Ballot counted: BA Cabin Crew support industrial action if EG300 Imposed

[keeperboy]

Well the votes from the BA Cabin Crew/BASSA ballot have been counted.

2731 voters support industrial action by BASSA.

130 voters against.

Just some background for those of you who don't know what the f*ck I am rambling n about! BA management are keen for it's cabin crew and it's trade union reps to accept a new 'Attendence Monitoring process' (EG300). Every other worker area (including the pilots) have signed up to this new policy, which BA says will save it a mint (it is harsher than the current policy, so less absence).

To give an idea of how desperate BA is for the cabin crew to accept the new system, they are offering GBP1000 each as a sweetner.

Us (the cabin crew) and our trade union reps have said that we are in support of a new system provided there are alleviations for Cabin Crew, or a higher trigger point. The reason being that we can not come to work with sinus, colds, intestinal problems (we are food handlers) etc etc. We also don't have the option to work from home when unwell either. All these alleviations have so far been turned down by BA management.

All is not rosy with the new system since it's implementation, especially with the Pilots. Record numbers of them are now 'in the system' and facing disciplinary action, or even dismissal which is the final stage (basically they declare you un-fit for the job if you reach this stage). So we are seeing an increasing amount of pilots coming to work ill, too afraid to go sick.

The implementation of this new EG300 policy for the cabin crew has been dragging on for over a year now.

Talks finally broke down between BASSA and management about a month ago with no resolution. BA's next step would be to 'impose' the new monitoring process.

BASSA sent out a ballot to all its members. Basically the question was 'would you support BASSA in industrial action if EG300 sickness monitoring is imposed?'. And well, for the answer see the beginning of my spiel!

Watch this space.............

[Carnage Matey!]

So 20% of the cabin crew voted against AMP and the rest couldn't be @rsed to vote. Doesn't bode well for a strike ballot, does it.

Record numbers of them are now 'in the system' and facing disciplinary action, or even dismissal which is the final stage

Thats completely untrue, as BALPA pointed out in its last newsletter to BA pilots. Of course BASSA would never lie to you, would they?

[Sean Dell]

Plus - it would actually achieve what it says - and that would be an enormous reduction in CC sickies (particularly during Henley/Ascot/Wimbledon etc. etc.).

While we are here - what about the recent refuelling problems at T4, which meant that A/C had to taxi over to the T5 apron for fuel before setting off. At which point CC were declaring that this journey of about 1 1/2 miles was a sector and as a result they couldn't continue!

Oh and also, how about the a/c enroute to the States that was forced to divert because a message was received by the FC stating that CC management were insisting that they did so as they were going to overrun their hours (not operate into discretion).

Oh and thanks to BASSA for their message of support to the secondary striking baggage handlers following the Gate Gourmet issue.

YOUR UNION IS A CREDIT TO YOU GUYS !

[ornithopter]

As the BA pilot who was furthest through the sytstem for a while, I can tell you that no one is at threat for their jobs (at least at the moment). While the policy could certainly do with improvement, and has made me pretty angry at times, BA have kept their word and no one has gone into stage 3, despite making the triggers. Stage 4 is the one to worry about.

Every body else is in it, no one has yet been sacked, so what is the great worry.

BASSA have most definitely lied to you in the latest communication, so who do you trust?

I can assure you that I don't trust management, but BASSA take the biscuit. When will you guys realise they are harming you, rather than defending you?

3000 odd supporting a strike is hardly a great worry.

[gladrags]

ornithopter,

I appreciate some of the things that you said in your post, however, don't forget that the management style of the pilot community's managers and the cabin crew's are TOTALLY different.

Our management, unlike yours, are NOT renowned for their reasonable and pragmatic approach towards their staff.
In the past they have failed to deliver what they have promised-hence the high level of mistrust towards them among the cabin crew within BA at this time and towards the EG300 policy too.

Iam fully aware that alleviations can & have been used with the pilots,and we are told that each case will be dealt with on an individual basis,however I don't hold out much hope for our managment using any of these options.

Also, Please don't underestimate the strength of only "3000 odd" BASSA members striking-even this amount of people will have a very definite effect on the operation.

