AC New Hirees as 320 FOs

[alwaysflying]

Hi I just read a post on avacanada stating that due to reduced bids on the 320 for FO's recently the next new hirees may be on the 320. Is there any truth in this ?

AC has so far hired 55 people this yr, when is the next course to begin, I thought the plan was for 2 courses a month begining July.

Meuw and Brucelee please throw some light and give some info like always.

Thanks

[brucelee]

Alwaysflying.
I am not able to confirm the rumor but here's an excerpt from our flt ops webs site which you probably don't have access to:

Oct 4.
"YESTERDAY LETTERS WERE SENT TO THE PILOTS WHO WERE SELECTED FOR OUR NEXT NEW HIRE COURSE, PLANNED FOR OCTOBER 24TH. DESTINED FOR EMBRAER TRAINING, THIS BRINGS TO 61 THE NUMBER OF PILOTS HIRED SINCE JULY. THE NEXT COURSE IS PLANNED TO COMMENCE ON NOVEMBER 7TH AND WILL COMPRISE OF 19 PILOTS.

ON A RELATED ISSUE, CAPTAIN BOB CLARKE, RETIRED A330/340 CHIEF PILOT, HAS AGREED TO ASSIST WITH THE NEW HIRE SELECTION PROCESS IN THE SAME MANNER AS DAVE LEGGE HAS BEEN OVER THE PAST EIGHT MONTHS."

Hope this helps a bit.

[herc driver]

Brucelee:

Thanks for that. I have cut & pasted your post and sent this on to a couple of guys/friends at work who are waiting for the "call" or the "letter".

Cheers

[alwaysflying]

Thanks Brucelee for the info, I will be sleeping by the mailbox for the nxt few days.

I am wondering that with all the ERJ's coming in there would be upward movement across all fleets at AC i.e from 320 FO upwards, then who is presently filling in the vacancies arising at the lower end-- 320 FO and the RP positions.

With all induction as EMB FO will it happen that in a few months time these new guys will land up bidding for 320 FO slots that come up ?? Is there a time restriction after one joins to participate in the bidding process ??

Due to the above I kind of believed when I read that the company might sent the new guys straight to 320s rather than keep training ...... But who knows ?

Once again Meaw and Brucelee some info please !!

[brucelee]

The company has hired direct entry 767 fo's, 320 fo's and even direct entry RJ captains in the past. Timing is everything I guess. I don't see that happening right now but one never knows what the near future holds. Look at it this way, with 600 + to be hired within the next two years, it is likely that most if not all Emb fo's will be 320 fo's or widebody RP's in a couple years if not sooner. There are two equipment bids every year. Many have said it's not the job it used to be. I tend to see still as a great oppurtunity.

[Saltaire]

Although this happened in the past and could happen in the future, my understanding that the new "pay group" will be for new hires and consist of EMB fo's and RP's only. This will be the high probability position for a new joiner.

[oldebloke]

Whats happened in the past is that the training lines,per type jam up,and they deflect the next courses onto available training eguipement(CBT's SIMs etc),ergo some people are 'out of seniority' for a while..A couple of equipement BIDS will straighten it out...(pay's the same):ok:

[29chev]

The only prob is in the Pay Group LOU(forget the number) it states that all new hires and recalls must join the company via the PG which is emb f/o, 340 or 767 rp, or crj f/o (but as the crj's will be gone by spring as such they are not training on that type) ....so unless the company requests a change to the PG LOU that is where you will start.
29

[brucelee]

Bid 05/01 showed a shortage of about 40 A320 fo's. As far as I know they are still short despite some RJ pilots getting trained back on the bus. If the next bid still shows a shortage of fo's on the bus and they can't fill that void, they will have to change things and get new hires to fill those positions. Hopefully they learned a lesson last summer and will not repeat it next summer. It may be a long shot, but certainly an option. Those new hires would probably be in the pay group even though they sit on the 320. Prsonally, I don't see a big difference in lifestyle between the Emb and the Bus, especially when the 190's arrive. The only difference I see is the cold meals on the Embs. You'll still fly 85 hrs and work about 17 days a month sitting at the bottom of the list.:*

[Lost in Saigon]

It will require MAJOR changes to the Position Group LOU to have direct entry 320 F/O's.

But maybe that is what will happen with the forced arbitration ACPA just agreed to.

[alwaysflying]

If they include the 320 FO in the position group it would be hitting below the belt for the new hirees.................

I wish someone at ACPA feels the need for the new hirees to get a decent start. 37K for a start at AC really sucks and rather that saying that till they get the people nothing will change. Let me say that those on the outside want a step in the door and will keep coming, but the experience and quality will may not be in a position to take the cut, but there will always be someone to fill in.

Similarily how about checking if u get wide body DEC for half of what they make at AC I am sure there will be loads of apps for a Capts psn on the 340 at 120k, that does not mean that the company should reduce the pay for those that r there.

Dont get me wrong guys but there is only so much the company can squeeze out of the new Hirees and once that is done it will be the turn of those inside. So the whole thing is to protect the guy at the Bottom of the list everyone above will be saved automatically.

By the way any idea when were the guys who started at the Sept course interviewed and those for Oct / Nov when did they get interviewed. Its been over six weeks for me and no news ??

[Lost in Saigon]

Don't blame Air Canada for Position Group and poor starting pay.

The blame is with ACPA (and before that CALPA) who seem to thrive on selling out their junior members.

Starting pay, flat salary, and position group is negotiated into the contract. Senior pilots have the attitude that junior pilots must pay their dues. And the tradition seems to continue.........

Position Group was invented by ACPA and then presented to Air Canada as a way to fix some pay/seniority problems for RJ F/O's that were stuck on the RJ out of seniority.

Only now it seems to have created more problems than it fixed.

[R8TED THRUST]

I don't uderstand why everyone worries so much about the pay group!!!! Any new hire should be out of it within 3 years tops and that is assuming that there is no wage re-opener next year!!! The future for AC is extreamly promissing and remember it is all supply and demand there will be lots of mony to go arround!