Age vs experience

[Frunobulax]

I'm 31 and I have been a licensed ATCO for 7 years now. The question should probably go to my older/more experienced colleagues or even the retired ones; I was just wondering what was/is/will be the peak moment of your careeer?

My 7 years of experience is quite enough to be an OJTI (whom I am in fact), but certainly not enough to be thoroughly experienced; in other words: I haven't seen it all.
On the other hand being far away from my retirement makes me hope I will still develop in terms of mental abilities.

I hope no one finds my words offensive, the truth is that being 60 no one is as fast in thinking as being 20 ; however being 60 you are certainly richer in experience than all the young guns combined.

What is the breaking point? Has anyone (Eurocontrol? NATS? DFS?) made any research on this subject?

[niknak]

If you're honest with yourself and unit training officers and colleagues are honest with you, you'll know when you've had enough.

That said, it entirely depends on the environment you are working in and what pressures, on and off the job, there are upon you.
Ive seen some very good atcos do their job with the utmost competence well into their late 50s and I've seen some who just cant cope beyond the age of 45. But equally and most sadly, I've seen two "burn out" before they were 30.

As you get older, usually, but not always, as the unit becomes busier the harder it is to adapt to new scenarios - conversely the more experience you have, the easier it is to cope with the unexpected situations which may happen at a moments notice.

I can't see how any amount of research would give a precise answer to the question, experience and age works both ways.

[Frunobulax]

Oh, I didn't expect an exact number, rather hoped for some personal experience.

[A I]

Probably radar at West Drayton before it all got regulated out of existence. Fun but decidedly risky!!

A I :ok: :ok: :ok:

[Bern Oulli]

Speaking from experience, being an old, retired, past-it ATCO, there are two competency curves here. There is the "young brain lightning speed of thought" slowly descending curve, and the "years of experience" ascending curve. Yes, the thinking processes do slow down as you age BUT this is compensated for by the growing bag of experience.

However, there comes a point where experience ceases to make up for the speed of thought (or lack of it), probably where the curves cross, and that is the point to say "OK, I quit". It varies from one individual to another, and it takes a degree of personal honesty to admit it to yourself.

Frunobulax
I haven't seen it all.

In my experience you have never seen it all! Experience is what you get just after you needed it.

[Heathrowinnit]

Frunobulax has raised an interesting issue here and one which has more questions than answers I suspect.
My own experience (after 34 years in ATC) is that change is good for me, if I stay too long in one place/job/skill then I become a little complacent and less interested in being involved.
I then transfer to another job/place/skill and the whole process of being interested and involved starts again.
I can take the experience I've gained in previous jobs and use them to my (and the company's) advantage to hopefully add to the overall skill base of the team I'm working with.
This might not work for everyone but I feel it's kept me sharper and maximised what potential I've got.
Others may have there own ways of measuring themselves, I'd love to hear them..........:)

Sorry spelling error..."There" should be "their":O :O

[The Real Slim Shady]

Not an ATC-er, merely humble driver airframe.

In any discussion about experience, which generally is accrued via exposure to a variety of situations which manifest themselves over a period time and hence tends to be associated with age, and ability has to take into account one fundamental.

They are vastly different animals: the optimum combination is experience and ability. However, very often one encounters particularly able individuals who are young, and therefore lack experience.

On the other hand, one also meets very experienced people who lack ability.

Experience is all very well: a pilot, for example, with 10,000 hrs may well be a pilot with the same hour repeated 10,000 times.

In the driver airframe world, the core experience can be transferred from type to type, in ATC the same no doubt applies. Just keep absorbing the information and pass it on to the newbies; it all helps them avoid falling in to the same holes we did.

[Tweety]

Hi all

Interesting topic this one and one SErco ME should read a bit.

I totally agree with nik nak, heathrow etc it is different strokes for different blokes or ladies.

We are all different and you will know when you are over the hill and should hang up the headset, if you dont you are an accident waiting to happen.

The other big "killer" in ATC is familiarity and complacency. Heathrow hit the nail on the head with moving to different sectors, localities, positions etc. I have found )after moving to different continents doing basically the same thing but in a different place it has kept the interest up as well as increasing my skill base.

And yes you're right you never have seen it all.

TTFN

[Lifes2good]

Have to agree that a lot of it comes from where you are and what you've seen. The days of being posted to different units after a few years are long gone unless you choose to move on or change jobs. Its an interesting subject perhaps leading on to when we should retire ?? what do people think of 60 or 65 some units are still expecting their staff to continue to the grand old age of 65 is this reasonable ??

