CAA fails FAA inspection ?????? [Archive]

alwaysinverted

17th Sep 2005, 07:17

VTS, my information is that the FAA did indeed visit with the clowns in Treur Close Waterfall Park.

They (the FAA) were unhappy about the type of person the SACAA were sending on inspections. They (the FAA) alleged that the inspectors are poorly qualified, have no experience and are not on par with the FAA inspectors performing the same duties. (this we all know)

They (the FAA) instructed the SACAA to get their house in order, employ suitably qualified people and make sure that the inspectors they send to the USA on inspections are not some exiled :mad: from Swaziland, Lesotho, Botswana, Nigeria, Uganda etc. employed in South Africa because he has the right skin color. Its common knowledge that the majority of the clowns employed at the SACAA have no friggin clue. For this reason, apparently so, the SACAA Board have decided to re-employ some suitably qualified white faces on a contract basis.

Should they fail, they (the FAA) will not allow any South African registered aircraft into its airspace, and they categorically stated that SAA can then fly its passengers into Mexico, and bus them into the USA. Class act my man, class act!:ok:

It sure will be interesting to see how the situation develops.

Exhaust Manifold

17th Sep 2005, 07:39

It's about time some one gives the CAA a kick up the :mad: . They need a big wake up call, because the standards are dropping and we're soon to become like the rest of Africa.
:(

josh sitanga

17th Sep 2005, 12:01

You are like the rest of Africa, my man!:ok: What's different?:D

ruffusruffcut001

17th Sep 2005, 12:03

VTS
look on this post "crisis looming at SACAA" and you will find a person with a handle of "missouri" and it seems this person has serious inside info or he/she actually works there.

birdlady

18th Sep 2005, 17:39

Thank :mad: for that. At last someone has seen the light. Will it make a difference though? Hopefully yes :hmm: :hmm: Maybe wishfull thinking..............:E :E

B Sousa

19th Sep 2005, 00:04

Place your bets that the only thing that will happen will be the change of the time of Sunset.

Exhaust Manifold

19th Sep 2005, 05:13

You are like the rest of Africa

True but I was refering to the fact that we still have (barely) working nav aids and not as many accidents as the rest of the continent. But that only seems to be for now.

Funny I haven't heard anything about this in the newspapers yet. Government trying to keep it quiet? :confused:

Knoppiesdoorn

19th Sep 2005, 05:17

I see the "CAA Chief" responded on the drama with "moer Laat"

I would like him to say something here as well.

With his aviation background he must have seen the writing on the wall and he allowed it to continue to a where it is today.

Why, why, did you not stop it then, or was it not the right political thing to do.

CAA has a serious problem and I was just wondering whether you want to make a comeback. Some of us who know you and worked with you might support you.

Life'sShort-FlyFast

19th Sep 2005, 07:02

Should the FAA not find suffiecient inprovement, then apparently they downgrade the SACAA. They have recently downgraded Greece and Ghana CAA's. The implication is as suggested above. American airlines will most likely not fly into this airspace and ZS aircraft will not be allowed into US airspace.

I believe that on the previous site, a contributor made the point that with the Soccer World Cup coming up in 2010, perhaps Starlight Cruises will be the only transporter of foreign visitors to our shores!

If the public were made aware of the current situation, I am sure that they would be howling for heads to roll. I guess that is why the 'big' businessmen in this country fly their big private jets on foreign registers?!

alwaysinverted

19th Sep 2005, 13:52

Life's Short-Fly Fast..... You're spot on. The "big boys" keep their airplanes on foreign registers. Norway, the BVI, Luxembourg etc. Toooo ashamed to be seen poling a ZS jet I guess!

Its a fact that the SACAA does'nt know its ar:mad: end from its head. Lots of mistakes. Recently heard that one of the black youngsters employed to become a flight inspector, was sent to a flying school to learn to fly, and had not solo'd in 70 hours of instruction. When the matter was raised at a meeting, the boss said and I quote: "Why worry about him not going solo in 70 hours. He needs 200 hours for a Com so leave him alone. He can solo at any time during the 200 hours of training".

That says it all!

Mind you, some of the idiots at SAA are not any better. The only thing that remains a class act at SAA, are the cockpit crews.

With regards to Trevor Abrahams..... yes, I would like to see him come back to the SACAA. He's the only dude that knows the ins and outs of it, and I believe that he can turn it around. There are people there that hopes he comes back. At least when he was there, there was a bit of discipline. Most of the people that tried to work him out have left the employ of the SACAA. Some were dismissed due to dishonesty, some resigned, and I guess some were fired. The "power struggle of South Africa".

Well come on Minister Radebe, get your department into gear and do something meaningfull for aviation. Put Trevor back in there!:ok: Its time!

birdlady

19th Sep 2005, 16:07

Exhaust - I was wondering the exact same thing. This should have been front page news (well maybe not front page but atleast page 2 or 3 :rolleyes:) I suppose the powers that be dont exactly want this to come out. People are already nervous of air travel can you imagine how they would feel if they knew how badly the standards are slipping - especially maintance standards. The CAA needs to get its act together... I think we are all in agreement here that they need more qualified people... forget colour concentrate on qualifications. Nepitism needs to go as well. Stop whining, get off your ar :mad: and do some work..... and hopefully in a couple of years time we will still have an aviation industry. :E :E :E :ok:

CAACHIEF

19th Sep 2005, 18:13

Hi Knoppiesdoring, I see you wrote:
____________________________________________________
“I see the "CAA Chief" responded on the drama with "moer Laat"

I would like him to say something here as well.

