R/W 05 arrivals at EGLL

[OLNEY2d]

With the recentish demise of the r/w 23 approach option at LHR (I think that's a true statement) - Am keen to understand if anyone recalls the even rarer use of r/w 05? and it's last use?

I can recall a very blustery night in late Autumn circa 1985/6 it being used for landings - visual only of course. I can still remember a hoary old BA Tristar captain commenting to the tower that "he hadn't done that for blo*dy years"

cheers

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Yep - done it both as Tower and Radar controller. I recall urging a Trident to speed up in an attempt to race a heavy snow shower approaching from the north.. It arrived at the 05 threshold same time as the Trident, resulting in a go-around and diversion.

I can almost certainly find the date it closed, if nobody else comes up with the answer.. Anything else you want to know just shout...

[OLNEY2d]

Thanks very much for your reply - and always enjoy any story involving a Trident.

I remember the use of 05 being an odd sight from the ground - a/c in the sky where one simply wasn't used to seeing them ! - It was very infrequent if my memory serves me correctly, must have given the residents of Ashford a few head scratching moments !

[TheOddOne]

When we were trialling PAPIs as a replacement for VASIs in the early 1980s'they' put a set on 05, where they would get used about twice a year. I never could work that one out!

I once watched a Kuwait 747 DEPART from 05 - an absolutely howling NE gale. As HD says, it mostly seemed to be used when snow was around. SRAs to 2 miles - really low movement rate, but very handy for the Tridents & BD DC9s for the Bravo cul-de-sac and the pre-Eurolonge Deltas.

The Odd One

[Jordan D]

Sorry, SLF wandering into this forum - when did RW23 disappear from use? Apologies for being ignorant to these things ...

When 23/05 was in use, what was the max aircraft size on it?

Jordan

[Honey Monster]

This was a use of Runway 05 that I remember from my early days in ATC.

http://www.airdisaster.com/special/special-boac712.shtml

I think that the engine fell near Staines, not Hounslow as stated in the above article. It was a superb bit of flying - departing from 28L and a tear drop to land on 05, all in about 5 minutes.

I had recently moved from Heathrow to LATCC as an ATCA, prior to commencing my ATCO training.

Later, on completion of my training, I was posted to Farnborough where I saw the engine in the AIB hangar. It was only about 4 feet long.

Reg

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Jordan D - aircraft of any size could use 23 or 05, although often the heavies would opt for one of the other runways if the wind wasn't too strong. If the delays really built up ATC would withdraw the option to land on other than 23 so everyone would have to use it.

Now who is going to ask about 15/33? When I was a kid I loved it when 33L was in use for landing - right over my house at 1500 ft... Strats, Connies, Daks... Unfortunately those runways were long closed when I started work at Heathrow.

[OLNEY2d]

Jordan D


The 05 approach has been defunct since the late 80s I believe - or possibly early 90s, when they extended the parking area around T4 - Does anybody know exactly when?

As for 23, I think that was withdrawn this year(?) and now enjoys the somewhat demeaning title of 'Taxiway Alpha'
does anyone know if it definitely WFU? -


HD

As I recall the stop end markings for 33 L were still just about discernable until very recently.

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Yes I remember that stormy weekend
as I had gone camping near Ashford which from memorywas right under the approach to 05, it took four of us to put
a two man tent up and abandoned the second tent with the others sleeping in the car over night

G-I-B

[Jordan D]

Thanks HD & Olney2D ... never had the pleasure of a 23 landing, but my mother had one returning from SFO ... she was quite calm, her fellow passengers were less so.

What a shame its gone ....

Jordan

[shack]

As I remember 33L was still an active runway when I arrived in 64.

My best memory of 05R was being Tower Supervisor on the first day of the full use of Mediator when I decided that the wind justified the use of 05. Chaos ensued, not only down in APC but at West Drayton. I should perhaps explain that the Center radar controllers initially under the full Mediator were the old 'D' men and their radar expertise was sadly lacking, the proper radar controllers, ex Southern Center, had been made to return to the wing positions as 'A' men.

Your chances of doing 05 approachs as a radar controller at LHR were few and far between so the combination of the two was something to watch. Spacing on the approach, the later part of which was visual, was shall we say variable, the only problem for the Air Controller was whether he/she could get one,two or no departures away on 10R between two arrivals on 05. The finals call on 05 was "crossing the river"

Happy Days

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Shack.. And don't forget the westbound deps off 10R. I was training someone on south director when 05 was in use. Air man rang down for a westbound and the trainee gave the usual reply: "240". I watched with great interest as he suddenly twigged and the blood ran from his face...

[shack]

'B' as a u/t two things used to make the blood run from my face, one was a West Coast 707 off of 10R when I was Director and the other was a Spantax CV990 when I was u/t on Talkdown. How I used to dread my monitor asking "would you accept a talkdown for controller training" knowing that he would not do a thing he was told and all at about200kts.

[JustaFew]

Didn't someone inconveniently build T3 on 15/33?
There used to be an aerial photo of LHR in the 1st CTB showing the long-since disused 15/33s.

[pax britanica]

Well 05 was in use up to 1977 cos I landed on it returning from my honeymoon -into a ferocious sbowstorm. Trident 3 with a really strange approach sort of circling over the top of the airport and then heading back south.

I also watched the BOAC 707 approach in flames in the incident referred to earleir-made a big impression on a 15 yo to say the least .

As Heathrow Director said there were some interesting times if you lived near LHR back then with the big pistons belching flames from the radial exhausts on dusk or nightime departures -I lived almost under the old 23R /05l and had fantastic landing and TO views as a result
PB

[Wycombe]

Last time I remember seeing 05 in use was about mid'80s I think.

IIRC the approach lights were red when illuminated and ran across the southern airport road roughly by the junction at the eastern end of the cargo area.

[Lon More]

Honey Monster I remember the WE accident as well.
We were sat in the canteen at Drayton when we saw the smoke.
I remember somebody joking that somebody must have taxied a Comet into the hangar doors again

[Rudolph Hucker]

Hi folks

Runway 05 was last used in 1990.....maybe one day I'll extract something from the loft that will confirm the exact date, but take it as gospel as I was in the tower that day.

Manged to fly an approach to all runways one night on a BAA lighting check...anyone remember Pete Gallyer who used to drive the RC690 (G-BXYZ) then the Beech 300 (G-OBAA) on those? Boring after an hour, but a good 'tick' for flying down onto Rwy 05!

Cheers

RH

[southern duel]

Yep late 1990 early 1991 was the last 05 approach. Can't remember the exact date but I was the last Ops guy to carry out a runway inspection while 05 was in use. Interesting stuff because 05 was on 118.7 and 09R for departing was on 118.5.

Aircraft departing 09R were cleared to start rolling once they saw the aircraft approaching 05 were " over the fence"

Regarding the runway inspection we had to contend with 2 frequencies when we approached block 85 !!! Interesting stuff at the time.

We had to check the 05 approach lights every sunday night , The first sets just happened to be only visible from a pub car park !!! say no more.

Rudolph ive been up in the BAA King air as well. good fun although one of the ATCO's didnt think so at the time. bit toooo bumpy

how things change .

:ok:

[Man Flex]

So, with winter just around the corner...

Can someone please confirm that runway 23 at LHR is no longer available?

[southern duel]

correct

The paint markings are all being removed next week. Not that you guys need paint markings !!! A lot tend to ignore them


:O

[spekesoftly]

And you can read more about it HERE (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=194134).

[Gonzo]

Man Flex, correct. I'm sure the AIP entry was withdrawn. All of our ATC procedures for 23 were ditched from our manual a while ago.

[Rudolph Hucker]

Come on Southern Duel...who was the ATCO who had the unpleasant time? Discretion assured....yeah right!

Just checked my flying logbook (yes..I even log the pax rides); flew an approach to Rwy 05 on 31 July 1991 in G-OBAA.

The Heathrow ATC book by Messrs Piket and Bish (got your copy yet?) says that 05 was officially withdrawn 'in late 1993'. As with Rwy 23, the political aspects of withdrawing a runway in the SE of England at a time when HMG and the BAA is looking a expansion has kept these strips of concrete 'on the books' for much longer than their operational viability has truly allowed.


Cheers

RH

[southern duel]

3rd April 91 was my turn for the privelidge in G-OBAA

I think you will find 05 was officially withdrawn in 93 but the last time used was late 91.



;)

[TheOddOne]

I also had a go in 'XYZ on the lighting check - I sat right down the back and came out feeling seriously unwell - great flying but not so good as a pax!

I had a go in the right seat of G-OBAA during a light check of our runways at LGW, the a/c went at the same time Peter Galyer retired and we rely on a contractor, now.

Peter's still flying - at Shoreham.





Ref the BOAC 707
It was a superb bit of flying

Well, I'd not necessarily agree with that. My understanding is they failed to deal with the engine failure properly, causing the pylon to burn through and the engine to depart the a/c, leaving an uncontrollable fire in the wing.

'A superior pilot is one that uses his superior knowledge to avoid those situations that might require the use of his superior skill'

Ref 15R/33L, I was talking with the airfield electrical contractors around about the early 80's (who remembers Johnson & Pierce, their name lingered for years in the callsign 'JP1'?). They said they completely re-wired the side lights for this runway, finishigng just a month before the runway was permanently withdrawn for Pier 7 to be built on top of it! Typical forward thinkng!

The Odd One

[WHBM]

Regarding the BOAC 707 engine fire, a relative at the time lived in the caravan park at Mixnams Lane, on the north side of Chertsey (where the M25 is now), and said the engine fell into one of the gravel pits adjacent to there.

As a child stayed there once or twice around this time, the most spectacular overflight for noise was at about 2.00 am, woke us all up. Later research makes me think it was the Air France Breguet Deux-Ponts departing on a freight schedule to Paris.

[DuncanF]

I can't find it now but some time ago someone (HD?) posted a picture showing all the runways at Heathrow from days gone bye. More tarmac than you could shake a stick at. Does anyone have that picture or a link?

Thanks,

Duncan

[Talkdownman]

A 23 day tomorrow ':ugh:'

LONDON/HEATHROW EGLL 202230Z 210624 16012KT 9999 FEW025 SCT035 TEMPO 0611 7000 RA BKN012 PROB30 TEMPO 0811 19028G38KT 4000 +RA BKN018CB BECMG 0811 21015G27KT PROB30 TEMPO 1121 22022G37KT 7000 SHRA