Sun Express News [Archive] - Page 2

wingletflyer

13th Dec 2005, 18:10

Dear SunExpress pilots,

My partner and I flew to Bodrum this summer with SunExpress and we were quiet impressed with the quality of service onboard, cockpit announcements and the overall quality.

When I was reading the whole SunExpress story here in this forum and I was kind of surprised to find out that the grass was not so green on the other side.

I can't tell you which company I fly for, but I can only tell you that I fully understand your situation, your frustration and your worries

As long as you are not forced to leave your company, I guess you must stay, get together with all safety conscious pilots and get your " Old SunExpres" back!

If you would take my only single advice as an experienced pilot, spending many years in this aviation business:

Please do not expose or leak any sensitive internal safety issues to the outside communities via this forum or any other kind of tool no matter how true it is and how right you are!

This will not bring any good to any of you; just to the contrary will harm the name of your company on the long run and consequently your aviation future.

Safety is very delicate issue for any given airline and it's very hard to get it back or make it easily forgotten once the name appears on the black list.

I could not imagine whole SunExpress team (including the management and those mentioned pilots) are not safety conscious and they are not doing anything about it. I am also quiet aware of the differences between former military pilots and civilian pilots. I could also imagine someday those " badguys"; “ the 76 graduates” will leave or will be forced to leave the company, but if you keep damaging your GOOD image in the aviation community via this forum you and your colleagues will suffer much longer, even after those "badguys" no longer working in SunExpress.

I keep my fingers crossed for all of you and for all safety conscious pilots sharing the blue sky.

Happy landings

CÝVÝLÝAN737

13th Dec 2005, 20:24

dont worry winglet

market is open for every pilots.
we are not damaging anything.
sunexpress is damaging our reputation.

so dont worry!

despegue

14th Dec 2005, 12:24

tried to contact them via [email protected]

failed every time...

anyone has another e-mailadress to send my details to.
I'm experienced (1000h on type) and have been instructing on safety and emergency B737.

After reading all of this, it is clear that SunExpress needs professional people to enhance their overal performance.
Let's not slag things, improve things.

Brgds,

Despegue

Falcon737ng

14th Dec 2005, 13:24

yes my friends.that is true, cpt. Der.. ...iN was in Hamburg to select pilots. I know it is impossible ..i wont send him to Manav
(greengrocer )to select patatos but it is true!!

sun737pilot

14th Dec 2005, 14:55

Yes Falcon brother,

lets send Dom@z Der.a Sah.. to Manavgat to select Potatos

General P. you made a mistake, instead of selecting Potatos Der.a understand selecting Pilots, so he flew to Hamburg.

I would like to know what all the educated pschologist thougt when this clumsy idiot arrived at the DLR Institute.

Poor Sun Express.

MaxBlow

14th Dec 2005, 22:51

Hi Wingletflyer,

you sure sound like a XQ manager hiding behind a nickname. Or should I say future-ex-manager ?!

You're speaking wise words, telling the XQ guys to basicly shut up - not coming up with any solutions to their problems.

Maybe you should read the topic from the begining again to notice the high level of frustration since they simply have nobody to talk to. Safety is no accident...god didn't we all hear that a million times before?!
The main problem is management (as I understand) and the management pilots and their disability to communicate.

Everybody knows, but nobody's doing anything about it! Fact!
Their pilot assocciation is worth ****. Fact! Their caa somewhat doesn't give a damn at all. Fact!

It's easy for you to talk because you have a functioning, powerfull pilot union in Germany and conditions like XQ would simply not go unoticed...I fully understand their frustration. What are their chances?
Speak up and get fired the same second and jeopardise their career? Talk to the press? Or try and get some useful advise from a professional pilots bulletin board with several thousand members? I'd opt for the last option.

Eventhough I don't agree with some foul language used in here at times BUT they hit the nail on the head and crying for help.
Calling people names doesn't help, but again underlines how helpless they are.

TK couldn't care less because - as we all know XQ is producing outstanding numbers for years now and probably so does LH.

Journo's will sometimes brows this forum, but can't use any info without to name a certified source.

No offense - but rather than try and keep things quite you should talk to your friends at the airline you work for. Maybe they have some useful ideas...

Sorry, but can't tell you what airline I work for (I'm happy that it's not XQ though!).

Guys, I share your pain and cross my fingers for you!

Brgds from DXB:*

hiram

16th Dec 2005, 13:33

Deðerli SunExpress Cockpit ekibi
Bir arkadaþýmýn bilgi vermesi üzerine bu sayfalara baktým ve içim burkularak yazýlarý okudum. Ben Þirketin kuruluþunu yapan bir Türk Müd. olarak þirket hakkýndaki ingilizce yazýlarýn yabancýlar tarafýndan okunmasý ve etkileri nedeniyle sýkýntýlarýnýzýn ingilizce yazýlmamasýndan yanayým. Ele aldýðýnýz konular doðru olabilir ancak yapýcý olmak marifet, medeni cesareti olan kiþi yönetime þahsen müracaat edip doðru yollarý önerebilir. Ýngilizce yazdýðýnýz olumsuzluklar sonuçta SunExpress hakkýnda olumsuz düþüncelere ve zamanla basýna yansýmasýyla da þirket aleyhine ve dolayýsýyle sizlere yansýyabilir.Pazardan pay kapmaya çalýþan taþýyýcýlar acýmasýz rekabet içinde aleyhteki yazýlarýn etkisi ile aleyhinize olmazmý? Bindiðiniz dalýn kesilmesi olarak düþünülebilir.
Bana cevap yazma ihtiyacýný duyarsanýz lütfen Türkçe yazarmýsýnýz.
Sizlere huzurlu, kazasýz belasýz uçuþlar ve saðlýklý günler diliyor saygýlarýmý sunuyorum.
Levent Birgen

vickers23

16th Dec 2005, 16:25

[email protected] ?

could you please translate the above in understandable language?

Earl

16th Dec 2005, 18:06

Just translated some of it.
Someone told this manager or owner to look at the thread.
It appears that the managment does not want the employees to write bad things about the company on this web site.
As this is a highly competitive business and will damage the company.
He says if you have problems you should complain to him and if you write it here then it should be in Turkish so foreigners cannot read it to give the company a bad reputation.

Maybe someone else can correct me or add further.

Would have been more believable and sincere if he would have wrote this in English instead of trying to hide something
in Turkish.
Maybe he will make the needed changes, only you guys know this.
Good Luck.

