LEEDS

[PTH needs tarmac]

To get the ball rolling I hope you don't mind a quick summary of the main topics (in no particular order) from the last few pages of the old LBA thread.

Successful start of the Lahore route and then sudden collapse of Swefly.

Astreus to increase IT routes for Summer 2006, most notably to Greek destinations.

Airport Ownership - private or not.

Rail link to LBA.

Jet2 announce LBA-Roma and -Pisa for Summer 2006.

Terminal re-development.


And a few current events.

Runway 09/27 was withdrawn from use at the start of October.

Work commenced to rebuild taxiway Delta.

October 4th saw the start of the Jet2 LBA-TFS route but without a Jet2 B757!

[veetwo]

Sad to see runway 27/09 closed. As a PPL who flies out of LBA I imagine it will make life considerably harder. There will now be a lot of days when the crosswind component is outside limits - meaning a lot more "non-flying days". A real shame.

Sure - it gives Jet2 and assorted others the room to park more shiny 737's but thats not what *everyone* wishes to see.

V2

[aeulad]

Plan is to upgrade the Astraeus based machine next summer to a 737-700.

Regards

Mike

[POL1W]

The AEU program for S06 is as follows:-
Mon REU and FNC
Tue PMI and HER
Wed RHO
Thur FAO and ZTH
Fri IBZ, MAH and DLM
Sat VRN, ALC and LPA
Sun AGP and LCA

All flights will be by 737-700.
What's more interesting are destinations planned for Winter 06/07 which only a 700 can do.

[PTH needs tarmac]

I think it's no secret that Astreus were looking to offer Sharm-el-Sheikh, Egypt for their S06 program. That plan seems to have lost support from from the IT operators following the terrorist attacks there a couple of months ago.

I don't think we can blame IT's for being cautious about offering more capacity in the current climate. If bookings for S06 remain strong then we should see this route reconsidered for LBA and it is winter destination more than a summer one I would think.

...or did you have somewhere else in mind POL1W?

[Leodis]

Didn't Gambia get a mention at some point. At least all the noises from LBA and Astraeus are good at the moment, so things looking good for the winter 06 then:8

[LBA]

I personally think AEU could be the best thing that ever happened to LBA, they have no ties to tour ops, so they can operate more 'adventorous' routes on behalf of more tour opererators.

Will be interesting to see where they are operating winter 06/07, LBAs charter programme in winter normally leaves alot to be desired.

[coasting]

The first Jet 2 757 has arrived LBA this afternoon. Hopefuly will operate their Sunday TFS after their first flight was operated by a Titan 757 and their second flight with 2 737s.
Interested to know what their second 757 is called, as their first one is Jet 2 Tenerife. Might give some clue as to what they are planning to do with it.

[smythy]

The above has got me interested? Was today's movement a positioning flight and what time does Jet2 Tennerife leave tommorow?:hmm:

[Op checked Satis]

The A/C positioned in from Lasham & is not due to fly until Tuesday

[Leodis]

smythy

Please check your PMs

[ashmac33]

I belive the sunday TFS will continue to be operated by two 737's up unitl the winter period (end of month) and then the sunday rotation be dropped. Think this is due to pax no's unsing this service.
The 75 looks very smart i have to say, and was onboard it this morn and they have done a cracking job with it.

ash

[682ft AMSL]

Today's TFS sector was operated by a single Jet2 737-300 which operated direct using 14 and believe was full.

Unlikely they would drop the Sunday sector given (a) it seems to be the most popular UK bound day of operation (based on lowest available fares) and (b) they have only (within the last week or so) put TFS on sale for another month into '06 - including Sunday services.

682

[Leodis]

The 757 equiptment will operate Tuedays service to Tenerife.

[LBA]

Very strange state of affairs, if the 757 is only going to operate one flight a week, what is the point in 2 757s?

Jet2 MUST be preparing some new routes for them surely.

[jet2impress]

The 757 will operate the TFS flight on Tuesdays and Fridays throught the winter. Not sure what the plans are for the next summer.

The 757 is also operating a variety of other routes on selected dates. Next sunday the 757 will operate the LBA-PMI-LBA service then the LBA-AMS-LBA LS205/206 after the PMI. I have heard this is something to do with crew training.

Anyone else know what routes will be operated by the 757 this winter. Heard the Geneva will be operated by the 75 on busy days.

[682ft AMSL]

Jet2 originally timetabled 2 x daily flights to GVA on Sundays. This has since been reduced to 1 x daily, but retimed to allow a sufficient turnaround from the aircraft arriving from AGP. Putting 2 and 2 together, one suspects the plan is for 1 x 757 to operate AGP in slot 1 and GVA on slot 2 on Sundays. ALC and AGP would stand out as the others obvious contenders for 757 ops.

As for S06, the way the timetable is coming together and some of the frequency adjustments from S05 does hint at regular 757 ops on ALC, AGP and MJV and possibly PMI which has been very strong this summer. By 'topping up' these routes with an extra 737 service in high season, this will give them roughly the same amount of capacity, but with fewer flights.

682

[JET2LBIA]

Jet2 have announced 3 new routes from Blackpool now...

Blackpool - Belfast - starting 31st Oct.

Blackpool - Murcia - starting 3rd April.

Blackpool - Palma - starting 3rd April.

What aircraft will they be using? Presumably a 733...

[LBA]

A- That has already been reported numerous times.

B - Has nothing to do with Leeds.

[RobT100]

Sad to report Thomsons have cancelled their winter LPA flight from LBA and have now moved all pax to DSA.

p.s. "JET2LBIA" - wouldnt be LBIA in another guise would it ??:*

[SASfox]

Looks like the LPA flights are running in Nov and Dec then stop in the new year. Another route for AEU to hopefully pick up for Winter 06/07.

[Leodis]

....hmmmm!! Thomsonfly up to their old tricks.:}

A new route for Jet2 maybe?

[Jet2LBA]

I suspect the LPA change has nothing to do with lack of demand, how on earth could there NOT be demand for a LPA flight during the winter months?!

Hopefully Astreaus are beginning to see the benefits of operating from LBA given that they have the charter market pretty much there for the taking if they so wish. It's nice to see a charter airline showing fresh interest in the airport.

Finally, for future reference, please note that it was user JET2LBIA who posted that old Blackpool news in this thread and not myself, so keep those death threats away from me! ;)

[LBA]

Just as a side note, will next years summer charter programme be the best on record, in terms of routes and pax numbers?

Destinations (Some more than once a week), PMI, MAH, IBZ, ALC, AGP, REU, LPA, ACE, TFS, FUE, VRN, ZTH, HER, RHO, DLM, BJV, VAR, BOJ, LCA, PFO, CFU, Nice to see a decent programme for a change!

[SASfox]

Would be nice to have YYZ, MIR, KGS, SZG, SPU, LJU, PUY, DVB, GCI, GRO, LEI, back aswell. All charter routes which have operated from LBA in the past.

[Andy_S]

Please. No wish lists.......

[PTH needs tarmac]

I'm not sure that was exactly a "wish list", more of a comment.

We all know a fair chunk of that list will not re-appear for a long time, if ever, as tourism in most of the former Yugoslavia region collapsed as a result of the Balkan war. Most UK regional airports had Yugoslavia services before and few do now.

The popular tourist-destinations which have replaced them are exactly the ones being targeted by Astreus and which have generally been very poorly served from LBA. As LBA stated we are actually looking at decent program (for LBA) for S06 and there is reason to be optimistic that this trend will continue. Astreus opening up new destinations by providing a low-risk method for IT companies to offer small amounts of capacity from LBA seems to be the way forward.

[wawkrk]

I believe there is a big demand for flights to the former Yugoslavia.The problem at the moment is lack of Hotel Accomodation.This is restricting growth.

[wawkrk]

Opening up a very contentious issue, would LBA benefit from a name change.This seems to be fashionable at the moment.
I have to say that having travelled for many years, I often hear derogatory comments in particular about one of our cities so the location as a whole does not always seem so desirable to foreigners.
I remember once making a reservation to LBA over the telephone to the KLM Frankfurt office and the guy who answered asked, "are you sure you want to go there?,its a very dangerous place"
Extreme I know, but the overall image is not great.
Years ago the airport authorities were being pressurised by the airlines for a name change.
Maybe Fred Trueman International!
Leaving jokes and sentiment aside because we are all proud of our respective cities, would it benefit comercially from this.

[Jet2LBA]

Well, it's not hard to work out which of the two cities is viewed less positively, and I am born and bred from there!

Many tour companies and even some airlines already market the airport as just 'Leeds' rather than it's full name of Leeds/Bradford. I don't think a fancy name change is required, Leeds is a big enough city for overseas travellers to know where the airport is located. I wouldn't kick up too much of a fuss if Bradford was dropped from the name, most outside of Yorkshire seem oblivious to it being there in the first place! However, it will never happen so long as Bradford Council retain their slice of ownership.

Should the airport ever be sold off, then maybe.

[wawkrk]

I was actually talking about dropping both names.
A lot more could be said that came from overseas visitors that I brought to the UK when I worked in Bradford for many years.
But, it has to be also said that going back years, it was Bradford council that supported the airport more than Leeds. At the time, the idiots on Leeds city council were talking about closing LBA and moving to Thorne Waste.
As I said, we all have our sentiments, but they do not mean anything to to the rest of the world.
LBA is now an International airport.
The people of Doncaster are proud of their town, but from a marketing point of view, Peel seem to have got it right.

[Leodis]

I spoke to a councilor some time ago about this very issue, she said it would be impossible while the airports main share holders are Leeds and Bradford councils. Speaking to other members of management and marketing at the airport some time ago, it was noted that it would also be a very costly exercise.

Airports such as 'East Midlands' opted to follow the LBA way in choosing to name their airport after a city, 'Nottingham' East Midlands'.

Long term, the city of Leeds is likely to have its boundrys extended. The idea of a 'Greater Leeds' area has been suggested by the Chamber of Commerce. Business leaders from Leeds, Bradford, Wakefield and Harrogate have said they think the whole area would benefit from this, with the city of Leeds been the 'powerhouse' of finance, trade and industry of Yorkshire.

There is already talk that the whole of West Yorkshire and parts of North Yorkshire could become part of a 'Greater Leeds'. Cities such as Bradford would not disappear, but would become part of the 'Greater Leeds'.

After this has happened, a move towards choosing a new name for the airport will be more appropriate. It is my opinion that the 'Leeds' part should stay whatever happens. Liverpool get away with 'John Lennon' because he is world famous. I'm not sure 'Fred Trueman' is a world famous name?

Here are a few ideas.....


Leeds International
Leeds Bronte International
Greater Leeds International
Leeds Harry Ramsdon International

and of course, because the Greater Leeds boundry would include Halifax and Huddersfield, you can even have a

Leeds Patrick Stuart International


As for Robin Hood Doncaster Shefield, well, if Leeds wanted to include fictional names as well, this opens up a whole new ball game!

Leodis.

[qcode]

How about

LeedsBradfordWakefieldKirkleesCalderdale International.

Many years ago "Bradford" was going to be taken out of the name but Bradford council would not have it. Quite funny when the r/t for the airport is "Leeds" and not "Leeds Bradford". Also if you listen on the r/t some pilots still call it "Yeadon".

[PTH needs tarmac]

Rumours are circulating that Jet2 will not re-instate their LBA-Venice route next summer.

From the monthly CAA data it has not been the star route from LBA but loads have been significantly higher than their MAN-VCE route.

PTH

[coasting]

It' s true and will also be dropped fom Manchester too.

[Leodis]

I'm sure Jet2 will replace the service with another route, probably the previously mentioned Berlin.

[Leodis]

Just an update on taxiway Delta

The laying of the concrete is expected to start next week, this process is expected to take around seven days weather permiting. The taxiway should be operational around Christmas or just after.

Any news on the soon to be announced Jet2 service?

[Going loco]

Thought the most interesting news for a long time was the revelation this week that the council in Leeds are going to start looking for a private partner to run the airport.

loco

[CentreFix25]

Thought the most interesting news for a long time was the revelation this week that the council in Leeds are going to start looking for a private partner to run the airport.
Best thing that ever happened to NCL.

[PTH needs tarmac]

On the old Leeds Bradford thread this topic came up plenty of times. With all the costs for much-needed construction projects looming having a private partner in control of LBA is probably more important now than ever before.

The scheme under discussion seems to be the sale of a 51% stake to a private company. The carrot of about 200 million pounds (approximate sale price of NCL stake a few years ago) is being dangled in front of the local voters.

The Yorkshire Evening Post ran a Comment article that was surprisingly strongly in favour of privatisation.

http://www.leedstoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=45&ArticleID=1230812


With the composition of the five Councils that own the airport as they stand at present (ie Con-Lib alliances in Leeds and Bradford), this is the first time that the issue of privatisation has made it past the old ideological hurdles.

[TANGO100]

Got the ideal buyer Sir Richard Branson, just think .......
Leeds Virgin International Airport.
He use's the airport for his own fleet of airline just like jet2, we all get the destinations we all want, he ploughs loads of cash into the airport to bring it upto date with most international airports and last but not least we all get the payrise WE all deserve!!
Thats what I call a deal, what you all think of that one.

[AlanSinfield]

Just had a look on the Mytravel Site and found that there is a Friday Summer 06 Astraeus Tenerife flight departing 19:30 and returning 05:10. This means the Mahon flight is slightly earlier than planned. Anybody able to confirm before I book on it???

[LBA]

This happened this year, so would say its definite.

[Leodis]

I was told that Astraeus would not be operating the Tenerife service next year, still it is early doors yet, I would say the schedules are far from complete.

[AlanSinfield]

Interesting because a couple of weeks ago MYTRAVEL weren't selling the ASTRAEUS flight but a lunchtime AEA. It is only in the last few days that the ASTRAEUS flight has gone on sale and the AEA isn't now available.

[INKJET]

LBA Sets the Standards for Green Management
28 October 2005

Leeds Bradford Airport is pleased to announce that is has recently been awarded the ISO 14001 standard for environmental management, making them only the second airport in the UK to have achieved this recognition.

ISO 14001 is the international standard for environmental management and is recognised across all industry sectors.
Increasingly, organisations need to be able to demonstrate sound business management that incorporates green issues. Environmental management is crucial for any business and by achieving this standard Leeds Bradford Airport has shown that this matter is a major priority within it’s company objectives.