With his aviation background he must have seen the writing on the wall and he allowed it to continue to a where it is today.

Why, why, did you not stop it then, or was it not the right political thing to do”

___________________________________________________
Now my stint as Commissioner did thicken the epidermal layer quite a bit but I don’t believe good rumouring can be built on fiction alone.

Yes the developments in the CAA is a national disgrace, a disaster waiting for a location and a matter of deep personal disappointment to one who put in quite a bit of time into building a world class outfit – lets face it the DCA was not exactly a firm foundation to start of from.

Not to pat my own back, but the CAA to my departure had started attracting well qualified personnel at all levels, many of whom we were attracting from the industry, not the dregs of aviation, some of whom found a home in the DCA. ( I am not suggesting ALL the DCA employees were without merit).

We covered areas, which were hither to never done well or done at all, look at the medical officer (white female) in charge then – still an industry leader in the field, now outside the CAA. Look at aviation security and the joke we have operating there now, look at air show supervision and the expertise, which is no longer at the CAA, look at safety promotion and the team who took the show around the country etc. …..

We had world-class development programmes, which have now placed PDI inspectors with M.Sc. in aeronautical studies in the CAA. So much for qualifications … can’t guarantee the attitude in a rudderless ship.

Go back since I left the helm as CEO in December 2002 and add up the loss in qualifications of staff who have since left, were pushed or hounded out. By way of example, the IT manager, perceived a friend of the CEO was prosecuted only to have the CCMA rule against the CAA ( a cool R390,000 of your money owed to this IT manager by the CAA)

“Writing on the wall” Well what I did see is a board member who wanted me to employ some of his (unqualified) cronies. I resisted and they instituted a so called forensic audit (R750,000 of your loot for less than 1 months shoddy work – not my words, but the senior advocate who presided in my hearing.) and a subsequent disciplinary process (R3.28m .. you guessed …of your money) for a disciplinary process where 83% of the charges were kicked to boot, the rest were so ridiculous to land the CAA with a suite of R2m from myself.

There’s much more to say by Pprune has server limitations and maybe I could become an author one day.

alwaysinverted

19th Sep 2005, 20:08

Well said Trev!:ok:

The current status of the SACAA is very much in the open. We've seen here on these forums postings by people in the know, people who have even quoted, from time to time, some very senior staff members from the SACAA. Most of the SACAA staff are known to us aviators, and I find it difficult to fathom out the system currently employed by the SACAA, their policy and a million of other things. A lot of things are wrong at the SACAA, but no one seems to care. No one seems to be taking the initiative to rectify the problem either. Jeff Radebe is absolutely "stuhm" on the matter, but he's a politician, so one really can't expect much from him.

In all frankness and openess, for the sake of "public safety" (thats what those idiots at the SACAA always say) lets look at the true scenario!

Sakhile Nyoni/Reiling stands up at a public meeting and tells the meeting that the SACAA Board have failed dismally at their task. She basically tells the meeting that they're useless, and they(the board) don't even bat an eye lid. (Like most employees at the SACAA) Yet SHE is happy to work only 1 or 2 days a week, because she is not a full time employee, but on contract. Instead of informing the Board of their shortcomings and where they have failed, she does'nt care 2 hoots, because as it is, she's hardly ever at the office and could'nt care about what goes on there. To get an appointment with her is just not possible. She's way too important and she NEVER has time for anyone. ("Call Anthea my secretary and she'll block off some time in my diary".... yeah right..... 5 attempts, no luck.... on 2 occassions she did'nt even pitch. 5 million excuses.)

Seboseso is an introvert, scared of people, and cannot look you in the eye. As far as I'm concerned, he's a dead friggin zero! Camp Zero for sure! What's he doing there guys? Drafting legislation to inconvenience Supervan, or what? ;-)

Gilbert Twhala is the biggest B:mad: r on two legs, and you know for sure that he's lying every time his lips move. I mean, come on Trev, what's a dude like that doing at the SACAA?

Obert Chakarisa spent 8 years at a prestigious French Aeronautical University and obtained various "prestigious" Aeronautical degrees, but can't even say good morning in French! Now that I find very strange. Apart from being a Zimbabwean, who by the way, when questioned about Zimbamboon land, will tell you what a great statesman Bob Mugarbage is, but yet he's living in sunny SA, on a fat pay package, and could'nt care 2 hoots about his starving brothers up north! Eesch!

This is the senior management at the SACAA. Its a disgrace ma broer! Not to forget the Part 121 boss, who by the way, used to fly a Fokker Jet for some Z:mad: t kingdom, and who had no idea how to manage the fuel system, with the result that he declared an emergency at JIA, after losing an engine, and nearly ploughed the airie into the ground. When the inspectors went aboard, they questioned the honorable Captain, who claimed an engine failure, but on closer inspection it appearred that the honorable captain did not know how to manage the fuel system. Now how does a guy like that get to be in command of a commercial airliner, and MOST OF ALL, how does hew get to be the boss of Part 121 at the SACAA? Beats me!:} Oh someone just said he's from the Royal Family. A Dhlamini! How could I be so forgetful? Yeah thats right!

Then lets look at the colorful, 39 year old playboy. Hugo Boss suits, Gucci shoes and a brand new Mercedes! Yes you've guessed it right! Our super "cewl, hip hop, super duper, ace helicopter pilot" and Part 127 Chief, Mr. Pule Ramalofi! This dude learned to fly on an ESCOM bursary, and after obtaining his Com License, he went to work at Saphire. Unfortunately, he could not make it there, coz he could'nt fly properly, with the result that he joined the SACAA as an inspector, and progressed to the "Chief in Charge" within 4 months. Another clown of note! Charismatic for sure though! By his own admission, "the chicks adore me man", especially after a few tequila shooters!" Ha Ha !

