May I be able to do this

[wannabe-aviator]

Hello Everyone

I am new to this forum, I was wondering if anyone can help me with my enquiries, I am currently doing a degree here in England, I would like to gain my PPL but not pay too much money, I would like to know if I am able to do all my 7 Ground school exams here in England and then go back to Brazil and do my practical training and get the 45 or so hours required to pass the Practical what lisence would I then end up with a JAA or a Bazilian Lisence, I am very much confused about this situation and nothing in the archieves answers my question I hope one of you can do it for me.

Many thanks
Wannabe-Aviator

[Droopystop]

I don't know the answer - I guess it will depend on the Brazillian system so the best thing would be to ask either the Brazillian CAA or flying school.

But if you are doing a degree, the ppl theory should present no problems for you and be able to do it alongside the flying training.

[vincent_watts]

Hi

To answer your question, you will not be able to do the theory here, and the flying in Brazil.

Refer to Lasors 2005 on the CAA website www.srg.caa.co.uk and read section C1. (PPL requirements).

What might be easier is to get a Brazilian PPL issued, come back to do the 7 JAR PPL exams, and a skills test to get a JAR PPL issued on the basis of you Brazilian ppl.

If you have any more questions feel free to ask me.

v

[Mike Cross]

Here's a direct link to LASORS (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS2005.PDF)

You can do the flying in Brazil and the theory in the UK, but you have to do it the other way round. You can do the training in Brazil, then come to the UK and do the exams. You then take your skills test in the UK and apply in the UK for a JAA license. You will need to do some flying in the UK.

Section C of Lasors states:-Any previous flying experience in single
engine-piston (Land) aeroplanes gained during an
incomplete course of training towards an ICAO
PPL(A) may be counted towards the requirements
for the grant of a JAR-FCL PPL(A). Applicants will
be required to obtain copies of their training
records from their training provider, together with
confirmation from them that the training completed
was towards the grant of an ICAO PPL(A).
Applicants will be required to attend a registered
facility or approved FTO and provide evidence of
their previous training to the Chief Flying
Instructor. The CFI will then establish a course of
training taking into account previous experience to
ensure that all the specific requirements of C1.2
have been met.
There's a bit more to it, so work your way through the document.

If you get an ICAO PPL while in Brazil you can get a JAA PPL on the back of it. You will still need to do a sklills test. The rules say you can't do the skills test until you've passed the theory exams so that means you will have to do the lot.

If you have less than 100 Hr as pilot (so it includes logged p/ut time) you also need to meet the experience requirements (but if you have an ICAO PPL you'll almost certainly do so).

The main difficulty you are likely to have with this approach is that you'll need some extra hours to cope with the transition to UK, which might wipe out any saving you made by doing the initial training in Brazil.

Mike

[IO540]

I know nothing about Brazil but the first thing I would do is check what privileges (and conversion/validation routes therefrom) an FAA PPL offers.

Nearly all of the aviation on Earth runs on FAA licenses and ratings, and most commercial pilots outside Europe have been trained in the USA (they have U.S. licenses and ratings).

One can even fly a G-reg plane, worldwide, on an FAA PPL.

[wannabe-aviator]

Many thanks for the Invaluable Advice I am ever so glad I was adviced to ask this here in this forum, I am looking at doing part of my Training in Brazil so as to bring cost down, Do you think if I do the theory here in the UK, Then because its Summer in Brazil I can go there in December and Do some practical training to gain maybe like 30 Hours on my Log Book, Then come back to London and Do the remaining 15 to 20 Hours it will take to do my practical exams and also my cross country and skills test, I am getting this Career Development Loan Thing to pay for my PPL and CPL Ground school I am looking at gaining my CPL/IR and then maybe work part time during my Years at University doing some instructing by gaining a CFI rating and then build hours and gain money and then do my ATPL theory later on I am more interested in a Aviation Management Job but i would like to have a CPL/IR and ATPL just in case, I am happy with the help and advice you have offered me and I am interested to know if I can do what I just said in term of the 30 hours in brazil and the 15 hour in the UK.

many thanks
wannabe

[Whopity]

Unfortunately the statement in LASORS has been misinterpreted. It is intended for people who have commenced a PPL in for example Cyprus, and then have been moved by their employer back to the UK, prohibiting them from completing it. It is not intended as a route of convenience; so if you do half the course in Brazil you will be told to go back and finish it as you live there.
Quite simply you need to do your licence in one country or the other, not half and half. As long as you have an ICAO licence you can then use it in the UK.

[IO540]

It is not intended as a route of convenience

How can they tell? Is a letter from the employer required?

[splatt]

Whopity, et al.

I had exactly the same query as wannabe-aviator when I first saw the section in LASORS that we are all referring to. I am currently part way through my PPL training and am trying desperately to build up some solo time (required by my school in order to move to the next stage of cross country nav). The weather however has other ideas and its costing me more as a result, I can't just stop and continue again when the weather improves everyone needs a bit of continuity at the beginning and therefore feel that I might benefit from visiting a place like South Africa in the meanwhile and getting some cheap experience and perhaps even a cheap conversion onto another type or two.

Cut a long story short, my instructor couldnt believe it when I pointed this paragraph out in LASORS. In 2004 the paragraph read that it had to be hours toward a JAR PPL whereas its now ICAO. We phoned the CAA Licensing Dept to check up on this and they confirmed that what I wanted to do is perfectly legal. So wannabe-aviator, don't hold me liable, but it seems the CAA would agree to what you want to do. Phone them and check if you like :)

splatt

[wannabe-aviator]

Hello Guys

I have not called the CAA and they told me only 10 Hours of Flying will count towards my JAA PPL, if am doing it at a non JAA certified school.
Meaning if I go to Brazil in December I will only be allowed to carry 10 hours towards my JAA Lisence which really doesnt Help me much as a JAA PPL in the UK is very good but expensive, I have a 8000 Pounds Budget and I am able to get a JAA PPL in Florida for 4000 Pounds but this will include everything I need and with a Total of 100H TT, leaving me with 4000 pounds, the Ground school for the CPL (A) is only 1300 Pounds and the actual CPL in Florida I can get for 2800 Pounds.
I am now looking at schedualling 10 hours in Brazil which I am not very excied about, so please wich me Luck and if you can advice me more then please do am ever so greatfull for all your kindess in trying to help me I appreciate people like you and am sure other Wannabes do as well.

Regards
W-A

[Mike Cross]

W-A

I think you will find you have been given out-of-date information.

In LASORS 2004 it said that only 10 hours of a non-JAA course could be counted.

This changed to the current wording in LASORS 2005

CAA do not set the requirements for a JAA PPL, they are set by JAA. You can see the full text of the relevant document (JAR-FCL 1) at http://www.jaa.nl/publications/jars/541268.pdf but it will be a very slow download as it is over 17Mb
JAR–FCL 1.050 Crediting of flight time and theoretical knowledge
(See Appendix 1 to JAR–FCL 1.050)
[(See JAR-FCL 1.490)] is the bit you need.

It includes
(a) Crediting of flight time
(1) Unless otherwise specified in JAR–FCL, flight time to be credited for a licence or rating shall have been flown in the same category of aircraft for which the licence or rating is sought.
(2) Pilot-in-command or under instruction
(i) An applicant for a licence or rating is credited in full with all solo, dual instruction or pilot-in-command flight time towards the total flight time required for the licence or rating.

I suggest you e-mail the CAA, quoting the wording in LASORS 2005 and ask them to confirm the answer in writing.