Earl

16th Dec 2005, 19:20

Think your managment posted an answer
on another thread.
Maybe someone can do a better job at translating it than I did.

Listed as Comment for Sun Express Staff

Earl

wingletflyer

16th Dec 2005, 19:49

Dear MaxBlow

You're speaking wise words, telling the XQ guys to basically shut up - not coming up with any solutions to their problems

I didn't tell XQ guys to shut up! I just advised them not to use the safety issue on the international platforms as it might damage them on the long run. Hey Max read my previous posting once again before you blow! We both are standing on the same side when it comes to support XQ guys.

XQ guys generally describing organised mobbing and discrimination, which is not a strange word here in Europe for airline pilots? Read the story of Italian pilots, Crossair pilots and German pilots.

There are many ways to fight against mobbing, in this case against the "76 graduates". I don't know how much the "76 graduates“already occupied all key positions in the company. But it seems like they have some management and the training departments under their control.

It seems that, those concerned XQ guys trying to make a point on this platform, basically are not allowed to speak-up in the company, knowing nasty consequences especially from 76 groups. It seems like there is no open communication channels in the company. „Take it or leave it" seems to be the common answer by the management.( fully or partially)

Dear XQ guys, have you tried the following points?

1 - Make copy of this forum topic and put it every where in the company. In the ops, in the weather office, distribute it to every pilot mailbox to show that you don't agree with the situation and you decided to fight against it.
2 - Go to local and national newspapers. Bring the story to their attention without being personal or emotional but factual.
3 - Create an open letter with or without signature and send it to Lufthansa, Condor, and XQ top management including all big newspapers.
4 – Contact “German pilot union, “Vereinigungs Cockpit”, VR, and let them know about this unfair situation created by “graduates 76” Ask them how they can help you!

This would be the initial way fighting against 76, and bringing old SunExpress back on its feet again.

Good luck

vickers23

16th Dec 2005, 21:30

Now how in the h.... did the post of HIRAM got attached to this one?????
Must be the power of the moderator????

nevertheless.
Thanks for the translation Earl,
It looked very suspicious to me in the the first place too!!!!

Dear Hiram,
I understood from previous posts that there used to be a turkish forum, until you or the 76ers closed it down.
So dont blame anyone for writing in the english language here. And we all would appreciate it if you would do the same.

Another thing: humans have a mouth and a tongue and if anyone tries to shut them down, one should think twice on the motivation to do so. Or else be ready for the reactions.

Winglet,

Sorry dude, to me you dont come really sincere as well.

And guys what is the average flighttime you guys have by now
nobody has mentioned that lately???

wingletflyer

16th Dec 2005, 22:34

I understood from previous posts that there used to be a Turkish forum, until you or the 76ers closed it down.

Most of the 76ers, may be good military pilots but poor in English! , If I understood correctly? Do you suggest that pprune is open to any outsiders input to close a Forum? Especially by those who doesn't speak English (76ers) ??

Sorry dude, to me you dont come really sincere as well.

Vickers, I really don’t care what you think!. I don’t need to sound convincing nor sincere. This is not my fight! Here is my opinion and my suggestions based on my experience here in Europe.
Most of you very good in criticism but I really fail to see any suggestion to XQ guys.

I also got Hirams posting translated, thanks to some Turkish guys, and he's got a good point! .He seems to know the old SunExpress and he might help if any of XQ guys write him in Turkish. (or English) All he means: "Keep the safety business in the house and don't give any chance to any outsider to use it against you" Bingo. This is my point too.

Don't cut your own flesh (in Turkish don't cut your own branch that you are sitting on!)
Why not cutting the 76ers branch instead?? ;)

BTW, Vickers23, I will look forward to read your most sincere suggestions to XQ guys! ;)

vickers23

17th Dec 2005, 07:25

Winglet,

Either you think you are the smartest or you think the rest is just plain stupid and can not put 1 and 1 together ?!!!!
And I mean all who reads this thread.

Clearly you have given the answer to "a" question.

I rest my case.....

wingletflyer

17th Dec 2005, 08:26

Vickers, read the topic title! As a pilot you must know what RTFQ means!
This forum is not about you and me! Although you seem to have good points at the beginning of this topic, you should also respect other opinions and ideas in this forum, without being personal as a basic CRM! I guess you like to stir the s*** by arguing with the others and twisting the words in such forums for self credit!

You don't need to get personal with me or try to proof yourself above the others by challenging me! I could not imagine you would need this as a pilot!.

I will not answer you anymore unless you come up with some more positive ideas to support XQ guys, if you Really mean it.

PS/ Vickers, if you would know what company I work for here in Europe, (surely not XQ) you would immediately see my points! You would also see why I am so wise with mobbing, discrimination and frustration!, as a part of our daily life, but also why I am so cautious and reluctant giving my company name out in such forums.

Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar. Edward R. Murrow (1908 - 1965)

vickers23

17th Dec 2005, 09:15

Enlighten me on RTFQ ?

vickers23

17th Dec 2005, 10:30

Like I said,

Obvious .....

MaxBlow

17th Dec 2005, 13:52

Now that Hiram spoke up, management got the hint, it´s getting quite in here and I hope things start to move now at XQ. I think PPRUNE served the purpose!

Well done PPRUNE!!!
:ok:

wingletflyer

17th Dec 2005, 14:47

Vick, I am happy you got it that it's obvious I should ignore you unless you come up with something clever!
BTW, what is your drive or motive you are interested what's going on in XQ?
If you ask mine: My wife is Turkish and we fly Bodrum every year with XQ and I have some good friends flying in there! ( not from76ers) I would hate to see XQ is destroyed by 76ers!

As the title of this topic suggests, once again for (Vickers) ;), there are some positive movements on XQ side. Finally some people with good XQ spirit, started to pay attention what's going on in Antalya.

maxblow, of course PPrune served the purpose, but there might be others would take advantage of open said safety standards! I also guess Hiram has nothing to do with the present management! (Can someone elaborate on that from XQ?)

But for sure the bush telephone is very active and 76ers are getting nervous! Hopefully your new boss will have the situation under control over 76ers!

The real distinction is between those who adapt their purposes to reality and those who seek to mold reality in the light of their purposes. Henry Kissinger

vickers23

17th Dec 2005, 16:45

What happened to your friend " Teekayflight",with whom you are
" brainstorming " with?

just decided to withdraw the post I guess? Because it was so obvious !

Even for me to see through you guys " 76ers " , and I didn't need a lot of reply's. Hahaha

The ones who are out for the hunt got hunted. By VICKERs 23 times :E :E :E

wingletflyer

17th Dec 2005, 20:05

Vickers I don't know what you are talking about and most of all I don’t know what your problem is, but I start to think that you must have something in common with 76ers. On the other hand I really have my doubt if you are a pilot at all! If you are a pilot select your APA please to a lover altitude, as you seem to be too high and too fast.

You don't come with any good explanation, you can't stand someone else in this forum giving some thoughts from different point of view and mostly you love to stir the s***, trying to be the centre of attention as if this you have no idea what the topic is about!

I went thru your answers on this topic, and I found nothing than you are asking questions but no supporting constructive comments! Your attitude will not solve any problem of XQ guys, except adding useless pages on this topic.

I would like to hear form XQ guys if there is anything has already positively changed in XQ, hoping that XQ management have already realised they have a major problem at home, especially on the open and two ways communication culture.

I would also like to challenge anyone from 76ers to drop some lines in this forum, without being personal but factual. I am also aware that this forum is not a right place to solve XQ problem (as I previously defend), but it would be the beginning to start two ways communication with the hope finding something in common to start with.

Vickers, good luck with your hunt ;)

Xqdriver

17th Dec 2005, 22:02

I know it is very difficult but let's send the people who really destroyed our reputation to Izmir base! I mean some of 76'ers!!!

Why is that?

* First of all they destroyed our more then ten years reputaion in Europe,

* They flew illegally and tried to force everybody to hide this unsafe operation which allowed to carry more than 210 people in B737-800, and unfortunately mister general manager P.S wrote a letter that everybody can make a mistake so this should be forgiven and forgotten?!

* We had a lot of pilots with high school educated who were demotivated because of new upgrade policy which requires university degree. Actually this rule came on because of hateness of civilian pilots mostly sourced from Germany and Holland; but now they opened SXS to Lufthansa as a free fliying school with no charge! Well done mr. heineken, mushin, atasok and pig.

* There is no more open communication between pilots and management and/or first officers and captains. General manager gave his full support to management pilots and protected them, because they blocked all critics against to management and his position as well,

*Any voice was heard, the solution was going to HEARING COMMITTEE, this is unbelivable system regarding democratic life, so you may not shout or report anything which involves culture, safety and CRM. We had many examples that they shut the mouths of many pilots including very experienced, ex-management and well excepted pilots from majority of pilot group of SXS; with General Manager exceptance they had more power over to pilots,

* They tried to clean the company to kick some pilots who are civilian or not having same ideas even they are ex-military, so we lost 18 very experienced pilots in 18 months. can you believe this; we lost a pilot who was 26 years old and 5500 hours total but high school educated, this is ridiculous, they should pay the cost of tne new employed pilots who are just baby pilots with 250 hours from flight school only ( this doesn't mean I am against any pilot but you should think about the cost new educated ab-initio pilot compared with experienced one),

* We have a FODA system which allows us to maintain safe operation without checking individuals, but they wanted to use this system with help of safety manager who is just their pawn waiting their commands; in order to punished pilots or warned them,

* If you are warned two times you'll have no bonus; means you lost exactly one month salary next year, so you'll never talk and warn the cockpit management for any problems, like safety, company private problems and/or private ones, ( I can give you tens of examples that they shut our mouths or invited us to the hearing committee, then we had warnings at the end, what
happened at the end: no bonus or went to flights cautiously not to have another invitation to hearing committee,

* They replaced all Innsbruck pilots with the new ones who are from their group, INN operation needs a special care that never allows any mistake like this, that's why I don't plan to have any vacation via Innsbruck anymore,

* They cancelled instructor positions of three captains who trained nearly all xq pilots till 2000 (approximately 10 years which SunExpress had real reputation at that time) even unfortunately all 76'ers as well; everybody is sorry about this! :O

* We do not have any thrust to other pilot anymore in the cockpit,

* we do not talk in pilots meetings anymore; if you do so; either you'll have verbally warning from director of operations or chief pilot , or General manager will tell you that this untrue and unacceptable, reminds you that he has full support to cockpit management, then can you talk again, can you solve problems in-house in democratic way, can you disregard to have warning, having bonus every year or do you want to to be warned that your contract will not be extended,

* Mr. Hiram, Wingletflyer ; what do you think? This is stuation 76'ers and P.S. created, offcourse the structure from LH is well established and maintenance is still exceptable;but unfortunately there is no two way communication any areas of flight operation, no CRM between flight crew, nobody is following sop anymore, there is no motiation, nobody thinks about their future in sxs, the cockpit is not safe anymore as before 2000,

* As you know we open our pc and decide to write something to explain our observations; you should know that these are just a few topics I remember this night, you may not believe how this people destroyed our company and damaged our reputation,

* As we'll open new base in Izmir, we'll have additional three B757's and need a lot of pilots, we don't unfortunately have luxury to fire these 76'ers; let's send them initially to Izmir to calm down our main base to see what will be needed next.

* Let's put ex senior flight instructor Mr. D. Sxhxn and safety Manager Flight Director Mr. Kamxl Gxngxr into simulator; please switch off FD and Auto Pilot, then you'll see what I tried to explain you about the stuation of my old great company,

* General Manager P.S looked like a great man had success, the company had record profit last year but without family life ( in company as before), is he happy? I won't!

I am still optimistic, but without 76'ers.:ok

wingletflyer

17th Dec 2005, 23:11

Oh Boy!

Can't believe this is still happening in Europe!

XqDriver I have some questions:

- Do I understand correct that you don't put all 76ers in the same basket?

- Who would take the sim check of these two famous pilots apparently sitting in management chair?

- Who would take your sim check in case you would open your mouth and ask for fairness in case you wouldn’t care for the bonus anymore? (same guys?)

- Why your manager P.S. is so much helpless against the 76ers?

Although I liked Hiram's opinion not to discuss any safety items in here, but did any of you write him? Did he give any answer to any of you? So far Mr. Hiram is the only one who acted upon your postings in this forum. I bet (and I hope) this will create a big domino effect on XQ.

Mr. Hiram you could not believe what's happening in XQ in your Turkish writing! Are you really willing to take the control in your hand? Obviously you are disturbed that this story came so far in this forum, and it will make its way even to some European Newspapers!