Let's hope it does'nt end up getting that far.

gladrags:cool:

[Rescue 137]

While I agree with trying to do something about unacceptable conditions then striking is not the way forward for BA.BA is still trying to get over the last strike.The company has an Image problem as alot of people wont fly BA as they dont know when you will next go on strike.Everytime BA strikes then it looses around £40 million pound never mind the repeat business that disappears.If BA needs to save Money then the jobcutting will start again.

How many more times before BA are finished by Strike Action.Alot of people are currently leaving BMI as a short haul carrier for BA because of BMI's new cheap fares implementation.If BA strike then all that will mean is that all the cheap no frills airline will make a killing and for Domestic then Trains may be a better option.

[Da Dog]

I really feel sorry for the cabin crew:( They are being worked over by both the managers and their own union:uhoh:

BASSA are peddling lies and half baked rhetoric to achieve something for their parent sponser, and thats a punch up with BA.

2731 members voting for strike action is simply not enough and BASSA know it, but thats not going to stop the egoistical juggernaut. They are going to to need to talk this one up a bit more.

Gladrags if this thing kicks off lets hope for your sake that more than 21% of the work force is with you

:p

[HOVIS]

In many ways I support the CC in their attempts to resist EG300. Within BA Engineering it has been introduced with many problems. Many are already at the stage 3 level. One LHR fitter came into work with chicken pox (being afraid to go sick) and gave one of his colleagues shingles!

Others are being branded as skivers for being off sick after car accidents etc.

It's a major success in the short term as sickness is down but soon, when the bird flu pandemic hits, entire shifts will go down! Bravo.:mad:

[ornithopter]

Gladrags - thanks for your reasonable reply, I was expecting more of a flaming!

I do agree with you - I cannot find much good to say about your management and I really do appreciate the lack of trust you guys have. My post isn't intended to defend them. What I cannot stand though is the constant stand off between BA management and BASSA.

BASSA's publications (letters, newletters, posters etc) are often so inflamatory and single minded and in the case above just pain untrue. I just wish there would be more understanding instead of face offs all the time. That way I wouldn't have to worry about another needless strike and both the crew and company would be better off. I cannot belive some of what BASSA "defends" supposedly on your behalf and how damaging they can be - while at the same time many of your colleagues will defend them to the death.

I certainly wouldn't want your scheduling agreement or pay structure and I'm afraid I hold most of BASSA with a deep distrust.

In this case I do not want to see more disruption, loss of revenue, worry about longterm prospects etc for something which all other staff members have applied to them.

We do need to stop dishonest sickness, while at the same time supporting those who are genuinely sick - the current process is not that good, but negatioation is the key. If BASSA demonstrated that within their ranks dishonest sickness was unacceptable, that would certainly help and there would be less need for the policy in the first place.

Allied to that is your poor leave and days off situation, but some intelligent changes to what BASSA defends as "your agreements" would benefit both sides and probably negate the need for a policy in the first place.

[flybywire]

So 20% of the cabin crew voted against AMP and the rest couldn't be @rsed to vote. Doesn't bode well for a strike ballot, does it.

If we at LGW had been included, maybe the result would have been more successful!
We were not included.......kept in the dark........that tells a lot!!!

Pathetic, appalling, absolutely outrageous.

Let me serve Mr KW again next time he's on my flight (and obviously upgraded to business)

:mad:

[keeperboy]

I am neither in support, or against a new sickness policy.

I voted 'YES' to supporting industrial action, because as it stands, EG300 is un-fair to cabin crew.

However, I really think BASSA and BA need to address a system to sort out the constant skivers. Those who can't get the leave to look after their kids so they go sick. Those who don't like going to dar es salaam so they go sick.

The 'disretion' bit of EG300 really needs to be a bit more specific. I think it needs to state, in black and white, that if you have a certified broken limb, surgery, or for example chicken pox (like the engineer above) that these illnesses will not be counted towards trigger points.

If this was agreed, I wouldn't have a problem with EG300. But the management simply won't agree to it, stating that it would be covered by management 'discretion'. Unfortunately within the cabin crew community there are issues with trust between managers and their crew. We know that their pay is performance related, which their teams attendence forms a part of. So how liberal will their discretion be?

