Complex / Twin rating

[Grob Driver]

Hello All,

If I’m going to get myself a complex rating, and a twin rating, can I combine the two and do both at the same time, or do I have to get a complex in a single first?

Ta very much

GD

[D SQDRN 97th IOTC]

to fly "complex" airplanes does not require an additional rating - you just need differences training.

to fly multis however means you do need an MEP rating. Most twins are also complex, so you will probably find the MEP rating easier if you already have some complex hours - but no reason why the differences training and the MEP cannot be combined.

[nouseforaname]

Sounds like you are doing the FAA training. The complex is only a sign off in your log book which you will get from your instructor. Getting the multi without an instrument is pretty much a waste of time, you won't be able to rent a twin from anywhere unless you have instrument.

The multi test is good fun enjoy.

TD

[Chilli Monster]

Just in case nouse is wrong and you're not doing FAA but JAA then disregard his comments about renting. I rented a twin quite happily in the UK with an IMC rating, from the club where I did my rating.

But as others have said - yes, complex is just a sign of in your logbook, multi is a rating in its own right. I found no great problem moving straight from non-complex (PA28/C172) onto complex twins (PA34).

[englishal]

I'm guessing that if you do the ME first you should get an automatic signoff for the Complex. You won't gain much doing the Complex first I don't think......You'd be better off paying for a couple of extra hours in the twin.

[Whopity]

There is no such thing as a complex rating or sign-off under JAA.

Sign offs are required for:
VP Props
Retractable undercarriage
Turbo/Supercharger
Presurisation.

all seperate items.

In order to do the MEP Class rating test you must have 70hrs PIC in aeroplanes.

[Grob Driver]

Thank you for all your help. I didn’t realise that there was no ‘formal’ complex rating… I don’t know where I got that idea from! Anyway, you’ve been a big help to me so thanks.
GD
Ps – Not doing the FAA training… I just posted here armed with the wrong information!

[Flyin'Dutch']

Sign offs are required for:
VP Props
Retractable undercarriage
Turbo/Supercharger
Presurisation.


You forgot the most important one.

Tailwheel!

EA is right. If the aim is to go and fly twins forget about getting a complex/retract sign off in a single, do it in one go on the twin.

[High Wing Drifter]

From LASORS:

Differences Training requires both theoretical
knowledge instruction and training on an aeroplane or
appropriate training device.
Familiarisation Training merely requires the acquisition
of additional knowledge, relevant to the new type or
variant. This may be achieved with the assistance of an
instructor, another pilot experienced on type, or by
self-study. Familiarisation Training is only sufficient
where Differences Training is not required.

It should be noted that when changing to different
types, or variants of types, that fall within the single-pilot
single-engine piston (SEP) class rating, the Differences
Training is specifically required to encompass
particular ‘complex’ features with which the new type or
variant may be equipped.

These features are:-
Variable Pitch (VP) Propellers
Retractable Undercarriage
Turbo/Super-charged Engines
Cabin Pressurisation
Tail-Wheel

However, these same features are also required to be
the subject of Differences Training, when changing
between types or variants that fall within the
multi-engine piston (MEP) class rating or when
qualifying for new variants within the same single-pilot
type rating.

and

Many pilots with a MEP class or type rating may only
have had experience on SEP aeroplanes with Fixed
pitch propellers. Where a Constant Speed Unit (CSU)
is fitted to a ‘single’, some of the MEP training will be of
value, but comparison should be made of the effect of
the propeller, on performance and handling between
types and variants within the SEP class.
The handling of a non-feathering VP propeller, on a
SEP aeroplane, during an emergency, may also be
quite different from the technique used in a single pilot
ME aeroplane. For example, not all VP propellers in
SEP aeroplanes have counterweights in the hub, so the
failsafe propeller pitch may be either fine or course, and
the effect on glide performance, may vary considerably
from type to type.

Where Differences Training on a particular feature has
been completed within the MEP class, these
differences may be covered, for SEP aeroplanes, by
Familiarisation. It is recommended, however, that
some flying training be carried out on the SE type, to
demonstrate these differences.