Cllr Stewart Golton, who chairs the Airport Board, said ‘We are delighted to have achieved ISO 14001 after working towards it for well over a year. It goes a long way in demonstrating our ongoing commitment towards effectively managing our environmental issues and continued improvement in our environmental performance.’
............................................................ ...............................................So apart from screaming ERJ APU's smoking and i mean smokin GPU's flogging green belt land (Airport west building site) to pay for new taxyway delta allowing Ryanair to still fly coal oil fired 73-200. thats before any repeat of last years farce when 1000's of litres of de ice fluid leaked away without containment........still at least everyone now has the Hivis jackets buttoned up and airside speed radar in place, you can tell its council owned and run

Viktor

[14loop]

So thats how Fernley got rid of the contaminated fluid!!!!

[PTH needs tarmac]

Jet2 have just announced 3x weekly LBA-Mahon on the island of Menorca. It starts on May 22nd 2006 and will operate on Tuesday, Friday and Saturday and will run until the end of the summer.

Good to see Jet2 building up the summer routes but it looks as though the big daily routes are already used up and they are looking mostly for part week stuff now. The amount of based aircraft may also be a limit as on some days they seem almost fully used, at least to the point of not having enough time to perform additional return flights.

PTH

[Leodis]

Yes and the LBIA website talks of Jet2's 20th destination to be announced shortly!

[perky35]

Hows about:


"Leeds needs a runway extension international"

"leeds needs more routes to capital cities international"

"Leeds services should be restricted in favour of "our manchester passengers etc etc" international"


there are many names that would make sense, but why change it? Leeds Bradford is fine as it is, and the 3 letter prefix - LBA is perfect for the name, why change it.

i suppose it could be "Yorkshire International" but it dont sound right.

[RobT100]

Whats the betting number 20 will be Las Palmas. I mean is it a coincidence ThomsonFly have pulled their winter service after Jan 2006 ???

[The Desert Ferret]

With regard the 300m extension to 32 that is being touched upon in a parallel 'LBA - Atlantic Service' thread I'd be intrigued to know about its feasibility.

I was looking out over the threshold from the turning D on 32 and it appears to me that the runway is already almost in folks' back gardens on Arran Drive. I assume that any extension would require re-siting of runway lights, ILS equipment, massive earthworks and compulsory purchase of the houses on Arran Drive.

I'd be amazed, even in spite of tacit approval in the DfT 'Future of' paper, if it could be actioned without a lengthy public inquiry.

Anybody on the inside seen plans or even a feasibility study into an extension? If so, to what timetable and programme are they working?

[SASfox]

I really hope the predictions here over the past few weeks for a "bumper" winter 06/07 are true because looking at the new brochures it doesn't look at all good! No new flights from TUI infact they have pulled their Tuesday ALC. Their flights are Wed- ACE, Thu-LPA( IF IT MAKES IT TO THE 2ND EDITIONS THAT IS) Fri-TFS and Sat- AGP and ALC. Airtours have pulled their Sunday AGP aswell, which leaves their normal Thu-ACE Fri-TFS and seasonal Sat-ALC. It's all well and good saying wait for the 2nd and 3rd editions to come out to see what (or if) they are going to add destinations when you need to book early to get the best discounts or availability over Xmas and New Year.

[Leodis]

Indeed SASfox, this long running saga continues and it is becoming more apparent that the lack of choice is going to continue for another season.

It doesn't surprise me at all that the airport is struggling to attract any new services.

When you try to see what you would see as a passenger and you get:-

*bubbling up rubber flooring,
*A retail walkway that has no retail.
*A Burger King that only opens for a couple of hours a day.
*A customer service team who never even venture away from
the 'lack of information desk', to assist passenger needs.
*Passengers snaking around pillars blocking the revolving doors.
*The horrendous layout of the terminal front.
*Disabled parking is further away than the Express carpark
*Toilets that are too small, hardly ever have soap or sometimes
even hot running water.
*An outdated public transport system.

So when you consider what any prospective airline would see you get:-

*Lack of additional check-in desks
*Insufficiant aircraft parking stands
*Inadequate number of security scanners
*Lack of gates
*Poor quality runway serface
*No parallel taxiway
*No CAT II on runway 14

Little, if anything has been done to rectify any of the above problems.

As I understand it, Jet2 is to announce another destination. With the other services announced and the service to Tenerife expected to continue into the summer, the airport is well on the way to handling its 3 millionth passenger next year. The terminal capasity is 3 million passengers per year, no plans have been put forward to cater for addition passengers as yet.

On the subject of a New York service, anyone who works at the airport would say if the service was launched, it would be a success. Although most Americans have not heard of Leeds, it doesn't mean a new service wouldn't work. Infact, most of the passengers that would use the service would originate from West Yorkshire anyway.

Leeds Bradford needs to spend money today for its tomorrow and if the councillors cannot do it, then bring in someone who can.

rant over!:(

[ashmac33]

hmm saying servisair, aviance and security do most of the information pick-up's i believe you are quite in the wrong there. The information desk is 99% of the time manned. And the handling agents are that short staffed, they cannot place a member of staff airside in time of crisis.

:)

If you ask me the airport is doin fine, apart from saturdays which are so quiet an 8 hour shift seems like 12

[TANGO100]

I know this has been touched in the past but I think the time has come to look seriously at developing southside or at least draw up plans to develop it for domestic flights, lets have a second terminal built and designed by aviation specialists so we don’t have a mix and match scenario as we do at the moment, create at least seven stands..and yes there is space, this would free up additional stands for internationals, extend the departure lounge, an extra airbridge and a COVERED walkway from stands.
And yes I know what your gunna say - the airport cant fund such a project and your right which is why we need to sell the airport to expand, sort out the mess and get things on track and then invite the services the region expects from an international airport.

[Leodis]

ashmac33,

You would say that when you work for the airport authority.

The crunch came with the customer service week, what a joke. 250 odd balloons were released, one for each member of the airport authority staff for their excellent customer service skills.
It was a kick-in-the teath to all the other workers across the airport, who have been dedicated to providing excellent customer service and have help process the 2.6 million passengers this year.

Basically it was the airport saying UP :mad: to all the other dedicated workers at the airport.

I say SELL, SELL, SELL, not forgetting been a Leeds tax payer, part of it belongs to me.:}

[SASfox]

TANGO...Looks like the time to sell is on the horizon!
The following internal email was sent by EA to all staff today.
"I understand that Leeds City Council's Executive board will on Thursday 17th November consider a report which recommends that discussions take place with the other 4 shareholders to consider the future share owenship of the airport. This confirms the story published in the YEP some 2 weeks ago.
I am letting you know that this is happening in case it leads to further publicity in the media."

[TANGO100]

QUITE RIGHT !!
The airport staff are going to be invited to a meeting with EA in approx two weeks time looks like we may find out then.

Myself....I am IN-FAVOUR of the airport being sold off.

Anyone else agree!!

[14loop]

hmm saying servisair, aviance and security do most of the information pick-up's i believe you are quite in the wrong there. The information desk is 99% of the time manned. And the handling agents are that short staffed, they cannot place a member of staff airside in time of crisis.


Why the hell does everyone blame Servisair Aviance et al for all the airports shortfalls.... the info desk should be renamed the useless desk as most pax do get sent to either of the respective ticket desks if they need to know more than the location of the toilets.... Yes the info desk is manned 99% of the time but unfortunately it would be better manned by those little plastic yellow men that stand outside the toilets saying they are closed....I my humble opinion the sooner the airport is sold the better ..................... but then thats a rumour in its own right.....

[14loop]

Or maybe not a rumour now......

see ebay under airports ...... lol

[682ft AMSL]

Following the general lambasting that the airport has taken in the letter's pages of the local press following news of potential private investment, tonight saw a letter of support........

Let's celebrate our airport success story
I and my colleagues at Jet2.com have followed with interest the ongoing debate in the YEP over the current and future ownership of Leeds Bradford Airport.

We believe Leeds Bradford Airport is a Yorkshire success story and that success is very much down to the airport's management team and the support they receive from the owning councils. When we first considered launching Jet2.com, we spent a great deal of time assessing various airports throughout Europe in the search for our first base. We chose Leeds Bradford because it was already a growing regional airport, with a great catchment area and above all a management team, led by Ed Anderson, who very much wanted to support and encourage airlines to start services and base aircraft at their airport.

Three years after the launch of Jet2.com, we now offer frequent services to 18 destinations, from our new, dedicated, check-in facility and we will shortly be announcing more, including Milan. Other airlines, such as British Midland, Eastern Airways and Air South West, also continue to grow at Leeds Bradford and the airport is now able to offer the people of Yorkshire over 50 business and leisure destinations that many other regional airports would relish.

At Jet2.com, we think the airport's in pretty good shape and has the facilities to rival any other regional airport in Europe. What's needed to encourage airlines to launch further services is not only investment in the airport itself, but investment in promoting the region. Whilst flights to Alicante or Malaga can be operated successfully with UK-based passengers, services to destinations in countries such as Germany or Scandinavia are very much reliant on bringing an equal number of overseas passengers to the UK.

If the people of Yorkshire want more air services, then there's a definite need to raise the national and international profile of the region. New initiatives such as Marketing Leeds and Bradford Centre Regeneration are a start, but much more needs to be done, and quickly.

Let's stop knocking Leeds Bradford and celebrate it for what it is, a great regional airport. Whatever the future ownership of the airport may be, let's not waste our energy on debating what private investment may or may not bring, let's use all our energy in shouting about Yorkshire and encouraging people to fly here! This is the real basis for expansion.
Philip Meeson, Chief Executive, Jet2.com

...so Milan back on the cards then? Wonder if this will be back into Bergamo to try and pick up some lakes traffic and maybe retain a bit of the Venice business, or whether they'll go for Linate or Malpenssa?

682

[Leodis]

.....interesting read. It looks like Milan will be in addition to the other destination that they were to announce shortly.

[qcode]

682

Where do you get the aspirations of "we" from. I do not think you have any idea of the airport management. Or what you have done for the airport. Many years ago Ski flights were discouraged as it was not what the airport wanted. Low Cost operaters were discouraged as the airport did not want them. EA discussed with the President of the Leeds & Bradford Chamber of Commerce and concluded that LBA had a bad catchment area. It has only been through pressure from the residents of yorkshire and staff from LBA to bring in more flights. The Airport management do not do anything more than standing up ip in public to pontificate how well they are doing, albeit not their doing. The people who run the airport are the airlines not the LBA management. I think privatisation has to be the next thing.

[TANGO100]

qcode,
I got to agree to a point with your comments, from the ground it always seems as if the airport "plods along" just look at the time table this winter...... how many international airports have incoming/outgoing flights stopping at 21:45 for most nights of the week, it seems to me that the level of passenger numbers seen to just dwindle away when the winter timetable comes into force, WHY!!
This is were we should be looking to get the growth not just sitting back and waiting for the next summer to come along.
People don’t just stop going on holiday just because its coming into winter here, the destinations should be broader I wonder how many Yorkshire folk have to travel over the Pennines to get hotter destinations remember "Lbia" people don’t stay at home in winter, I know loads of people go away now for Christmas, why don’t you do a survey on the website and see where the folk go, might give marketing an idea as to where to look for new destinations, and yes what ever happened to the NY survey

[Jet2LBA]

Well, winter flights a couple of years ago on Saturday evenings seemed to end with the 19:40 KL arrival from AMS, at least things last just a little later now! :D

However, I get the point, and the choice of winter sun destinations from LBA is pitiful. Only the Canary Islands are offered as a real opportunity to get some decent warmth over the winter months (and LPA stops in January, what the hell is that all about???)

Egypt, Madeira and Cyprus (together with LPA for the whole winter) are all completely viable for the number of people who travel from West Yorkshire to these destinations. The difficult part is getting tour operators to think away from the safety of MAN, where they prefer to funnel passengers in from surrounding regions.

[RobT100]

QUOTE: ============
(and LPA stops in January, what the hell is that all about???)
==================

Jet2 starting LPA thats what !

[baps]

Maybe not enough bookings after JAN for LPA!!!

[PTH needs tarmac]

qcode

I think the "We" refers to Philip Meeson and the management of Jet2, who wrote that letter which was published in the Yorkshire Evening Post (YEP) newspaper, and not to 682 himself.

I would prefer to know why PM is seemingly against LBA being operated by a private group, rather than the current council dervied mangament?


baps

...not enough bookings for LPA, but from which airport??? LBA? DSA? MAN?

In the past we've seen quite a few LBA flights amalgamated into MAN flights and it's not always because the LBA flight is selling poorly.

With the B757s coming along for Jet2 these could almost eliminate the old Winter ITs from LBA if the current TFS route is expanded upon. In the summer the likes of ALC, AGP and PMI have all seen significant drops in the IT pax but these have been obscurred by the huge rise in pax on Jet2.

[perky35]

"maybe not enough bookings for LPA".......

\"maybe not enough bookings for LPA\".......

Thomsonfly are switching the flight to Robin Hood.....


\"why Phillip Meeson is against a privatly owned airport\".....

Because Jet2 pay bugger all at LBA, minimal landing fees, hardly anything to Serviceair etc.... a private owner would come in and say \"right, this is how much it will cost to land a 737 at LBA\", and PM will have to start paying out the dosh....

[PTH needs tarmac]

perky

Private management does not necessarily mean stupid management. Most other UK regional airports have private companies in operational control but still have large LCC operations based there - BRS, LPL and EMA for starters.

I'm sure Jet2 are paying LBA a pittence at present and a new private operator would be an unknown quatity, but if it happens then that private operator would have to be amazingly dumb to bite the hand that provides about 45% of the total passengers at LBA this year. They would look to expand the sales outlets to harvest as much cash off the punters as possible before they get onboard. At present the layout of the commercial outlets is too haphazard, especially landside.

[TANGO100]

Big meeting for Friday in boardroom - MP's and councillors to discuss possible sale of ownership and it's effect on the Airport.

Is this the big one!!

[682ft AMSL]

The Executive Board of the council will vote on the potential ownership options tomorrow. A copy of the report that will be debated is available via the Council website

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/files/2005/week46/inter__09d25b2e-a116-40be-b7e7-2c67c6c297e9_111866f8-a495-4ef8-8d66-fc63ec6e138c.pdf

(the Airport report begins on page 57).

