NATS career structure

[glidingRich]

Hi,

Can someone please explain the career development structure within NATS, or direct me to where the info is available?

many thanks.

[BEXIL160]

Rich, I know it was a serious question but..... please explain the career development structure within NATS thanks for giving me the biggest laugh that I've had in ages :) :)

Okay, I'll give you the proper answer now I've stopped giggling. For the vast majority of ATCOs within NATS there is no career development structure whatsoever, nor has there ever been. All that "investors in people" and all the other buzz word crap is for others, not the operational fraternity. Once an ATCO, that's about it. You might get the odd unit move or two (or lots more in my case:rolleyes: ), but as I say, thats about it.

Now, I'm not being negative. I still very much enjoy being an operational controller and have no desire to spend time tied to a desk or getting to a destination. Being an ATCO is my career, so I'm a happy bunny.

How to put the next bit? Over the years I have seen "ATCOs" who really wanted to be managers. Generally they couldn't get their headsets off quick enough to join the suits and their desks. These people are not held in high esteem by their ex colleagues, though I doubt very much wether they realise it at all.

My opinion. Stick to being "just" an ATCO. Forget any pretentions about career structures.

Rgds BEX

[Pierre Argh]

Career ka'rie(r) / n & v. 1. To go rapidly down hill

[glidingRich]

Glad to be of help :)

Are there any promotion opportunities while still keeping a headset on? Like more senior controlling positions. Or does a new ATCO do the same job at the same level throughout the career?

The way you answered it sounds more like a job than a career.

[Gonzo]

After a few years you might become an instructor, training those who arrive from the college. Then depending on the unit, you might become a supervisor, or perhaps an examiner.

[niknak]

GR

Despite the fact that NATS pay better than anyone else in the UK, and their terms and conditions, pensions and working patterns are all better than anyone else in the UK, some of their atco's have an amazing ability to moan like **** about how badly done to they are. But it doesn't say that on the NATS web site, which is where you'll find the information you require.

Career structure's within ATC, certainly within the UK, are almost what you want to make of it.

Get a few years experience under your belt, keep your ear to the ground, do extraneous duties such as assisting with ATC related projects or just make it plain that you are ambitious, and you'll find that doors open and the opportunities will be there.

However, don't underestimate the level of workload required, or the fact that once you are on that ladder, there will always be someone behind you with the same ambition.
Some find it comes naturally - some don't and fall back to day to day controlling.

There are many of us (including me and possibly Bex' :p ) who just enjoy being atco's, doing the job to the best of our ability, getting paid and looking forward to our days off.
I reckon that if you have to work, this is the best job going, what you do with it is up to you.

[Gonzo]

Of course, if you think you have the looks of a movie star, you might appear in a National Geographic TV documentary programme!!!!

[flower]

The way you answered it sounds more like a job than a career.


I suppose it depends what you want out of your working life, mine is to enjoy doing the work i do. I cannot think of any other work I would want to do. Yes i enjoy my time off more, but I genuinely enjoy sticking that headset on and controlling aircraft, that is after all what I joined up to do. I have no desire to control paperwork. thankfully there are those out there who do.
I would never describe ATC as just a job, it isn't however one where many progress beyond a jobbing ATCO but then that is was what most of us simply wish to be.

[Talkdownman]

NATS + career? Depends what cereal packet coupons you cut out. In IBM 9020 language: "Does not merge"......" Fix not on route"........"too few fields"......"Invalid fix". Cynic, or what? Thanks. This thread has given me a good laugh during year 39. Now, where's me 'eadset?

[AlanM]

Of course, if you think you have the looks of a movie star, you might appear in a National Geographic TV documentary programme!!!!
You mean dressing up in a duffle coat and looking like a Geordie Bin man means movie star!!! :)

[Gonzo]

AlanM,

if you think you have the looks of a movie star

I certainly don't think that! Even with the atmospheric gazing into the sunset!

[AlanM]

Good point.

Worth remembering that keeping off PPRUNE probably helps your career........ :)

[Gonzo]

yes, I did notice that there was a direct relationship between Capt. Spunkfarter disappearing from these boards and a certain media friendly ATCO being propelled up the corporate ladder! :p

[BleriotXI]

Flower said:
I would never describe ATC as just a job,



The promotional campaign for ATCO's in Holland has the following slogan:

ATC isn't a job. It's an art.

:ok:

[White Hart]

Gonzo

"Of course, if you think you have the looks of a movie star, you might appear in a National Geographic TV documentary programme!!!!"

And then, following the 'Famous for 15 Minutes' stint, the inevitable and unstoppable slide into Op..oblivion, and the total loss of any Unit 'street cred' once held.:p

Still, I suppose it pays the bills...........




and that's about all it does:hmm:

[peatair]

Looks like things haven't changed a great deal. "Career" ? Depends what you mean. NATS trains and employs people to be ATCOs. Some will become Training Officers, College Instructors, assist with projects etc. Some will rise to the giddy heights of Watch Managers / Supervisors and a few will become Manager ATC of a Unit. That's about it. The very senior management levels of the company tend to be filled by people brought in from outside though, in the past, there were one or two former ATCOs amongst them. Mr Barron is the latest example brought in from outside. If your true ambition lies in administration, then ATC is not the right choice of career for you.

[Captain Spunkfarter]

Gonzo

PPRUNE is like Hotel California. You can check out anytime you like...but you can never leave.

[AlanM]

Spunky....!

Welcome back aboard Captain.

(Personally I like the council worker look mate - makes you look approachable for us oiks!!) :)

[Point Seven]

Spunky

Methinks that it is difficult to check out when you languish in an empty, cold, lonely house apart from some Kleenex and soggy old Cheerios, yet when you log on here you appear to be a bronzed Adonis.

Perchance the Funkraum beckons for this one...?

P7

[Mr Chips]

Peatair
The very senior management levels of the company tend to be filled by people brought in from outside though, in the past, there were one or two former ATCOs amongst them
You are 'kin joking aren't you? One or two ATCOs in senior positions? how about all senior positions until a certain Mr Everitt turned up....

Its interesting to see no real input from the ATSA fraternity on this one.. oh yeah, thats because there really is no career structure for ATSAs. its only been comparatively recently that they trusted ASTSAs enough to manage simulators. Once you reach the giddy heights of ATSA4 there is pretty much NO progression within the ATC discipline. All your bosses will be ATCOs who all worked with each other at other units in the past.

Bitter? me? Good God yes, but by God I'm pleased to be out, and working in an environment where your boss actually says things like "thank you". Shocked me that one....

[Gonzo]

Capt.,

PPRUNE is like Hotel California. You can check out anytime you like...but you can never leave

Thought that was Ops and Training?

[mr.chaps]

Mr Chips I'm sure your bosses say please and thank you as you whisk past laden with trays of delicious steaming ribs and steaks. Not to mention those heavenly frozen Margheritas.

Oh the joy of singing Happy Birthday to a party of celebratory travellers pausing to exclaim 'Thank Goodness Its Friday'.

Sarcasm aside though, I totally agree with you on the subject of NATs management. However, times are changing, we now have the benefit of a highly experienced ex US Special Forces superman taking care of all matters training for new ATSAs. So things are looking up!

[Mr Chips]

On a pedantic note, we don't serve steaks - can't give out steak knives airside y'see... ;)

And we don't do singing either :E

But yes, for the benefit of anyone not knowing what i switched to, I know work for TGI Fridays, and believe me, they have a far far better management team than NATS, and care more about their staff than NATS. I have received far more help and encouragement in 6 months my new job than in the last few years (last year especially) in my old.

Was it worth the change? yes.
Do I have a potential career after all these years? yes
Do I regret my decision? Not one single second since I quit NATS, not one single second.

[Standard Noise]

Nobody told us there was a career structure, or is that just something else they don't want us Brizzel guys to find out!?:confused:

[Tweety]

Ill second Bexils comments at the beginning, there is NO career development in NATS or in any other ATS organisation basically. This isthe sad state of events in all countries. the s**t (those are usually the useless controllers) floats to the top and somehow manages to penetrate this invisible ceiling that most of humans cant seem to penetrate.

Never been able to work that one out after 20 years

[Bumpy]

I'll keep this short. In my involvement with NATS and ATC (in the UK) for 10 years(on and off) I have rarely seen that much self delusion.

How can your training structure be the best in the world if it's a dynamic mess. Delusions of private sector efficiency with soundbites and PR stunts juxtaposed with an apprentice style 'like me/i'm popular' face fits culture at the coalface. And typical European public sector 'yes man', sideways promotion in management.

I must also add that my colleagues and myself laise with many talented NATS staff/management who are well aware of this and do an amazing job as well as being great people.

[Mr Chips]

Errrr Bumpy you have well and truly confused me... I have posted twice on this thread, once slagging off NATS, and the second time slagging off NATS whilst bigging up TGI Fridays (operated by Whitbread in the UK) have you mistaken me for someone who says nice things about NATS?

[Bumpy]

No Mr Chips, I was personally validating your criticism. Everything should be criticised, hopefuly constructively.

I recently was present at a meeting with someone who was involved with Human Factors in NATS. He described a Macho attitude, I disagreed. I know exactly what a macho attitude is through experience.

Through a certain family member and my work I can easily identify self delusion fuelled by greed, desperation, self preservation and in a small percentage love of the job (which I respect a bit)

[ayrprox]

I think that there is a career progression for those that are interested in that sort of thing. its not extensive,
ie for an atco you can become an ojti, almost all do
you can then become an assessor,the next step
then maybe an examiner to carry out boards or LCE who checks the atco's to ensure that they are still working within the rules
but it has to be said that these jobs entail a fair amount of work and are not well rewarded financially at the moment.
on the mangement route at a centre you can become a bank supervisor, looking after the general running of the sectors
next a watch supervisor, then a watch manager but the further you go up the scale the further you get away from doing the job of atco which is why i joined in the first place. in order to gain promotion though you have to jump through a lot of hoops and get the right ticks in the right boxes which to be honest some people just cannot be arsed with.
there's also projects that you can apply to participate in but again there is generally no financial award(unless you are managing it)
just a quick idea of some of what's available but hope it helps