest of us are sick of the discussion! ;)

[er82]

Not me. I find it all highly amusing! Used to be me who got things going on Flybe threads. Alas, no more. But I never went as low as jonni and resorted to personal jibes. Far too mature for that kind of rubbish!

RD - keep going. I'm loving this!

[Raw Data]

Wilco!

Come on Jonni, is that the best you have?

:p :p :rolleyes:

[Whispermode]

What all aircrew at flybe (and on this forum) appear not to grasp is that with the reshuffle of the Board and MW no longer having a place but reporting to an engineer, flightdeck and cabin crew no longer have a voice at the highest level of management.

Now, some may think that is appropriate but I feel it is a sad reflection on an industry that is going fast down a particular road with commercial blinkers on. I know we are a commercial business but one can't run an airline without pilots or cabin crew and it was good to know in flybe that we used to have someone with our background on the Walker Board.

[Snigs]

I have to say whispermode, that that is a real issue.

My previous experience in industry (stress/design engineering) demonstrated to me that when the managers were beancounters rather than engineers then getting anything done properly became virtually impossible. Decisions were made on commercial grounds only and not technical grounds (or a mixture of the two). Lets hope that the incumbent decision makers at Flybe don't forget what it's like at the coal face!!

And please girls, stop bickering, it shaves points off your IQ's

[jonni]

RD, I'll give it a miss now. It's not really worth any further effort. Good luck with the job hunting, i think you are going to need it!!

[Raw Data]

Ha ha... no, not really, I have a job now and it pays a whole lot more than flybe...

Was thinking though... had a whole slew of PMs about what a **** you are... got me wondering... jonni... hmm sounds a lot like our ex jet FM...

Surely not! Surely...?:}

[jonni]

RD, Maybe your right or maybe your wrong, the thing is you will never know for sure!!!
One thing is certain and that is Flybe are a lot better off without you.
That's it from me on this subject, goodbye.

[Raw Data]

OK let's have a vote then... hands up all those who think flybe is better off without me. Just to make it interesting, hands up all those who think flybe is better off without "jonni".

And when you vote, just remember that I used to buy my crew coffee and donuts down-route! Especially when stuck in Bastia for four hours because Calvi was too windy.

Right - get voting!

[Megaton]

Without! I'll vote for that :)