The actual recommendation sections have been omitted on the grounds of commercial sensitivity. However a copy of these sections was leaked to the YEP earlier in the week and they reported that 6 potential ownership options have been evaluated and ranked in the report. These range from 'no change' through to a majority disposal and basically all points in between, including leasing the airport out for a fixed term. The YEP reported that a 'majority disposal' came out as the 'clear winner' compared to all other options and therefore the vote tomorrow will be taken on that basis.

682

[PTH needs tarmac]

From April 10th 2006 Air Southwest will increase it's BRS-LBA-BRS flights to three times daily, adding a mid-afternoon rotation. However, the morning and evening flights will no longer originate at NQY so a day-return to NQY will no longer be possible.

Instead a 1x daily, direct NQY-LBA-NQY service will be started (lunchtime-ish). Also, the new mid-afternoon BRS flight will continue to NQY and a late afternoon flight from NQY will connect (aircraft change) at BRS to the last BRS-LBA service.

Overall this does mean a doubling of weekday flights by WOW at Leeds Bradford.


682

Re Privatisation. There seems to be little activity in the other four West Yorks Councils over this issue at the present.

[TANGO100]

PTH - see my last post, Friday is the day!!

[Leodis]

NEW CARPARK EXTENSION

An application for 2222 carpark spaces has been submitted to Leeds City Council.

I cannot see how it can be viable to build many more parking spaces without building up. This also contradicts the airports so-called green management stance, more green fields vannished forever. I am in favour of expansion to facilities but wise, justified and reasoned expansion.

I am pleased that Air Southwest is adding to their alrealy successful operation at Leeds. There is obviously a need for improved links to the South West of England. I would like to think that Flybe will make a similar announcement in due course.

[TANGO100]

I think its time the airport built a multi story car park and link it directly to the terminal, the inconvenience to passengers if they miss the mini bus is going to be huge, if they built a multi 3000 space car park and add just a couple of pounds to the tariff would benefit all,
- passengers not out in the cold,
- small walk to terminal,
- no extra mini bus needed saving cost,
- and no extra cost of a driver must out way the need of a mile hike from passengers missing the bus.

The car parks generate Huge income for the airport so come on Lba put some back!!

[vortexadminman]

At Jet2.com, we think the airport's in pretty good shape and has the facilities to rival any other regional airport in Europe. What's needed to encourage airlines to launch further services is not only investment in the airport itself


Sorry cant concur at all. I like jet 2 a lot, fly with them all the time and have a mate who is a Captain with them. Leeds is not a great regional airport in my or other collegues opinion. Yes it has all the destinations etc etc but as a functioning airport terrible. Yes it s team might have all the right ideas in action or in process of being actioned but at present it cannot handle the amount of people it is attracting. It is a small airport playing at a biggish one, ask any pax going through when one holiday flight is about to depart crowded, check in about 2 miles long, security well two machines, twenty check in staff and only one machine working. Dont want to be picky pax.com but as a heavy user of UK airports find LBA one of the worst for ease of transit and facilites. From roads into the place to parking then the always be along in a min bus to the jet. I think that serviceair are mainly to blame for this not the people but their manning system which is way to low. Stand on that bus and listen to the lass going on about how many people they had to cover this and that and I sympathize cause they were hugely undermanned. Not the first time have heard that either so it wasnt one whinger. Rant over.

[Leodis]

So today was the big meeting day about the future ownership of the airport. Any news?:8

[BombardierCR7]

Duesseldorf seems to be a strange destination for Jet2, assuming PM takes up the slot.

Again subject to PM taking up the slots, Venice and Milan make a welcome return. Tad more on Paris too.

[14loop]

Quote"I think that serviceair are mainly to blame for this not the people but their manning system which is way to low. Stand on that bus and listen to the lass going on about how many people they had to cover this and that and I sympathize cause they were hugely undermanned."


Here we go again.... blame servisair..... If Jet2 paid the going rate then the staff would be available but sadly as servisair are not a charity service to Jet2 then they get exactly the service they pay for... The airport has 7 parking stands where the pax need to be brought in/out of the terminal by bus but only have three buses and the staff most of the time to drive two but I dont hear you guys moan about that!!!! There is only one walkway from stand 9 to stand 11 so only one flight can board at a time !! who's fault is that ! not servisairs .... Its not all servisairs fault .. Sure they have problems but for gods sake stop blaming everything thing on them..

[Jet2LBA]

Duesseldorf seems to be a strange destination for Jet2, assuming PM takes up the slot.

Interesting.............personally would have been more interested in Berlin, Munich, Hamburg or Frankfurt before Dusseldorf, but I guess they have done their homework and any new service to Germany would be welcome.

Venice and Milan certainly would be a welcome return, was surprised VCE was in doubt as LS even managed to operate it during the winter last year, so one would think the summer flights are popular. Will BGY be the chosen Milan airport? Seems most likely, but then again LS have chosen FCO rather than CIA for Rome so perhaps we can dream that the much handier LIN can be offered for Milan.

As for CDG, an increase in flights could provide an interesting response from Bmi.

[Leodis]

Dusseldorf - even if the slots are LBA-DUS you can bet your bottom dollar the flights will be moved to Manchester when PM does his little shuffle with those old routes. Or to put it another way think back to when he obtained LBA-LGW slots.

The Double daily CDG will probably come to Leeds, but again I wouldn't be over supprised for the slots to be used from Manchester, given that it would not be the first time PM has started flights to an already over subscribed route. The other theory is that the midday slot could go to say BLK and the twice daily slots to LBA.

Whatever happens LBA need not worry, PM always pulls something out of the wood work for this side of the Pennines.:8

[Leodis]

21-11-05

Remember that date when they all complain about LBA on it's mist shrouded hill top!!

Diversion from BHX, MAN, LPL, BLK, EMA, HUY in 12 hours of madness:{

[vortexadminman]

Exactly Loop,
Perhaps the airlines there do need to sort out there dealings with serviceair. Till both or all companies do that it will continue to be a crap airport to transit through.

[LBIA]

Hi

LBA has launched is master Plan.

Its calling for the following.

New Road Links
New Rail Links
More Car parking spaces
Extra Aircraft Apron spaces
Terminal expansion
New Taxi-way

No Runway Expansion call for until after 2016.

Anyway the full report is on the LBA's website. http://www.lbia.co.uk/masterplan.php

[Leodis]

Leeds Bradford International Airport releases details of its expansion as it reveals its long awaited masterplan. Is it enough to propel the Yorkshire airport into new hights or is it just another damp sqid? You decide.

Proposals included in the Masterplan include the following:

*New road link from the A65 near the Leeds ring road

*Improved terminal facilities

*Construction of a parallel taxiway

*New hotel and office development

*Increase short-term carpark spaces from 733 to 1,633

*Increase long-term carpark spaces from 2,100 to 5,100

*Increase the number of aircraft parking stands from 18 to 29

*A new landscape 'buffer' zone between Scotland Lane and the airport

*ferther studies into the feasability of a new rail-link beween Horsforth and the airport

Proposals to extend the runway are to be looked at again at a later date.:8

drat double drat.....you beat me to it LBIA:ouch:

[wawkrk]

As I said on key-pub, "good news for DSA then".

[14loop]

Quote"21-11-05

Remember that date when they all complain about LBA on it's mist shrouded hill top!!

Diversion from BHX, MAN, LPL, BLK, EMA, HUY in 12 hours of madness"

Remember the date because the next morning while 8 diverts were parked any where there was a space (BY posn had to hold 30 mins till space was made for him @ 0600) LBA flights were being disrupted & sourthwest cancelled due to the mist on the ' mist shrouded hilltop'

[LBIA]

Hi

Has anyone noticed that the low fare finder on Air Wales website is listing both LBA and MAN services from Plymouth.

There is no flight times or info given at the moment.

Is this the start Compertition against Air Southwest. After all they are launching services from Cardiff. Which was announced last week.

[Leodis]

Firstly I have to say that this is a DRAFT proposal and the airport has asked for public opinion.

Passenger numbers to increase

I think all in all the proposals look quite reasonable. The only thing that I feel doesn't add up are the expected passenger figures of 4.7 milion by 2016. The airport handled around 1.4 million passengers just two or three years ago, with 2.7 million expected this year rising to 3 million in 2006. So the airport has doubled its passengers in three years but it doesn't expect passenger figures to double again for another ten years. It is my opinion that the airport will probably handle 4.7 million passengers by the year 2009 rising to 7 million by 2016. I have based this growth on Leeds and other airports of similar size and catchment.

Proposed future runway extension


The report says this is to be looked at again every five years. Land has been set asside at both ends of the runway for upto aproximately 550 metres in total. Although an extension would be advantageous, the airport has a list of other priorities that must be addressed prior to this. Technical advances are available at less cost to effectively increase the available runway for landings without extending the actual concrete.

Proposed parallel taxiway and extended tunnel

This project is a must if the airport is to carry on increasing the number of aircraft using the airfield. It is not an ideal setup at the moment where aircraft have to make full back-tracks of the runways before take off and after landing. This proposal is fundermental to the airports future growth and it must be carried out as soon as possible.

Additional aircraft parking stands

The proposals are to increase the aircraft parking stands from 18 to 29. Again the timescale for this looks wrong. The airport often has all stands in use during the night time in the summer months. Extra parking stands are needed now if the airport is to attract additional based aircraft.

Additional carpark space

I think the number of serface carparks needs to be addressed, the airport must look at multistorey carparking medium to long-term.

New rail links from Horsforth to Guiseley with a station at the airport

This is a fantastic proposal if it ever gets of the ground. The service could be used by people from Yeadon and Rawdon as well as airport passengers. Guiseley could also have a new station incorperated into these proposals.

New road link from the Leeds Ring Road to the airport

The airport needs a link road. The A658 and the A65 in the Aireborough area are very busy even off peek. The DfT has said in the White Paper for airports that without a new link road it cannot see how the A658 can cope without making it into a dual carrigeway. The proposed link road is also fundermental to the future growth of the airport.

Proposed areas for airport related employment

There are two main areas earmarked the this, Airport West is already under construction and will generally be used for light industrial. The other main area will be opposite the main terminal and will probably be used for additional hotel developments. Projects such as these should help the airport to maximise its income.

Additional terminal developments

Although the plans appear non-specific, the land set asside for future development to the terminal covers over half a mile of land. Enough land has been set asside for a sunstantially sized terminal to be built.

My summary

I think the airports plans for sustainable growth incorperating various environmental measures is the correct way forward. Whilst I feel the timescale for some of the proposals need adjusting, the projects proposed are reasonable. Overrall the proposals will allow for greater flexibility by airlines to operate to destinations further afield. The airport must try and meet its goals sooner if its proposals are to propel the airport into the next division.

Leodis

[PTH needs tarmac]

From the look of the rather simple map it seems that proposed route is a spur off the Horsforth line and onto the Ilkely line near Guiseley that can then route through Baildon and on to Bradford Foster Square or up to Skipton.

This certainly fits with the calls from the Aire Valley rail users group (or whatever it's called) to have rail access to LBA not just from central Leeds. These potential routes could just make a through service viable, where a dead-end route to LBA only would be a total non-starter.

Alternate trains from Leeds could go to Ilkely, Skipton, and Bradford via LBA with a fairly small increase in journey time for through passengers but still expand the catchment area for public transport to LBA by a vast proportion.

Having been previously very skeptical of a rail link to LBA (until it hits 5+ million pax) I have to say this proposal has a slight chance of success.

Re Pax number predictions - send for some private management with a bit more ambition as soon as possible, & some ability to get more investment in quickly or it really will be an 11 year plan.


Re Eggs and baskets - other regional airports have survived the nervous years of being a base for a single dominant LCC.

PTH

[The Desert Ferret]

Alas I differ a little on the rail link to LBIA PTH.

The link to Guiseley would be the non-starter in the short-medium term because the additional capital costs of construction from LBIA to Guiseley would not justify the additional pax/revenue from Bradford.

The big bucks are from Leeds and the link from Horsforth to LBIA is shorter than the link from LBIA to Guiseley.

Having looked at the OS map I think it would be quite an engineering challenge to get up from Horsforth to LBIA but I think there is bigger challenge dropping the 60 odd-metres in to Guiseley.

That said - if one could ignore the cost of construction having a through route from Horsforth to Guiseley WOULD be better and more flexible but it just won't justify itself.

The leeds facing terminal might be a goer in the medium term when pax are up to 5m plus so don't get too excited everybody.

[LBIA]

The Bridgetown flight by Thomson B767-300 Today went direct from LBA with out a fuel stop.

Thomsonfly have also comfirmed that they will once again be basing a Boeing 767-200 at LBA for the first 3 months of the summer 2006 season. The B767-200 will change to a B757-200 on July 28th 2006.

Astraeus have now comfired that they will be opertaing a B737-700 for next summer. I guess this won't have the same problems as the B737-300 reaching places in Greece, Cyprus and The canery islands??

Looks like its going to be a good one next summer for charter flights from LBA.

[virginblue]

Germany's leading broadsheet FAZ today runs an longish article on DUS and Jet2 is explicitly mentioned as one of a number of new carriers that will benefit from the recent decision by the state department of transport to increase the number of slots.

A LBA-DUS route has been looked into a couple of times in the past. BMI has repeatedly requested slots for LBA at DUS in the past. There should be a market, given that LH and BA both have a couple of daily flights from DUS to MAN.

[lbalad]

1.Anybody know if the Bridgetown flight was full or not?.2.Why if Thomsonfly can fill a 767 in the quieter months,why change to smaller a/c in peak summer season?.3.What problems did Astraeus have?.I flew with them to LPA no problem.Although it was a bit of a drag,with no IFE,do the 700's have this fitted?.

[Floppy Link]

Why if Thomsonfly can fill a 767 in the quieter months,why change to smaller a/c in peak summer season?

Different route structure for long haul in the summer perhaps, needing the 767. Winter long haul programmes may be a bit slacker thus freeing up the 76 for the regional bases?

Who knows :confused:

[San Expiry]

Announced that Eastern is pulling off the LBA -IOM route. Passenger numbers way down and given Eastern's fares not really surprised. :eek:

[NCLRULES]

T3 do the same from all airports which have a ABZ route.