[peatair]

Bern Oulli has a good point about the "speed of thought" graph and the "experience" graphs crossing somewhere. That "somewhere" is probably about the late 40s for most people working busy ATC sectors / positions. I remember many seriously struggling beyond age 55.

Shift patterns also take their toll. Typical MMAANNEOOO type cycles are constantly altering the body's circadian rhythms. I believe that there was some limited research undertaken about 20 years ago by Sheffield University regarding the effects of shift patterns on the individual within ATC. Not sure whether the results of that research is in the public domain.

Maintaining job interests is also a vital factor. Changing work tasks can help with this and be a positive experience BUT if it involves relocating then there is considerable stress associated with the move.

[Lon More]

Youth and enthusiasm is no match for age and experience.

[ebenezer]

We live increasingly in a society that encourages and respects the acquisition of knowledge, facts and figures, but has scant regard for wisdom.

Whilst you can acquire knowledge, facts and figures at virtually any adult age, you can't acquire wisdom unless you've several thousand miles on your 'clock'. This probably means that ~ depending on when you started in ATC ~ you're at your prime in the decade +/- 35 to 45, after which increasingly, performance is sustained by a reliance on experience (= wisdom) until inevitably, performance begins to decline after age 50 or-so.

As one O. Wilde once said "Education is an admirable thing but it is worth remembering from time to time, that very little that is worth knowing can be taught..."

;)

[Pierre Argh]

As a Controller I have accepted I've been in the "age & experience" rather than "youth & reaction" bracket for a while...

Looking back on how I used to control (and I'm not sure this is purely experience taking charge)... nowadays I tend to take safer options and take fewer risks? Less haste... more speed (as my old maths teacher used to say) Whether this is sub-conscious reaction to experience, or a more deliberate compensation for lack of reaction... I'm afraid I don't know?

But, to tell you the truth I don't think it makes much difference ... when push comes to shove I think I can wheel and deal as well as I did twenty years ago (NOT the dillusion of middle-age)... in fact I would say I can handle the same rate of traffic, but am probably SAFER when doing it.

Maybe all this proves is that late, late 40's is not over the edge... but what I will say is that I KNOW I don't want to be doing this in 10yrs time... and that's definitely EXPERIENCE speaking.

[Dances with Boffins]

I would just like to say that Bern Oulli may be past it but there are still areas of his tiny little brain that contain more useful experience than a whole room full of twinkly-eyed more youthfull controllers.

There are old pilots, there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots. Holds true for ATCOs.

[ILS 119.5]

When you first start in the industry it is 10% experience and 90% ability. After many years it is 10% ability and 90% experience.

[av8boy]

It’s also useful to remember that attitude is an indicator. There has always been a group of silver-back controllers who still enjoyed what they were doing as they hit 20 or 25 years on the job (a category I find myself in), and they are masters of their craft (a category I HOPE I’m in!). I really enjoy providing a service, and if I can do it better than the customer expected, then I go home quite pleased. This is the case for all of the well-adjusted, aged controllers I’ve ever worked with.

Then there are those who absolutely hate coming to work every day, and they don’t hesitate to let that attitude seep into their work. Those are the people who give the bare minimum—not a penny more. Every time they key the mic they seethe. They are self-destructing—wasting their lives in a job they despise and physically harming themselves. There is no way that these individuals will ever again be at the top of their games.

I think the key is in being honest with yourself. If you’re honest, the peak moment of your career comes (in my experience) about 20 minutes before you start to think that it’s no longer fun to do this for a living. After that you’ll stop learning and growing and caring. You’ll need to find something else to do with your life at that point.

As for experience versus the advantages of youth… for me, it’s not like I now see a situation and say, “I’ve seen that before and I need to do ‘X’,” as much as it is saying, “I’ve seen that before and I was able to work it out without any problems. I am equipped for this and don’t need to be overly concerned.” Then I work my traffic. I’m better at my job now simply because I can focus on the details before me rather than be distracted by having to consider what tool is right for this circumstance or that one. That’s not to say I’m complacent…I find myself more deeply involved now than ever before. I’m glad I’ve got experience. Although I’d like my hair back, I’d never want to be a young ATCer again.

Sorry if that sounded like pontificating. Not intended that way.

Dave