Who's next? Oh yes, don't forget the "brilliant, Einstein equipped, Intellectually challenged Dr. Emily #*$@+ whatever, the medical doctor. Mmmmm, thank goodness I'm not one of her patients, but yes, she's in charge of Aviation Medicine! Tequila addict for sure. Ask Pule!

I must'nt leave out the rotten, partly illeterate, legal department. Good "ol KC". Shafted Trevor, and in the process got caught up in his own corruption scam. Left the employ of the SACAA, and now I believe, he's the Airport Manager at Pietersburg..... on a salary of R1.2 million a year, but is never there, runs the airport from his carphone (Mercedes of course), and chases the chicks in Pretoria.... most of the time. The "super queen" Kim G left also, and I recently noticed him on the arm of Wrenelle Stander. My goodness, what a "queer" co-incidence! The rest of the legal team is not much to write about. They're still arguing whether they should take on Gary van der Merwe (after losing 4 cases) and which council to use. The village idiot, HW is still floating around the building, but most of the time he does'nt know who he is, or where he is. I think they call it PMS or MPD.:D

So Mr. CAA Chief, these are the main clowns that make up the F:mad: up SACAA. Do you honestly believe that these people are able to mak a significant contribution to civil aviation in SA?

I personally have my doubts, but hey, who am I to be so judgemental...... but prove me wrong ma bro!;)

Amandla!, Viva! Amandla! Long live Jeff, Isreal & most of the **%%##@@& ars:mad: es that pretend they know about aviation.:{

CAACHIEF

19th Sep 2005, 21:17

ALWAYSINVERTED

You well versed in the problems at the CAA

A few minor edits ought to improve your outrage

1. Obert Chakarisa only spent one year and a few months (French language course) in France - some time back, which probably accounts for him forgetting his Bon Jour? Comme ca va? etc.

2. KC definitely has been the "xxxxxxxx in the pile", being the racist that he turned out to be - but then I employed him (we all make our mistakes).
He specializes in screwing young junior staff, laziness and back stabbing. Got booted out the CAA but then the next major Domo, ex-Ekurhuleni police chief, messed that up and resulted in KC get a CCMA award ( 3 months salary ... somewhat less than his legal costs).
Joined FAPB, stabbed the then airport manager in the back who got fired. Guess what, KC later got fired from there too. Now joined City Deep as legal eagle... girls there beware.

3. There is a new board in place. The entire old board were booted out as they had in fact become disfunctional. Could not even agree on a new CEO.

New chairman is Duke Moorosi, ex-SAA in charge of pax services, pilot who held ATPL in Lesotho. John Morrison, Southern African Airlines Assoc also there. So forward your complaints to them.

Now all we need to have "MINISTER" sign in.
:ok:

Racist phrase deleted. 4HP

4HolerPoler

20th Sep 2005, 05:49

Brilliant thread - absolutely fantastic! This is what this site is all about. I can literally smell the dirty laundry.

This is one hot potato.

4HP

Exhaust Manifold

20th Sep 2005, 10:46

Is this whole situation going to add to the demise of SAA? They're cutting regional routes and if the CAA don't pull finger then SAA won't be able to go to the US anymore.

I would of thought that SAA would be making a bigger deal out of this.

Anyway, CAA is so full of people who don't know their ar:mad: e from their face that trying to fix this mess is going to take a while, especially with this whole BEE mentality. They need qualified people not just as many "previously disadvantaged" as they can find. :*

Bucket

20th Sep 2005, 11:53

:hmm:

I came here a while ago from shores to the north of this fine country and sadly have quietly witnessed the steady decline of this instituion.

SA has been my home for the last few years and I love the place most dearly, however the BEE will kill this country and render it incapable of doing any serious business at any decent level outside of this continent.

It remains a pathetic joke of the first order that flight inspectors are recruited after having completed a comm and then given the powers to act thereafter.

I simply cannot see why this beloved country carries on so. The goings on at the CAA are just SO, SO farcical that it sometimes truly beggars belief. Too fail an inspection from another authority is to make a public statement of gross and overwhelming incompetance that has no excuses whatsoever. There can be no cheap back peddling on this one.

An emergency effort to recruit intelligent, keen, knowledgable and competant people irrespective of colour must now commence. Cast aside the need for BEE; the very integrity of the CAA and the SA aviation industry is at stake and mud sticks.

Knoppiesdoorn

20th Sep 2005, 12:13

"CAA Chief"
Thankyou for responding.

We can carry on with the 'dirty washing' till pprune runs out of memory but it is not going to help. Some how someone is going to have to stand up and take CAA to task.

You have invited the Minister to respond, but I cannot see that happening, surely you still have his ear? Talk to him. This mess can only be sorted out from the top.

And,I see there are also others that share my view that you should make a come back.

'Alwaysinverted" between you and Missouri you have given us some interesting info but I believe we should now all stand together and try and resolve it.

circadian_low

20th Sep 2005, 12:24

The South African CAA failed the FAA audit recently. This may result in a ban on flights to the USA by all SA registered aircraft if they do not get their house in order. The ICAO audit is to follow in about 18 month. Failure of this audit may result in a flight ban to Europe.

It is sad to see that South Africa is now in line with most of Africa in their inability to keep up standards to an acceptable level. The major cause of this drop in standards is non other than a flailing and inept administration who are placing incompetent and un-qualified people in post through the forced process of Black Economic Empowerment.

Farrell

20th Sep 2005, 12:32

forced process, as in "law"?

circadian_low

20th Sep 2005, 12:45

Not sure if you refer to the audit, the ban or the BEE (Black Economic empowerment)

An audit establish if an organization is performing and/or adhering to certain standards. In the case of the FAA versus the SACAA, the FAA is not happy with the standards of the SACAA which is the government body controlling aviation in SA. So they can decide to ban SA aircraft from flying into the USA despite the fact that individual companies have very high standards through policing themselves. In this case the FAA has given the SACAA time to correct the problem before they will do another audit to see if the problems have been corrected. Otherwise a ban will follow.

If you refer to BEE. Yes. That is law. Blacks take preference over whites, even if the white person is better qualified. Thousands of competent white people have lost their jobs here to unqualified black people. That is the main cause of the demise of the SACAA.

Deskjocky

20th Sep 2005, 14:19

Dont think the new Chairman of the Board is going to be any good if you take his track record at SAA into account. Global Pax Servies is in total dissarray after that clown had a go at running it- he left before they had time to fire his ass. He was totally incapable of working with the airlines's suppliers - particularly Equity Aviation who seem to think its ok for their staff to steal/pilfer anything of value from passengers baggage. Net result is the clown leaves- gets the cushy assignment at the CAA- the even bigger fool who was his 2IC sees that his benefactor is legging it for cover and so also resigns and lands a plum job at......Equity Aviation! perhaps there was a reason he never acted against them?

Sorry back to the new Chairman, he also had his ass kicked out of another airline before joining SAA- and Im not talking about Lesotho Airways here! But I see that the 2 owners of that particular carrier have seen the error of their ways (now that he is the Chairman of the CAA!) and have seen fit to appoint him as the Chairman of one of their other Companies- now is that not a conflict of interest?

Eich another day in Afrika!

alwaysinverted

20th Sep 2005, 14:20

Mmmmm, interesting responses here.

Trevor, I know John Morrison very well. With respect, wrong choice for the Board. John should have retired 10 years ago. He's very old school and he will not be able to achieve anything, He is, with respect, in exactly the same boat as Peter Piggot as Chairman of his Commercial Aircraft Operators Association. Its an association yes, but with dead zip zero teeth. Furthermore, both those old dudes have become such "gatkruipers". There's no way that they will stand up against any high profile black, be it a Minister, DG or Chairman of their Board. Sorry bro, but THATS A FACT!

I used to work with Duke in the good old days of Air Lesotho. Flew many hours with him and Frank Green in the Twin Otter. Cowboys my man, cowboys. What is it with the SA Government that they keep on leaning on the neighbours? For f...... sake my man, there are more than suitably qualified people here in SA that can be employed to do a decent job. You see, this is exactly the problem. Government wants to transform, but they employ people who can't transform. Remember, those black dudes want power my man. Do you for one moment think he'll teach his brother anything? No way, because before long, his brother may push him out. No bro, not those dudes. For them its only the power, the money, the chicks, the cars, the fancy restaurants and thousands of rands of clothing bills at stores around "Sandton City" each month. That reminds me, what happened to the good old catalogue order thing that the blacks were so crazy about one time? Shows you huh, times have changed! ;-)

Furthermore, it is clear that the problems are amplified thru politics. You know that black people don't trust whites or coloured people, and you know that better than most of us Trev. They'll rather employ some unqualified, half illeterate dude, simply to make it look like transformation, but that so called transformation is creating a huge embarrasment for Civil Aviation in SA. People in the industry regularly refer to these idiots as monkies, zots, whatever, and the industry almost daily redicules the SACAA. The people at the SACAA know this.... they know that they're being rediculed, but they do nothing. Nothing because they don't actually know what to do, and they're too scared to ask those that know, coz they're afraid that the people they ask will think they're idiots. So no transfer of skill takes place, zip. The black duded sit there in their offices looking busy, but they're not, coz they got nothing to do, and if they've got something to do, they don't know how to do it.

Knopdoring, I agree whole heartedly with you that we must stand together and rectify the wrong.

The "Beeeeeg" problem is not only the Minister, but the actual Managers at the SACAA. THEY are the ones who will not listen, do not take kindly to criticism, do not want to be told what to do etc. The reason? They have a mandate from the Minister of Transport. That mandate tells them what to do, and I can assure you that what is contained in that mandate, is NOT what you and I (and others) would like to see happen.

I have written several letters to Stuart Farrow, (Chairman of the Standing Committee on Transport Affairs and DA MP) but to this day have not received a response. Trevor knows Stui, and maybe a couple of us should make the journey down south to Stuarts office. Maybe he can get Jeff into a meeting with us, and WE can then tell Jeff to open his eyes, and get real.

Radebe should not only have replaced the Board, he should have fired each and everyone of those incompetent managers and replaced them with suitably qualified people that can lead, and ones that are not only interested in their own personal well being and their salary cheques.

Lets hope the Minister reads this thread, or someone makes him aware of it. Its not only my sentiment, but also of thousands of aviators around SA.
:ok:

birdlady

20th Sep 2005, 14:34

Unfortunately, SAA is a public company so therefore if revenues are down...... no problem the tax payer will keep it a float. :* :* :* BEE is harder to get around as its built into the constution. A company has to employ a certain amount of PDI's otherwise they are breaking the law - rightly or wrongly.

