just started flying, is it enough?

[cessnasey]

hi all, im new here and wow, so much info on this forum.

i recently had my intro lesson at biggin and plan to take it further, i earn an average wage and this hobby is gonna be hard to fund but im so hooked and have always wanted to learn to fly so il have to eat sandwiches while the lads eat curry, drink water while the lads drink beer and stay home at the weekends while they go out! (ok ok, not quite that bad!).

however its so worth it but still i can only afford a lesson every 2 weeks, is this regular enough to stay in practice?

it will take me atleast a couple of years to complete the course this way but its better than not flying at all right.

and my second question is does flying get cheaper after you gain the licence?

thanks and sorry if these questions have all been asked before, i did browse through the archives but couldnt find anything on these.:ok:

[foxmoth]

Flying only every 2 weeks will not help, you may be better to save up a bit and then do a chunk to start, also, this time of year can be frustrating wx wise so if you waited until about May and saved up for 10-12 hours this would give you a good grounding and the wx would be getting more reliable, you may then need to drop back to your 2 weekly programme but at least you will get a good grounding, if you do this you will then notice the slow down in your progress.
Flying does get cheaper after the licence, for a start you are not paying dual (instructional rates) all the time, but also if you can afford to buy into a group (can be quite cheap with a PFA type and a large group) you will find your costs can come down considerably.

[cblinton@blueyonder.]

Welcome aboard:ok:

A lesson every 2 weeks will be just fine, you can do your ground study in between and learn that way too.

It really depends how far you intend to take your flying but it generally gets more expensive when you gain your ticket, the only advantage being your mates can chip in to the cost.

Keep at it and stay keen.

Most of all have fun;)

[Gertrude the Wombat]

A possible alternative is to save up for a few weeks and then have several lessons closer together; you'll have spent less time overall getting back to where you were.

And it can get cheaper after you've got your licence. For example if you rent the same aircraft from the same club the hourly rate for solo hire is probably a little less than for lessons; and you can simply fly less often of course, once every three or four weeks is sufficient to remain current according to many club rules (but not according to the millionaires here who will pop up in a minute and say you're not safe if you're doing less than 200 hours a year). Also there are cheaper aircraft than public CofA trainers.

[tacpot]

Flying once every two weeks is enough to kep you safe, once you have qualified, but you'll find your progress is slow, learning at that rate.

It does get a little bit cheaper once you have qualifed - no instructor to pay for! However you might like to fly for more than an hour at a time, so the cost might go up!

Good luck,

tp

[cessnasey]

thanks for the fast and valuable replies:ok:

maybe i should hold on a little more till may to get regular flying but uptill then surely a lesson a fortnight cant be bad :D

again thanks.

[TJF97]

Also Biggin is not the cheapest place to learn, the landing fee's are scandalous!

There are places nearby that are a little bit cheaper for lessons.

[Whirlybird]

I think you'll get as many different replies as there are people on this forum, but never mind - being a pilot is about learning to look at all the facts and then make decisions as much as it is about learning to manipulate the flight controls.

There are two ways of looking at this...

1) You can only afford one lesson every two weeks, but you want to learn to fly now. OK, so do it that way. Your progress will most likely be slower than someone having more lessons, as you'll forget things in between lessons. OTOH, you'll have time to read all the books, pass all the exams, spend time talking to pilots, and learning a lot of useful stuff that others won't have time for. You can hang around the flying club, get to know people, maybe get taken on some flights. It may take you a couple of years, but they'll be good years, and you'll have something to look forward to every two weeks.

2) You can save up, and then do it. It will probably take you less time in actual flying hours. But you won't be able to do a lot of the above. Yes, you can study and pass the exams first, but a lot of the theory makes more sense if you're doing some flying. And will it be as much fun as having a regular but occasional lesson to look forward to? Only you know that.

So, you see, it's your choice.

As for after you get your PPL - you can spend more, or less. Hourly hire rates are cheaper, certain aircraft types are cheaper, more experience means you can leave longer gaps without your skills degrading so much. But you'll get bored, possibly, with short flights in the same area, and you may want to do more, and spend more.