[airhumberside]

There may also be similar connections to the new Stornoway service when it starts

When was it annnounced Eastern would axe LBA-IOM? Wonder who could take it over?

[starbag]

lbalad - Astraeus 73G's don't have IFE fitted.

[682ft AMSL]

Inkjet - although it's debatable whether the 'eggs in one basket' scenario at Leeds is materially different from other regional airports with a dominant loco, the situation is as much to do with the inertia of some of the incumbent operators as it is the growth of Jet2. I know you have been fond in the past of making many bold predictions about bmi developments at Leeds, but the fact remains their LBA operation is no different now to pre-Feb 2003 when Jet2 launched. They continue to operate (albeit on a reduced basis) to airports like JER and ORK, despite their own loco arm helping to drive the market to these places firmly into the low-cost arena . BRU limps along on the Eastern A/W principle of low volume - high yield. Despite the F100 proving significant peak demand for EDI and CDG, the capacity lost on these services has not been replaced. The one new bmi route launched post Jet2's arrival lasted 6 months - which was pretty much how long most people said it would last once they saw the timings and the fares on offer.

bmi have the right aircraft and the necessary alliance connections to grow their LBA ops with a series of flights into places like MUC, CPH and FRA which should attract a mix of high yielding point to point traffic and connecting traffic onto the STAR network. Arguably a much better use of the Embraer fleet than ORK, JER and BRU. The biggest mystery of course is that someone in bmi would seem to agree given the two aborted attempts at LBA-CPH and a series of workable MUC slots that have been obtained then handed back. Perhaps the reason Jet2 are becoming so dominant is that they are not bogged down with the inter-company nonsense that it would seem stands in the way of bmi making a go of things?

682

[SASfox]

SOU to go twice daily from next summer and a weekly Bergerac on Saturdays from 27 May.

[LBIA]

Jet2 have put Amsterdam, Paris and Tenerife on sale on there website today from LBA for the summer 2006 season as follows

Amsterdam - Stays twice daily all week.
Paris Cdg - Stays once daily with no changes to its flight times.
Tenerife - Gose down to twice weekly with the Sunday service been dropped.
Belfast Int'l - Stays as winter service timetable Twice daily weekdays once daily Sataurdays and Sundays.

Good news about flybe's new French route to Bergerac, and Southampton going up to twice daily. I think we all expected this to happen

[SASfox]

Looks like Thomson have dropped BJV already for next Summer!

[LBA]

Yep they have unfortunately! Lets hope Varna and Paphos dont go the same way.

[RobT100]

I hate Thomson, they are upto all sorts of tricks at LBA. Pulling flights, after a big marketing ploy. Basically what happens to the pax that have booked now for BJV ----> DSA thats what !

Its not on and if I were in charge id have them out, it gives the airport a bad name.

[LBIA]

Hi

Jet2 have now added both Venice Marco Polo and Milan Bergamo 4 times weekly services from Leeds/Bradford for summer 2006. Both are now on sale on its website.

LBA - Venice
Tuesdays, Thursdays, Fridays and Sundays
LBA - Milan Bergamo
Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays & Saturdays

[LBIA]

Hi

LOT Polish airlines low cost airline Centralwings.com have announced a new 3 times weekly LBA - Warsaw Route. The new Flights commence on March 26th 2006 and will be operated by the airlines Boeing 737-400 Aircraft.

Flights arrive LBA at 00:15 with an 1 hour 30 mins turn around and departure at 01:45 in the morning. The new Flights will arrive LBA on Wednesdays, Fridays & Sundays.

Anyway here is the full timetable

Warsaw - Leeds/Bradford
C0627 22:30 - 00:15 -2-4-6-
Leeds/Bradford - Warsaw
C0628 01:45 - 05:25 --3-5-7

[Jet2LBA]

LOT Polish airlines low cost airline Centralwings.com have announced a new 3 times weekly LBA - Warsaw Route.

Whilst not doubting the credibility of LBIA's post, I really thought this was a p*ss take when i read it. However, having just visited the Centralwings website, it's true!

Whilst new services are always welcome, it has to be said that the times of the flights are hideous, the LBA-WAW sector in particular. How many people are going to want to choose that? Oh well, if it's cheap then maybe.......

Looks like the folks in charge of the lbia website are really proud too, no mention whatsoever!

[wawkrk]

Centralwings are ok but,
Who will use such departure times.

For me, I will stick to LBA-AMS-WAW, usually about £70 + a lot of tax, but civilised departure times.

WAWKRK

[TANGO100]

Quick price check for March
Going Out
1 Adult at 9,89 GBP 9,89 GBP
Taxes and Fees ( details) 16,33 GBP





Coming Back
1 Adult at 1,00 GBP 1,00 GBP
Taxes and Fees ( details) 16,49 GBP






Total Cost 43,71 GBP
Cheap if you want to go to Warsaw I suppose......Mmmmmmm

[LBIA]

Hi

just been looking on the on-line timetable at KLM's website and it looks as LBA has some timetable changes from the end of the winter season in March 2006. Later afternoon and Evening flights arrive LBA after the Jet2 flight

LBA - AMS
KL1540 1234567 06:05 - 08:30
KL1546 1234567 10:15 - 12:40
KL1550 1234567 17:05 - 19:20

AMS - LBA
KL1545 1234567 09:20 - 09:35
KL1549 1234567 16:15 - 16:25
KL1543 1234567 21:00 - 21:10

[lbalad]

Excellent news,a new route and airline to lba.Have to admit flight times naff though.However I believe Leeds has quite a sizeable Polish community.If the price is right,I think this route will do well.Hell,I think I'll even book myself,somewhere new to go from my local airport.Not checked the LBIA website,but if this is not mentioned there,unbelievable.

[BombardierCR7]

Lbalad/Jet2LBA: There's been a press release re CentralWings on the LBA website for well over 16 hours now.
CentralWings themselves have not yet issued a press release. Normally LBA company policy (as with most UK airport companies) is to not issue a press release until the airline has.

[ashmac33]

Nice to hear about the new routes, the hours though arnt brill. Nightmare shift for the handling agents contracted for the flight, i dont think i'll be up for this late shift, the ryanair 2215 is bad enough!

[BombardierCR7]

Anybody any ideas if Jet2 still plan to launch the following from 26th March:

LBA - DUS 18.15 - 20.30 LS347 Daily
DUS - LBA 21.00 - 21.15 LS348 Daily

An announcement has been expected for the last couple of weeks, but as yet still nothing....

[gary4444]

Timings and flight numbers are shown on the Dusseldorf website timetable, so I would guess its happening.

[Going loco]

Nothing on the DUS website that I can see about either Leeds or Jet2. Has someome misinterpreted slot requests as a real committment to fly the route, maybe?

loco

[gary4444]

It was there on the timetable yesterday but has mysteriously disappeared overnight leaving only Birmingham, Manchester, Newcastle, Stansted, Heathrow and London City.

Might not be happening after all.

[LBIA]

Hi

Just been looking on the ryanair website and some of there summer 2006 programme has been released. And its looking like its bad news for LBA.

By the looks of things the 3 times daily LBA - Dublin flights will be dropped to just 6 times weekly. Once daily weekdays and on Sundays. There is no sign of any Saturday flights as yet.

Here is the provisional timetable so far.

DUBLIN-LBA
FR 156 18:50 - 19:45 ------7
FR 156 21:20 - 22:15 12345--

LBA-DUBLIN
FR 157 20:10 - 21:00 ------7
FR 157 22:40 - 23:30 12345--

[Flightrider]

Hold fire & wait to see if they are in the middle of loading their schedules.

[BombardierCR7]

most UK airports are currently showing a lot less including MAN. BHX, EMA, NCL, CWL etc, so either RYR are going round with a big axe or as Flightrider says, are possibly in the middle of uploading the schedules

[GrahamK]

This is a message that I got whilst looking for NCL-DUB flights next summer:

Please note that flights for travel on/after 26th March 2006 will be available for sale on/before 16th December 2005.

[RobT100]

So what has that got to do with LBA ?

[GrahamK]

That maybe the full Dublin-UK schedule will be on sale from this date...

[Going loco]

Jet2 have abandoned plans for LBA-DUS.

Will LBA **EVER** get a German route?

loco

[Leodis]

As of when? The last I heard was that there ase still two more destinations to come and that was as of last tuesday?

[Going loco]

Have you been told that one of the two destinations is DUS? There could still be more routes to come but I wouldn't bet on it being DUS. Strange one really, the slot they got was the slot they applied for. DUS and LBA were ready to announce 2 weeks ago but I fear someone has had a change of plan.

loco

[coasting]

These slots were handed back last week, so correct going loco, no DUS flight form LBA by Jet2.

[harrogate]

Quote LBIA

"Hi

Just been looking on the ryanair website and some of there summer 2006 programme has been released. And its looking like its bad news for LBA.

By the looks of things the 3 times daily LBA - Dublin flights will be dropped to just 6 times weekly. Once daily weekdays and on Sundays. There is no sign of any Saturday flights as yet.

Here is the provisional timetable so far.

DUBLIN-LBA
FR 156 18:50 - 19:45 ------7
FR 156 21:20 - 22:15 12345--

LBA-DUBLIN
FR 157 20:10 - 21:00 ------7
FR 157 22:40 - 23:30 12345--


[Last edited by LBIA on 15th December 2005 at 13:54]"


Seems the upload is now complete, LBIA. Ryanair still 3 times daily :)

[Jet2LBA]

Yep, FR's LBA-DUB remains pretty much unchanged schedule wise, for summer 2006. Still 3 flights each weekday, at almost identical times as previously (ie unfortunately no earlier flight in the morning).

Still, the capacity increases due to the 189-seat 738's taking over from the 130-seat 732's.

[Leodis]

Which represents a net gain of around 354 passenger capacity per day, or about 2478 passengers per week.(based on both sectors) So not bad at all if they can fill it!

[682ft AMSL]

Well, the end of a year of considerable progress. Passenger numbers look like being a shade over 2.6m, the potential for pirivate investment has at last been acknowledged and the publication of the draft masterplan creates a development framework that, if implemented. should avoid some of the planning mistakes of the past. Route wise continued growth from Jet2 plus the arrival of Air Southwest and growth from Flybe is all good news.

On the downside, the Swefly operation was shortlived although it did offer a brief glimpse of the potential of routes into Pakistan from the airport. Incumbent operators bmi and Eastern continue to offer no signs of initiative or expansion on their LBA operations. bmi regional in particular are frustrating given their obvious potential.

The charter market declined at a faster rate from LBA than the national average despite the welcome arrival of Astraeus. Whether capacity on the inclusive tour market has much further to fall will depend ultimately on a range of economic factors as well as where the next stage of expansion from the low-cost airlines occurs. That said, there remains a sizeable market for LBA to serve and success will ultimately depend on persuading tour operators to compliment or substitute capacity at MAN with services from LBA. History tells us this has never been easy and I don't forsee any major gains in 2006/2007.

The outlook for 2006 is nonetheless encouraging and new services already announced coupled with frequency upgrades on other routes should push 2.6m passengers close to 2.9m. Hopefully a few more routes may come on stream in time for the summer to push the airport towards 3.0m. Passing this barrier and securing a seasoned private airport operator to help fund investment and boost route development should ensure a successful year.

All the best for 2006 to all.

682

[WOWBOY]

I saw this on the Leeds/Bradford Arrivals Board:

CB561 PLYMOUTH 2215

also on the departure board:

CB560 EXETER 1730

What are these? Scot Airways Plymouth and Exeter Charters???

[Jet2LBA]

It's a football charter. Plymouth vs Leeds Utd tomorrow, so probably flying the team down to Devon.

Granted, it's unusual that it flies into Exeter and then returns to LBA this evening from Plymouth. Would imagine this means it will be flying there again tomorrow to bring the team back after the game.

CB do quite a lot of football team charters.

[WOWBOY]

Thanks
I thought it would be a football charter

[Leodis]

Removed to update

[HOODED]

The LBIA wesite has a new news story claiming 3m pax as a target for 2006 and new routes. Ryanairs upgrade to the -800 is also mentioned. It also mentions actively talking to an airline about a Germany service. I wonder which airline and which city. Hopefully 2006 will be the year we finally get a German connection. A lot of the new routes are not new just old dropped routes being restarted. Still lets hope the airport continues to make progress and hits the 3m mark.

[The Desert Ferret]

As a regular London - Leeds traveller I'm hoping for re-introduction of Gatwick and or Docklands services - and the big hike in GNER rail fares should hopefully bring them into consideration again. (Saver return now 72 quid with restrictions, open return 165 quid - enough to put me off when the cheapest flights at 71 quid from Heathrow - though no free food/drink now!).

Heathrow is such an awful place to get to - even with the expensive Heathrow Express that dumps you nowhere near London - (thats Paddington).

[Going loco]

Inkjet zzzzzzzzzzz

Check your posts this time last year - you said the same thing. Hasn't the penny dropped yet that there is room for both LBA AND DSA. Did the passenger numbers last summer not teach you anything. And why this obsession with the weather? What was the diversion rate last year - 50 from 15,000? Weren't 10 of those when the Airbus had its moment back in May?

If you've got a genuine interest in LBA going somewhere - kick your mates at bmi up the a**e.

loco

[682ft AMSL]

Inkjet

3m won't happen unless more routes are announced for 06, I don't think there is much debate over that. Rolling 12month passenger numbers are likely to dip below 2.6m in the first few months of 06 as a result of the lighter Jet2 winter schedule, but there is a significant amount of growth in the form of new services, frequency upgrades or capacity increases from the end of March onwards that will support growth to between 2.8m and 2.9m. The masterplan actually predicts 3.1m as the 2006 number which seems particularly ambitious - i.e. net growth of 0.5m in 9 months.

On ski-flights, if skis don't fit in the Fokker70 why have they used this a/c every year for the past x number of years? Why have you omitted the Chambery flights (both IT and scheduled) from your list? What are the volumes for seat-only vs IT for Ski-destinations?

I've given you data on the diversion rate before so I'm confused why you still have the misconception that it's a major issue. That is not to say that if the airport make good on their masterplan objectives to upgrade 14 to CATII and squeeze some more LDA out of 32 that things couldn't improve further.

682

[PTH needs tarmac]

Inkjet.

LBA, poor ski flight provision?

I count up 8x weekly to Geneva and 3-5x weekly to Chambery with Jet2. OK, we only have 2 IT service to Innsbruck and Chambery.

For a quick, rough comparison. EMA has 10xGeneva and 5 IT. NCL has 7x Geneva with EZY and 4 IT.

Given that both are substantially larger regional airports than LBA then the LBA provision stacks up very well.

Why are ski punters dependent on IT services? They manage to do DIY summer holidays to Malaga with ease. Why should they suddenly turn to packages for ski-trips?

...and scrap the LBA bad weather story it's repeated endlessly in the local press etc but have you stopped to check the facts. These days we lose far fewer flights to bad weather than 10 years ago. Sure we get a day that goes pear-shaped here and there but there are 360+ other days that get along just fine.

PTH

[LBIA]

Hi

Thomas Cook have added a second flight to Corfu for summer 2006.

The new flight will be operated by the Based Astraeus Boeing 737-700 on Friday nights instead of going to Tenerife for Airtours.

Airtours Holidays have now got in-house airline My Travel Airways to operate the Friday Tenerife service instead. Well thats only acordding to the airtours website as the LBA website is no longer showing the service.

So has the Tenerife Friday night service been axed or Not???

[SASfox]

Good news about the extra CFU. Just noticed that the Airtours PMI on Saturdays is now a morning departure with AEA. Does anyone have the full AEU programme for this Summer? Is it now 16 flights a week?
The poor old LBIA website is as reliable as ever i'm afraid. Atlantic Holidays restart their FNC flights on Monday 20th Feb with AEU but not a word about this on the charters page. Take a look at the AEU arrival and departures times aswell... there all over the place.

[682ft AMSL]

Inkjet - looking at the UK pax data for Feb-2005, it looks like IT passenger volumes to ski destinations was around 300k. Passenger volumes on scheduled services to destinations serving the main ski regions was around 400k. Clearly almost everyone on the IT flights will be going ski-ing whereas a proportion of the scheduled traffic won't be. Depending on what % of the scheduled traffic is non-ski will determine whether IT or seat-only has the lions share. Certainly the seasonal scheduled services that Jet2 run to GVA and CMF are almost exclusively aimed at the ski market and this being their third winter operating such flights, they obviously feel there is a market there.

In terms of the 3m - yes, as I said, it will need more routes. Roughly speaking, I think they'll need about 15-20,000 extra passengers a month through the door between April and December over and above what has already been announced. Depending on size of a/c and frequency of operation a new route could generate monthly passenger volumes of anywhere between 500 (1 x weekly Bergerac) and 10,000 (daily Ryanair to Europe). As they say, there is more than one way to skin a cat. If you are suggesting that bmi might add another Embraer, then that should generate around 4,000 passengers a month - unless of course its a swap for the A319 on the LHR which I wouldn't put past them!

682

[LBIA]

Heres a review off the 44 charter flights currently on sale at the moment by the main tour operators for the Summer 2006 programme from Leeds/Bradford Airport.


Mondays
01,Reus 05:20 AEU901 11:40 AEU902 B737-700
02,Palma 07:05 TOM3347 13:10 TOM3348 B767-200/B757-200
03,Dalaman 09:55 XQ161 08:55 XQ160 B737-800
04,Funchal 12:50 AEU55 23:55 AEU552 B737-700
05,Cyprus Paphos 14:50 TOM1551 01:05* TOM1552 B767-200/B757-200
06,Bourgas 19:10 BGH5576 18:10 BGH5575 A320

Tuesdays
07,Alicante 07:00 TOM1391 13:10 TOM1392 B767-200/B757-200
08,Palma 07:05 AEU917 13:05 AEU918 B737-700
09,Heraklion 14:10 AEU931 23:40 AEU932 B737-700
10,Tenerife South 14:40 TOM6163 00:25* TOM6164 B767-200/B757-200
11,Malta Luqa 17:50 KMC5209 17:00 KMC5208 A320

Wednesdays
12,Mahon 07:30 TOM3133 13:40 TOM3134 B767-200/B757-200
13,Rhodes 08:00 AEU933 17:35 AEU934 B737-700
14,Bodrum 10:00 FRE--- 09:00 FRE--- MD83/A320
15,Fuerteventura 13:30 LTE377 12:30 LTE376 A320
16,Varna 15:10 TOM4673 23:20 TOM4674 B767-200/B757-200

Thursdays
17,Faro 06:00 AEU935 12:40 AEU936 B737-700
18,Palma 07:30 TOM5633 21:20 TOM5634 B767-200/B757-200
19,Arrecife 13:10 LTE908 12:10 LTE907 A320
20,Zakynthos 13:55 AEU907 21:50 AEU908 B737-700
21,Arrecife 14:50 IWD3360 13:50 IWD3359 A320
22,Faro 16:05 FCA2412 13:50 FCA2411 A320

Fridays
23,Ibiza 05:30 AEU923 11:30 AEU924 B737-700
24,Corfu 07:00 TOM6243 14:40 TOM6244 B767-200/B757-200
25,Dalaman 10:25 PGT488 09:30 PGT487 B737-800
26,Mahon 12:30 AEU937 18:30 AEU938 B737-700
27,Tenerife South 13:00 AEA208 12:00 AEA207 B737-800
28,Dalaman 16:10 TOM3193 01:45* TOM3194 B767-200/B757-200
29,Tenerife South 19:30 MYT351 05:10* MYT352 A320
30,Corfu 19:00 AEU--- 03:55* AEU--- B737-700

Saturdays
31,Verona 06:15 AEU581 11:20 AEU582 B737-700
32,Reus 06:50 TOM4973 12:20 TOM4974 B767-200/B757-200
33,Palma 08:45 AEA328 07:45 AEA327 B737-800
34,Alicante 12:20 AEU925 18:30 AEU926 B737-700
35,Malaga 13:50 TOM6051 20:50 TOM6052 B767-200/B757-200
36,Palma 16:45 JKK3328 15:50 JKK3327 MD83
37,Innsbruck 19:10 OS2375 18:30 OS2374 CRJ500
38,Las Palmas 20:15 AEU953 06:00* AEU954 B737-700
39,Ibiza 22:25 TOM3353 04:40* TOM3354 B767-200/757-200

Sundays
40,Palma 07:05 TOM3011 21:00 TOM3012 B767-200/B757-200
41,Malaga 08:00 AEU941 14:50 AEU942 B737-700
42,Malta Luqa 13:30 FHE321 12:30 FHE320 MD90
43,Cyprus Larnaca 15:50 AEU955 04:15* AEU956 B737-700
44,Varna 19:30 BGH5544 18:30 BGH5543 A320

[AlanSinfield]

All very strange regarding the Tenerife flight for Direct holidays (also MYT) on a Friday. In the first brochures there wasn't a flight by AEU at 1930. Then it appeared, so I rebooked onto that flight. I then received a letter from Direct Holidays at the end of November syaing my flight had changed to a AEU flight at 19:30, which is actually what I booked. Now it is stated that the AUE is going to CORFU and replaced by a MYT at the same times???
The only possibility is that the CORFU AEU flight finishes on 21/9 so maybe when I go in October it is back as an AEU?????

[BombardierCR7]

Looks like the gain of the Corfu is unfortunately at the expense of Thomas Cook pulling their allocation on the SO6 Larnaca on to the soon to be announced Helios scheduled Larnaca out of Doncaster

[Flightrider]

Nope. TCX are in fact very well sold on the Sunday LBA-LCA and are not cutting back. If you can't find it on the system, it's probably because their allocation is full on dates in question.

[BombardierCR7]

Yes I have now found it in the system. That means looking at a sample over a number of weeks, especially high season, their allocation looks to be fully booked from LBA. Perhaps this is maybe why they've decided to give it a go from Doncaster aswell.

[SASfox]

Looks like the BJV is back on with Wednesdays AM flights. Never heard of the tour operator though...Goldtrail?

[a bristolian]

Goldtrail

Probably the biggest Independant UK tour operator to Turkey.

whole plane charters driven by price- you will have pax from all over Northern England and good potential for growth.

We @ BRS like them.

Nice people too!

[SASfox]

Thanks Bristolian...sounds promising then. Lets hope that not too many people read the Daily Mail this morning with their headline that anyone stupid enough to holiday in Turkey this year would surley catch bird flu! :\

[NEW-CREW]

Does anybody know who might operate this flight? Nothing on website yet but most flights seem to be operated by Monarch or Freebird. It does mention in plans to use other airlines such as Astraeus, there is a gap on a Wednesday in the AEU schedule so could they be doing it?

[LBA]

Apparantly Freebird using an A320 will be operating the flight, don't see much of a gap in the AEU schedule for them to operate this flight, the aircraft has to have some downtime!

[LBIA]

Hi

Just recived some deatils about the New LBA - Turkey-Bodrum service for Goldtrail Holidays

The flights will infact be operated by Onur Air aircraft. Not as perviously said Freebird Airlines Airbus A320's. So it could be eaither be one of the following types that Onur air operate. 9 x Airbus A300's, 2 x Airbus A320's, 10 x Airbus A321's, & 6 x McDonnell Douglas MD-80/90

[Flightrider]

It's a 321.

[682ft AMSL]

Should add another 8,000 or so to the pax numbers so another small step in the right direction.

Even by their own standards, the timetable for Jet2 is currently significantly below the available capacity offered by a based fleet of 10 so it remains to be seen whether they intend to add further routes or frequencies for the summer season. If the airport has any realistic chance of achieving their stated ambition of 3m pax in '06, this would be seem to present the best opportunity

682

[LBIA]

682ft AMSL: Should add another 8,000 or so to the pax numbers so another small step in the right direction.

Even by their own standards, the timetable for Jet2 is currently significantly below the available capacity offered by a based fleet of 10 so it remains to be seen whether they intend to add further routes or frequencies for the summer season. If the airport has any realistic chance of achieving their stated ambition of 3m pax in '06, this would be seem to present the best opportunity

I was under the impresion that LBA was just to have 9 Jet2.com frames based this summer 2006.

7 x B737-300's and 2 x B757-200's.

So where is the 10th LBA based machine coming from?? As all the exsisting fleet is acounted for at its other bases.

7 x B737-300's MAN (1 leased)
2 x B737-300'S NCL, BFS & BLK
1 x B737-300'S EDI

[LBA]

Could have easily been a typo.

[682ft AMSL]

Based on the schedule they have on sale, then it needs 10 aircraft at certain peak periods in the summer on certain days (Monday and Friday evenings around 17:30 - 18:00). Of course, moving a couple of things back by 20mins here and there could make it all work with 9, so who knows. Even if is 9, there look to be about 30 workable time windows in which someone like Easyjet would be getting another sector out of their kit....and that's at peak season (i.e late May to early Sept).

That said, it's probably unwise at this stage to assume the Jet2 fleet won't be added to before the peak summer period and it's also difficult to tell yet what the requirements are over at MAN given the absence of LGW, AMS, EDI and BUD from the schedule at the moment.

Things may look clearer when the outstanding slot issues are tidied up by the end of the month.

682

[Leodis]

Apparently there are TWO more destinations to come for the Jet2 Leeds base. Yes that is after the Bergamo and Rome announcements and the apparent loss of a Dusseldorf service. Fingers crossed X!

[RobT100]

...........and I heard LPA is HOTLY tipped !

[Leodis]

The cleaners are still saying it's going to be LCA, but what do we know?

[Mr @ Spotty M]

LBIA
Maybe the 3rd B757 which is going to be based in MAN, makes it one less B737 in MAN?

[682ft AMSL]

LPA, LCA etc all sound plausible for W06/07 once the 757s have been released from running up and down to Malaga, Alicante etc and it seems likely there will be more route announcements this year in relation to the next winter programme.

But the issue here is really S06 and I'd be surprised if LCA was announced as a summer route at this stage and even more surprised if LPA was. The excess capacity all sits on the 737 fleet and in particular a number of shortish but workable windows before 11:00. They would suit things like Cork, Jersey or other domestic or near-Europe destinations rather than the Canaries and Cyprus.

682

[Leodis]

.....ie a German route????

[682ft AMSL]

..well if this article in the T&A tonight is anything to go by, someone is having a close look at a German route.

www.thisisbradford.co.uk

Door to Germany set to be opened

by Will Kilner

Plans are in the pipeline to encourage more tourists to Bradford from Germany. A new flight to a major German airport is set to boost business and tourism across the Bradford district. Bosses at Leeds-Bradford Airport are holding `advanced talks' with a well-known airline and details of the flight are set to be announced next month. The flight will allow Yorkshire businessman to fly direct to one of Germany's main economic centres. At the same time, the flight could cash in on the northern European tourism market by enticing German tourists to the region. Ed Anderson, managing director at Leeds Bradford Airport, said: "It will be possible to sell tickets for the new flight at both ends because the Yorkshire Tourist Board is actively encouraging inbound tourism from Germany. "We know a lot of people fly to Germany who originate in Yorkshire but can't fly from their local airport." Mr Anderson said he had been working closely with major airlines to encourage them to introduce more business routes from Leeds-Bradford. We are actively trying to get a service to a major German Airport and we are very close to achieving that, so watch this space. "We would like to see more business routes and Germany is the obvious gap. We're at an advanced stage." It is understood the Yorkshire Tourist board is preparing to market the district to Germany and northern Europe. A spokesman said: "Northern Europe has always been a strong target area for the Yorkshire Tourist Board and we would welcome more flights from Germany." Tricia Tillotson, the Bradford district's tourism information manager, said: "It's very exciting. Leeds-Bradford Airport has been doing a fantastic job bringing people to the area. "This will help bring extra visitors to the district which is fantastic news." Geoffrey Rhodes, of the Shipley-Hamm Twinning Association, said: "Our members have flown out to Germany before and we have had German visitors who have flown here, but they have always had to use Manchester Airport. "If they start a flight from Leeds Bradford Airport, that would definitely be beneficial to us." The Germany flight would be among seven new routes from Leeds Bradford Airport set to be introduced this year.

..the T&A were so moved by the news of a possible German service, they even devoted their 'opinion' column to the story, saying:

There is already a long tradition of bringing German visitors to this city thanks to the efforts of members of twinning associations in Bradford and Shipley, who have reciprocal arrangements with their counterparts in Munchenglad-bach and Hamm to stay in each other's homes on exchange visits. Currently, though, the deterrent to general tourism from Germany is that visitors have to fly to Manchester. Direct flights to Leeds Bradford Airport would enable West Yorkshire to promote itself heavily in that country as a tourist destination. It would also help this region to strengthen business links with Germany, and it would give more German people a chance to see the major contribution their forebears made to a city like Bradford.

[Absolutely Terrific]

Has anyone come up with a new name for LBIA? I seem to remember comment on this a while back. Personally, I favour a slight change to Leeds And Bradford International Airport, L.A.B.I.A. for short. Any comment?

[Leodis]

..well if this article in the T&A tonight is anything to go by, someone is having a close look at a German route.
www.thisisbradford.co.uk
Door to Germany set to be opened
by Will Kilner
Plans are in the pipeline to encourage more tourists to Bradford from Germany. A new flight to a major German airport is set to boost business and tourism across the Bradford district. Bosses at Leeds-Bradford Airport are holding `advanced talks' with a well-known airline and details of the flight are set to be announced next month. The flight will allow Yorkshire businessman to fly direct to one of Germany's main economic centres. At the same time, the flight could cash in on the northern European tourism market by enticing German tourists to the region. Ed Anderson, managing director at Leeds Bradford Airport, said: "It will be possible to sell tickets for the new flight at both ends because the Yorkshire Tourist Board is actively encouraging inbound tourism from Germany. "We know a lot of people fly to Germany who originate in Yorkshire but can't fly from their local airport." Mr Anderson said he had been working closely with major airlines to encourage them to introduce more business routes from Leeds-Bradford. We are actively trying to get a service to a major German Airport and we are very close to achieving that, so watch this space. "We would like to see more business routes and Germany is the obvious gap. We're at an advanced stage." It is understood the Yorkshire Tourist board is preparing to market the district to Germany and northern Europe. A spokesman said: "Northern Europe has always been a strong target area for the Yorkshire Tourist Board and we would welcome more flights from Germany." Tricia Tillotson, the Bradford district's tourism information manager, said: "It's very exciting. Leeds-Bradford Airport has been doing a fantastic job bringing people to the area. "This will help bring extra visitors to the district which is fantastic news." Geoffrey Rhodes, of the Shipley-Hamm Twinning Association, said: "Our members have flown out to Germany before and we have had German visitors who have flown here, but they have always had to use Manchester Airport. "If they start a flight from Leeds Bradford Airport, that would definitely be beneficial to us." The Germany flight would be among seven new routes from Leeds Bradford Airport set to be introduced this year.
..the T&A were so moved by the news of a possible German service, they even devoted their 'opinion' column to the story, saying:
There is already a long tradition of bringing German visitors to this city thanks to the efforts of members of twinning associations in Bradford and Shipley, who have reciprocal arrangements with their counterparts in Munchenglad-bach and Hamm to stay in each other's homes on exchange visits. Currently, though, the deterrent to general tourism from Germany is that visitors have to fly to Manchester. Direct flights to Leeds Bradford Airport would enable West Yorkshire to promote itself heavily in that country as a tourist destination. It would also help this region to strengthen business links with Germany, and it would give more German people a chance to see the major contribution their forebears made to a city like Bradford.

By this you would be inclined to think that a new flight to Germany would be of no relivence to Leeds whatsoever. What do you expect from the T&A?:E

[14 loop]

Come-on this isn't time for in-fighting amongst the different parties that support LBIA. Such coverage in the local press should be welcomed, particularly when the news even makes the editorial comment. We ought to be guessing which airline might be involved!
If EA etc have seen fit to speak to the press, one hopes that they have got this one 'in the bag' and might explain why Jet2 decided not to take up their DUS slots.
14 loop

[G-LOST]

JET2LABIA, I like the sound of that!;)

[14loop]

14 loop.... may i apologise for using a user name so similair to yours,this was in no way intended to use your name in an underhand manner.Unfortunately as with all forums they only tell you if you choose an exact same username and not a very similair name.Once again i apologise for this and have changed to a different username..... hopefully not the same as someone else again......

[14 loop]

14loop - no worries, there are I believe a whole host of LBIA features which are currently vacant wrt to user names!

14 loop

[virginblue]

So can we assume that this elusive German destination is Dusseldorf ? Or has Jet2 ever shown serious interest in another German destination, e.g. Munich ?

[682ft AMSL]

Could be anyone to anywhere really. Some carriers probably carry a greater probability than others as will certain destinations, but I imagine Jet2, bmi or the German low-cost operators are all likely candidates. The suggestion that the airport are involved in fairly lengthy discussions with the operator concerned maybe hints at it being a new relationship rather than growth from an existing operator.

682

[virginblue]

How about Air Berlin then ? They are keen to expand their "UK to Germany/Spain via STN" routes and althiugh after GLA and MAN BFS and EDI have been rumoued to come on line for domestic flights to STN, LBA might be another good guess then. Would give passengers cheap one-stop services to DUS, HAM, HAJ, TXL, FMO, NUE, PMI, ALC plus VIE and possibly ZRH.

[LBIA]

Channel Islands Travel Service & Discover Jersey Holidays are relaunching there weekly charter flights from LBA to Jersey which use to be operated by BA citi express Dash 8 aircraft but has'nt operated for the past 2 years. The flight will be operating from May 20th till September 16th 2006.

The flight is to be NOW operated by Air Southwest with one of there Dash 8-Q300's arriveing LBA at 15:25 as the WOW9300 and then departs LBA bound for Jersey at 16:00 as the WOW9301.

[Jet2LBA]

Having a very good friend who is a LH First Officer and based/lives in FRA, I'd be extremely pleased if this was the soon to be announced German destination. However, LCC flights into FRA are almost as rare as hens teeth and I doubt LH will want to dilute their MAN services by looking at LBA, or allowing bmi to operate the route.

My own opinion, like others here, would be that either DUS or MUC would seem more likely.

[Frankfurt_Cowboy]

BMI (or LH?) to MUC to tap in to the Star Alliance long haul market without diluting the MAN FRA product? I can't see it being any of the german LCC's. Ryanair to Hahn is an interesting possibility. But will probably be Jet2 to DUS or CGN, for a season then never to be seen again.

[682ft AMSL]

I wonder why, when c.80-90% of the passengers passing through Leeds are carried by airlines / tour operators that offer the same routes from MAN, that bmi are so nervous about the dilution of their German routes. Jet2 opened up at MAN post Leeds and obviously felt comfortable their would be no significant dilution; Air Southwest to BRS and most recently FlyBE with SOU. BHD and EXT. Almost the entire tour op market (0.5m pax p/a) is available on the same days, with the same operators ex-MAN. In fact off of the top of my head I think there are only the two Eastern routes, bmi to CDG and BRU and a few Jet2 routes (BCN, MAH, PRG etc) where operators aren't offering the same routes ex-MAN. So why is it such an issue for bmi to Germany?

Equally, doesn't the idea of protectionism only work when there is no realistic chance of another operator coming in and running the route. bmi not flying LBA-DUS to protect LH's MAN-DUS is fine if one is absolutely sure Jet2 or one of the German locos won't wade in and open up LBA-DUS for themselves. If there is dilution, surely better to control it and keep it within the Group rather than being subject to competitive pressures outside of the Group. 5 years ago or so one could feel reasonably comfortable that the prospects of an LBA-German route from outside of bmi/LH were slim, but is that a realistic assessment today? Wouldn't bmi be better sewing up the market for themselves - seems a much better use of Embraers than LBA-ORK, LBA-JER and maybe even LBA-CDG and LBA-BRU.

682

[PTH needs tarmac]

It's also hardly protecting the LH MAN-Germany market when in the absence of an FRA/MUC service from LBA then many travellers take KLM to AMS or bmi to LHR and switch to long-haul there. A 50-seat aircraft should steal more pax from other ex-LBA operators than it should from LH at MAN.

I quite agree with 682 that there are a lot more airline options to negotiate with now than a few years ago. RYR and EZY both have large and rapidly expanding bases in Germany that are looking back towards the UK. I think I will throw the spanner of EZY from Berlin into this discussion at this point. I have no evidence at all but it's one to consider. RYR announced plans for substantial expansion at Hahn recently too I think.

[682ft AMSL]

Maybe of interest to some. From the T&A on Jan 16th.

From his office overlooking the runway at Leeds-Bradford Airport, Ed Anderson reveals how the airport plans to spread its wings. Consultation on the far-reaching masterplan is now at an end and Mr Anderson, the managing director, has been spurred on by public support for proposals to triple passenger numbers, create thousands of extra jobs and pump millions of pounds into the area's economy. He bubbles with excitement as he talks about the prospect of introducing flights to New York, Pakistan and a major German airport as part of ambitious proposals to more than double passenger numbers by 2016.

Expansion of the terminal and a new parallel taxi-way to feed aircraft onto the runway are also in the pipeline so the airport can meet the need for greater passenger and aircraft capacity. Mr Anderson said: "Feedback on the masterplan has been overwhelmingly positive, with 80 or 90 per cent wanting to see the airport expand. Rather than objecting, people are asking for timetables and telling us to put on flights to X, Y and Z." Six new destinations were added to the airport's list in 2005 as passenger numbers increased 10 per cent from 2004 to more than 2.6 million.

But Mr Anderson is clearly eager to entice even more passengers to the airport by adding to the choice of destinations. Another seven routes will be available this year, including flights to Minorca, Pisa, Milan, Rome, Bergerac and Newquay. As the managing director glances out of his window at an aircraft waiting to depart, he reveals that he is confident of being able to watch planes departing for Germany in the near future. Mr Anderson believes it will be possible to sell tickets for the new flight at both ends. And in the longer term, flights to Pakistan and New York are high priorities. "Our ambitions for the future are to get another service to Pakistan. The demographics of West Yorkshire mean such a service is necessary. "During last year we briefly had a flight to Lahore which was exceptionally popular until the airline (Swefly) started struggling. "The other exciting one will be a service to New York. I don't think it's impossible but at the same time, it's not just about to be announced. There are many Yorkshire people who fly to the states but have to go across to Manchester. I'm confident we can bring about the Pakistan and New York flights within the next two or three years." Mr Anderson is aware that improvements in the airport's passenger and aircraft capacity may be necessary. "The terminal has to have the right capacity, we need the right car parking space and there must be enough stands for aircraft to park. We only have one runway, but so does every other airport apart from Heathrow and Manchester. "There will be investment in a parallel taxi way to run parallel to the runway. That is where we can hold aircraft waiting to take off and feed them onto the runway as it becomes vacant. This is a very significant medium-term project which will increase capacity. "Eventually, we will also have to resurface the runway because it's 40 years old. That will be a very big project. "We are going to keep developing the terminal and within a couple of years we will see some investment in the departure lounge which is going to be the next pinch point." The masterplan also includes ideas on how to improve transport links to the airport in the form of a heavy rail link and improved bus and road access. Onlookers have been sceptical about whether funding can be secured, but Mr Anderson remains confident. "As we move forward over the next ten years, service access will be top of our agenda and we have two key proposals in the masterplan. We want a new rail link from just near Horsforth through the airport and on to Guiseley. I think it's realistic." The masterplan also proposes a new road link to the airport from the A65, starting near Rawdon Crematorium. The scheme is part of a study being carried out by Leeds Council into the Outer Ring Road. In the last three years, passenger numbers at Leeds-Bradford have increased by a massive 71 per cent and Mr Anderson has no doubts as to what has brought about the boom. "The key is the arrival of Jet2.com who started in February 2003. Last year, Jet2 had nearly 1.2 million passengers so they now form 40 per cent of our passenger throughput. "They are massively significant in our progress, they have been very successful and they are instrumental in raising the profile of the airport and the area." Mr Anderson said Jet2 sees itself as a leisure airline but he is keen to encourage more business routes. Meanwhile, low-cost airline Flybe said its passenger throughput at Leeds-Bradford increased 71 per cent in December compared with the same period in 2004. Both airlines say the demand from Yorkshire residents with second homes abroad was boosting passenger figures. Mr Anderson said: "Jet2 and Flybe are well tuned in to the demand from people with second homes in Spain and France. We see the same faces coming through the terminal - people who basically live in Spain but haven't sold their homes here. The daily flight to Murcia (Spain) is very popular." Mr Anderson said the Airport masterplan would tie in nicely with economic regeneration schemes (also known as masterplans) in Bradford and the Aire Valley. "We see ourselves in a regional context and the prosperity of the airport is tied up with that of the area. If Airedale is prospering, that's good for us. The fact that Bradford is showing signs of picking up is also good news for the airport. "When we get the results of the Airport masterplan consultation we will amend as necessary but we don't think there will be any major changes." The airport started from humble beginnings as Yeadon Aerodrome in 1931 but, if all goes to plan, it could be welcoming seven million passengers a year by 2030.

www.thisisbradford.co.uk

[L-Band]

Well said inkjet.
There is no way this airport cannot survive without private investment, and a management change.:(

L

[AlanSinfield]

Not sure why private company running the airport is neccessary. Just look at the owenership of Manchester Airport and that has don't too bad!

The Council of the City of Manchester - 55%
The Borough Council of Bolton - 5%
The Borough Council of Bury - 5%
The Oldham Borough Council - 5%
The Rochdale Borough Council - 5%
The Council of the City of Salford - 5%
The Metropolitan Borough Council of Stockport - 5%
The Tameside Metropolitan Borough Council - 5%
The Trafford Borough Council - 5%
The Wigan Borough Council - 5%

[L-Band]

Sorry to be a bit negative, however this subject keeps on popping up and quite frankly is boring! :bored:
Leeds CC cannot get money to build a inner city railway system and improve the infurstructure of the City and the surrounding area,s, so where does the millions required come from to 'tart up' the airport???:(
So come on live in the real world.
L

[virginblue]

Geez, if every airport would make such a fuss about a new German destination...

Why can't they simply let it out ? If nothing has been inked yet, they should keep their mouth shut and should not go on about this "might-happen-or-might-not-happen" new destination for weeks.