What concerns me is if the CAA is downgraded, it will have huge ramification across the aviation industry. Revenue will be down for the airlines resulting in loss of jobs and lets face it lads the market is already floody as it is. Our training industry will go to seed as not a lot of foreigners will be willing to come here for training. Not only this, but other countries will not recogonise are licences. Not to mention what it would do for our tourism industry. The list is endless..........

CAA CHIEF and ALWAYS INVERTED - Keep those comments coming. Dirty laudary is always interesting.......... :D :D :D

CAACHIEF

20th Sep 2005, 15:19

Hey Knoppiesdoorn

Serious stuff for a rumour network. But I am a sucker for taking the bait when it means getting something done with an institution which impacts on all of us.

Here's a proposal

Why do we not do a "Peoples Report on the State of our Aviation Regulator" (sounds sufficently PC does it not.)

Addressed to:
1. Parliamentary Portfolio Committee on Transport
2. The Presidency
3. Minister of Transport
4. Chairman of the CAA Board.

Maybe c.c. to the press.

Content: Here's the crunch

We need to document ACCURATELY the stories about the mlfunctioning of the CAA which have been posted on Pprune and the many more unposted tales out there.

They should be supported by documentation where possible.

The report should be developed into an analysis of the underlying problems illustrated by actual events.

The language should sound a dispassionate yet damning account of where we are heading to with the CAA. i.e. we can't necessary have some of the slagging which Pprune affords us as it will simply devaluate the impact of the report.

I would be willing to compile the report and post it for comments before we pass it on to these luminaries.

The question is would Ppruners be up to it? :rolleyes:

Rhodie

20th Sep 2005, 15:24

Always Inverted..

I may not have agreed on points previously, and may not again..

BUT - this one you have nailed perfectly.. :ok:

Good on ya. If something, anything, comes of this, then it can only be an improvement.

CAA Chief - come back - PLEASE.

The last time we spoke was after Hansie's plane went in and some friends and I had shot the approaches and reciprocals on the sim - at least CAA were listening then and were actually doing something.

Ciao

R

<edit> sorry A-I, it's the residual heat or whatever that I don't agree with - you, I do.. :E

<edit#2> Chief - Im'e IN :ok:

Life'sShort-FlyFast

20th Sep 2005, 15:33

Wonderful thread! Given the implications to the South African economy in terms of tourism etc. Would this subject not have HUGE interest for Carte Blanche??

mach decimal 83

20th Sep 2005, 15:51

I have been following this post with interest, over the last few days and came to the equation that all, that has been said, is good and well, but hell, these STUFF needs to come out!! Why not tip off the guys at Special Assignment or so to go and have a look and bring all these rotten stuff that has been happening there to the surface!!!!! I spoke to a mate of mine yesterday, who is not involved in the aviation at all and he could not believe what I was telling him, about what might happen if our CAA gets downgraded! I.e the general public out there does not have a clue what disaster is about to take place!! This does not effect just everyone in the SA Aviation, but the whole infrastructure of this country will fall to pieces!! My personal opinion from what I could gather from the post on this topic: too much damage has been done to fix before the FAA will be back

ruffusruffcut001

20th Sep 2005, 16:22

Life,s shot flypast,
I agree with you , let Carte Blanche duo go and snoop around the CAA.
Does anybody know where or how to contact either Ruda or Derek?
I think Carte Blanche will do the trick as we have seen the results of the Mpum. saga on last sunday,s broacast.

African Tech Rep

20th Sep 2005, 16:51

Just a thought but has anyone heard anything about any interest in this from the ICAO.

My understanding is that a downgrade from the FAA “only” causes problems for SA planes flying to the US and [if they downgrade because of everything not just maintenance standards] N reg flying here, but if the ICAO finds your no longer in accordance with their guidelines you are *:mad: * - you can’t fly to or over a “compliant contracting state”.

After the Ansett debacle the ICAO I belive threatened CASA with this – CASA rewrote some Regs, the head resigned “due to industry criticism” and the smell coming from the CASA offices and Qantas was BAD.

I was going to say Australia was “saved” by “high level intervention” and wonder if SA has the same clout – but then realised that they do – if this in known in the States the anti apartheid lobby will be back out in force, after all the new SA is their success and any criticism of it will at some stage be spun into racism.

Anyone may correct me – if it’s someone like CAA Chief I won’t even argue

Knoppiesdoorn

20th Sep 2005, 17:34

Hi Trevor,

I like your suggestion and will support you all the way, but do we have the time for that?

I have already sent Carte Blanche an e-mail on their website but maybe somebody has a personal contact there.

As for ICAO........ they can help in a big way but there are some serious protocol. So far there has been no response from a suggestion. In the end they can do no more than publish their findings. They have a Technical Co-operation Bureau which will provide experts in various fields to assist, but the request have to come from Government level. But we don't need them we have all the expertise here in this "beloved country of mine"

Herc130

20th Sep 2005, 18:58

I have been reading this thread with great interest over the last couple of weeks. Trevor it’s great having you onboard a forum again, and it is especially great to that you are open and forthright about what is happening in the circus. (The only one in town where the clowns get mad when the people laugh at them.)

There are a great number of aviators among us that still believe that the worst thing that could have happened in SA aviation was the day you left SACAA, at least then decisions were made that kept the industry alive and moving forward.

On that note, I have heard from reliable sources that apparently just prior to leaving the CAA you signed a examination policy change to the effect that CPL and ATPL examinations may be written individually ie, no carrying of three subjects but each subject passed was carried for a period. I believe that a number of CAA affirmative appointees wrote their exams in this manner. (One apparently writing Nav or instruments? 3 times in one week.) I do not believe that this is leveling the playing field for the rest of the industry. Don’t get me wrong I applaud the initial decision because, as an instructor, I am of the opinion that if you allow the student time for decent study, the material is internalized and better understood, rather than testing the short memory capacity and hit and miss method currently employed. My question though is if you did indeed approve this why are only EE CAA employees getting this dispensation?

African Tech Rep

20th Sep 2005, 19:05

I wasn’t actually thinking of ICAO helping – I was thinking of the ramifications of them becoming interested which they should be now and certainly will be if the FAA does downgrade SA.
But if the SACAA asked them for help the FAA [I think] would be unlikely to downgrade while ICAO were assisting SACAA – on the other hand the FAA probably wouldn’t downgrade if the SACAA asked them for help, and the chance of the SACAA admitting something is wrong makes the above mote points.
There is a fun political game that could be played if the SACAA requested and PASSED an ICAO Audit before the FAA deadline – but it relies on them PASSING an audit

What can be done – CAA Chief has told everyone – get it in writing to “responsible parties”, thus taking away their “plausible deniability” – BUT it must be done or at least sent by someone with Clout backed up by LOTS of signatures from pilots, engineers, ATCO’s etc etc, without this it’ll be passed off as “sour grapes”.
NOTE – that’s NOT saying it will be sour grapes, just that this would be the spin.

CAA Chief – if you get the support (and looks like you might) my terminal and time is yours – just tell me how I can help and I’ll a plan make.

boomarang

20th Sep 2005, 21:48

CAA Chief

I'll kick off with a concrete case of CAA inaction, if not corruption.

Operator flying charter (for government nogal) in DC9 is found to have overflown flight and duty times at least on 9 occassions in a three and a half month period. In one case 18 hours in one day (FAJS-FWKI-FLND-FNLU-FKKD-DNMM-DGAA), more than 17 hours on another. All flight folios available and signed by captain (ex CAA employee).

This would minimally incur a suspension of your AOC by most credible regulatory authorities. What with the endangerment of pax lives, annulling insurance cover, etc.

All data given to CAA inspector who reportedly recommended drastic action.

Outcome: Senior management recommends a fireside chat and a slap on the wrist for the operator. Keep on flying boet ... until you and how many unfortunate souls land up amidst mangled metal.

Data on these flights, including signed flight folios by the captain available.

Name of Inspector known.

Matter handled to the CAA in July 2005.

Ineffective enough for your report CAA Chief? Fishy by my books!

:E

3rdBogey

21st Sep 2005, 12:17

Yes, I suppose I am a cynic.
What I think is: THEY don't care if it stops working!!
The only thing of relevance is "SKIN COLOUR" !!!!!
The previous crowd had 350 years of play-time, now it's OUR turn!
We will have ALL fields of whatever ruled by skin colour! They don't care if the teams lose! So long as they have enough.....skin colour! They don't care if a system fails due to lack of currently qualified people of skin colour, so long as the right skin colour is there!
I know, there are plenty of "hot" line pilots in the world who are black....Astronauts/test-pilots....etc. Point is the authorities in SA (and the people<the people in Zim are HAPPY with Bob or he wouldn't be repeatedly voted in>) want skin colour ( like the previous "regime") to be the alfa and omega of all skills/representations!
If the hallowed National Carrier has to stop flying to USA for a few months/ years untill enough officials of "colour" at CAA are "suitably" qualified, FINE! America get lost! Europe get lost!
We'll make friends with Cuba/Iran etc.....we'll even give them nuke technology too!

birdlady

21st Sep 2005, 16:40

CAA

I think the report would be an excellent idea. I think its time that we as pilots stop complaning and actually do something about the situation. The press needs to know about this too. Special assignment or Carte Blanche would be the perfect place to start. It seems that some of special assignments stories on police corruption have resulted in some positive action by the parties responsible. I agree with African Tech Rep - it needs to be compiled by someone with clout and signed by pilots, mechanics, engineers, etc. I would be more than happy to help in any way I can. :ok: :ok: :ok:

er340790

21st Sep 2005, 17:41

.... interesting that it comes just as United, U.S., Delta, NWA + any other airlines going into Ch 11 this week aim to increase their profitable international networks.

jet_crews

21st Sep 2005, 18:01

Bird Lady.

your 100% correct.
something should be done and fast or south africa will become just like Zambia, Zim ,just to name a few. and how about the dep of transport. they are also a bunch of corrupt people looking for hand out. and there biggest customer is SAA.

let all get together and fight and bring back all the great ones.

At least back then South Africa CAA had respect!!!!

jamielee

21st Sep 2005, 18:27

THERE STAFF THAT IS WORKING HARD TO PLEASE THE INDUSTRY WITHIN THE GUIDELINES OF THE AIR REGS AND MISSION IS SAFETY OF ALL PUT IN FIRST OF ALL. ONE CAN JUST DO SO MUCH.....:\

African Tech Rep

21st Sep 2005, 19:00

Jamielee – take it your home language isn’t English
Hope it’s a leg pull

The “Air Regs” are NOT guidelines – they are the LAW.
“one can just do so much” – I’m sure the FAA / EASA / ICAO will reduce the criteria based on this argument – of course that will upset all those Authorities who are Compliant.

It is though the perfect post to demonstrate the “African attitude” – “we are trying to do it right – but it’s a bit hard – lets change it to make it easier – if you won’t let us maybe the race card will”

CarbHeatIn

21st Sep 2005, 19:13

UA has just announced that it is DECREASING capacity to LHR, CDG, AMS and ICN.

alexss

21st Sep 2005, 19:35

Several countries are classified by the FAA as not meeting ICAO standards, but their airlines are allowed to continue operations to the US (though not to increase frequency) - eg. Aerolineas Argentinas still operates there daily.

Or is this not the same audit that South Africa failed?

Full list of country classifications:

http://www.faa.gov/safety/programs_initiatives/oversight/iasa/media/iasaws.xls

African Tech Rep

21st Sep 2005, 19:54

From the FAA site

When CAA's of countries with existing air carrier service to the U.S. are found to not meet ICAO standards, the FAA formally requests consultations with the CAA. The purpose of consultations is to discuss our findings in some detail and explore means to quickly rectify shortcomings found with regard to ICAO annexes, to enable its air carriers to continue service to the United States. During the consultation phase, foreign air carrier operations from that country into the United States will be frozen at existing levels.

This policy is defined in a notice published in the Federal Register (Volume 60, No. 210, October 31, 1995). FAA may also heighten its surveillance inspections (ramp checks) on these carriers while they are in the United States. If the deficiencies noted during consultations cannot be successfully corrected within a reasonable, period of time, FAA will notify DOT that carriers from that country do not have an acceptable level of safety oversight and will recommend that DOT revoke or suspend its carriers economic operating authority.

It's the second paragraph and the lack of definition of time for the Consultation Phase that determines things

African Tech Rep

21st Sep 2005, 20:03

This is being talked about in Rumours - that led me to the FAA site where I found :-

“When CAA's of countries with existing air carrier service to the U.S. are found to not meet ICAO standards, the FAA formally requests consultations with the CAA. The purpose of consultations is to discuss our findings in some detail and explore means to quickly rectify shortcomings found with regard to ICAO annexes, to enable its air carriers to continue service to the United States. During the consultation phase, foreign air carrier operations from that country into the United States will be frozen at existing levels.

This policy is defined in a notice published in the Federal Register (Volume 60, No. 210, October 31, 1995). FAA may also heighten its surveillance inspections (ramp checks) on these carriers while they are in the United States. If the deficiencies noted during consultations cannot be successfully corrected within a reasonable, period of time, FAA will notify DOT that carriers from that country do not have an acceptable level of safety oversight and will recommend that DOT revoke or suspend its carriers economic operating authority.”

So if the SACAA fail the next audit SAA will NOT be automatically banned from the US – but they won’t be able to increase flights.
The ban won’t happen until a “reasonable period” after “consultation” – reasonable period doesn’t seem to be defined - so maybe jamilee’s “the CAA are working hard to please industry – but one can only do so much” argument might win a LONG reasonable period – NOT.

Note – it’s the DoT that gets the final say – not the FAA

birdlady

21st Sep 2005, 20:21

ATR,

That's interesting. So lets see if I've got this straight. The FAA will initally put recommendations to the CAA on how they can improve standards. If this is not complied with, the FAA will refer them to DoT so in the end the FAA is not the one to ban a certain carrier. If these issues were a concern with the FAA surely in the end DoT will side with the FAA. :confused: :confused:

Jamie, I rate your just trying to wind us up......... sorry no such luck.........:ok: :ok: :ok:

African Tech Rep

21st Sep 2005, 21:00

Hi Birdlady

My reading is that the FAA would tell the CAA “this is where your failing” and then hold talks aimed at correcting the failing – if the FAA like you they can help and advise, if they don’t they talks would most likely be “well what you doing about it?”.
I have dealt with FAA (not on this subject) and always found them to be helpful – IF APPROACHED THE RIGHT WAY – “Eish Boss it’s hard” or “we are now a democracy – go away” it NOT the way to go.

Imagine the FAA telling the DoT “country x have unsafe planes”, the Dot doing nothing until a incident (not necessarily a crash) – FAA say “hey we told the DoT”.
We are into International Politics here but I think the DoT would need the President to sign a “get out of jail free card” in blood before they chose not to act on the FAA report.

A “by the side thought” – it would be interesting to know the colour makeup of the FAA team – predominately negro (can we still use this word ?) would indicate a different attitude than predominately white.

PS
Story – working on USAF base, warned about “politically correct”, one US guy (officer) black, everyone walking on eggshells during day, see him in club in night - “having fun?” asked – answer “yo man this nigger got to boggie down” – two days latter asked by white woman why we called him “pigeon” – answer cause when he walks passed them they say “look at the coon – look at the coon” (it needs an accent) – less than 10min later whole team in office having “racist” explained to them.
Saved by him coming in asking what the “honkeys” had done wrong and then explaining HE told us the joke.

Moderator – close I know but is it a racist remark if a black guy calls himself a “nigger” or an Afrikaans guy calls himself “Dutchman” ?

You tell me bubba. I'm tired of keeping our sensitive members happy & the n-word typically generates a flood of angry demands for my intervention. Personally, I think it's cool for a black dude to call himself whatever & an Afrikaans kerel to do the same but I do not condone it when one party calls the other by that same name. It all comes down to what I've posted here before; the owners of this site & I have no concern as to what color your skin is, what your religion is or what your particular persuasions are. We ask only that you respect others on this site with the same courtesy as you would wish to be treated. Nuff said. 4HP

josh sitanga

22nd Sep 2005, 04:33

On a recent trip to the USA for recurrency training, I had the pleasure of meeting some "black American" Marine Pilots doing type ratings to a GV at a well known school down in Florida. I had interesting conversations and times with them, and could after a few days, draw the following conclusions:

1. Those boys are educated, razor sharp and adapt. They also take their flying very seriously, and they excell at what they do.