Once these issues are addressed and what exactly consitutes a trigger illness and what does not, I will support EG300. Until then, I will support industrial action.

[Carnage Matey!]

I voted 'YES' to supporting industrial action, because as it stands, EG300 is un-fair to cabin crew.

Errr, no you didn't. You voted 'YES' to having a ballot on industrial action if EG300 was imposed. As it looks like it's going to be imposed in a couple of weeks time then I hope you have a better turnout in your ballot for industrial action.

[flyingdutchman]

Sorry dear Keeperboy,

But what a stupid thing to post on an open forum.

BA's forward bookings are down xx % because of the GG fiasco and subsequent dramas and here you are peddling poss. impending doom and gloom.

If you want to discuss such matters, then please do so in the confines of the usual joint forums.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot !

[triple x]

2861 votes is not enough. That is only 20% of the cabin crew.

That is not the majority.

[TopBunk]

Hmmmm,

I know that the BASSA ballot was for an indication of how many felt strongly enough to support a possible ballot for industrial action, but a 90% return supporting a ballot from those who bothered to respond is significant.

There, however, is a big difference between indicating an intention to strike if called and actually doing it ....BUT .... as demonstrated in 1998?, all it takes is for a few (c.100) cabin crew to man the picket lines, and another 2000 call in sick - partly or even mainly, to avoid conflict with bullies within the union cohorts on return. ie the weaker cc members felt better able to call in sick than face their militant colleagues.

Things have changed since '98?, we now have had various wildcat actions over swipe-in/out, GG, etc over the last few years, furthermore we now have 3 TGWU reps under disciplinary re the recent walkout, we also have (and possibly most significantly, WW at the helm.

I would caution my CC colleagues to beware of the above....

WW will win his first conflict with the unions in BA, if CC are the first, you will lose. In refusing to agree a date to discuss EG300 you are playin ginto his hands. The company will choose when to take on/break a union, it decided in August not to make that the time (under Rod and Mike Street). Now WW is the boss, November would be a bad month to front up against WW over EG300, 'cos Nov is typically a weak month for business travel, and the company will be relishing the challenge.

As Clint would have said...."go on punk, make my day"

[OzzieO]

and the company will be relishing the challenge....................I doubt that very much somehow.

After all the bad publicity BA has had over the August/GG fiasco I doubt it can ill afford anymore conflict and bad publicity.

[flybywire]

2861 votes is not enough. That is only 20% of the cabin crew.

SOMEBODY TELL ME please...... why weren't we included!!!!!!!!
BASSA at LGW said nothing. Leave alone CC89.

Jeeeeeeeezzzzz......Let me have a face to face conversation with KW. Cannot wait.
:mad:

FBW:mad:

[Carnage Matey!]

Thats because LGW is not important to BASSA. Haven't you worked that out yet?

[Hotel Mode]

To be fair, they did it was on the back page of your newsletter.

[keeperboy]

Flyingdutchman not only is it your post that is stupid, but also incorrect.

Firstly, this is not a forum that Joe average on the street would pop into for a look. It is either airline employees or those that have not much else to do except partcipate in Cabin crew forums I guess!

Did you also post your two pence worth in the Virgin pay dispute/industrial action forum? Or the (multiple) Qantas ones?

Secondly, on figures released on Tuesday, forward booking on BA short haul flights are up 1.6% since August (compared with last years figures for same period) and up 2.7% on long haul flights (ditto).

What do you suggest we do? Oh yes, look what damage this might do to BA, yes, please walk all over us. please come along and impose what ever you want on us, because quite frankly we are all to scared to do anything about it?

The thing is, we know full well that as soon as BASSA calls for an industrial ballot the management will back down. As they did last year with our pay dispute. And if they don't and if it does go to a strike, like has already been said........only a hundred or so actually need to picket. It's the disruption 2,000 crew do when calling in sick that can really do the damage.

Surely a more sensible option on both sides would be a bit of give and take? BA management to acknowledge that crew cannot work with a broken limb or post-surgery for instance? And guarantee that such instances of sickness won't count towards said trigger points.

[Harry Wragg]

Instead of a one size fits all policy (EG300) how about BA managers actually earn their keep and manage. I know most of them will find it pretty difficult as most are over paid messengers and brainless flunkies.

Maybe its old fashioned but maybe your line manager should actually "manage" you. If you persistently have a problem then this should be dealt with by your manager.

Worrying people unneccesarily with this "moronic" policy is at best a sign of incompetence and at worst low level bullying.

FYI, two people have been sacked to date under EG300.

As for the pilot fraternity, well their naiviety knows no bounds. Its not their fault that they try to behave professionally with an amateurish set-up like BA.

Harry (fit as a fiddle, not in EG300, waiting to meet a competent BA manager)

[Carnage Matey!]

The thing is, we know full well that as soon as BASSA calls for an industrial ballot the management will back down. As they did last year with our pay dispute.

Your guardian angel Mike Street has retired now and there's a new man at the top. Do you think he's come to BA to be bullied? Do you think it's coincidence that two weeks after WW takes the helm the policy you've been negotiating for months is suddenly imposed?

And if they don't and if it does go to a strike, like has already been said........only a hundred or so actually need to picket. It's the disruption 2,000 crew do when calling in sick that can really do the damage.

And then they'll be be one step further into AMP by displaying some very suspicious 'pattern absence'. I doubt you'd even get 2000 calling in sick.

[Jetstream Rider]

Harry - telling us 2 people have been sacked by EG300 tells us nothing.

Who were they? Are they people we should all be glad to see the back of, or are they unfortunate people who deserve our support?

If they are bludgers then good riddance.

If they are victims, then lets lend them our support.

It makes a key difference.

[Harry Wragg]

It's quite obvious that a lot of people don't know what they have signed up for. You cannot be terminated under EG300 for "skiving" or "bludging". That is covered under a separate employment policy.

You can only have your contract terminated under EG300 if you have been absent due to sickness or illness. When you reach stage 4 a decision will be made as to whether you are deemed fit enough to continue in your job.

So, in conclusion, EG300 is a disciplinary process which WILL result in your contract being terminated if you are unable to do your duties due to "sickness" or "illness". Taking time off to go to Wimbledon and then being found out is a different employment policy.

Get the employment handbook out and read what your union has signed you up for. At least the cabin crew unions protects its members.

Harry (and I got £1000 this month as BALPA signed me up for this deal)

[keeperboy]

Totally respect your point Carrnage.

2,000 crew going sick though represents almost the entire LHR S/H operation.

I stand by what I have said earlier. I agree with a new attendance monitoring system in principle, but it has to be made a bit more specific to enable to it support those who are genuinely having a run of bad luck and get ill a few times.

My prediction still stands though. I reckon management will back down or reach a 'compromise' with BASSA to save face.

And i'm willing to put my angelic reputation on it! lol

So, I say, lets meet back here in two weeks and see who is right? ;)

Anyone fancy placing bets? lol

[One Step Beyond]

I reckon management will back down or reach a 'compromise' with BASSA to save face.

Even a cursory examination of WW's approach at EI would disabuse you of this idea in short order. WW doesn't reach compromises and he sure as hell won't be intimidated by bassa. The cc gravy train is over, just as sure as it ended in EI. It's just a matter of when you realise it.

[Jetstream Rider]

Harry - you are quite right, EG300 is not the process to get rid of you if you are wagging time off. However if through the EG300 triggers you are "discovered" you get put into EG901 which may well see you sacked for skiving. Did these two get sacked via EG300 or EG901?

The worrying thing is that people uneducated in flying and medicine make the descision as to whether you are fit enough to do you job. A run of something nasty which clears up in a year could see you "supported" into another job, when in actual fact you are fit as a fiddle. That's what upsets me about the policy.

[Eddy]

Sean Dell, what do you have against British Airways ?

If you're with the company, may I suggest quitting? You're obviously unhappy here. If you're not with us, why do you have so much hatred inside of you towards BA, it's staff and it's associated Unions?

[keeperboy]

So One STep Beyond you are placing a wager that management won't back down or reach a compromise?

OK, let's see within the weeks what happens.