[682ft AMSL]

Inkjet / L-Band

What’s the problem? ‘Airport’ improvements fall into two categories. The first are on-site infrastructural improvements that are funded by the airport authority itself. How much gets done and by when is the call of the airport management based on affordability, payback and their ability to secure commercial lending on the strength of the business. This is something the airport in its current capacity has been doing since 1987. The CC haven't put their hands in their pockets since. There will be constraints naturally and a cash rich private investor or one with access to greater commercial lending capability will clearly have different constraints. This is exactly why a project is well underway to investigate selling a majority share in the airport to just such an investor. How much a private operator would be prepared to spend is open to debate but the evidence is out there that many are happy to play the long game on the strength of the catchments and potential of their airports - witness the investment by Peel at Liverpool and Doncaster. LBA is obviously going to be an attractive option for someone and unlike you, I actually think exposure to low cost business is a strength not a weakness. That’s where the market is and there is still upside. MAN has 40/50% of its business in charter traffic. That’s a risk; (a) because the market is shifting away from inclusive tours and (b) because they only achieve that level of charter throughput due to the lack of such services elsewhere in the North. As the market moves away from charter it presents a significant opportunity for other airports to claw lost business back. In August 2000, 2.2m passengers flew between the UK and Malaga. In August 2005, 3.3m flew – growth of 50%. Manchester – Malaga grew by just 3,000 passengers (4%) over the same period. Leeds and Liverpool had stellar growth and basically all the growth in the market to Malaga from the North has gone to airports other than MAN. With MAN still dominant to the Canaries and the Eastern Med, how long before the major low cost airlines, with their big order books, start opening up routes to these places and what opportunities will this offer for growth at LBA, DSA, LPL etc? As to what the size of the on-site investment is, I’m not sure, but as ever Inkjet’s estimates look exaggerated, especially when one considers the quoted cost of £80m to get DSA up and running from a standing start. If someone was prepared to pump that in to something unproven, I would think something with a 3m throughput and well placed to cash in on movements from charter to low-cost will get a fair bit of interest.

The second category of improvements are going to be wider regional transport projects which will obviously not be funded by the airport authority itself, but rather from local / central government if approved. The key thing you’re overlooking here is that the improvements planned offer more holistic benefits of which airport access is only one piece of the jigsaw. There are very real issues with public transport access and road congestion in the NW Leeds / Aireborough area and so you need to think about the bigger picture. For airport link road, read “Yeadon & Rawdon bypass” for airport rail link read “Aireborough park and ride.” I’m not saying they’re certain to happen, just that the cost benefit analysis will done on a much wider remit than airport access alone.

682

[Leodis]

Again 682ft AMSL, such a lovely well balanced approach.

[PTH needs tarmac]

Other airports, eg LPL & LTN, are far more dependent on LCCs than LBA but their private owners/operators have shown that they are willing to invest very large sums of money to improve airport facilities. They are in it for the long run, not just a quick profit and run.

Inkjet - Even on your "pulled from a hat" figures only a small part would be directly the responsibility of the Airport operator, as 682 demonstrates. Many parts of that program (eg parallel taxiway, new terminal) can be done in phases to spread the cost. The current problems of the terminal come from piecemeal development without a clear overall plan and final target. The Masterplan seems to finally address some of these errors.

Leeds Council have just recommended some big improvements on roads around LBA, including the new linkroad to the terminal. No suggestion there of LBA being responsible for paying for those.

The current backlog of expensive things to address at LBA comes from an apparant lack of willingness to take the bigger risks. Development has been too cautious. Perhaps this is down to their limited ability to raise funds (one regional airport by itself is small in company terms) that an established airport operator (a la Peel or Copenhagan Airports) with a more diverse corporate base would have less difficulty in doing so.

[LBIA]

Thomson Holidays have put a 4th weekly Palma service on sale for summer 2006. The new flight will be operated on fridays as follows

Flight BY3511 Departs Leeds Bradford at 16:15 and Arrives at Palma 19:15
Flight BY3561 Departs Palma at 21:30 and Arrives Leeds Bradford at 22:30

Looking at them times they look to be operated by the Based Summer 06aircraft. But this is currentley set to go to Turkey-Dalaman on a Friday eveing. And These flights are still on sale on the thomsonfly website.

So are thomsonfly set to announce that they are dropping there dalaman service. With this new Palma run being a direct replacement service??

If not it ill mean a Second Thomsonfly aircarft will have to posistion into operate it or it will be retimed to be operated on a w-leg from one off the other UK bases.

[PTH needs tarmac]

I doubt the loss of the Thomson LBA-Dalaman will be the last Turkish route that gets cancelled from the UK before the coming summer. The media coverage of Birdflu in Turkey has been a bit too strong for there not to be a neagtive effect on bookings. I was a bit stunned that the Freebird flight was announced at the time it was.

[LBA]

I doubt Dalaman is to be dropped, still on sale on all Thomson websites.

[SASfox]

Lets hope that TUI just swap the flights from TOM to a 737 of PGT or XQ and don't dropped the route altogether.

[qcode]

Regardless of the flight still being advertised to depart from Leeds if it is underbooked then the passengers will be taken by coach to Manchester. It has happened in the past and to be truthfull if the route is not economic then it will happen again. I have heard many reports from people who have booked certain flights purely because they can fly from Leeds only to find out that when they get to the airport to find the flight will be departing from Manchester.

[Jetting2]

Looks as thought bmi have cut the Jersey route. No longer available after 3 Feb.

... one for Flybe to pick up maybe?

[LBIA]

Hi Jetting2

bmi have only cut the route until March 27th due to poor passenger loads. Theres an announcement on the bmi trade website as follows.

LBA - JER cancellation 20.01.06


We have been advised by bmi regional that they have cancelled the following services for the remainder of the winter 2006 season (end date 25Mar06)

This is due to poor loads and is effective from 03 February 2006:

BD1154 LBA -JER dept. 1115 - arr.1235 - days 1 and 5
BD1184 JER-LBA dept..1305 - arr. 1425 - days 1 and 5

*timings are in LOCAL

The service will resume on the 27 March 2006 for the summer season operating Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays.

So it looks like is only going to be 3 times weekly next summer. These Flights are only bookable on the baby site at the moment. No Weekend flights. So that just leaves the Air Southwest charter on a Saturday for summer 2006. Surely this is'nt right??

Last year bmi operated 4 flights on Saturdays and 1 on Sundays with the Embrear 135/145's

[ashmac33]

As regard to the DLM were pretty sure on the thomson desk its still going ahead, we got most of the summer program details through on saturday. No mention of the PMI tho, could be a possible late addition- im not looking forward to having to coach with the passengers to man if this is this case tho, makes the shift very enjoyable haha, get things thrown at you from the back. Email from our manager in Man and were expecting a very busy summer with a near full booking on the flights we handle- im looking forward to it.

ash

[POL1W]

Here's one less for you. Just cancelled is the TUI Varna Bulgaria flight. Gone from the TUI website and also from the LBIA website.

[SASfox]

So 2 of the 3 new routes from TUI this summer have now been scrapped!

[LBIA]

Here's one less for you. Just cancelled is the TUI Varna Bulgaria flight. Gone from the TUI website and also from the LBIA website.

Hi

Guess what. Thomsonfly have replaced the weekly Bulgaria-Varna wednesday flight with a brand new Ibiza wednesday flight operated by the based summer 2006 aircraft. The new Ibiza Flight are now on sale on the thomsonfly website.

Operates as follows

Flight TOM6123 15:05 Depart Leeds Bradford, 18:35 Arrive Ibiza

Flight TOM6124 19:35 Depart Ibiza, 21:10 Arrive Leeds Bradford

[Leodis]

Here's one less for you. Just cancelled is the TUI Varna Bulgaria flight. Gone from the TUI website and also from the LBIA website.

Are you having a laugh. It takes LBIA at Least a month to catch up with whats going on, so I don't think the Varna is cancelled.

:{

[Leodis]

Hmmm I stand corrected!

Looks like Thomsonfly are getting a little annoyed at the success of Jet2 at Leeds maybe. I feel this has possibly been the plan all along, to flood and dilute the Leeds market making the Jet2 service less viable? Send the Varna and Dalaman passengers to Manchester or the new baby at Donny to ensure that there services are full. Just blame the Leeds passenger loads as per usual.

Thomsonfly up to the same old tricks yet again. I'm flying with the other lot from LEEDS this year thank god.:E

[RobT100]

Hmmm I stand corrected!
Looks like Thomsonfly are getting a little annoyed at the success of Jet2 at Leeds maybe. I feel this has possibly been the plan all along, to flood and dilute the Leeds market making the Jet2 service less viable? Send the Varna and Dalaman passengers to Manchester or the new baby at Donny to ensure that there services are full. Just blame the Leeds passenger loads as per usual.
Thomsonfly up to the same old tricks yet again. I'm flying with the other lot from LEEDS this year thank god.:E

I have said it before and I'll say it again "Im pig sick of Thomsons at LBA". What is their problem ? I agree with Leodis, they could be playing sinister tricks on the customers. A big marketing campaign arrived to tell us (in may) last year that good old Thomsons were stepping up their presence at the airport by 34% and how they love to "offer local people the chance to travel to areas which are becoming increasingly popular holidays destinations.”
What a joke.
What about the pax that have already booked ? - I knew one who had booked Gran Canaria in feb - who has now been told he has to find his way to DSA, charmin, eh :mad:
Pax should be aware of what may happen and be advised to maybe choose their flights with care.

[Leodis]

I have said it before and I'll say it again "Im pig sick of Thomsons at LBA". What is their problem ? I agree with Leodis, they could be playing sinister tricks on the customers. A big marketing campaign arrived to tell us (in may) last year that good old Thomsons were stepping up their presence at the airport by 34% and how they love to "offer local people the chance to travel to areas which are becoming increasingly popular holidays destinations.”
What a joke.
What about the pax that have already booked ? - I knew one who had booked Gran Canaria in feb - who has now been told he has to find his way to DSA, charmin, eh :mad:
Pax should be aware of what may happen and be advised to maybe choose their flights with care.

Totally agree RobT100, but no doubt someone will soon say its all a rubbish.

Thomsonfly wouldn't do that...... or would they???? I think so.

[PTH needs tarmac]

We all know it's been happening for years and not always because the LBA flight is selling poorly, rather it can be the MAN, or now DSA, flights that was underbooked but as those are the larger bases, then flights get amalagamated to there rather than LBA. Thousands must have been affected by this trick over the years. That two out of three of the proudly announced new destinations for Summer 2006 have already been scrapped is pretty poor. What was the third one?

Inkjet, I agree JER has declined as a destination with the rise of the LCCs flying to Med resort areas. However, the "nearly deads" still like Jersey, but are not yet so soft in the head that they can't tell the difference between the price from LBA with bmi and that from DSA with Thomsonfly.

PTH

[Flightrider]

I can't talk for LBA-DLM or anything else, but the LBA-Varna flight was 6% sold for the full season at the end of December. That accounts for 14 passengers per flight on a 235-seater. On that basis, I think it is a little wide of the mark to indulge in conspiracy theories that the route was pulled to support other flights ex MAN or DSA; very few passengers had booked on it anyway. Can we therefore get over this particular discussional speedbump and move on?

[RobT100]

I can't talk for LBA-DLM or anything else, but the LBA-Varna flight was 6% sold for the full season at the end of December. That accounts for 14 passengers per flight on a 235-seater. On that basis, I think it is a little wide of the mark to indulge in conspiracy theories that the route was pulled to support other flights ex MAN or DSA; very few passengers had booked on it anyway. Can we therefore get over this particular discussional speedbump and move on?

Ok flightrider, Varna was only 6% sold, do u have figures on how many of the other destinations were sold at the end of dec for comparison ? I dont know many who have hols booked by end of dec in this day and age - or maybe Im from another planet :)

Paphos is the other destination, how long before that 'goes west' as well ?

[Flightrider]

Significantly better - you would normally expect to be between 25% and 40% sold by that time.

And by the way, the Varna flight has been replaced with another LBA-Ibiza on Wednesday slot 2.

[POL1W]

Just to add some interesting figures regarding the TUI LPA flight from LBA which has been cancelled from JAN for the remainder of the winter, and pax told to make their way to DSA.
In DEC 2237 pax used the LBA/LPA flight. that's 95% sold on a weekly 757.
In DEC 2193 pax used the DSA/LPA flight, thats 77% sold on a twice weekly 737-800.
And they cancelled the LBA flight?
Does that make sense?
Figures from CAA website.

[Leodis]

To throw a spanner into the works isn't it the Thomson Bodrum flight that is cancelled not the Dalaman?

Other than that Thomson are up to the same old dirty tricks, with the same old excuses.

[14 loop]

Not discounting stories of Thomson & LPA etc.....

.....I think Flightrider has made a clear point, the Varna wasn't selling well (it would be interesting to see a comparison with Balkan Holidays' relative prices / sales etc) so they've **rightly** canned the flight and replaced it with something else (IBZ) that should sell better.

**rightly** = if it was your business wouldn't you look to alter your product range to improve sales???

As Flightrider says lets move on!! Now....discussions about ORK & JER moving to a loco operator sounds far more interesting.

14 loop

[Leodis]

14 Loop. Fair point, doesn't say a lot for the airlines route development team though does it?:rolleyes:

I really feel the time has come for BMI to look at low cost services from LBA. Services to JER, CDG and ORK would probably all operate better on the low cost model. If the airline fails to realise this, they are going to continue to loose their ever reducing passenger loads to MAN and DSA.:8

[LBA]

To throw a spanner into the works isn't it the Thomson Bodrum flight that is cancelled not the Dalaman?
Other than that Thomson are up to the same old dirty tricks, with the same old excuses.

Both the Dalaman and the Bodrum flights have been canned!

[HOODED]

Not really canned just booked from LBA and then transferred to MAN or DSA to fill their flights. The usual TUI ploy from LBA in action again, only difference is there are now 2 places to fill flights using LBA booked pax not just 1. Wonder why I stopped using BY years ago after having my flight cancelled and offered one from MAN 2 years running. Still maybe they've done me a favour I now book Jet2 and sort my own accomm and car. Works out cheaper too.

[Nostrils]

You know it's terribly frustrating.....

I live three miles from Gatwick, my family live two miles from Leeds/Bradford, yet I have to suffer the pain of a long drive to Heathrow. I suppose I could get the train to Heathrow... Oh no, wait, I can't do that, there's no direct service.

Bah!

Is there any prospect of getting a service operating between Leeds and Gatwick before the end of 2006?

