Typhoon in the states

[jwcook]

its not just Rita and Katrina

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/tbirdbcast/efraptor.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/tbirdbcast/efraptor.jpg

[jwcook]

Does anyone know what the Eurofighter Typhoon are doing there?.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/tbirdbcast/Typhoon.jpg

The offer of DACT was apparently turned down by the F/a-22 community ;-).

Cheers

[Davy_MC]

Taxying by the looks of it.

[Impiger]

OEU trials of some sort I would suspect.

[flipflopman RB199]

I'm surprised this has taken so long to get on here, They've been there a few weeks now.

As Impiger said, OEU trials at Nellis, Fallon, then across to China Lake, and Point Mugu to meet up with the Fast Jet & Weapons OEU, who will be out there too.

[tug3]

http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/blackeye/comeandgetsome.gif

Dear F22

"Come an av a go if you think yer ard enough!"

Rgds
T3

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/travesmilies/flaggen1/smilie_flagge3.gif

(Edited for political correctness!)

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/travesmilies/flaggen1/smilie_flagge6.gif http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/travesmilies/flaggen1/smilie_flagge4.gif http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/travesmilies/flaggen1/smilie_flagge9.gif

[jwcook]

Typhoon rumour rebuttal, an official has apparently commented on recent rumours of an 80 mile lockon against an f-22 at Nellis , and someone throwing a fit!!, isn't it a bit unusual for officials to make this kind of rebuttal?


"Eurofighter Radars Didn't Spot F/A-22s
Aviation Week & Space Technology
10/03/2005, page 23

Edited by David Bond
Printed headline: Eurorumor Mill

Unconfirmed reports--that is, rumors-- making the rounds in European aerospace industry circles contend that Royal Air Force Eurofighter Typhoons, temporarily operating from Nellis AFB, Nev., were able to pick up U.S. Air Force F/A-22s on their radars, stealth notwithstanding. Similar reports appeared during the 1991 Iraq war concerning the ability of British ships, using large radar arrays, to detect the F-117 and, in later conflicts, the B-2. U.S. officials confirm that the Typhoons were at Nellis to fly with the 422nd Test & Evaluation Sqdn. However, they discount that the Typhoons had seen an F/A-22 in full-configuration stealth. First, they say, the Typhoons and F/A-22s were never in the air at the same time. Second, the F/A-22s always have an enhanced signature for positive air control, except when they go to war or when the range has been cleared for F/A-22-only operations"

Hmmm.... "enhanced signature for positive air control, except when they go to war or when the range has been cleared for /a-22 only operations"!!!, So the F/a-22's beat 5 x F-15's with radar reflactors attached, and the F-15 still didn't see them!!.

Now thats seriously impressive.

Cheers

[Toxteth O'Grady]

Second, the F/A-22s always have an enhanced signature for positive air control

Isn't that called switching on the IFF? :8

:cool:

TOG

[ORAC]

Raised my eyebrows at an article in the latest Smithsonian magazine when it quoted a F/A-22 pilot as claiming he achieved aircraft detection ranges in excess of 320nm. Now that, if true, is seriously impressive.......

[BEagle]

Not really, ToG. The F-117 has a similar radar signature device for overt ATC requirements.

As for the 'US Officials', the words of Mandy Rice-Davies spring to mind.

If the Raptor is only permitted to use its whoopy-do Romulan cloaking device when there's no-one else in the range, how on earth do they know that the Typhoon can't see it when it's operating in its stealthy guise?

What's the lock-on range like against the Aurora, I wond... Aargh, black Omegas and people in shades :cool: outside!

[Kolibear]

Its all very well having the radar signature of a sparrow, but how many sparrows fly at 600kts?

Bit of a give-away I reckon.

It reminds me of a story from WW2, Allied light bombers used to range over Northern France, escorted by flocks of fighters, in a attempt to draw the Luftwaffe up. These ops were very successful, except on the occassion when the bombers stayed at home and the fighters went out alone. On these occassions, the Luftwaffe stayed firmly eathbound.

After some deep thought, the question was asked 'does a bomb have a radar signature?' Much experimentation took place and the answer came back - 'No'.

At this point someone asked "What speed do the bombers fly at? "
"about 120kts"
"And how fast do the fighters fly, if they are alone?
" about 300Kts"

[Soiled Glove]

Its all very well having the radar signature of a sparrow, but how many sparrows fly at 600kts?

WTF?? If you can't see it you can't tell it is going 600kts! or M1.8 for that matter.

On Red Flag some F-117s were locked up by the F3 no less - they were returning from the range and had switched on their anti-anti-cloaking device. During debrief the crew were asked to leave the room and were questioned by a Col on what and why etc - there is a lot that goes on in those ranges that we can only guess the half of - especially when the US only Flags take place!

[Daysleeper]

Its all very well to say "this aircraft has the radar signature of a sparrow." Perhaps we have a radar capable of seeing sparrows (african or european is fine) at 100 miles. Then eliminate all those going under 200kts and voila.:}

[The Helpful Stacker]

I believe it was African or European Swallows.

Still, it could carry it by the husk.;)

[Soiled Glove]

Daysleeper (or Daydreamer should that be) - sounds like you should be working for a large company in Edinburgh!

My simplistic understanding of radar - to detect sparrows need a short wavelength, short wavelengths have poor power transmission so need a big transmitter and big antennae which don't fit into the radome of a fighter aircraft. To detect stealth need radar returns above the noise floor and that given only a moderate power output in a fighter there isn't suficient returns until close range to detect a target above the ambient noise levels. Sure you can tweak all you want with wiggly amps, but the fact remains if you haven't got a massively powerful radar, a stealth aircraft (or a sparrow) will always be seen at short range.