Again, it's up to you. But being a pilot is about making your own decisions...as I said at the start. And sometimes learning to do that is the hardest part of learning to fly. :eek:

[MyData]

A lesson every two weeks is a quite sufficient target to aim for. That's been my experience to date and I've just completed my qualifying cross country on 44 hours. I had my first lesson on 2nd May LAST YEAR. So thats 44 hours in about 75 weeks, about 0.6 hours per week, or just over 1 hour every fortnight.

In this time I've had a regular Sunday slot booked EVERY week without fail except for holidays. I've also taken the odd extra lesson on a Saturday or Bank Holiday Monday.

In this country what will really hit you will be the weather. You can go weeks without getting into the sky and then you might have 3 or 4 consecutive weekends of activity.

I'm in absolutely no hurry to get my PPL - i.e. not doing this as a means to get a job - and so I can take my time.

In the down time you will have the opportunity to read the theory and sit the exams - I took the first 10 months to complete them. Leaving the R/T practical until I had more airtime this summer.

To sum up - it might be worth booking a regular weekly slot and seeing how you go. You may end up with a lesson every two weeks on average which will help with the cash flow. But then you also have to be prepared for the times when it all goes very well and you get a hefty demand from the flying school in one big invoice. I hadn't been up since 28th August until this last weekend - then I managed to get 4.1 hours in. Which was great until I got the bill - ouch!

Enjoy!

[drauk]

Have you looked in to learning in the USA? If you're careful it can certainly be cheaper; you won't save loads, but you might save something and learning in a very short space of time is generally the quickest way in terms of total number of hours flown (and hours cost money).

Once you've qualified, as others have said, flying can get much much cheaper - it depends largely on what you want to fly and where you are (i.e. what group aircraft are available in your area).

Having said all that, as someone else said, if once a fortnight is the only way you can do, do it and enjoy it. But book more slots than once a fortnight otherwise the weather could dictate that you don't fly for a couple of months and that would be a pain.

[Piltdown Man]

I used to know of several people who were once in your position. Some gave up (I don't think you will!), most got their licences - eventually and others tried other forms of aviation. But most interestingly (for me) was that of those who actually got their licences, they gave up shortly afterwards as well. What they hadn't done is work out what they wanted from flying. May I suggest that you work that out first. The PPL is the ticket to enable you to fly, not the reason. The activities available include touring, rallying, aerobatics, racing, vintage, tail-dragging, photography etc. For myself, I got a PPL to expand my gliding knowledge (weird I know!) and ended up tugging. If you work that out, then you will know whether your investment will be worthwhile.

Best of Luck.

PM

[cessnasey]

wow, you all bring many good points to my attention.

1. what do i want from my flying?

well if it wasnt for the fact that im colour blind, its my dream to be an airline pilot. iv always been obsessed with flying and only now (finished studying and got a job) is it possible to live that dream with general aviation and light aircraft. i had 2 colour vision tests at gatwick and failed both so....

flying for fun is unfortunatly all i can do. i cant fly at night even with a PPL and my licence shall have restrictions because im colour deficiant.

2. can i really afford this?

within limits yes. enough to get a tast for flying anyway! even if i end up having to give it up in near future because of financial issues, hopefully one day il be in a financialy secure position and will be able to use the licence more effectively huh! so im sure getting the licence wont be for nothing. hey if nothing else, its a great life experience!

3. train abroad for less??

iv looked into this, when you add it all up its not as beneficial as it sounds! how about money id lose for time of work? that alone gets you close to the difference of flying in the uk! also i believe for safety purposes learning to fly in the uk is probably better as this way id know the uk traffic as i hear it varys from that abroad. also tickets, transport, acommadation...

4.biggins expensive, good idea to look around...

oh my indeed! checked some other schools off the m25, what is biggin thinking? why is cabair so expensive? forgive me if iv missed something but do they offer some thing other schools dont because we arent just talking a bag of chips here! theyre landing fees are suprisingly more expensive than any other school iv checked out.

so iv come to a decision....

an NPPL at stapleford (read some reviews, been to there www. and they are fairly close. of course il check the school further before commiting) seems the most convinient for me right? a fair bit cheaper, a bit more simplified an all aspects. i could do a little cross country, flying for fun untill they let the colour blind folks fly proffesionally:O .

if that ever happens il expand my NPPL, im sure this is possible.

thanks for all the input, hope i havent missed anything.