WW has said himself that BA is a totally different beast that EI (Daily Mail full page interview Thursday 6 Oct), that he plans on continuing along Eddingtons path and realises that BA will not require the same 'radical' surgery that EI did.

Judging by the article (see if its online at the daily mail site), it seems he will be focusing on streamlining processes in line for the move to T5. And baggage handlers get more than one mention, office/ground staff also. Cabin crew and pilots are mot mentioned.

[purr777]

Latest info from BASSA = BA to impose new system on 15/10/05 regardless of crew "opinions". BASSA can only start balloting for IA from 16/10/05 at earliest.

[keeperboy]

This is the actual message on the BASSA website:

"In response to the consultative ballot on EG 300, we have offered three dates to BA to try and resolve our differences.

We can supply a negotiating team for 19/20/21 of October, and we are more than prepared to use all three days and stay all night if need be.

However, BA managers are indicating BA will impose this policy on the 15th October - if that is the case we will proceed with our Industrial Ballot on the 16th October."

[purr777]

Basically, it WILL go ahead.

[Skylion]

"BA will not require the same radical treatment as EI did"

Absolutely right,- its situation is much more serious,- from top to bottom, across the whole business. It has a wonderful opportunity now to reform and restructure itself entirely as if it were starting afresh and without the legacy of 60 years accumulation of inefficiency heaped one upon another. It needs to take the pain once and for all and redesign itself as a new business would. Only then it will be able to afford to grow, create new jobs and secure a future for its people. Protecting redundant roles, job descriptions, working practices, behaviours, introversion, reward systems etc. will only lead to it going the way of the printing business, the London docks, coal mining, steelworks, the car industry etc etc. It and all its staff much seize the moment and not cling onto the poles of the past. ALL its people must find a new desire and ENTHUSIASM to make it succeed and to whatever it takes to make it the customers first choice.

[Jetstream Rider]

Skylion - how are we in worse shape than EI? We are the most profitable airline in the world right now - entirely different from one that is about to go to the wall.

Can you explain how the coal minig industry, ship building and british car building are better now the unions have been "broken"? I for one would not like to be in any of those industries.

Now don't get the wrong idea, BA needs to change some of its working practices etc, but jumping in with a big axe will see us go the way of Rover, as everyone will be so hacked off with it, that productivity will get worse. When the management then try to get it going again, it will fail and so will we. The problem with the way the above industries were dealt with is that the "breaking" was too heavy. The best way is to work with people, rather than against them and make changes where you can. While we are making profit the unions are not just going to sit and watch as their agreements are torn up. If we work together, it will make the transition smoother and less painful for everyone.

[purr777]

Jetsream Rider - no one doubts BA's profits, but you seem to have missed Mr Walsh's early speeches, interviews etc where he openly admits to wanting to cut the "slack" and some out dated work practices BA uses. His aim is a cost efficient airline to the very last penny and even more profits to aid BA's expansion.

Aside from the above - I see crews as concerned over the EG300 as they will have to turn up for work rather than deciding which trips they do and don't do!

[miche2]

Having worked for BA I know that most of arguments about how working as crew equates to more exposure to colds etc than other jobs are rubbish. Crew use the sickness aspect to control their lives.Trips to NRT, BKK, KUL etc kept the same crews on the rosters from the published dates to the actual trip whereas MIA, BOM, DEL, DAC etc saw numerous changes right until the briefing! Colds/sickness only occur on MIA, BOM, DEL etc....

Don't get me wrong, I was no saint and it was (and probably still is) commonplace to hear " I won't be doing that trip...I'm due a sick!". Yes, I had a very easy life as BA crew ... and I still pinch myself with what people (used to ) get away with
:O

[keeperboy]

That tack generally doesn't work anymore Miche.

Scheduling got wise to this years ago so now a decently profitable trip is rostered after the likes of BOM DEL DAC etc. So if you go sick for your DEL you will lose your NRT following it as well.

Latest update from BASSA today:

"The talks on EG300 will take place next week on 19/20/21. Both management and BASSA have recognised that these three days will be the end of the line, one way or the other.
We have made progress on what was originally proposed last year, and because of BASSA's stance all other groups have benefitted as well.
However, we have not reached agreement on some key elements relating to the cabin crew job/lifestyle. All we can promise you is every effort will be made on our part at those talks. "

[flybywire]

Crew use the sickness aspect to control their lives.Trips to NRT, BKK, KUL etc kept the same crews on the rosters from the published dates to the actual trip whereas MIA, BOM, DEL, DAC etc saw numerous changes right until the briefing! Colds/sickness only occur on MIA, BOM, DEL etc....

Generalising is unfair. You're making the same mistake as our management does.

That's what they don't want to understand and fail to recognise. They should hit hard those people who skip such duties, and should support who's genuinely sick.

This job is like no other, it's cruel to adopt the same rules as for other departments in the company. They should adapt tyhe same rules to this role.

Example. I am off sick at the moment. I don't have a cold, I can stand on my feet and apparently could do the job perfectly if not for one thing. I have had some invasive dental surgery recently, and on my first flight (and the last before I reluctantly had to report sick) 48 hours after the surgery as BAHS advised, I was literally in agony. The change in cabin pressure (especially after take off) made me feel so bad that I was scared the skipper would leave me downroute.
Now I am on strong antibiotics to try to solve this as quickly as possible.
If I were working on the ground I would have no problems, I could do my job easily. But I can't, and management must recognise this! EG300 as it is now is no good for us. Ask the Nigels. The majority of them -especially here at LGW- are already biting their fingers after only a few months since the implementation.

Cheers.

FBW.

[Hotel Mode]

You're spouting the same rubbish BASSA feed you about the pilots. We are not biting our fingers about the AMP in fact i think its settled in quite nicely. There are 0 pilots in the latter stages.

Every department has reasons not they cant work when others can, some have very frequent industrial accidents that do not affect other departments. Others have regular medicals and large lists of what they cannot work for.

If they change the rules for Cabin Crew to exempt illnesses they will just always call in with "ear infections" and "stomach bugs" for Wimbledon/ Miamis instead

What BASSA are striking about is a cabin crew members inalienable right to chuck a sicky whan they fancy it.

[flybywire]

If they change the rules for Cabin Crew to exempt illnesses they will just always call in with "ear infections" and "stomach bugs" for Wimbledon/ Miamis instead

Hey hey hey!!! Wow where is this tone coming from!!!

I believe the answer is: follow what other airlines do in Europe.

In Italy, for example, to "call in sick" you have to have a doctor's certificate that states you've got something, even if you stay away for one day, and to go back to work you have to have another dosctor's certificate that states you're now fit to fly again.

It's a pain in the rear, but helps preventing recurrent episodes over wimbledon (what's the big deal about it anyway) etc. and works well for people who are genuinely sick. Most doctors wouldn't lie on paper anyway, or would they?

I am glad EG300 works fine for you, at least someone is happy. Most of my pilot friends/colleagues though aren't as happy as you. And most of them have already waved goodbye to that appealing bonus.

Ciao

FBW

[apaddyinuk]

Hang on a second.....Have I missed the point entirely?

Excuse me for shouting but WE HAVE NOT BALLOTED FOR INDUSTRIAL ACTION!!!!! We have balloted to remain in talks with BA over EG300. Did those petty few of you (not calling those of you who voted petty, just miffed that soooooo few bothered to vote at all) who actually voted bother to read the ballot paper in the BASSA newsletter?
What will happen is that if BASSA are not happy with the talks and BA enforce EG300 on us as it is, then we will vote again for industrial action, give the required notice and take it from there! BASSA is not opposed to EG300 in theory, they are opposed to the "one size fits all" attitude that it incorporates!

[wiggy]

flybywire

Good point about sick notes but I think that in the UK you need to be sick for 7 days before a Doc is obliged to issue a sick note. Going into the surgery and demanding a note because "BA demand I have one" for one days illness is going to meet with a pretty cool respones, IMHO.

[maxy101]

You'd be lucky to get to see a GP for 3 days while you're sick in the U.K.

[Helli-Gurl]

and the rest! shows when u last saw a doc in the UK!

[flybywire]

You'd be lucky to get to see a GP for 3 days while you're sick in the U.K.

Most of them actually have a new way of booking appointments, and you can see one on the same day you call them. If yours isn't available they will book you in for a consultation with any of the other GPs in the surgery.
This is something that has changed in the last two years.

I agree it would take some modifications to the current system, but it's about time this procedure was revisited.

Alternatively, have a doctor available at BAHS - give us back BAHS at Gatwick. I am sure that all the sickness loss is much more than what BAHS did and would cost.

[maxy101]

Last time, I tried to see a GP several months ago, it took 4 days. My sore throat had cleared up, but i went along anyway to tell them what a crap system they had, and how antibiotics 4 days ago would have cleared up my infection without me losing my voice. The GP just shrugged his shoulders. The new system is first come, first served. The phones are red hot from 0800. I got through at about 0815, by which time, all the appointments for that day had been filled. You couldnt book an appointment for the following day.

[sevenforeseven]

EG300 bring it on down.

The sooner it comes in the better.
CC stop having pity on yourselves you lot earn far too much for what you do and the time you get off between trips. Pilots accepted it because we are realists and we as professionals want to drag BA out of dinasour working practices. You ALL should cosider youselves lucky BA ever employed you.

One day you might have to work for a living, now we don't want that DO WE???

[flybywire]

sevenforeseven

CC stop having pity on yourselves you lot earn far too much for what you do and the time you get off between trips. Pilots accepted it because we are realists and we as professionals want to drag BA out of dinasour working practices. You ALL should cosider youselves lucky BA ever employed you.

Jeeeeeezzzzz.........Maybe it's not even worth pointing out to you that some of us really work hard here. Not all bases have the same perks as LHR. Time off between trips? hahahahaah. Earning too much? hahahahaha. You know your company so well.

Anyway. One day will come when all of us reach the "golden runway" , have lots of time off and earn all that money you're talking about.
And I really hope that when that day finally comes, I will be spared from flying with a professional pilot like you.

FBW.

[keeperboy]

sevenforeseven I think if you were to compare our wages, and Terms and Conditions, to the likes of the other european flag carriers such as AF/KL/LH/IB etc you will see that BA gets their moneys worth. Also the likes of the JL, NH and NZ LHR based crews. It isn't our fault that our main london competitors Virgin and bmi pay their staff rubbish.

And just another question. Out of curiousity, say BA DO ageee to change EG300 for the Cabin Crew. Then BALPA jump on the band wagon and say 'OK, we want the same exemptions, EG300 is unfair on the pilots'. Where will you stand then?

[Carnage Matey!]

BASSA haven't got any exemptions so far. All the planned changes to EG300 were agreed at the BATUC, which BASSA did not attend. Lets wait and see if they actually manage to achieve anything other than a face saving change of name because they're already trying to claim the BATUC changes as a victory for BASSA.

Now if you want to compare BA crew to LH/KL/AF then why do you have so much more sickness than them?

[keeperboy]

Carnage where can we see the figures to compare BA cabin crew sickness with KL/AF/LH?

[pollypocket36]

sevenfourseven: so you "profesionals" want to drag BA from the dinasour age hey. Thats funny! you must be about 1out of 4 pilots that actually agree with the system. Talking to many of you guys up the front, all I hear is bitching about the attendance system and how you are being far too over worked. Working to maximum scheme limits and feeling ill after a 4 day stint. However, not being able to call sick after you've come down with a cold and blocked ears as you may enter one of the various stages of the attendance policy. Attending a doctor to legally sign you off and then coming back to work thinking that you won't enter any stage of the policy. Only to find that it doesn't make a difference that you've managed to get a doctor's certificate to prove that you couldn't fly because of your cold and blocked ears. After all this, you still enter the process. Now that is what I call fair!!

We don't want to stop the proces coming in all together. Believe me, I'm all for it. I think it will reduce the sickness rate. However, it needs to be done in a fair and pratical way. We cannot be put into this one size fits all way of working. If we have an ear infection, we can't work as risk of bursting an eardrum will be exceptionally high. However, someone in an office can physically go to work and do their job. If anyone, regardless of their job, has a certificate from the doctor signing them off work, it shows that they are actually ill and should be warrented. Hwever, in your case, sevenfourseven, it isn't. This is what we are appealing against.

sevenfourseven, we are in the real world and I think it's time that some of you went to your own union and sort this mess that you have got yourselves into. We have seen what it has done to you guys, and wouldn't want it to be repeated. It's a unfair process that way it is now and needs to come in line with the "real world" way of working, as you say.

