ATPL/CPL "grey area" question

[Private jet]

Heres a poser for you all....

I hold an ATPL so its a bit academic for me now, but used to fly as first officer on my CPL (fATPL) at one time.
What I don't understand is that with CPL only, I could not be legally in command of the aircraft, BUT if the P1 became incapacitated/dead then I would be in command on a CPL, how can that be legal? Interesting thing is if the CAA deem that I was competent to take over in such a situation and fly the thing single handed then why not at any other time? what exactly is the point of the ATPL? You either make the standard for professional aviation or not, and promotion to the LHS has everything to do with the seniority list, nothing else. Why have CPL's/ATPL's why not just a professional licence, (whatever it may be called.)

[Miles Magister]

PJ,

It is an interesting question which you will be able to answer for yourself when you have a little more experience and have made the sideways move across the cockpit.

MM
Learning from experience!

[Private jet]

MM,
I know that experience is a lot in aviation, (my dad did 12k hrs on longhaul, retired 17 years ago, but still gives me good advice!). Its the same with most things, but thats not the point i am addressing here, i'm curious about the black and white legality issue. As per usual it seems like a case of "circumstances altering cases"...

[757manipulator]

Miles...I think the question is more about the relative legal stand-point, rather than a philisophical question about experience.

Ultimately I would like to know as well..what is the legal standpoint?

:)

[Jetstream Rider]

Its easy - its illegal. If the Captains dies you should stop right there and continue no further! (thats sarcastic for all those who don't know).

With due regard to the law and licencing, you should know that you can break any law in order to save life when it comes to aviation. In order to save the lives of those on board, you continue and fly the aircraft - all legal.

Also - it says in Air Law that in the case of the Captain becoming incapacitated that the other pilot becomes the legal commander. Easy.


Since JAA, you can no longer get an ATPL without 500 hours multi crew experience. That means that all the Air Taxi, Aerial work and single pilot stuff is done by CPL holders (and not nescessarily CPL-IR!). The CAA and JAA are quite happy to have CPL holders as Captains - the difference being if you are a Captain of a big jet they want relevant experience. In an emergency, by implication that experience is not a requirement.

[Piltdown Man]

You also forgot the bit that when the chap in left seat becomes incapitated, all the rest of that flight can now be logged as PIC.

[tacpot]

In the situation where the only ATPL holder on the (Air Transport) flight is incapacitated and a CPL takes over to save the lives of all on board, is there a requirement for the FO to land at the first posssible opportunity, so that a legal crew can join the flight for it to continue to its destination, or is the CPL allowed to make the decision that continuing to the destination is the safest option?

[Old Smokey]

The First Officer, whether He / She holds a CPL or ATPL, is the deputy commander of the aircraft. Such a person must hold a P2 rating for the aircraft, which establishes their competance to fly the aircraft. In the event of the Incapacitation / Death of the Captain, it now comes down to the new commander's judgement with respect to diversion, or continuing to the destination. There may be a million words later spoken of the wisdom of the decision made, but, at the time of the occurance, the new commander is LEGALLY vested with the authority to make that decision.

Regards,

Old Smokey