:ok:

[Genghis the Engineer]

Why is Cabair so expensive? It's basically a premium product, aimed at future professional pilots, with everybody else paying for the same.

Seriously, do look around at other airfields and other sorts of flying. Look, for example further SE, at gliding and microlighting for example. Don't let anybody tell you that any form of recreational flying is "better" or "purer" than any other. If you have time but not money gliding might for example be the way ahead.


All flying is good, some flying are more expensive than others!

G

[Droopystop]

As Whirly said, you will get all manner of different answers and true to form here is my experience.....

I, like you, did a trial lesson (two in fact). Like you, I got well and truely hooked. But location and finances didn't allow me to take it any further. So it was over a year before I started. But in that time, I saved enough to pay for a ppl. Net result was I did the PPL in about 6 weeks. Doing it in a lump is definitely beneficial. Bear in mind that exams are only valid for a year, so if you are going to do it over a number of years, don't rush into doing the exams.

As for flying for a living, look at it this way. Commercial pilots get told to fly where, when and how. Private flying allows you to decide what when and where. I have my dream job in aviation, but I miss private flying. Oh and night flying? as the old saying goes only bats and t**ts fly at night. Believe me, it is not all it is cracked up to be.

Which ever way you go, good luck and have fun.

[SQUAWKIDENT]

Just seen the bit about him being colour blind. Would that not have an important bearing on whether he could be issued with a PPL/NPPL?

[Genghis the Engineer]

I've not had occasion to check the NPPL medical, but the old "pink chit" that was used for microlight medicals had no problem with colour blindness, except that you were prohibited from using an airfield where colour signals are the main means of communication with an aircraft. Since there probably aren't any, that was really no restriction at-all. I assume that if the NPPL medical changed that, we'd have heard the shouting by now.




By the way, I've just realised that nobody answered cessnasey's second question. Yes flying can get a lot cheaper after you've got your licence - but it depends upon how you play it.

For example, typical costs might work something like this:-

- Cost of dual: £120/hr
- Cost to rent same aeroplane solo: £100/hr
- Cost to fly same aeroplane in syndicate: £50/hr
- Cost to fly microlight or PFA homebuilt: £30/hr

But, to buy a microlight or syndicate share is likely to be upwards of £2k (there's no real upper limit). Personally, I think that investment is well worthwhile.

G

[BroomstickPilot]

Cessnasey,

May I suggest that before you go any further expending your hard earned shekels you take a close look at the 'National Private Pilot Licence' as an alternative to the PPL, and Micolighting rather than flying the SEP 1 'A' Class aeroplanes you are now flying.

With colour blindness, you are never going to pass the Class 1 medical, so all your flying is going to be recreational flying, because you won't be climbing up flying's greasy pole, hence you don't really need a PPL.

The NPPL is a cut down version of the PPL that should be attainable in far fewer hours, but is useable only in the UK and (I believe by bi-lateral agreement with the French,) in France. Hence, for your purposes cheaper and just as good.

The latest generation of microlights is extremely sophisticated. In fact the microlighting world's latest aircraft are now far better than most of ours. I'm sure you will find flying an Ikarus C42 very much more fun than any stodgy old Warrior or C152. For this, you will take the BMAA's licence instead of the PPL. Microlighting is very much cheaper than flying SEP1s at Biggin HIll.

Good Luck,

Broomstick.

[shortstripper]

If I were you I'd seriously look into Gengis's idea about gliding. Compared to power it is extremely cheap and progress is usually quite rapid, and despite what you'd think ... especially so in the winter!

If you find a decent gliding club you'll find that only fog or very strong winds will curtail flying. Ok, so the duration of each flight will be short (typically 5-10 minutes in winter) but you learn in small bites without the "brain burn" that a 1 hour power lesson can cause. Turn around in the winter is quick as few gliders dissappear off on cross countries so IMHO this is ofte the best time to learn! Every flight from the first couple on will have you attempting to land, so you soon become far more proficient in that area than the average power student. Later in the spring as thermal activity increases, so do the duration of your flights. You'll soon be revelling in the hunt for lift and won't look back!

