FedEx Caravan down

[PaperTiger]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20051006.wplane1006/BNStory/National/

Anybody have the YWG weather at the time ? C208s don't take kindly to icing.

[Obbie]

The temp. and dew point were even at -1 degrees. Light snow and mist at time of take off.

Pilot requested an immediate return to the field a few minutes after take off. Reporting excessive airframe icing to ATC.

She only needed 3 more miles to make the field, but ran out of time.

Report says the airplane amazingly did not hit any other objects in a very populated area. Without doubt a direct result of a pilot who kept her cool even though things were comming apart around her.

Very sad day.:(

[Jerricho]

I got to work this morning a few hours after this unforunate even happened. Yesterday and this morning were bloody terrible for icing. A very valiant effort by the pilot to put it down in the rail yards.

Very sad indeed.

[PaperTiger]

For information only:

In its Dec. 15 letter to the FAA, the NTSB cited 26 icing-related Caravan accidents from 1987 to 2003, killing 36. Most occurred within the parameters of the icing envelope used for certification purposes (Appendix C). Ten of the 26 events involved inadequate removal of ice before takeoff. The NTSB noted that both visual and tactile checks for any ice on the upper surface of the high-wing airplane is difficult, but it is essential that such checks be done to make sure the wing is absolutely clear of ice.
Aviation Week Jan 3 2005

[er340790]

Federal Express pilot dead in Winnipeg plane crash
Last Updated Thu, 06 Oct 2005 10:55:19 EDT
CBC News

A Federal Express airplane pilot is dead after a crash in Winnipeg Thursday morning.

The Cessna 208 cargo plane was travelling from Winnipeg to Thunder Bay when it crashed in the Osborne Village area of the city. It left only a "twisted heap" of wreckage behind, local radio CJOB said.

Witnesses said the plane attempted to land in a field or on railway tracks near the Confusion Corner intersection, and that no one was hurt on the ground.

Snow and fog were being blamed for the crash.

[Jerricho]

I've been asking around and have been told that if you fly a 208 in icing conditions you're asking for trouble. The de-icing "boots" are there purely to help you get out of the icing conditions......IE turn around and get the hell out.

[spencer101]

If there were to be a poll on this site as to which airplane is the worst to fly into ice with, I am sure the 208 would come out on top.

[Shenlin]

fedex wanted to install ice sensors on the airplane so as to inform the pilots that they have entered icinging conditions .By the time the little light comes on its pretty much too late .When i enter ice in the van i know i dont need a little light to tell me that i am in it , what i need is an airplane that can get rid off it. The cost of such a design would be around 10.000 $ i was told ( little tank in the pod with fluid, then the design on the leading edge that spreds the fluid , sorry forgot the exact name ) .I knew the pilot , i have flown that run , and no little light would have saved her , but a design that could have saved her and many others is just too expensive ...... Not sure how many people have died hauling boxes but this one hit close to home .and the winter has just begun ....

[Jerricho]

A guy who used to fly them up north tells me the "boots" can actually be counter productive to getting the ice off as if they expand the the ice doesn't break off, it can actually provide more surface at the leading edge for ice to form on.

[PaperTiger]

The full NTSB investigation and recommendations are here (http://www.ntsb.gov/recs/letters/2004/A04_64_67.pdf ) (pdf).

Should be mandatory reading for all 208 drivers.

[Shenlin]

great link thanks
we train icing conditions etc every year in the sim , but all of this does not really address the real problem , the van needs to be re-designed , or not be allowed to fly in any icing conditions at all , which of course will never happen since a certain cargo company is the bigges operator of c-208 in the world and depends on this airplane more than people realise .

[rigpiggy]

try aogair.com the hot wing mod

[Shenlin]

all this has been brought up for years and people are still dying .shame on the people in charge , funny thing is their kids don't slug it out every night in single engine airplanes hauling freight ,earning their right onto the big jet , someway, somehow they end up on the jets right away ....... funny world .....

[Canadian Beech]

Rest Peacefully, my Flying Sister.

[upontop325]

The hot wing is called TKS. Supposedly it is fantastic. With no fluid in the tank the system weighs less than the boot system meaning more cargo in the summer. With full fluid it only weighs a little bit more than the boots...an extremely good trade off I would say.

[rigpiggy]

actually TKS is a weeping wing system a leading edge laser drilled with a pump and tank of glycol/alcohol" not sure which. from there website

TKS ICE PROTECTION NOW AVAILABLE FOR YOUR CESSNA CARAVAN AIRCRAFT:

The Caravan series of aircraft can how be equipped with the TKS ice protection system developed by Aerospace Systems & Technologies Ltd. and certified by Flight Ice of Orlando, Florida. The TKS Ice Protection System exudes ethylene glycol-based fluid from porous titanuim panels attached over the airfoil leading edges, a slinger ring on the propeller hub to "sling" the same fluid over rubber boots on each propeller blade, and a spray bar in front of the pilot's windshield area and base of the cargo pod to spray, upon demand, fluid to displace ice build-up.

Picture of the Flight Ice Cessna Caravan. TKS system performance was validated for the Caravan during the previous winter. The aircraft was subjected not only to simulated icing conditions behind an icing tanker, but also to numerous natural icing encounters ranging from rime ice to freezing rain. The aircraft was also rigorously evaluated for handling characteristics with ice-contaminated tail surfaces and large droplet water encounters, two areas of concern that have arisen from recent commuter aircraft incidents. The installation of the TKS system does not alter the performance or handling characteristics when compared to a clean airframe. However, a major benefit of the TKS system on the Caravan is the increase in allowable takeoff weight into known icing conditions for the 208B Model equipped with either the 600 SHP or the 67

[sepia]

I've seen VERY poor results with any kind of alcohol based anti ice systems in temps below -20. I can't imagine this is any different.