Bill tough on mercenaries, but not 'freedom fighters'

[Deanw]

Cape Times


Bill tough on mercenaries, but not 'freedom fighters'

September 29, 2005

By Peter Fabricius

The government plans to toughen up its anti-mercenary law, but has made a controversial exception that would allow South Africans to join liberation struggles in other countries.

Draft amendments to the 1998 Regulation of Foreign Military Assistance Act would introduce compulsory minimum jail terms of up to 15 years for South Africans who provide military or security services abroad.

It will also give the government broader discretion to decide which countries South Africans may serve in.

Analysts believe the law is aimed at the hundreds of South Africans serving in Iraq as security officers and guards on the side of the Iraqi government and its foreign backers led by the US.

But while tightening up on these, it excludes "participation in national liberation struggles for the liberation of peoples of any country, self-determination and independence from colonialism, occupation, aggression or domination in accordance with the principles of international law".

"Does this mean it's OK to join Hamas?" asked one analyst.

The amendment bill has not been formally tabled in parliament but it was approved by the cabinet on September 14.

It is understood that the bill remains essentially the same.

Yesterday MP Kader Asmal, who helped draft the bill as chairman of parliament's defence committee, defended the exemption from the law for South Africans participating in liberation struggles.

He said the United Nations, in its recent negotiations on defining terrorism, had not defined those who participated in liberation struggles as terrorists.

The original 1998 legislation is is widely regarded as being too vague to deter South Africans, including South African residents - from working abroad as soldiers or security officers.


So far, South African courts have been able to fine only a few individuals after out-of-court settlements.

The most notable fine was that handed earlier this year to Mark Thatcher, son of former British prime minister Margaret Thatcher, for allegedly helping to finance the purchase of a helicopter that was to have been used in an attempted coup in Equatorial Guinea.

The law as it stands allows judges to impose sentences or fines and does not set minimums.

The draft amendment would set minimum jail terms of five, 10 and 15 years, without the option of a fine.

It would also give the government-controlled National Conventional Arms Control Committee the power to define any country as "regulated" - thereby forbidding South Africans from offering military or security services in such a country.

One analyst, who asked not to be named, said this measure appeared to be aimed at the many South Africans doing security work in Iraq.

The draft amendment would expose inconsistencies in approach. Instead of defining forbidden mercenary activity more precisely, the government had given itself discretion to select countries in which South Africans could not serve.

"It looks like they are saying it's OK to be a mercenary for someone we like, but not for someone we don't like.

"What about places like Sudan? The US is increasingly offering to help the African Union deal with conflicts and has farmed out some of this work to private security companies. Isn't that mercenarism as defined by this legislation?"


Moderator: I know not directly aviation related, but I think of great interest to those operating in Africa.

[B Sousa]

Moderator: I know not directly aviation related, but I think of great interest to those operating in Africa.
Not so fast. Lots of SA folks including Aviation types are up north working in Afghanistan and Iraq for the United States. It could really have a profound effect on them.
I cross my fingers that if the current SA regime decides to go after them that the U.S. will provide green cards....As they have done for so many others .. In fact it should be done anyway...

[farmpilot]

As I understand they do get something with their DOD card. But it's not a Green Card.

I really don't see how Pretoria can track these guys and there are lots of them working up there, thousands of them.

Good luck to them, they're doing a very good job there

[B Sousa]

As I understand they do get something with their DOD card
DOD card is only good for the job. Im saying once its over, if they have problems in SA Im hoping Uncle Sam wont turn his back. He has done that before in Vietnam. Of course we didnt learn much there either.

[pongopilot]

Now this is the part I don't understand. There is quite a few security companies that has been operating in Africa for a number of years and to date, nobody has even mentioned them or charged them etc.

You get a few (and quite a few) ex army, police etc people to join a legal security company that provides security work in Iraq, and the guys will get prosecuted.

What am I missing? Is it ok to work in Africa but not ok to work in any other part of the world. What about South African people that provided security work in London or even Bosnia. a couple of years ago.

The fact that you can join an armed struggle and a terrorist orrganisation is fine, but just don't join a legal security company. It is the same for our road rules. You can drive in the eyellow lane, drive an unroadworthy vehicle , overload the vehicle, buy your locence etc but nevver drive 70 km/h in a 60 zone, and you will experience the full force of the law.

Maybe the fact that most of the guys that work in the security industry comes from the "old era" has got something to do with the prosecution. Maybe, one day when they come back , they could become the Metro Police at some corrupt metro.

To the guys in Iraq, go for it. You doing a good job.

[farmpilot]

I agree with you Bert, especially as some of the boys are driving US officers!

[I.R.PIRATE]

I am very interested to see where this one is going, because it will surely affect the lives of a great number of South Africans, including pilots. I am affraid to say that all I can read out of this move, is that its just another way to prosecute " the man ". As we all know, none of us working outside are really involved in any real mercenary activities, but merely making a living for ourselves. Methinks they hate the fact that we earn elsewhere, dont pay tax, and can make a living without having to grovel at their gravy stained feet. SO ... you can be freedom fighter then eh.....? But only in country run by the brutthas..?? mmm, wonder whos up for that then.........


F@#%$$g idiots

[Hobgoblin]

Im saying once its over, if they have problems in SA Im hoping Uncle Sam wont turn his back. He has done that before in Vietnam. Of course we didnt learn much there either.

I don't think the Yanks can teach SA anything about that. Anyone remember a certain SA Police unit that got thrown to the wolves a while ago?

To all the guys elsewhere doing a good job, for what it's worth, you have my best wishes. Good luck.

[Parrot]

As a matter of interest, does anyone know if other countries have laws like this ?
Also, does this then make a criminal out of a South African citizen who joins for example the RAF ? (I would assume to join the RAF you need to become a Brit citizen first ... but then what is your status in SA ? .. a criminal ?)

[Gunship]

In the hey-day of the War in SL we had a SAS Lt .. needed a year to get his Brit citizenship and pienk passport.

Amazing - a Saffer in charge of a massive ops.

His Seargent - well he was a Rhodesian (as he said) :E

[Stayinalive]

Yeah...no doubt this is a way ol Thabo can protect his old time buddy Bob up north in Zim.
Putting Whiteys out of legitimate work is nothing new....just a strategy to protect the interests of the ones holding the stick. Just watch out for the single pilot scenario.....no doubt they will want us to fill da planes just like they want us now to start filling da cars and ban single drivers....hogwash..what a joke. Downhill from here....:{

[Deanw]

The Portfolio Committee on Defence invites individuals and organisations to submit written comments on the
Prohibition of Mercenary Activity and Prohibition and Regulation of Certain Activities in an Area of Armed Conflict Bill, 2005 [This version is as approved by Cabinet but before the State Law Advisors have finalised it].

Please note: The final version of the Bill will only be tabled on approximately 24 October.

The hearings are scheduled for 8 and 9 November 2005 and the written submissions should be submitted by 31 October 2005. You may be requested to give verbal evidence before the Committee on the basis of your submission.

Submissions can be addressed to Mr G Campher, PO Box 15, Cape Town 8000 (tel. (021) 403 3714)
Email [email protected]

The Bill can also be accessed at: http://www.pmg.org.za/bills/051013MercenaryBill.htm

[Deanw]

Please note that the dates for the following public hearings have been rescheduled to Tues, 01 November and Wed, 02 November 2005, from 09:00-17:00


The Portfolio Committee on Defence invites individuals and organisations to submit written comments on the Prohibition of Mercenary Activity and Prohibition and Regulation of Certain Activities in an Area of Armed Conflict Bill, 2005 [This version is as approved by Cabinet but before the State Law Advisors have finalised it].

Please note: The final version of the Bill will only be tabled on approximately 24 October.

Written submissions should be submitted by 31 October 2005. You may be requested to give verbal evidence before the Committee on the basis of your submission.


The Bill can also be accessed at: http://www.pmg.org.za/bills/051013MercenaryBill.htm

Submissions can be addressed to Mr G Campher, PO Box 15, Cape Town 8000,(tel. (021) 403 3714) ,Email [email protected]

[lambert]

TAKE NOTICE ALL PILOTS, ENGINEERS, DIRECTORS, OFFICERS AND EMPLOYEES OF CONTRACT COMPANIES.

THIS ACT IS AIMED AT YOU TOO!!!!!!

I suggest that you actually read all the hogwash intended to become the act because they have also defined humanitarian aid and if you want to perform it you will have to apply for dispensation.

Don't just ignore this thread, it does not only apply to security types in Iraq, and yes, if you want to join the RAF you will have to get similar dispensation - which will lapse immediately you get involved in a conflict.

This will also apply to non-SA citizens "normally resident in SA".

The implications of this act are very far reaching.

Unless you want to join the PLO!

[longtom]

good call Lambert, you are absolutely right. This foolishness has the potential to cause problems for a great number of us in the industry.Does anybody have any ideas of how best to approach this one ? Should we be making an effort to form a united front against this ?
By extension , this act of law seems to make South Africa a state that supports terrorism, which is shameful enough ( but not altogether surprising ) , but I think we need to formulate a plan to put up a fight against this.

[reptile]

We certainly do need a united front to tackle an issue like this. Such a front already exists in the form of ALPA. The voice of ALPA is recognised by government and would certainly be the most productive channel to address this issue.

[African Tech Rep]

My 2cents worth – you should all write individually whilst at the same time arranging a “united front” – times short.

I’ve only just got round to reading the proposed act and just realised what could be it’s consequences.
I was involved in a small way getting a helicopter to Sri Lanka for the tsunami relief – there is a “conflict” in that country so Technically under section 5 (1) it could be said I was involved in the “rendering” of humanitarian assistance for which I would have needed an Authorisation.
True – for what I actually did it would be stretch for them “to get me” – but had I gone as engineer (or pilot or ops if I had those qualifications) it would definitely have applied – despite the fact I am only a resident and the helo isn’t SA reg.

Interestingly I would also need SA to give me permission to join the armed force of the country which I am a citizen of – but if I actually fought I would be breaking SA law – Section 4 – any Yanks living here still on reserve ? get called up for a tour and your in trouble here.

It also seems to me they (the SA govt) gets to determine too much – maybe the UN should be mentioned as the people who determine if an “armed conflict” is in place or not.

As with most laws it needs reading on a deep’ish level thinking about how it could be interpreted as affecting you – don’t just look at the words think how the could be interpreted by a lawyer who doesn’t like you.

[napoleon]

The South African team carrying out humanitarian work in the aftermath of the earth quake in the Kashmir are in full contravention of the act. Kashmir is a conflict area so the team might have to face the Scorpions when they return.

[longtom]

Very glad to see that there is a great deal of unity on this one.... one of the reasons that there are so many South African companies working in both the aviation and security fields in various " areas of conflict " is that they are so well regarded in those fields.Let's not let the bureau-prats put a stop to this work.
I can understand the government wanting to stop foolish episodes like the coup attempt in Equatorial Guinea, and apparently that is what this bill was aimed at originally...but now it is trying to go too far. Also, the mind boggles at the bills' cretinous reference to "freedom fighters ".... what the hell ? The South African government must be very careful of what they are saying on this one : tacitly or overtly supporting Islamic extremism isn't a great idea these days.... and that seems to be what the bill is hinting at, or am I over-reacting ?

Anyhow, I feel very strongly that we must all push our bosses in the industry to stand together on this

[MysticFlyer]

But that is what it's intended to do!

Let's face it, SA has a majority government in place, whose previous leader could've been let out of jail, long before he was, if he denounced violence/ terrorism (for which he was put in jail - explosives tonnes thereof, Handwritten manuscript: How to be a good Communist - not because of his skincolour), but refused.

Instead an armed struggle (people shot in the back while sitting in a church service or at a pub - freedom fighters, farmers killed by landmines, bombs in public places etc.) is still raging. Away from home, these guys are making money as opposed to affirmative action restricting them in SA and there they can't be killed in their houses!

Laws are passed by the drop of a hat because of this majority government whose main characters are members of the SACP (Communist Party) now having a DEMOCRATIC government.

How can they slap Bob on the fingers when ANC headquarters for long had an address there. Bite the hand that fed them for so long?

It's really getting out of hand!:yuk:

[lambert]

Spoke to the British High Commission today. They are now advising all prospective candidates for the British Military (and Navy!) that if they join up they will not be able to go into combat. Therefore they will not be accepted.

So now they will have to give up SA citizenship and even then will never be able to come back into SA if they have been in combat (this actually includes anybody who has been in a combat zone).

There are approx 1500 South Africans in the UK military - they will all have to give up SA citizenship or come home (to what??)

Not to mention SA Jews in Israel, US dual citizens, Greek dual citizens, etc. I suppose it wont apply to Palistinian dual citizens though!

Is this the thin edge of the wedge?

There is much more to this bill than meets the eye!

Funny though, in terms of this bill, even the SA Military will have to get approval to go into a combat zone?? Duuh.

Democracy = the tyranny of the masses.

[MysticFlyer]

Meknows,

The definition of democracy: Three wolves and a sheep, discussing what's for......... lunch.

So Bush is now elevated to Prophet: God told him in a dream to attack Iraq.

Why didn't he just say so! He had a terrible amount of people there from all over the world looking for WoMD! Charlie bin Laden is still ever so evasive and still quite a nuisance, the attention shifted so quickly....

Who is his god, Hades (Pluto)?

[Deanw]

Mercenary bill: Govt holds fire
08/11/2005

Cape Town - The Democratic Alliance has welcomed the government's recognition that the mercenary bill is flawed.

Since the draft bill was first tabled, the DA's defence MP, Rafeek Shah, said he had been inundated with calls from concerned citizens who would be criminalised overnight if the bill was passed.

Shah said: "If left unchanged, the bill will criminalise anyone who is employed in legitimate private security work overseas.

"At the same time, it will allow individuals to participate in terrorist activity."

His comments followed a briefing by Defence Minister Mosiuoa Lekota to the defence portfolio committee at parliament.

He said a number of changes to the Prohibition of Mercenary Activity Bill were necessary, including possibly changing the bill's name.

Pitfalls in the draft exposed

Lekota said parliament could not pass a bill that was unconstitutional, as he believed certain aspects of the present draft were.

He said the experience of having so many South Africans working in Iraq as security guards had exposed pitfalls in the draft.

"Some of our citizens go to Iraq. They say they are employed by security companies.

"By the nature of the war, by the nature of the conflict there, people often find themselves in situations that are difficult. What do we do with that when suddenly you find your citizens in a situation where they lose their lives," he said.

Shah said he welcomed Lekota's attitude.

Public hearings on the bill will start next year.

News24

[AfricanSkies]

Its not aimed at whites, you are all forgetting our black comrades who served in SF in the old days. Our Portuguese speaking friends. I fly lots of them in and out of Iraq every day. In my opinion its just another knee-jerk reaction of our 'government' to pressure from other African leaders. These guys are understandably a bit concerned that their rules of tyranny may be cut short by a splintering door and a flash-bang at 4am. So they get on the phone to Thabo and request that he collars his dogs please. And another law is tabled at the drop of a hat. More of this coming.

The vast majority of the voting majority in SA are ignorant of 95% of the actions of the government, so what you essentially have is a cabal in power, financed by the minority who they have no responsibility to!

[MysticFlyer]

You see how "clever" these clots are?

Piss enough of these type of chaps off, bring them back home, and voila, another Thatcher-type guy could upset the applecart right on their doorstep.:eek:

Hey, a lot may do it for free
Other threads are rife with racial cries, warmongering, after what's happening in Europe....where's my Georgie-boy, Bert....Cheetah....? Anyone....? Orstralia?:*

Of hoe praat ek nou Baas? :E

[African Tech Rep]

They have enough power to pass anything – but if we don’t make the calls and send letters we shouldn’t really complain after the fact.

One thing to remember is Mr M’s future plans which seem to be UN / AU, especially if the former he has to at least give a front of listening and doing things – he can’t be seen to streamroller things through.

[Baas]

Mistic F.

Going to be fun and games...!

Klomp water moet nog in die dam loop.....!

"watch this space..!"


Baas.

[crause]

[SIZE=4]:} ****3M !! AIDS WILL GETEM AND THE OLD HERE17 BOYS WILL B IN CHARGE AGAIN , ****3M.

THERE ARE ONLY 2 INDUSTRIES IN THIS WORLD MEN ARE ALL MERCS AND WOMEN ARE ALL "BMW":ok: AND POLETICS ARE FOR THE ONES INBETWEEN:ok: