Average instructor wage??

[Kengineer-130]

Just a quick one, how much would an average full time PPL instructor earn?? :ok: many thanks

[Say again s l o w l y]

We pay our instructors:
£15/flying Hr for restricted FI's.
£18/flying Hr for FI's
£25/flying Hr for IMC or aero's training.

Certainly better than the average and since we have split the costs into a/c hire and instructor rates, no-one complains about what the FI costs even though it means we aren't the cheapest around.

[long final]

SAS,

Do you pay a retainer along with that?

LF

[Send Clowns]

Wage? Do you mean pocket money?

I have been paid variously £15 or £20 per flying hour. Another local club pays £12.50 restricted, £15 unrestricted. £10 seems very low, at least for this area! I like the idea as SAS's club uses of charging for the instructor separately.

[Say again s l o w l y]

No we don't, but all the instructors are part-time and don't rely on teaching for their primary income, so the actual amount that each person flies isn't massive. So we offset it by paying what I feel is a reasonable amount. The club also doesn't take much out of the FI cost, with any money that the club makes coming from the a/c hire NOT the FI.

I used to teach at £9/hr with NO retainer and actually think that the rates of pay overall are disgusting, so this is my way of trying to do something to change it.

No one has complained since they know they'll get high quality training as the FI's aren't forced to fly 6+ hrs a day just to be able to eat.

[greeners]

SAS

Whilst some continue to be amazed about the overall quality of the PPL training product in the UK, there is definitely a market in the UK for high quality instruction at higher than average rates. Not massive, certainly, but it clearly exists.

greeners

[Say again s l o w l y]

I agree with you greeners, that is one of our reasons for being in existance.

I have found it amusing that although we don't have a huge number of completely new students, we have an increasing amount of people from other schools who have already started their training.

I think that this is because at first people look simply at price since they have little else to judge on at an early stage, but after a while, it seems quality becomes more important.

As to the general standard of PPL training... In one word - shocking.
I have been gobsmacked by the level of knowledge of many of the students that have come our way. It isn't their fault, but if this is the average level of instruction in the country, then I'm very worried for our industry.
I think I must have been very fortunate in the places I have worked and the people I have worked with.

[Gbarral]

The one area where instructor pay is reasonable is rotary. Helicopter instructors get £40-50 an hour. That tends to make it more like a profession rather than a hobby.

[hugh flung_dung]

SAS: "we have split the costs into a/c hire and instructor rates"
I've recently suggested (beyond my job grade) doing the same, it's much more transparent and should/could lead to fairer pay for instructors and a greater understanding by customers.

Do you have the same aircraft rate for dual and solo?

HFD

[Say again s l o w l y]

The a/c rate is just that. If you are self-fly hiring, then obviously that is all you pay for, but if you are a student flying solo, then you will still pay the same instructor rate.

For students, there is no difference between solo or dual as the FI is still responsible for you even if they aren't in the aircraft.

[Dr Eckener]

For students, there is no difference between solo or dual as the FI is still responsible for you even if they aren't in the aircraft.

SAS, does this mean you pay your unrestricted PPL FI's 18 pounds per hour for solo flights they supervise as well, or does this go to the club?

Not sure about your claims to pay better than average. For your PPL guys/gals, if they were full time averaging about 500 hrs per year, this would equate to 9k. This is very average/below average in my neck of the woods.

Good job your FI's do have other jobs (and no wonder they are all part time), as no retainer makes for a meagre living throughout the winter months.

[Say again s l o w l y]

Who ever is their supervising FI gets the £3 difference in costs. The only reason we have a difference is to try and force FI's to become unrestricted, it causes a lot of problems for the club to make sure they are always supervised and for some reason a lot can't seem to be bothered to send in the form!

Whilst our rates of pay are in no way stellar, they are an awful lot better than most I've worked for in the past. I would love to increase them even further, but we have to be careful not to be too much more overall than the other local schools.

Our pay rates were set by the instructors themselves and since we have no full-time instructors every seems to be happy with the current situation. Not something that happens in many other clubs, where pay gripes seem to be at the top of every conversation.

Many of us are part-time not because of the amount we get paid by the club, but because the airlines pay our normal wages. If we were a full time organisation (which we aren't by any stretch of the imagination) then you would generally fly more than 500 Hrs a year anyway. I've certainly done far closer to 1000 a year than 500 when I used to teach full time.

[D 129]

I heard ...

Waltham (part timers) - £ 8 / hour for the first 8 hours a month then £ 20 / hour.

Denham - about £ 10 or £ 12 / hour and a retainer of £ 6 or £ 7 K.

Wycombe (part timers) - £ 8 / hour and that's it. (full timers more - about £ 10 / hour and an annual retainer of about £ 3 K)

Compton Abbas - £ 12 / hour (restricted) and £ 17 unrestricted.


So the lower payers will pay a busy full time PPL instructor about £ 9 K a year - the better payers will probably pay £ 13 - £ 14 K.

Not much on a training outlay of £ 50 K - No wonder most instructors head off to the airlines within a season. A pity because schools and students would benefit from continuity and some more experienced colleagues.

Most schools do not pay for the time that you are briefing students or answering the phone, manning the desk etc. (The statutory minimum wage comes to mind). Most do not pay you for your supervision of student solo flights.

There seems to be a huge step to CPL instructing where £ 20 K to £ 30 K + is within grasp.

At PPL there seems to be an assumption that everyone is moving on to the airlines and that since you will be leaving shortly you can be replaced easily. And as long as supply and demand support that rate of pay then that's your lot !.

But (money aside) instructing is one of the most enjoyable flying jobs around !

D 129

[Say again s l o w l y]

How can schools not pay you for supervising solo flights?
You are still responsible for that student and they are still paying the dual rate, so why doesn't the FI get the cash? I've never heard that one before and it's totally unacceptable.

Sounds like a con to me!

[long final]

It is a con. Students goes solo on your license and you dont even get paid for it.

[finals24]

I can confirm that at my school instructors do not get paid for solo supervision! I believe that it is totally wrong since the student pays the full dual rate. In my previous employment we got half the normal rate for solo supervision, even that, was in my opinion a disgrace.

There is no doubt in my mind that your licence is at greater risk when the student is solo. At least when you are dual you can intervene to stop them busting airspace etc.

It is just another example of the appalling way that many employers in this industry threat their staff.

[Say again s l o w l y]

I am utterly disgusted that schools would charge the full dual rate and NOT pay the FI for a solo student.

If they crash, it is YOUR responsibility, that is your risk, so therefore you should at least get paid.

Name and shame, so that we can all avoid working for these 'cowboys.' Mind you if I ever found myself working somewhere like that, I'd be out of the door faster than you can imagine. Don't accept it, it only encourages them.

Where are the forms for the instructors association someone mentioned on here a while ago?

[Wingswinger]

Don't driving instructors earn more than this?

[GRIFFIN2000]

The way of paying the instructors per flighthour is not the way it is done all over the place. Just as a reference to how it can be I worked for a couple of years as an FI and earned about £25k/year. This without regards to how many hours flown etc... I know its not the standard but just wanted to give another perspective on to what is said earlier in the thread.

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"Darn Spandinavians. I beat them in the war and I´ll beat them again"

[Sleeve Wing]

Like a lot of us, I accept the rates, with occasional negotiation
(or ear-bending!) because I love what I do.

As SAS, I do get a little peeved at the iniquities such as no pay for supervised solo, although I don't suffer that.

One aspect hasn't been mentioned though.

In fact we only get HALF of what we're really entitled to !

I tend to teach in the 'advanced' sector of the PPL regime i.e. IMC, IR or Aerobatics ( up to Intermediate.)

This requires thorough pre-flight briefing or we are wasting the students time. It's no use trying to 'brief' in the air.
The same applies to post-flight . A thorough debrief is always necessary or the whole impact is lost.

So this effectively DOUBLES the length of the trip !

We don't get paid for that although I have to add that, in my own case, the aeros trips attract a set fee no matter what the sortie length.

Rgds, Sleeve :hmm: :hmm: