Rivetting SAA 747 Incident Jo'Burg - Mauritius (Two Versions)

[OVERTALK]

SAA aborts Mauritius flight for technical reason

Johannesburg, South Africa, 09/25 - A South African Airways (SAA) flight bound for Mauritius Saturday morning was called off due to a technical reason, the airline confirmed.

"At no stage was any of the 331 passengers on board the Boeing 747-400 in any danger," said Jan Blake, SAA Technical and Operations head.

SA190 departed Johannesburg for Mauritius at 09:39 local time and had to make an in flight turn back 20 minutes later after shear rivets on a small panel inside door two on the upper deck failed and the panel opened.

"To the best of our knowledge this is the first-time an incident of this nature occurred on the worldwide Boeing 747-400 fleet," Blake said.

SAA said it would report this incident to the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) and Boeing as this may result in a one-time inspection of the Boeing 747-400 fleet.

The passengers will stay overnight in Johannesburg to depart again tomorrow morning, the airline said.

link (http://www.angolapress-angop.ao/noticia-e.asp?ID=377541)

_________________________________________________
Apparently passengers (334 of them) on a SAA 747-400 service to Mauritius yesterday had a very unpleasant experience when a decompression panel blew 20 minutes in to the flight. The aircraft descended from approx 12 000m to approx 3 000m and returned to Johannesburg for a safe landing.

Apparently this is the 1st incident of it's type anywhere in the world on a 747-400. The aircraft was scheduled to depart again for Mauritius this morning.

[Belgique]

<<Emotions were also running high because no oxygen apparently flowed from the masks that came down from the panels above their heads.>>


'I heard a loud bang'
26/09/2005 08:48 - (SA)


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Johannesburg - "I thought the plane would fall. It sounded as if the door was going to blow out."

This was the reaction of a shocked Gary Lang on Sunday after a Boeing 747-400 of South African Airways (SAA) had to turn back to Johannesburg to perform an emergency landing on Saturday morning. Lang was one of 331 passengers on flight SA 190 to Mauritius.

The jumbo jet turned back about 20 minutes into the flight because an inside panel of a door on the top deck came undone.
"I heard a loud bang and suddenly it became very cold on the plane. The oxygen masks fell from the roof and the captain announced that he would be dropping the plane to 10,000 feet so that we could breathe more easily," another passenger, Robert Ferley, said.

He and his wife were on their way to Mauritius to celebrate their 25th wedding anniversary. "My wife, Gertrude, prayed throughout. It was very quiet on the plane."

The disappointed passengers were waiting in lines before the airport building on Saturday afternoon, waiting for busses to take them to hotels in the area.

"Bad, bad, bad. They should have made sure that the plane was in order. The crew members were also incompetent. They made us wait on our baggage for four hours and they simply turned their backs to us when we asked what was going on," an angry Teresa Barnard said.

Emotions were also running high because no oxygen apparently flowed from the masks that came down from the panels above their heads.

"The flight was scheduled to leave at 13:30, but was cancelled eventually because the crew was apparently too traumatised," Ilse Shenck, said. Two families who were on their way to assist in their children's wedding arrangements as well as the best man and flower girls, were frustrated as they were standing around.
"My son is getting married on Monday. If I am lucky, I'll be in time," Denise Hollander said.

Sarah Uys, SAA spokesperson, said it was the first time that something like this happened on a Boeing 747-400 flight.

"SAA will report this incident to the Civil Aviation Authorities (CAA) and Boeing. It could prompt an inspection of the entire 747-400 fleet," Uys said.

Regarding the alleged lack of oxygen from the asks, Uys said it had not been necessary to use the masks.

Gilbert Thwala, chief executive of case investigations at the CAA, said on Sunday that a preliminary investigation has already been launched. "The plane apparently experienced pressure problems during the flight. At this stage, it seems as if there was a problem with a cabin door."

[Wizofoz]

Regarding the alleged lack of oxygen from the asks, Uys said it had not been necessary to use the masks.

Leaving the sensationalist reporting aside, this is rubbish. If they weren't needed, they wouldn't have deployed.

[ExSimGuy]

And if they automatically deployed, wouldn't the O2 Generators have automatically started?? :confused:

[Rockhound]

Maybe none of the pax pulled the mask to their face to get the O2 flowing?
Rockhound:p

[Gerard123]

Lets not forget that pax never listen to the safety briefing......."the bag will not inflate"

How can they tell there was no ox did they pass out :p

I'm so sick of this bull**** from passengers :*

[Swedish Steve]

And if they automatically deployed, wouldn't the O2 Generators have automatically started


All the B747-400 I know have a gaseous pax oxygen system. I think you can have generators, but generators are no good over the Himalayas so most operators go for bottles. (Lots of them!) All joined together in the sidewall of the rear freight. They can be turned On Off or Auto on the Overhead panel in the cockpit.

[ExSimGuy]

Steve,

At risk of being pedantic, and being accused of highjacking threads, why would generators be no use over the himalayas?

I though that chem generators were used on all a/c (apart from the drivers and the emergency O2 bottles)

Can you enlighten me?

(Old, and not up-to-date!)

[Sunfish]

So Gerard, you are "sick of this bull**** from passengers"?

Has it ever crossed your mind that to a non technically literate person in a state of fright might not remember something?

Has it ever crossed your mind that their interpretation of events might be slightly different from yours? Especially when it is told to a reporter?

Obviously not.

Sounds to me like some of you need a BS system installed in your cockpits that administers a severe electric shock when pilots talk about "Self Loading Freight" and similar derogatory talk about the people who generate their paychecks.

[Swedish Steve]

Oxygen generators will only generate oxygen for about half an hour. This is ample time for most aircraft to descend to 10000ft. But over the Himalayas you can be more than half an hour away from a safe height of 10000ft. I remember when BA used to fly B767 over a mountainous region (B767 have generators) and we had to load boxes and boxes of portable oxygen bottles.

[ExSimGuy]

SS - Thanks for that - yes, I take the point about the time to get clearof "high bits"

Sunfish - Hey! I'm SLF these days and proud of it! None of the guys (or gals) that I have ever known have derogatrory feelings towards the pax (well, the reasonably behaved ones anyway ;) ) - but we're always known as SLF. That refers to several "drivers, airframe" that I have known, quite a few "trolley dolleys" or "pilots groundsheets". My own much-loved daughter was a AA "flying waitress". (but there'd better not have been a pilot who used her as a groundsheet ;) )

f we can use the "tags" light-heartedly, then there's no offence.

Some "PC" persons may think so - but let's accept our roles in life and get on with it :uhoh:

Remember - this is JetBlast:E

[FlexibleResponse]

Some years ago we had an A340 depressurize and we heard the same pax complaints about lack of oxy flow. The investigation revealed that the flow rate of oxy supply from compressed gaseous bottles is regulated according to cabin altitude. As the cabin altitude is reduced during the rapid descent the flow is reduced to near zero below about 14,000 ft. The pax can interpret this as a failure of the oxy supply.

It should also be noted that the oxy that is supplied is “supplemental oxy” to make up for the reduced amount of oxy available at the lower partial pressures experienced. That is to say, don’t expect flow similar to that from a scuba tank. It isn’t going to happen! This small supplemental flow may not be noticeable (and sometimes apparently isn’t) to a panicked and possibly hyperventilating pax.

You know the drill. Place the mask over the face, and breathe normally! The small supplemental flow will work its magic.

When at a safe altitude the Captain should remember to tell the pax to remove the oxy masks (this will prevent pax from turning blue trying to suck out non-existent oxy flow that has been regulated to zero due low cabin altitude!).

(I should add that the cockpit oxy system is completely different from the pax oxy in both supply source and principal of operatioon. It can also supply diluted oxy, 100% oxy and at overpressure.)

[Danny]

Just to verify for the pedants amongst the readership that the B744 does not have an oxygen generating system for the pax. The pax oxygen is bottled and supplied to the pax oxygen system.

As far as I'm aware, the bag on pax oxygen systems isn't supposed to inflate to indicate that oxygen is available. It is supposed to inflate when you exhale and is then partially reinhaled together with some oxygen. I think the only way you would know there is no oxygen would be when you start going blue and hypoxic or you check the gagues of the oxygen available on the status page of the EICAS.

[Witraz]

Anyone consider any of the following: ie the weight of the aircraft, verus 20 minutes into flight, so what height were they at when this happened, ie, below cruising altitude, a decent to 10 000' may not have been that drastic. Too many facts missing to pass judgement

[Safety Guy]

Anyone consider any of the following: ie the weight of the aircraft, verus 20 minutes into flight, so what height were they at when this happened, ie, below cruising altitude, a decent to 10 000' may not have been that drastic. Too many facts missing to pass judgement

Actually, the report above said they were at 12,000 metres (FL390) when the blowout panel let go.

[fluffyfan]

This is what I heard today

The aircraft was in the cruise about 1 1/2 hours out of jhb, the upper deck doors are not plug type doors and there are blowout panels on these doors to stop the door actually blowing out in case something fails. The panel blew out, nothing too severe (not a rapid decompression), they decended to a safe altitude prob about 12 000 - 10 000 and returned to jhb, the O2 maskes only deployed about half way in the descent because there is lots of air in a jumbo like that and it takes a while for the air to escape also 4 engines trying to supply air, and yes the masks were supplying air.

Apparently the cabin crew did a brilliant job, the passengers probably dont understand what they were trying to do and anyone who has watched them training will know that they shout "SIT DOWN" "REMAIN SEATED" "FASTEN SEAT BELTS" etc that kind of stuff, they train that way and it was very noisy, I can see how a passenger would think it was chaos........but you have to understand passengers do odd things like look for there wallets or passports in the overhead bins etc......

So basically the system worked, the blow out panel failed (there may be a little controversy as to why it failed....sounds like it could have been a maintenance issue), the crew did there jobs well and everyone is fine........no big deal, but of course to the average passenger who gets fed all sorts of rubbish from the press it must have been frightening.....

[Gerard123]

Sunfish has it ever occured to you that the safety briefing is designed to be simple and to the point? You don't have to be technically literate and have an elephants memory to understand and remember that when the hostie says " the bag will not inflate", that 20 mins later maybe she meant the bag attached to your identical looking oxygen mask ????

I realise the pax pay our salaries etc. but comments that are made to bash the airlines without thought put into them in combination with reporters sensationalist style can do a lot of damage.

[ou Trek dronkie]

Danny,

I don't want to be pedantic about this, but where would Pprune be without us pedants ?

oTd

[Ibex]

Don't worry about Sunfish, he is a regular amateur with often misguided and inflated opinions about lots of things aviation backed up by a few hours in a warrior.

While not knocking your enthusiasm or obvious passion for our profession sunfish, if pilots on this forum wish to state "I am sick of hearing bull**** comments from passengers" then that's their prerogative and right to do so.

No one expects the SLF to be instantly aware of technical matters or the background behind decisions made by flight crew but it is frustrating to see outrageous quotes or demands from passengers after an event

If professionals on this forum like to let off a bit of steam while talking shop that’s what we’ll do. Don’t berate us for doing so and in return we won’t make misguided comments about specific matters within your chosen profession without the proper qualifications or experience to back it up!

Thanks :ok:

[GlueBall]

Swedish Steve ...it wouldn't take "one-half" hour to clear the Himalya mountain range; more like 15 minutes from Mt. Everest southbound to lower terrain of northeast India or Bangladesh. We never carrry "extra bottles" when routing over high terrain. :oh:

[RevMan2]

Read somewhere that LH is outfitting their entire 744 and 340-600 flights with extra O2 flasks to enable them to take advantage of L888.

[Gerard123]

Thanks Ibex :)
...

[Beausoleil]

No one expects the SLF to be instantly aware of technical matters or the background behind decisions made by flight crew but it is frustrating to see outrageous quotes or demands from passengers after an event



I feel your pain.

But think yourself lucky. If your job was like mine, at the end of every flight they'd hand out feedback forms to the SLF asking them to rate your airmanship. And if you got less than 70% approval there'd be big trouble.

A little griping on your bulletin board is nothing.

[wiggy]

GlueBall
Mt Everest isn't the problem here, none of the airways I know of in that area route over the big one. However the whole Tibetan plateau is (a) bleedin big and (b) bleedin high. If you have a decompression in that area it will take you a considerable period of time to reach an area where the MSAs allow you to descend to 14k or less, hence the comments from others about sopplementary Oxygen on some routes.