FAA PPL in the UK

[waterpau]

Could anybody give me a definitive list of schools (if any) in the UK I could get an FAA PPL at?

I've got around 80 hours on a JAA PPL and recently obtained an FAA Class 1 medical, being unfit for a CAA class 1. If all goes to plan, I'm hoping to get out to the States in Feburary to begin working towards my FAA CPL/IR.

As I hope to go through the FAA modular route, I think it might be better getting a 'real' FAA PPL as opposed to a certificate on the back on my CAA PPL. I could utilise the next few months doing this before I go to the States in Feb.

Any help on schools or experience with those schools would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,

waterpau

[Chilli Monster]

As I hope to go through the FAA modular route,

There's no such thing. May I suggest a good read of the FAA's "FAR/AIM" either by book or online. Part 61 is the relevant part that details with licensing requirements.

If you want an FAA CPL then there is no requirement to do an FAA PPL first. What really counts is that you reach the minimum hours and requirements before your test.

So - my advice would be to do what I did:

Sit written exams and pass them

Do sufficient flying so that you have the requirements below by the time you come to do your test in the states:

(a) For an airplane single-engine rating. Except as provided in paragraph (i) of this section, a person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class rating must log at least 250 hours of flight time as a pilot that consists of at least:

(1) 100 hours in powered aircraft, of which 50 hours must be in airplanes.

(2) 100 hours of pilot-in-command flight time, which includes at least—

(i) 50 hours in airplanes; and

(ii) 50 hours in cross-country flight of which at least 10 hours must be in airplanes.

(3) 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in §61.127(b)(1) of this part that includes at least—

(i) 10 hours of instrument training of which at least 5 hours must be in a single-engine airplane;

(ii) 10 hours of training in an airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller, or is turbine-powered, or for an applicant seeking a single-engine seaplane rating, 10 hours of training in a seaplane that has flaps and a controllable pitch propeller;

(iii) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a single-engine airplane in day VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure;

(iv) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a single-engine airplane in night VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(v) 3 hours in a single-engine airplane in preparation for the practical test within the 60-day period preceding the date of the test.

(4) 10 hours of solo flight in a single-engine airplane on the areas of operation listed in §61.127(b)(1) of this part, which includes at least—

(i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point. However, if this requirement is being met in Hawaii, the longest segment need only have a straight-line distance of at least 150 nautical miles; and

(ii) 5 hours in night VFR conditions with 10 takeoffs and 10 landings (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower.

That's for the Commercial single engine - multi is similar

Like I said before - these can all be found in 14 CFR 61 (often just referred to as Part 61). The above is 14 CFR 61.129

To look up anything else it's all available online at 14 CFR - Aeronautics and space (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?&c=ecfr&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title14/14tab_02.tpl)

[waterpau]

Thanks guys.

young skywalker's point about ratings is my concern. I have 80 hours at present, and require 150 to start the FAA CPL training, and 250 for CPL issue. During that period, I'd hope to get an ME/IR (and obviously CPL), which given I'll ultimately need 250 hours with the right mix of flight time, will probably involve some hour building.

I can't see how I could get an FAA ME and IR in the states based on the certificate issued on the back of the CAA PPL. Is it possible to get the ratings based on the UK PPL, given I'll be going for an FAA CPL?

Thanks for the advice on getting FAA PPLs in the UK - I heard through the grapevine that there is an FAA examiner currently working part-time at Bonus (Cranfield). Will definitely see if he can help with the test for an FAA PPL.

[slim_slag]

waterpau,

Perhaps, using the terms loosely, modular=part 61 and integrated = part 141. So when you say 'modular' I'm assuing you are thinking Part 61. So who said you need 150 hrs to start CPL training? Is this a recommendation from a flight school? Part 61 is a roll your own type affair, the formal training for the actual CPL might be around 20-30 hours dual, so you could in theory start this with 220 hours under your belt. Plenty of people do this in practice.

I've forgotten (or more likely never really understood) the immigration regulations. If you are a foreigner and going for a rating don't you need to be enrolled in a Part 141 school? Which brings me to ask, and it's none of my business of course, but what are you going to do with an FAA commercial ticket if you cannot work in the States?

Then there are regulations in the UK relating to training, and you will need to be signed off by a FAA CFI, so you need to find out about that. Could be another hoop to jump through.

There is one UK based designated examiner on the publically available .FAA database (http://av-info.faa.gov/designeeSearch.asp?SrchBy=LOC). Ask him and see what he would need to sign you off. I still think you would need TSA authorisation even if you lived in the UK.

Having said that, if I was you I'd get an FAA PP-ASEL on the back of your JAA one and use that to fly around a bit in the States. Then when you are ready, and it shouldn't take long to get up to speed with the US way of doing things, just get your 'real' FAA PP-ASEL. Then do your IR, then CP-ASEL, then CP-AMEL with instrument add on. Should keep you busy

[waterpau]

Yes, apologies for the loose terminology on 61/141.

I can't remember off-hand where I picked up the reference for the minimum of 150 hours to commence CPL training - I've had a brisk look through the FAR/AIM but it isn't included there - perhaps I was mis-informed and it isn't actually a requirement.

As I understood it, as a foreigner you're free to attend part 61 schools to obtain certiicates as long as you comply with the TSA checks. I don't think you need to be in a 141 school to get ratings.

With an FAA ticket, I'd have to look to work in the States. Obviously, I can't guarantee a right to work in the States once I have a CPL/IR. I'll tackle that hurdle once it's in sight.

Thanks for the advice on other routes, slim_slag.

waterpau

[Chilli Monster]

youngskywalkerNot the experience I had last year. I had to have full FAA ppl before I could do the commercial. The examiner would not accept it any other way, had to sit and pass ppl written and do 2 check rides, private and commercial.

With respect, youngskywalker - they saw you coming. (How much extra did they charge you?)

A PPL issued "on the basis of.................." counts as a valid airmens certificate for those privileges provided it is valid. That has never changed, even since 9/11 and all the TSA requirements that one has to go through now. It's all laid down in 14 CFR 61.

(As my old Approach Procedural Instructor always used to say - "The answers in the book!")

My own experience bears this out (done 18 months ago, April 2004):

1) Arrive in U.S with CAA multi rating, and FAA single PPL issued " on the basis of..............."

2) Visit FSDO - get multi rating added to FAA licence "issued on the basis of..................."

3) Do training for FAA Commercial and instrument

4) Do flight test

I now have in my possession a shiny plastic new style FAA standalone licence marked "Commercial Multi engined / Instrument"

I believe that you can no longer add ratings or licences on the back of an FAA ticket based upon a CAA one.

Again - pure rot. Read the FAR's - it's all in there.

WaterpauI can't see how I could get an FAA ME and IR in the states based on the certificate issued on the back of the CAA PPL. Is it possible to get the ratings based on the UK PPL, given I'll be going for an FAA CPL?

Read above, if there's anything else you want explaining then drop me a line. I can even put you in touch with the school I used, who I would have no hesitation in recommending.

PS - forgot to mention - do get the writtens out of the way before starting the flying. Just remember they're only valid for 24 months from date of passing.

[Julian]

CM is correct, you can go straight into the CPL without bothering with the PPL, you were just revenue generating for those concerned!!!

One way I got caught out was that I did my CPL ME first before my SE, on passing they took my 'PPL based on....' licence away from me thereby not enabling me to fly SE in the US until I had passed my CPL SE. Something to do with not being able to hold both, was quite a strange feeling to loose a licence all of a sudden!!

The good news I got all my tickets and even added the 'High Perfofmance', 'Complex' and 'High Alititude' endorsements so now only the ATPL left!

Julian.

[IO540]

Bob Lynch is the former FAA salaried examiner who is (or was until recently) in charge of sending over FAA examiners to various places outside the USA. He "should" know the rules.

[slim_slag]

Best way to approach the FAA in these circumstances is to call two FSDOs and ask the same question. If you get the same answer both times there is a pretty good chance it's the correct answer. If they are wrong you just need to hold out. I had a FSDO refuse to accept a US passport as evidence of US citizenship. After an hour they found a piece of paper saying they could accept it, I just had to give them time to find it :)

[B2N2]

US restricted based on UK license.
Do the Instrument checkride, it will then read ..." US instrument test passed.."
With that restricted license you can now do your Commercial.
Because a restricted US license based on....is still a US license.
If you need more info PM or email.