So stealth is the way forward if you can't train a sparrow to carry and shoot AMRAAMs at the bad guys.

SG

PS - Time for some F4 blah about how they used to track Sparrows (Aim 7 variety) all the time!

[mfaff]

If the Americans had any sense.. and chances are they do.. then the F22 is going to be 'visible' at all times whilst 'others' are playing... so that they can be seen...always helpful and to prevent anyone even knowing what the non enhanced return is like.. regardless...

Even if they are not airborne at the same time prudence would dictate that the 22s are operated in normal mode...why give anyone the knowledge...

However between seeing it and being able to do anything about it there is a world of difference,, you can see it perhpas, may be even track it but could you get a guidance system to lock on? Or perhpas use the tracking to slave an optical tracker? Who knows.. but like seeing car headlights in the distance, useful yes...you know something is there, but until its close you have no idea of what/how it is......

Sad tho that all that money has been spent and at least ancedotally it does not seem to have delivered the announced goods...

[orca]

Just in case i am being stupid.....

Both the UK and USA had their Wonder Toys on the same range at the same time.
One was able to detect the other at a range of 80 miles, and then using an onboard sensor, or a declaration from a control agency, was able to classify it as 'the other wonder toy'.
Then the pilot got down and started talking about it.

Can't decide out of all four steps which is the least likely...but they all seem pretty far fetched to me.

[Navaleye]

Well I hope they are stealthier than fully operational F117. Easy meat for a Type 1022 long range air search radar.

[PPRuNeUser0139]

soiled glove

Check your pm

sv

[Widger]

Easy meat for a Type 1022 long range air search radar.


Zzzzzzzzzzzzzziiiiippp! Ooooh there go me nads!!

[jwcook]

Does anyone know if the statement from an unnamed USAF official that the the Typhoons and F/A-22s were never in the air at the same time is true.

I'm getting several distinctly differing answers!!, including F-16 fuel tank tests etc etc....

PM me if your erm.... shy ;-).

Ta

[southside]

I know for a fact that a Typhoon and a F/A 22 were in the air at the same time.

But not in the same continent.

[MostlyHarmless]

...and it still saw him? That's some radar...

[Boogeyboard]

I remember reading of a NG 'flying wing' stealthbomber approaching Farnborough air field eight or so years ago presenting a sore-thumb target to Rapier FSC's I/R tracker unit at 18kms.

Similar excuse given by NG at the time. Made the BBC news and front page of the Daily Mail. Headline paraphrased as 'Steathy my ar$e!' or similar.

'They don't like it up 'em Captain Mainwaring'

Reminds me of Mr Invisible in the Mysterymen a la, 'I only become invisible if you shut your eyes - otherwise it doesn't work!

[West Coast]

I also have seen the B2 on radar. Said fact was himhawed to them on freq. Said crew understood the inference and them, poof there was nothing to be seen. The aircraft was part of a flyby for an airshow. I talked to the crew later that day for the next days flyby. I asked them about it and was told it was for ATC purposes, should the TXPONDERs fail they still want the ability to be controlled via primary radar. I'm just a helo guy, so take it with a grain of salt.

[Rudolph Hucker]

Fact: F-15s escort the B-2 bomber in (at least) UK airspace in order to mask any signature recording (radar or IR) by the British boffins in white coats. This followed claims by "us" after the bomber appeared at its first Farnborough (1994?) and was observed. What-was-DERA have a lovely IR camera (this is UNCLAS) as the footage of MiG-29s, etc., have appeared on Discovery on the Yanks were not happy that some foreigners can record such things, even at a public event...

Fact: whilst at Khamis Mushayt during Gulf War 1, dead/stunned bats were found on the hangar floors around the F-117s as their sonar was always deflected by the F-117's "hopeless diamond" design.

Cheers

Rudolph

[Systemessage]

Ouch! So, now the 'sting' of the Hornet has been felt ;-)

Nice take offs btw.....

[Tarnished]

Am I missing something? Have some posts been removed? If not what are you alluding to Systemessage?

BTW anyone else have difficulty getting into page 1 of this thread?

Tarnished

[Gainesy]

No probs with page one.

[egbt]

Slightly off topic but with all this talk of tracking sparrows, I’m going to tell the tale anyway.

Local dignitaries were visiting the hole at Patrington just before it closed c 1971 (I think then commanded by “Ginger” Lacey, who certainly was OC during the closure).

Scope dope (sorry RAF controller :E):

“This radar can detect a door handle at > 100 miles”.
Chief Tech Radar guy:

“if I’d known we were looking for door handles I just wouldn’t have been bothered all these years”.

[Raymond Ginardon]

S-m,

It wasn't a huge surprise (well, for some); if you take one slow, the results are fairly predictable. And it wasn't on the receiving end of all the 'surprises' either now was it (albeit a different recipient)?!

Ray ;-)

[GeeRam]

Local dignitaries were visiting the hole at Patrington just before it closed c 1971 (I think then commanded by “Ginger” Lacey, who certainly was OC during the closure).

Must have been a lot earlier than '71 as 'Ginger' Lacey retired from the service in March 1967.....;)

[Green Flash]

The last I heard Ginger Lacey was flying the drop plane out of Grindale Field (a few mile west of Bridlington). Was a long time ago though.