Moving 76ers in to another base will not chance the situation too much for you unless XQ starts a real clean-up campaign with incompetent pilots and managers, introducing transparency, open communication and good will BEFORE IT’S TOO LATE!

Xqdriver

18th Dec 2005, 00:58

I knew you need more explanation:

* First of all; sim examiners must be from outside like LH,

* I should tell you wingletflyer that safety manager is not instructor/examiner, but the other guy is unfortunately examiner and just resigned from the position acting senior flight instructor and they can not fly manually , sorry to say so. I had no problem in my life about any checks, sim or flight but as you said i can not give my name here. It doesn`t matter if the examiners still continue to work here, but we are talking their damages to sxs.

*If i have power offcourse i`ll fire them immediately because of the results the company suffered till now.

* Did you know what happened a few months ago; when they forced many experienced pilots to leave and could not get enough pilots to fill the space, they put pressure on around 15 pilots to fly more than 300 in three months,

* Mngr P.S. cares only money and he likes to show the company had profit, he doesn`t care about safety, loosing experienced pilots and lack of crm; actually he doesn`t know well about flight operation, he is happy that fully management supported pilots (76`ers) created BEAUTIFUL COMPANY that nobody can talk, complain or report any unsafe events, except here (unfortunately)

* Mr. Hiram; you can not imagine how sxs changed from the old days you left till now; LH is not caring sxs flight ops anymore, they sent two people in six years; first one destroyed xq alot; had fish and raki every night, waited 1,5 year without doing anything, then he awaiked and started sim checks failed people, why he waited 1,5 year, he gave all responsibilities to turkish DO, then when next person came right after him, he had no power, actually last two guys came here just for fun spend their last few years in peace before their retirement.

* I hope the new ops mngr who seems to be young and willingly to work hard will change atmosphere quite a lot (hopefuly),

still optimistic :ok:

wingletflyer

18th Dec 2005, 10:30

Dear Xqdriver,

Thank you for more information.

Your optimism is highly remarkable! I am sure many of XQ colleagues of yours sharing this optimism with you and hoping the situation soon will change for the better.
But being just optimist alone won't solve this problem. (I don't mean to discourage you ;))

As far as I know, ( just guessing) in LH, the sim instructors must be in house instructors means usual line pilots with additional sim instructor function.

In fact this is the best way, as they know what daily flying life is about. Of course in your case this is not optimum, whilst the „mobbing" has priority over qualification and any other flying skills. What a shame!

Why not getting in direct contact with the new ops manager, who seems to be promising! Did you think about it?

I could imagine the 76ers will also try to have him under control, and if he is this kind of person the history will repeat itself.
Let's hope that he is not manipulable or biased and he's got a good pilot spirit.

I just hope he is already informed about this topic here, and he has all the information he needs to start!

2 or 3 pilots put all the facts together and ask for a special meeting in a natural place such a restaurant or hotel lobby but not in XQ. It's is very important that you don't get personal, don't use any names unless you are asked and don't be emotional (this is the most difficult one I know). Tell him what is going wrong in your opinion and tell him that you are concerned on behalf of all your colleagues and your company. Let the ball roll and wait and listen for couple of days.

You must take this risk! After all if he is biased and one sided, than anyway XQ is not a right place for YOU to work on the long run. Because you don't want to lose your self respect and dignity! Soon or later you will have to find something else using your valuable rating.
But at least you tried and you did not give up at the first place.

Go for it :ok:

Xqdriver

18th Dec 2005, 12:25

Good advise,

I have no objection!

I know we should do something,

Come on guys lets get together arrange private meeting with new DO,

In this case i offer FISH & WATER!?

Cheers :ok:

sun737pilot

18th Dec 2005, 12:29

The company is out of control.

Yes of course communication is the most important thing.

In sun talking and complaining is forbidden.

THe 76 guys thought that they can the flight ops department of an airline without any experience and competency.

They thought that just a.. lick@ng is enough, like they did before.

But now they recognized that these 2 above mentioned 76 charakters are not enough, maybe General P as well.

The other thing is that P.S is a very good s@les mngr but one of the worst GM`s you can imagine.

So if we want to get back on track we have to get rid of these 76 incompetent idio.s and send General P to FRA as a S@les guys.

Sun needs a GM with some Backbone to run this airline.

wingletflyer

18th Dec 2005, 12:52

Is he already in Antalya?

Just another thought:

As you may remember from your childhood, we used to complain to our parents only when we were guilty ;) Unfortunately this effect is still valid on our grown up lives. When somebody complains to us, we immediately start to think that person has something to hide.

Don't get me wrong, you had no other choice but complaining here in this forum, but probably P.S and the others were not thinking same way. Most likely 76ers had nothing to complain. –apparently- It could be that you were not taken quiet serious!

In this case, when you meet the new DO, the basic of conversation should not be purely complain about the individuals and the 76ers, but mostly your general safety concerns including SOP, CRM and open communication and accident incident reporting culture.

You may challenge him even to consider reassessing every single pilot by independent source ( e.g LH or DLR) for the sake of the safety. You can tell him later that you are concerned about some rotten eggs spoiling the whole basket! Tell him that you are as concerned pilot anytime ready to take any sim reassessment by independent sim instructors if necessary as you have nothing to hide!

If he is smart enough, he would not start his new DO job on the shallow waters and investigate the whole story.

Depends on your success, you can always offer him Fish and Raki :D

Dear sun737pilot, it\'s nice to hear you as the initiator of this topic.

I can imagine that you concerned XQ guys are quiet competent and skilful.

If you could manage the new DO to introduce a kind of re assessment to all existing XQ pilots, you might easily get rid of them, provided that it\'s done by independent institution such as LH.

You have to convince him to introduce non-penal and anonymous accident & incident reporting system to boost the safety standards. This is standard practice in any European airline and it really helps a lot to learn from others mistake!

If you wish I can send you some more info on this topic.

Good luck.

sun737pilot

18th Dec 2005, 14:04

Hi wingletflyer,

thanks fot the great posts.

Of course we will try to explain him the situation here in sun without going too mcuh into detail.

Its not to blame anybody in this company, our aim is to work in a safe environment.

Most of the managers use Sun Ex as a stepping stone for a better career back in Lutfansa.

Only Capt Ha.. was smart enough to run the show. But it was clear for him to stay away from the 76 guys.

Our last 2 german LH guys were holiday managers, enjoying the sun and raki. No inputs at all.

General P. doesnt want anybody interfering in his family business.

I dont know the new guy. the future will tell us.