[hec7or]

I'm increasing frequently having to offload cabin crew after 2 sectors of a 4 sector day because they won't go sick until they are literally incapacitated with the pain of blocked ears. I'm also requesting early and gentle descents from ATC for the same reason.

It doesn't happen every day, but I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of these events to see whether Cabin Crew are taking an increasingly unnecessary risk with their health. At my present employer, flightdeck tend to be under very little pressure to fly if we are unfit.

We recently had a Senior off flying for 6 weeks with a burst eardrum due to "finger trouble" following an unpressurised take off. Nobody else on the flight was affected so she must have been unfit to fly.

If Crew are incapacitated with the pain during a normal descent, then what use will they be to anybody during an emergency descent? It's all becoming a bit of a lottery.

[keeperboy]

Well the scheduled 'final end of the road talks' have now concluded.

And the result? Well I don't really know(!!)

From the BASSA website:

"Talks suspended at 01.15 Saturday morning. They will continue through the weekend to try and reach a conclusion. It should not be lost on our membership that BASSA, by virtue of its stand alone situation outside of EG300, that we have made substantial inroads in the most sensitive areas of the policy. These achievements will be enjoyed by other trade groups as well, assuming we can reach agreement with BA.
We hope to tell you more as things develop, but please remember these negotiations have been difficult to say the least - mainly because other trade groups signed up to the policy 15 months ago. If BALPA had been more thoughtful and not rushed to sign up - our subsequent negotiations would have much easier!"

[Hand Solo]

If BALPA had been more thoughtful and not rushed to sign up - our subsequent negotiations would have much easier

Makes a change from BASSA blaming CC89 for all their woes I suppose. Now what are the odds that after a weekend of hard negotiation BASSA come out trumpeting the great changes they have achieved to EG300, then on closer inspection they turn out to be the changes agreed by all the other trade unions at the BATUC a couple of months ago which BASSA did not take part in?

[Hand Solo]

Good grief I must be psychic, it's exactly as I predicted! You've now got AMP and the only changes are those previously agreed at BATUC! So much for the 95% vote for a ballot, you've got AMP and your reps haven't changed it in any way. I guess the days of crew shortages over Royal Ascot and Wimbledon are numbered! I bet they'll still try to say its all BALPAs fault.:p Lets watch the sickness on those 2 sector earlies plummet.

[keeperboy]

Well it seems BASSA and BA management have agreed the implementation of the EG300 Attendence Management Process.

The main changes are:

- Fairness and Consistency of Discretion: A 'review body' to be set up comprising management, BASSA and CC89 reps to administer and monitor when disretion can be used in deciding whether an absence should or shouldn't count towards a 'trigger point'. This replaces the original offer of BA managers to soley implement and decide on what constitutes 'discretion'.

- Days Off: Days off/MBT days will not count as sick days. So if your roster is 3 day trip followed by 3 days off followed by a 4 day trip and you were sick for both trips it will be counted as 1 occassion but only 7 days sick.

- Monitoring EG300 implementation: Will now be discussed via a negotiating forum instead of a consultative forum.

All Cabin Crew will be balloted on BASSA's negotiations with the recommendation to accept. All crew will then be paid the GBP1,000 paid to other staff.

[Carnage Matey!]

The review body was agreed upon several months ago by all the other unons, it's not a BASSA win or even a change.
EG300 doesn't include days off or MBTs as sickness. I don't know if it that has been the case since the outset or if the policy was changed at the same time as the review body but again, it's not a BASSA win. Pilots have had days off excluded from the sickness totals for some time.

Monitoring EG300 implementation: Will now be discussed via a negotiating forum instead of a consultative forum
Sounds nice but what does it actually mean? If the negotiations go as well as the last lot, where you've talked for 5 days and come out with the same AMP as everyone else, then it seems a bit pointless.

[keeperboy]

To be honest Carnage I have no idea.

Probably just a 'face saving' episode on both sides.

I'm just glad it is sorted.....