If young and full of aptitude you can easily solo by about 25 flights ... say 4-5 hours. In a power aircraft this will be more like 20 flights and 20 hours. Your gliding experience can count toward your PPL once a certain stage has been achieved and you will alost certainly be a better power pilot from having had your glider training.

It's certainly worth considering!

SS

[J.A.F.O.]

All great advice. There are so many ways to fly and none is better than another.

For what it's worth my advice is don't give up - I took 21 and a half years from first trial flight to licence, yes, that's right 21 and a half years. And I don't have one single regret.

Now I've got a NPPL I'm looking at PFA types, groups and Self Launched Motorised Gliders to give me more experience and more time in the air more cheaply.

Everything you try to do will take you longer than you think (though, hopefully, not as long as me) and cost you more than you budgeted for but it will be worth it.

[Paris Dakar]

cessnasey,

If I'd converted every pound I spent (as a younger chap) on drinking, into pounds saved towards flying, then my aerial experience would have been quite substantial, and my waist line a great deal smaller. I wish I'd had your determination.

If you are self employed then taking time out of work to fly is very expensive. If you are an employee but only have limited annual leave entitlement you could always ask if you could advance some of 'next years leave' and this would allow you to consider an accelerated course. I went down this route and 'borrowed' some A/L - I believe it saved me a pretty packet but it may not be suitable/appropriate to everyone?

PD

[Zulu Alpha]

There does seem to be a few bits of misinformation. Firstly colour blindness will mean no night rating or landing at airfields with only coloured light signals to communicate.
The first can be overcome by taking a test, but moderate to bad colour blindness will probably cause you to fail. The test is a Holmes Wright Lantern test at the CAA. Even if you can't pass then you won't be allowed a night rating so that you'll just have to get down on the ground by 30 mins after sunset...Not really much of a problem.
The second is easy to overcome because there are no airfields that only use coloured light signals, but I just love showing that restriction in my UK license to my US aviation friends.... It reminds me of the days when we had an empire!!!

The NPPL is great but you cannot use it ouside the UK which means no trips to France or the Channel Islands etc.
France does have reciprocal rights for PFA permit aircraft but not the NPPL (yet?)

If you are going to follow the 1 hour every two weeks route then get MS flight simulator and play with it and also get an airband radio and listen to it. This will help you remember what you learnt in the last lesson.

I would also try and aim to get your licence by Easter. Then you will be able to build some solo time with good weather over the following summer. If your licence arrives in October then the chances are that you will get very rusty over the winter and will need some more dual after the winter.

I also agree that joining a group after you have your licence is a good idea. Availability, cost, pride of ownership (even if it is only the left wing), flying with other group members etc etc is better than renting.

Good luck and safe enjoyable flying

David

[cessnasey]

you guys are full of valuable advice here huh! iv just been doing some reading on the NPPL licence and this really does seem the best option for me. i dont mind flying within the uk only, and, this leaves me the option to upgrade in usa for a full PPL (id love to do some flying in the usa) in future. hopefully this is possible. its a bummer having to except that il never be able to live my childhood dream of being an airline pilot though:sad:

also is MS flight sim effective in terms of real world practice? iv been using this for fun, never thought it would mean much in terms of real flying...

id like to thank everyone for there contributions to this thread. it has helped me a great deal.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Opinions vary on whether playing with PC flight simulators is (a) useful, or (b) pointless but harmless, or (c) downright harmful (or (d) really only of any benefit for IFR flying). I tried but gave up as it is so unlike real flying.

I do on the other hand listen to ATC in the bath (shush! - don't tell the regulator!), which I do think is helpful.

[EEJay]

Don't wait until the so called good weather of spring, start now if you can. That way you will spend the poor weather flogging around the circuit and when things improve you will be in a position to take advantage.

Whatever way you elect to try just do it and enjoy

EJay