But if he has some backbone and honour he has to change things dramatically. Otherwise the second acc is around the corner.

wingletflyer

19th Dec 2005, 09:58

Sun737pilot,

Did you get my PM?

foreverboeing

19th Dec 2005, 19:39

Hi Xqdriver,It was the best post for the last 1 month which explains all the s..t happens in our company!If someone missed the begining of this subject just check out this post.It shows the visible part of the the iceberg!Good job xqdriver.

MaxBlow

20th Dec 2005, 14:31

(As you may remember from your childhood, we used to complain to our parents only when we were guilty Unfortunately this effect is still valid on our grown up lives. When somebody complains to us, we immediately start to think that person has something to hide.)

If this effect is still valid for you dear Winglet - I'm so happy that I don't have to fly with you !!! It is sure valid for the 76'ers...

Damn, thought you got it right but than you come up with a comment like that.

Well, I know when I screw up and don't blame others for it!

This is essential to become an airline pilot, just think about the
CRM value.

What can I say? I strongly believe that you've been a manager at XQ (maybe you still are), you figured out what kind of damage the 76ers did (and still do) and you haven't done anything about it (during your time as manager or still don't do anything as a manager).

Now you're using this board to cover up your f***ups and pretend to be the helpfull Agbi...I don't buy it! Whatever, you at least got the picture by now.

I rest my case
:cool:

vickers23

20th Dec 2005, 16:20

I think he is a low houred pilot in need ......

And desperately in need for a job.

wingletflyer

20th Dec 2005, 17:25

Everyone is entitled to be unintelligent, but some abuse the privilege. Albert Einstein

No other comments for vick and max ;)

sun737pilot

21st Dec 2005, 12:29

Mr. General P pls do yourself and us ( SUN EXPRESS) a favour and give up.

YOU ARE DEFINETELY NOT COMPETENT ENOUGH TO RUN THIS AIRLINE.

AS WE OFFERED YOU BEFORE TAKE THE CHANCE AND GO BACK TO GERMANY AS A S@LES M@anager. You can sell sell sell very good and buy you are not a good LEADER.

YOU FAILED.

YOU ARE THE MAIN REASON THAT THIS COMPANY IS RUINED.

THE 76 GUYS ARE JUST A BUNCH OF NOBODYS AND WOULD BE MANAGERS AND PILOTS. BUT YOU GAVE THEM THE POWER.

MaxBlow

21st Dec 2005, 20:16

You keep quoting some wise men in here...you can't be that smart yourself otherwise you'd come up with some words of your own. :}

Other than that:

Mutlu Yillar Arkadaslar! (Happy New Year!) - I strongly believe you'll see major changes rather soon!

:ok:

turkishbaba

22nd Dec 2005, 01:36

Out of 80 pilots almost 75 signed a letter for GM P.S about our dissatisfaction. Only a few most of them our 76 group friends didnt.

And guess our GM didnt accept the letter, he still thinks that he and his failed Pilot Manager group is doing a good job.

Mr. GM P.S is not accepting his and his pilot managers mistakes.

This is poor managment.

On the surface our company looks very shiny but inside it is so rotten.

tellyturkay

22nd Dec 2005, 12:37

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH SUN 737.

MR. GENERAL P. SHOULD RESIGN AND TAKE ALL THE 76 RUBBISH WITH YOU.

ONLY WHEN SUN EXPRESS IS CLEAN FROM THE BAD GUYS WE CAN START A NEW BEGINNING WITH NEW DIRECTORS AND MANAGERS.

OTHERWISE THE SAME STORY WILL START AGAIN.

WHAT IS THE NEW GUY DOING? NOTHING
WHAT IS CAPT Beckfri... doing? Nothing

THIS WILL BE AGAIN A BAD NEW YEAR.

NO HOPE.........................................??????????????? ???????????

Boeingrestricted

22nd Dec 2005, 19:20

A newsletter from combined HR/General manager/ Training department was issued:

"In order to assure the highest levels of quality and productivity from employees, as of today it will be our policy to keep all employees well trained. Through our newly implemented program of "Special High Intensity Training " ( as of now referred to as S.H.I.T.).

Like during the past 3 years our aim is to give our employees more S.H.I.T. than anyone else. If you feel that you do not receive
your share of S.H.I.T. on the job please see your manager/postholder. You will immediately be placed at the top of the S.H.I.T. list and our trained and qualified managers are especially skilled at seeing that you get all the S.H.I.T. you can handle.

Employees who on the other hand don't take their S.H.I.T. will be
placed on our specially designed programme,
'Departmental Employee Evaluation Programs' combined with S.H.I.T. (D.E.E.P.S.H.I.T.).

Since our managers took S.H.I.T. before they were promoted, they don't have to do S.H.I.T. anymore and are full of S.H.I.T. already.
If you are full of S.H.I.T. you may well be interested in a job training others. We can add your name to our
"Basic Understanding Lecture List" ( B.U.L.L.S.H.I.T.)

Those, who are full of B.U.L.L.S.H.I.T will get the S.H.I.T. jobs and
can expect promotion at the earliest. Since they are eligable to apply for "Director Intensity Programming " ( D.I.P.S.H.I.T.)

If you have further questions, please direct them to our "Head Of Training" (H.O.T.S.H.I.T.).

With thanks to," Boss In General " (B.I.G.S.H.I.T.) "

Again, Happy new year to all ( incl. P.General and 76ers)

sun737pilot

23rd Dec 2005, 05:31

GOOD MORNING CAPTAIN BOEINGRESTRICTED

JUST TO CLARIFY

IS BIGSH@T OUR BELOVED GENERAL P. THE BIGGEST SH@T IN ANTALYA.

HAPPY NEW YEAR MY DEAR GENERAL P

dakotakally

23rd Dec 2005, 12:24

THE BIGGEST CHRISTMAS AND NEW YEAR PRESENT FOR US WOULD BE THE RESIGNATION OF MR. GENERAL P.S AND HIS GROUP.

HERGÜN DUVA EDIYORUM

sun737pilot

26th Dec 2005, 06:12

WHO IS VIOLATING THE FLIGHT TIME LIMITATIONS AND WHO NOT?

GUESS

WhisperNG

26th Dec 2005, 07:49

Hi everybody,
Let's just don't start blaming the new DO before we give him some time to understand what was going on until he came.And we (who really love and care about the company) must support him in a positive and affective manner.And this must be done FAST.
Wish u all the best in new year :)

sun737pilot

26th Dec 2005, 08:49

YOU ARE RIGHT WE HAVE TO GIVE HIM SOME TIME BUT TO BE HONEST. I DONT BELIEVE THAT HE`S GONNA DO BIG CHANGES.

TO BRING SUN BACK TO TRACK YOU HAVE TO FIRE THE GENERAL AND HIS 76 A..LICKER.

AND THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO EVERYBODY.

ALLAH GÜNEªI KORUSUN

devilsadvokat

27th Dec 2005, 08:59

I was just checking the webpage concerning first officer positions.

One of the requirements is good knowledge of english, like blacksmoke, flightdirector and all the other super heroes.

I am still laughing.

Özcan

27th Dec 2005, 11:10

"En az 2 yýllýk YÖK onaylý bir yüksek okuldan mezun olmak"

why would it make someone better suitable as a pilot? or is this just because they want more people from the military?

i don't see how reading 2 years of economics, publishing, art etc, etc would make such a difference that you would actually implement it as a requirement for applicants to fulfil :confused: :confused:

tellyturkay

27th Dec 2005, 16:10

20 intercockpit pilots recruited, none with turkish citizenship, none with completed military service, none with university,
sun needs pilots, we are absoultely short right now, 76 group fu..ed up with their new policies and general p jusr followed them blind, this idi..t.

right now beckfri... and co is trying to clean all this ****.

Doublestandarts in every department.

PICUS Turkish

27th Dec 2005, 22:20

Selam TellyTurkay,

you have written: "20 intercockpit pilots recruited, none with turkish citizenship, none with completed military service, none with university,
sun needs pilots, we are absoultely short right now, 76 group fu..ed up with their new policies and general p jusr followed them blind, this idi..t."

Are you really sure? I'm turkish citizen who lives in Germany. I have also applied and SunEx said to me: "You need a university diploma." I have another friend in Ankara who has an university diploma from the USA. He was in the interview in Antalya and in Hamburg for the DLR test. He failed and now he is unemployment.

So what is the reason why XQ recruits just foreign pilots? What goes through a mans mind to do such this?

There are some turkish citizens in Europe who want to work for SunExpress, but Sun just has no interest for those people. Why?

You can also write in turkish, 'cause this subject is more for turkish citizens important.

PICUS

sun737pilot

28th Dec 2005, 11:21

I cannot tell you about the engineering but for cockpit:

its done by suun express, responsible for the last selection was watermelon selector Mr. Piggy Dery.a Sah... One of the bigest ass.... in suuun. Failed his initial DLR, initila FO and nearly his upgrade.

But good enough for mr general P.

I hope that Mr. Beckfr... and the new guy from Lutfansa will clean flight ops.

dakotakally

28th Dec 2005, 16:06

HI GENTS,

I WIH ALL THE 76 MUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHH `S A HAPPY NEW YEAR AND FRESH GRASS FOR THE WHOLE SEASON.

: - )

turkishbaba

29th Dec 2005, 03:48

And also happy new year for the greatest general on earth

Mr. GM P.S

foreverboeing

30th Dec 2005, 18:10

Hi guys,
I gues nothing is gonna change with sun ex,but we will give a chance to new DO for the coming year.Maybe he will be our santa!
Happy new year and all the best for 2006!
Allah bizi 2006 da 76 mafyasindan korusuuuuun....

devilsadvokat

31st Dec 2005, 04:22

Hi Guys,

what I understand from this advert is that a german company is recruiting piots for Sun Express.

Looks like Capt Beck.... and Capt St@rck started cleaning the **** of GM Paul and 76 gang.

So you guys should really give them a chance to reorganize the company.

Happy new year and safe flights

wingletflyer

31st Dec 2005, 11:13

I fully agree with “devisladvocate”

If SunExpress in cleaning process and searching and hiring new F/O s and captains with LH quality standards, you guys can only benefit out of it!

76ers and their allies wouldn’t dare to mess with these guys as they did with you. This doesn’t mean new hired CDR’s are any better than any of you but just because they belong to another culture. Any pilot meeting these requirements as published by “Lightson” would not let any 76er to go further as they did with you. Finally there will be new filtering devices such as LH standards, DLR and good qualifications enabling SunExpress to reach its good old standards. This will take care 76ers itself for your own benefit.

“Lightson” actually you describe another problem (or reality) which I can only agree with you! All other Turkish companies are suffering from the same problem too and it’s really hard to get rid of it!

Good luck and I wish you all a Happy New Year.

turkishbaba

1st Jan 2006, 08:47

Happy new year guys.

I woke up this morning and I told myself, come on do something good on the first day of this year.

And I decided to search for a new Job for our beloved GM P.S.

So pls lets find another company which is ready to be ruined.

This is one of his greatest strenght.

Biddings from all over the world accepted

sun737pilot

6th Jan 2006, 04:58

Hi Brothers,

we are just trying to give Capt. St..., the new DO, a chance to reorganize and clean up the rotten Flight Ops Department.

I think General P`s Lahmacun Era is coming to an end.

Xqdriver

18th Jan 2006, 17:37

Is there anybody realized any improvement till now?
What are the positive steps new DO did take already?
Any news, who will be the new TRI`s,TRE`s for B757`s, again 76ers?
I heard one of the pilots from 76`ers complained and kindly(?!) warned new DO not to change upgrade policy concerning university requirement which effects 4-5 upgrades who are waiting for years. :yuk:

Happy Landings

xqdriver

WhisperNG

19th Jan 2006, 08:55

Who is this 76 son of a b...???:mad:
I feel some improvements and more positive athmosphere in the company,as I've heard salary procedure is also changing for the new pilots,nobody will get funny salaries when they are hired,and this new upgrade procedure makes more sense.Thanks Mr S.
But still we have a looong way to go,let's just don't sit and watch everything like a movie,we MUST support the ones who are trying to do something good.
Also I've heard some of the 76'ers are constantly going to Mr S.. room,and God knows what they are up to now,I bet nothing good for us or the company...

Mr S.. if u read these,please keep in mind: these guys speak friendly and logic,they are professionals,they watch u close and seek for weaknesses!!! And when they believe the time comes,they attack together.U are free to ask Cpt Florian Hamm, Cpt Lange, Cpt Seckin Bayhan and Cpt Fikret Gedik.Please IMMEDIATELY take all their remaining authority as u have a chance now...we don't need such instructors,these are the people who carried SunExpress into this nightmare and lost 18 pilots so far.Good luck!

sun737pilot

23rd Jan 2006, 01:05

Mr General P.S

This is ur last chance to clean all the **** u and all these 76 O children did to the company the last 3 years.

If u fail now we will take control.

We promise u. And than u will be out.

sun737pilot

24th Jan 2006, 14:06

I still believe that the new DO Capt.St... will handle the situation. The 76 a..holes should stay well below the line.

And you General P. YOU F::::D UP THE GREAT COMPANY,

WE WANT YOUR RESIGNATION:

BROTHERS WHO ELSE WANTS GENERAL P RESIGNATION?

WhisperNG

27th Jan 2006, 18:59

OMann
I suggest u to speak with new DO in person and explain yourself and your situation,he seems to be a quite reasonable guy.Also this time u have a chance to speak with fluent German,as u told us before u have problem with Türkçe ;)

For the other topic; yes I want P.S to resign,but I believe even our friends don't read these anymore.

WhisperNG

27th Jan 2006, 19:12

Guys,
we really need to do something about the salary subject.It seems that nobody cares about it by the Senior Management (hey may be that's why they are managers and we are not ;) ) Anyway,I personally can say that my salary was higher in recent years,not only the power of buying but even the amount.This is stupid when there is an inflation of 20%. The Euro rate is not expected to be changed for the next 5 years.Which means we are economically f.cked up.
If we were taking our salary by TL they had to adjust for the inflation every 6 months ( and please somebody explain me why the hell our salaries are calculated from Euro )
3 years ago our salaries were more or less equal with THY,do u know how much a THY Cpt gets every month? ask :)
Wake up guys we are being cheated on this too for all this time by the 76'ers.

WhisperNG

30th Jan 2006, 18:58

Good question,hey may be I will leave soon ;)

wingletflyer

10th Feb 2006, 16:56

It's nice to hear that things will hopefully change positively in Sun Express with the new DO.
But also hear the salary issue is still hanging and pending!

Sun Express is - almost - the only company still keeping the lowest pay in this sector. And the question is: For how long?
If you stop for a moment to compare your salary to Turkish Airlines - I would not compare at all as they are the flag carriers with completely different structure - Sun Express' salary and benefits are still below Atlas Jet, Pegasus, Sky and Onur salary and benefits.

The new season soon will start in Turkey with 40 to 50 open pilot positions. The interline transfers soon will start - regardless the gentleman's agreements among some carriers - and the top pay will prevail!

If Sun Express would like to keep the Know how and the Experience in the company they will be forced to pay more or at least equally to others or the market will force this salary issue to take care itself.

Here in Europe this saying is still valid: Money can't buy the safety and quality, but helps to keep it!

Good luck all.

sun737pilot

10th Feb 2006, 19:11

THERE IS NO SAFETY AT SUN

wingletflyer

11th Feb 2006, 12:16

Dear Sun737pilot,
we are just trying to give Capt. St..., the new DO, a chance to reorganize and clean up the rotten Flight Ops Department.

Did you or anybody else talk to the new DO about it?
Is he aware about this Forum and any positive or negative feedback on that?
Did the new DO define what is rotten and what is not in Sun?

All I heard that he is not manipulable and willing to get the job done! In this case some rotten eggs - if already been spotted in Sun - will not survive for too long and all will be sorted out.

I understand your feelings when it comes to the safety issue. Because, there is nothing left to bang on - in this case safety - once all available options in the hand have been exhausted and your voice is still not heard on the management floor!

Happy and safe landings!

GoldenFalcon

25th Feb 2006, 09:11

Hi Guys,
Whats going on Sunex.?
What is new.?
I heard 76 resighned from their key positions and even from instr. positions. But even this is not enough for them. They have to resighn comletely from Sunex. Airline like a Sun is to much for them. They belongs to other cheap airlines, where safety is end of the pipe.
I guess , pprune was succesfull enough and achieve the aim.
Good job guys, continnue....:ok:

sun737pilot

25th Feb 2006, 10:58

Well well well,

most of the 76 a..lickers and loosers are on the B 757( very scary for the paasengers, luckily they dont know who is siiting in front). Piggy D..ya and Flightdirector are still on B 738( very scary and safe as well).

Major offender of this sh.t is still on Board. Again good job Mr General.

Capt. T.... is Trainingsmanager. Very competent and relaxed guy.

Its calm before the storm.

Iyi ucuslar guslar

wingletflyer

15th Apr 2006, 08:27

This information has nothing to do with the title of this Forum, however Salary talks in the cockpit may lead into serious situations!
Couple days ago Turkish Airlines Transfered another 60 pilots from Onur, Atlasjet and Pegasus. ( But not from Sunexpress!)
Those of you speaking Turkish, please check this link: http://www.gokyuzuhaberci.com
and scroll down to read about THY transferring 60 pilots.
This situation brings another swing into cockpit/pilot market in Turkey and urges the companies to increase the pilot salaries substantially in order to remain attractive and not to loose any more pilots to Turkish Airlines.
If you remember my latest posting regarding Sunexpress salary; I had asked: for how long SunExpress would keep their low salary standarts and contractual conditions comparing to other carriers as already SunEx was the lowest in the market.
Now, the market is sorting itself out, and SunExpress soon or later will need to increase the salary in order not to loose any pilot to Atlas, Onur or Pegasus as they already increased their salary to remain attractive and to stop the pilot transfer at the just beginning of the season.
Nevertheless, Atlas, Onur and Pegasus still need pilots and two question remain open and need to be answered urgently:

What SunExpress has to do to keep you DLR qualified,underpaid pilots in the house?
What SunExpress has to do to stop transfer and salary talks in the cockpit?
Happy landings

sun737pilot

15th Apr 2006, 11:44

THERE IS ONLY ONE THING TO DO:

SUN EXPRESS HAS TO GET RID OFF THE WORST GM IN TURKEY!

SUN EXPRESS NEED A MANAGER WHO TREATS HIS PILOTS WITH RESPECT!

MORE AND MORE PILOTS ARE RESIGNING.

THANK YOU

wingletflyer

15th Apr 2006, 13:16

SUN EXPRESS NEED A MANAGER WHO TREATS HIS PILOTS WITH RESPECT!
MORE AND MORE PILOTS ARE RESIGNING.
THANK YOU
Is that true that 3 new hired pilots left SunExpress during the CBT training due to poor salary & contractual conditions?

sun737pilot

15th Apr 2006, 14:36

Yes its true, plus 1 resigned recently( very senior one). The rest of the new hired ex military kamikaze pilots are below average and dangerous.

Well done General P.

MaxBlow

15th Apr 2006, 16:14

Regardless the safety topic here I like to mention that SunExpress was the best paying charter airline in Turkey for many years.
Remember that you always had 13 salaries, insurances, VACATION (!!!) and the luxury of ID tickets with TK and/or LH.
You've also been employed for the whole year whereas other companies laid of their guys during the slow winter season.

Now that people run away from all these cheap charly charter companies to THY (to get similar conditions and a life) companies will have to increase their pay to prevent losing their pilots (doesn't help much though).
XQ is tied up with THY so it's the most normal thing that they will not steal guys from you.

Best of luck to all of you - but stay real!

wingletflyer

15th Apr 2006, 18:43

Well said MaxBlow.
I also thought if all the other charter companies would be able to afford this high salary structure throughout the year especially when the season slows down. This would be the only remaining argument of SunExpress to justify their below standard salary structure and other benefits! However it seems the Turkish domestic market is growing in a tough competition and this will compensate the low season if ever will be.

It is not like used to be, high salary during summer season and no salary in the wintertime. Turkey is reopening all domestic airports, which they were building during election times to attract voters and never used since then!

Easy jet is soon flying to „Sabiha Gökcen Airport" with the thought to share a slice of Turkish domestic market!

Nevertheless, I still believe that you SunExpres pilots, seat on the long side of the stick without even realizing! All you need to do to follow the transfer trend and produce more than 20 to 30 resignations. You do not even need to bluff as you have the transfer season (but not too long!) and all other companies (Except THY) would welcome you with better salary and benefits, if SunExpress would not change the “things” overnight!
This action even might help your voice to be heard and make some substantial changes on your career.

I guess it’s about the time for you guys to make the things happen instead of waiting the things happen!

Good luck

Dear Sun737pilot. Can you give some detailed information about SunExpress by following this link? Many pilots wishing to join SunExpress might be interested to share your honest inputs. Thank you.
http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/operatorlist.php?reg=Europe

GonzalesXQ

25th Apr 2006, 20:36

jo folks,
some of the statements are very interessting but some are also bullsh..! İ do not know where some of you are coming from but... sun is a great company and it is not the management who is running this company. İt is the way people are working together and from my point of view... the others can learn a lot! When İ was reading some of the messages İ really thought that someone is very frustrated about his life!!! Do you really know what you are talking about??? Ever went to Mr. S and told him your fears? Shure not! İ am flying with those military guys and İ have to say that İ heard a lot bevore joining here but nearly everything what experts like you told me was sh.t! They are professional and honest! Sometimes more than a civil one can be!

civilian777

22nd May 2006, 10:25

Hey a.. lic..r speedy gonz,
First tell me who you are.
i worked there several years and i know them very well.
By flying for a short time you can not have an idea for the management or the skills of the ex.mil. pilots.
But i guess who you are.
Useless german pilot who is not qualified to fly in germany anymore or a ex.mil. pilot who is trying to defend ex.mil. colleagues.
Dont forget SUNEX is not a german or military company and one day we will take it back.i want to see your face at that day.

sun737pilot

23rd May 2006, 12:11

Sun lost so many pilots because of the a..li...g useless miltary kamikaze pilots and the full support of Mr. General S.

Right now they are so desperate that they are looking for MNG Captains. Can u believe this.

They forced all the good guys to leave and now they are hiring MNG Pilots.

GONZALES MY FRIEND. YOU LEARNED VERY QUICK THAT THE EASIEST WAY FOR SUCCESS IS ........... GOOD LUCK.

fractional

23rd May 2006, 14:58

OMann is addressing his/her following. It would be nice to understand what you are writing or are you passing a PM to someone?

Özcan

23rd May 2006, 21:31

selamlar omann!, THY'ye is basvuru gönderdiniz mi?

Özcan

24th May 2006, 15:26

Merhaba Omann, fATPL-belgesine(IR,ME,MCC eksik) gelmedigim daha isvec harp hava okuluna simdilik girmegye calisiyorum onun icin is-aramak tecrubem yok simdilik :E ama ben 2 tane "düsük-saatli" pilotlar biliyorum is buldular THY'de. Ben saniyorumki Türkieyede hâlâ bu internet isi iyice bilmiyorlar:} , bence siz ziyaret ederseniz sanslar da iyi.

PICUS Turkish

25th May 2006, 01:17

Hi Folks,

@OMann: I think we know us from pilots.de. Could it be?

Well, TK has new requirements and a new own pilot school which is called "Turkish Flight Academy". If you are not have any flight experience, I mean here: If yor aren't a holder of a licence, you can apply to "Turkish Flight Academy" as a pilot student. The costs will be paid from Turkish Airlines. But you have to work for Turkish Airlines for at least 15 years after your flight training.

The other way to become there a pilot is to apply there as "Ready-Entry" like Lufthansa.

If you want to apply for Turkish Airlines as FO in Ready-Entry way, you should have:

1.) Turkish Nationality

2.) You have to move and live in Istanbul

3.) University degree (Bachelor in Science is ok, Master would be better.) But it is important what you have studied. It must be something to do with aviation or technical study. You can learn it from TK "Insan Kaynaklari Subesi". If you have studied somewhere else as in Turkey, you need "YÖK Denklik Belgesi". You can get it from YÖK, if you show them your diploma or university certificates.

4.) Good English knowledge. You need an examiniation with TOEFL (Test of English as a foreign language) with at least 530 points. This TOEFL is one of three you can chose. And you have to pass the internal tests of Turkish Airlines.

5.) Between 21 and 45 years of age.

6.) Between 165 and 190 cm body height

7.) JAR FCL ATPL (Attention: frozen ATPL is NOT enough!!!) and JAR-FCL Medical Class I

8.) Keep clean. I mean hear: In Ankara there is a check like the TSA in USA.

9.) Completed turkish military service without any bad registrations in the military report.

10.) Read carefully: At least completed 1.500 Flight Hours on at least 5.700kg on fixed wing aircrafts from Turkish Air Force. (Not Helicopters.)

OR

At least completed 1.500 Flight Hours on at least 5.700 kg fixed wing aircrafts in the civilian sector.

That's all. If you want to apply there as a pilot student for Turkish Flight Academy, you need the same requirements above, but the Flight Hours.

So, you see. It is not easy. Good luck!

Kind regards

PICUS