[RobT100]

Significantly better - you would normally expect to be between 25% and 40% sold by that time.
And by the way, the Varna flight has been replaced with another LBA-Ibiza on Wednesday slot 2.

"Significantly better" - I take it you dont have the figures for the other flights then flightrider ?? Educated guess, huh?
So tell me another one, what are the bookings like for IBZ and PMI to warrant 2 extra flights ?
Someones kidding us here and No I will not move on from this, I think customers should know not to deal with Thomson from LBA.

[Flightrider]

You asked a question and got a straight answer. I have the figures for the whole lot and the Varna stood out because it was so low. Posting the full set of figures here is a different matter and it is unreasonable to post non-publicly available data into a forum such as this, hence why the answer you got was a more general one.

When you have some more idea of how the industry works, perhaps you will cease to look for conspiracy theories around every corner. They have tried to put on a new route; all indications were that it was not going to work. Would you rather that they persevered with it and lost a fortune in doing so? Comedian.

[ManchesterMan]

Get your family to hop on a train to Manchester and
get the Jet2 flight to Gatwick.

With any luck they might be able to get a straight
through train to the airport.

Its only half an hour by train methinks.....

Problem solved!

MM

[GrahamK]

If Thomson were so unhappy with LBA why would they put a 757/767 in there when they could put a 733 or 738 instead?

The anti-Thomson brigade at LBA on these forums are getting a wee bit boring now, Tour Ops drop destinations if flights aren't selling well, after all they are a business trying to survive in a harsh environment. If it means more money consolidating at one airport, then so be it.

[Jet2LBA]

RE: JER and ORK services.

Bmi fares are completely uncompetitive to JER and ORK from LBA in comparison to WW's fares at MAN and TOM's from DSA (to JER). Why pay £130 return when you can get the same flights at £35 return an hour down the motorway, with better frequencies?

Whilst I'm sure Jet2 could offer lower fares on these routes, a 733 would likely restrict the frequency they could operate viably to maybe 3 or 4 times weekly, even during the summer. For a competitive year-round schedule, I'd prefer to see Air Southwest take the intiative as their fare structure and efficient Dash 8's would possibly offer a better opportunity at maintaining a daily, year-round schedule to ORK whilst JER could be daily during the summer with a reduced frequency during winter.

[felixflyer]

Nostrils

Would it be easier for you to get to southampton and fly from there?

I think southampton has a train station on the mainline.

[EESDL]

Nostrils

You gatwick boys can afford to rent a chopper - we're based at LBA - you know it makes sense!

[682ft AMSL]

Get your family to hop on a train to Manchester and
get the Jet2 flight to Gatwick.
With any luck they might be able to get a straight
through train to the airport.
Its only half an hour by train methinks.....
Problem solved!
MM

half an hour from where? The straight through transpennine express service from Leeds to MAN takes 1h.20m.

682

[qcode]

Found out today that a friend was supposed to fly from LBA to somewhere in the canaries. When arrived at LBA they were told that they were flying from DSA given a taxi ride for the inconvenience plus £100.

[airhumberside]

Will be Gran Canaria

[RobT100]

Just to add some interesting figures regarding the TUI LPA flight from LBA which has been cancelled from JAN for the remainder of the winter, and pax told to make their way to DSA.
In DEC 2237 pax used the LBA/LPA flight. that's 95% sold on a weekly 757.
In DEC 2193 pax used the DSA/LPA flight, thats 77% sold on a twice weekly 737-800.
And they cancelled the LBA flight?
Does that make sense?
Figures from CAA website.

So come on then flightrider, haven't you got an answer for this then ?

BTW GrahamK, keep your nose out, Ill talk about Thomson and LBA as much as I want

[HOODED]

RobT100, I'll second that. Why did Thompsons cancel the LBA flight not the DSA ones? Hmmn oh yes DSA must be a success as Thompsons have moved in and based multiple ac there so we can't be seen to have made a poor decision can we?! LBA is a crappy airport anyway, on a hill with low cloud and fog and a runway 90 degrees out of wind. DSA however only needs a CAT 1 ILS on one end as it's never foggy! and it's runway is, oh yes 90 degrees out of wind too!

Still at least Thompsons have a reasonable presence now in one Yorkshire airport sadly just not the one nearest the main Yorkshire conurbations.

[ManchesterMan]

Ive just checked and it appears we are both wrong!!!!

The average time for the journey appears to be 1Hr (+/-).

(National rail enquiries)


MM

[RobT100]

RobT100, I'll second that. Why did Thompsons cancel the LBA flight not the DSA ones? Hmmn oh yes DSA must be a success as Thompsons have moved in and based multiple ac there so we can't be seen to have made a poor decision can we?! LBA is a crappy airport anyway, on a hill with low cloud and fog and a runway 90 degrees out of wind. DSA however only needs a CAT 1 ILS on one end as it's never foggy! and it's runway is, oh yes 90 degrees out of wind too!
Still at least Thompsons have a reasonable presence now in one Yorkshire airport sadly just not the one nearest the main Yorkshire conurbations.

Thanks HOODED, and while were at it how about Mr Flightrider letting us know the figures at the end of Dec for Bulgaria and Dalaman bookings at DSA in comparison with those from LBA ?


Now that would be interesting

[682ft AMSL]

Ive just checked and it appears we are both wrong!!!!
The average time for the journey appears to be 1Hr (+/-).
(National rail enquiries)
MM

MM -It's an hour to Manchester (Pic) from Leeds but I assure you the direct trains to Manchester Airport take, on average 1h: 20m. Check NRE again.

As for Robt and Hooded - come on boys, it's not a playground, it's business. I imagine TUI haven't the faintest interest in airport A being bigger or better than airport B and this will not be a motivating factor in their planning. The fact is that TUI have, initially, a 290 seat a/c in Leeds and a 189 seater in DSA. If the projected forecasts for seat bookings to say DLM are that 120 will be sold ex-Leeds and 69 ex-DSA, then it makes commercial sense to consolidate the flight onto the DSA machine and send it out full rather than consolidate into Leeds and send it out 65% full. Arguably the right commercial decision even though Leeds has outsold DSA by 30%.

The question for TUI surely is whether basing 2 smaller aircraft at Leeds would give them the operational flexibility to serve thinner routes whilst still being able to maintain 767 capacity levels by operating a higher frequency on the proven 'thick' routes.

682

[HOODED]

682, a balanced and well thought out post as always. Perhaps my frustration with Thompsons is starting to show. Surely though there must be greater cost in moving the larger amount of people from airport A to airport B than moving less people from airport B to A. Lets not forget they are also anoying more customers this way and many, like me will never use them again after being bitten by this more than once. What price a loyal customer base? The movement from IT to buld your own using a LoCo's is not going to be helped by doing it this way!:hmm:

[Buster the Bear]

I guess with the low fees being paid to Peel for operations from DSA, to consolidate the flight from Doncaster makes financial sense for TUI?

[Leodis]

I just thought i'd point out that only the Cyprus Thomson flight was advertised in the latest LBAirmail. That advertisement must have been finalised at least two months ago, so they must have known much earlier that the other flights would be cancelled. Infact I would even say that they planned to cancel them right from the word go. They even have the cheek and mordacity to have an advert on the terminal front saying "your holiday starts here!" So who's kidding who?



Leodis.:8

[RobT100]

I just thought i'd point out that only the Cyprus Thomson flight was advertised in the latest LBAirmail. That advertisement must have been finalised at least two months ago, so they must have known much earlier that the other flights would be cancelled. Infact I would even say that they planned to cancel them right from the word go. They even have the cheek and mordacity to have an advert on the terminal front saying "your holiday starts here!" So who's kidding who?
Leodis.:8
Well pointed out Leodis, now doesn't that say something folks ?
Thomson's are :mad:

[Leodis]

Or perhaps Thomson's have paid for the sign to welcome all the Jet2 passengers?:}

[wawkrk]

Why not divert the empty TUI flights from DSA through LBA to collect the bulk of their passengers?

[RobT100]

Why not divert the empty TUI flights from DSA through LBA to collect the bulk of their passengers?

Perhaps DSA is not the sucess story that people thought it would be so now they are resorting to picking off LBA pax, therefore bulking up the figures by default.

[coasting]

DSA has to work and it will be made to at the expense of LBA and HUY. Too many politicians and companies that invested in the venture will lose money and face if it doesn't. Although as a last resort Peel could probably turn it into another shopping centre which is far more lucrative for them.
DSA (Doncaster-Sheffield) as the name implies is not attracting the half million or so Sheffield pax, who appear to be sticking with NEMA which is obviously easier to get to, and MAN which has the destinations.
TUI have too much invested in DSA to let their operation fail, but there surely comes a point at the end of the year when although the pax loads on the Med IT's look OK, the yields from them were low, just to get the pax on the seats., and they may decide to cut back even more than they have done already. The Tax that TUI add to their DSA flights is extremely high too at £23.50 per person, per flight, when LBA is only £12 with Jet 2, and £15 from MAN. Why is this?
The Easy GVA is carrying loads of 30 and 40 a flight, which can't be sending them signals for a return next winter or indeed add new flights for the future.
At the end of the day, LBA has a great future and more expansion to come taking their 2.6 million pax well over 3 million and beyond, even with its poor range of IT flights especially in the winter months.
I just need that Jet 2 LGW/MAN flight switching to LBA where it would far better serve the South East, instead of competing with BA. On a route they are losing hands down to BA at the moment from MAN.

[spanishflea]

LBA-LGW that would be a godsend. Sadly it has to compete with bmi, FlyBe to Southampton, as well as the train, so I cant see it happening soon :(

[HOODED]

DSA's EZY to Geneva is carrying 30-40 on a 737 you're joking! Can't see EZY sticking with that if true. Anyone know what loads Jet2 are carrying ex LBA on the Geneva?

[MerchantVenturer]

CAA provisional stats for December show 2509 sched pax travelled on the DSA-GVA route and 2939 sched pax on the LBA-GVA route that month.

I don't know whether these routes were operated for the whole of December and/or whether they are daily.

Anyone with a knowledge of the number of rotations flown that month can easily work out the average load.

As a comparison the BOH-GVA easyJet route that started for the first time in mid-December carried 3529 sched pax and the established BRS-GVA easyJet route (single daily but double-daily from mid December) carried 10,957 pax.

This might suggest that a regular sched GVA from regional airports can work once it starts to become known.

[gary4444]

DSA's flight only started from Dec 15th compared to LBA's which is not a brand new route. I think some people are trying to be negative towards DSA just for the sake of it.

[airhumberside]

The EZY online summer timetable shows no DSA-GVA flights after 23rd April

[Buster the Bear]

easyJet operate quite a number of seasonal routes to Geneva for the ski season.

With regard to Manchester London link:

Lon-Man market tilts in Virgin's favour

27 Jan 2006
Virgin Trains has seen its share of the London-Manchester air/rail market jump from 40% to 60% since the introduction of its high-speed ‘Pendolino’ services in Sept04, reports the Guardian.

The tilting trains are able to cover the 184 miles in two hours and six minutes at an average speed of 88mph, cutting about 35 minutes from the journey time.

In Sept04 Virgin carried 168,585 passengers between Manchester Piccadilly and London Euston, but by Oct05 – the latest month for which figures are available – this had increased by 96% to 221,783. In contrast figures from the Civil Aviation Authority show the number of air passengers travelling between the two cities declined by 6.2% over the same period from 168,585 to 158,259.

The biggest drop was seen on VLM’s Manchester-London City service, which lost 30% of its passengers between Sept04 and Oct05. bmi reported a decline of 26% to 35,867 passengers, while British Airways’ Manchester-Gatwick service is down 4.8% at 33,433 and Manchester-Heathrow down 1.8% at 68,939.

To celebrate taking the lead over the airlines, Virgin Trains this week announced it would give out 10,000 complimentary first-class tickets, which usually cost about £311 each, to any airline passenger producing a used London-Manchester boarding pass.

Airlines have reacted angrily to the move. ‘Is it right that a rail operator which receives about £90m of taxpayers’ money should be giving away £3m?’ the Guardian quotes a BA spokesman, who added that the carrier would be ‘fighting tooth and nail’ to keep the route.

A bmi spokesman admitted its Manchester-London service, which is vital as a feeder onto its other routes, was suffering. ‘We can’t deny passenger numbers are down – we’re matching that by reducing capacity,’ he said. But he also pointed out that the fall was from an unusually high market share captured by the airlines during severe disruptions on the rail network. ‘There was a very inflated peak of passengers who came over to the airlines when the west coast line was suffering badly [in 2004]. Now that work’s finished, a lot of people are naturally drifting back to the trains.’

However all is not lost for the airlines, concludes the Guardian, with the railways’ National Passenger Survey, published this week, showing that while 80% of travellers were satisfied with Virgin’s punctuality, just 53% were happy with the trains’ toilets and 49% with the way the company handles delays.

[LBIA]

Hi

airhumberside: DSA's flight only started from Dec 15th compared to LBA's which is not a brand new route. I think some people are trying to be negative towards DSA just for the sake of it.

Both The Geneva and Chambery ski flights operated by Jet2.com started on the Thursday, December 17th, 2005.

Geneva has been operated in the past by Jet2.com from Leeds in the winter 2003/04 and 2004/05 seasons. It only runs between the months of December and April. Chambery was a new destination for this winter with Jet2.com from both Leeds and Manchester.

Hope this clears up your problems mate.

[LBA]

Surely the Jet2 service from LBA should have higher pax figures, it runs twice daily on certain days!

Is the low figures because the route started halfway through the month? The DSA figures don't look bad at all actually.

[HOODED]

LBIA, Dec 17 was a Saturday. Given LBA/GVA is daily except Sat when it's double daily and assuming No flight on Dec 25th that makes 17 flights.Ave per flight would be 173 per flight! If however you include the GVA/LBA pax in those figures it would be a more sensible 86. Jet2 may have used a 757 on some flights though. Too many assumptions here, however, which ever way you look at it I doubt DSA is doing as well as LBA at the moment on this route. To be fair, it is a new route compared to LBA who had Jet2 on it last year. :ok:

[POL1W]

I believe it is the Jan figures on the DSA/GVA which are not too good, usually the non-weekend ones. The Dec figures look not too bad really for half a months flights.