2. That there is a huge difference between the "American" boys and our boys here in Africa. Somehow we lack either the facilities, education, or simply we are not exposed to the kind of modern society & facilities these boys grow up in.

3. One informed me that America's "black" popolation makes up only 10 to 12% of the entire populaqtion, which is interesting, if correct.

4. From that, one can conclude that the standard of the small population of "black American's (Lifestyle, education whatever)are actually "raised" to a level where they're actually on par with most white Americans, which is of course what we're all striving for here in Africa. (A better life for all, basic primary health care and at least one good meal a day.)

That brings me to the posting of ATR.

The FAA is representative of its population. Therefore you will find a lot of Spanish speaking (some Hispanics by birth) FAA Officials at the Flight Standards District Offices in Florida, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, California etc, due to the large population of Hispanics in those regions.

In Michigan, Detroit, Kansas etc, you will find a fair amount of very highly skilled Black FAA Inspectors.

The FAA are headquartered in Oklahoma City, but the Administrator is based in Washington. In all my dealings with the FAA on airline, multilateral and co-operative agreements, I can with confidence say that the "teams" were always broadly represented, that race, religion or whatever, did not play a role at all, and that the decisions taken by the delegates, were that of unity, based on logic and aviation safety, and they also made a lot of sense.

South Africa is a new democracy, or I should rather say a "reasonably new democracy". The American Goverment are sending people to SA representative of their own population, and this is a common occurrence in Africa. Send Africans to Africa. We see it in Ambassadors, High Commissioners and diplomats generally here at home. These people are skilled and suitably schooled in their vocation, and their intelligence should not be under estimated.

The FAA team that visited with the SACAA, were "representative", so it was'nt a case of " white hitting on black" or vice versa. The purpose of that meeting had only one agenda, Aviation Safety.

I agree that there are probably a couple of black people at the SACAA that are pulling their weight, and are trying hard to make a difference. A difference will however not be noted or achieved, unless ALL the employees at the SACAA pull their respective weights.

It is true that aviation is a new environment for a lot of black youngsters, as it was previously only for the white elite due to costs, but governments are spending money on these youngsters, trying to educate them in aviation, but it will take time for them to understand fully what its all about, and what is required

Governments biggest headaches are trying to change the mind set. The fact that an airplane is not a "taxi" that can pull over to the side of the road when the wheel falls off due to complete bearing failure. Thats the issue.

So yes, some out there are trying, but as ATR said, the law is the law and not a guideline. Africans in general, are used to breaking laws, not because they want to, but due to shortcomings of many natures, lack of resources, and others, and therefore are used to pushing the envelope a bit from time to time.

Example: Chief Ground Engineer knows that the tyres on the 737 going to JHB should be changed, but eesch, "we are very short of spares". Let it go one more time, and we'll change it when the airplane comes back" sort of scenario. Problem is, its not safe, regulations are violated, tyres bursts at JHB on landing, airplane leaves runway, substantial damaged caused and minor injuries on board. Not right! Should'nt have happened, but these are the sort of examples that are everyday occurrences in Africa and some Airlines. The laws are broken due to the hundreds of shortcomings that are plagueing Africa. No money, always NO money! We have NO money!

So people of sunny SA, and employees of the SACAA, see your time there as a learning curve in many ways, try to learn from the experienced, be diligent, be observant, and DON'T discriminate. Most of your white peers are there to help you, because they HAVE the experience! Listen, take note and forget what "white colonialism" did to Africa.;)

Got a job for me?:ok: :D

Solid Rust Twotter

22nd Sep 2005, 04:45

Josh, well said!:ok:

You is a good man, brother......

Solid Rust Twotter

22nd Sep 2005, 07:13

Perhaps you should read 3rdBogey's post again, zssp. zssp just earned himself a trip to the cooler. 4HP

OzExpat

22nd Sep 2005, 07:25

I see some surprises in that list of country classifications. :uhoh:

African Tech Rep

22nd Sep 2005, 08:22

At the risk of hijacking this thread - not something I want to do as it’s an interesting important subject – having read Josh’s I felt maybe a bit of clarification was needed.

I agree the FAA as a whole is representative of the US population.
I am not “knocking” the ability of any FAA inspector – regardless of race – because :-
1 – It would be wrong – in general they a good at what they do and as I said helpful if approached the right way.
2 – I hold an A&P and am not stupid enough to insult the issuing authority :D

BUT should the FAA chose to send a team made up predominately of a certain race it would be a “message” – they will be cognisant of possible political implications of downgrade of SA so it would make sense and SHOULD be a factor they take into account in choosing the team – if they chose to send a predominately white team the SA Government will in most likelihood comment on this making it LOOK like there were racist overtones AND the reaction of the SACAA will be different to that if they send a predominately Black team.
A predominantly black team would be a message that the race card has been taken away, that the issue is important and has nothing to do with race and would [I belive] be taken by the SACAA as a “better” sign than a white team.
I REALLY HOPE no White or Hispanic etc is on the team sent – it would be a terrible shame for this issue to be clouded by “the race card”.

The problem [I belive] is that SA Govt and SACAA are discriminating – they HAD a good CAA, respected and functional but rather than phase in more blacks and coloureds they chose to replace the experienced whites as fast as possible under the guise of Affirmative Action – what they did wasn’t AA it was pure discrimination.

The culture here is vastly different to the US or UK – here they seem to have a “me first – next my tribe (Zulu, Xhosa, Afrikaans, etc) – get as much as we can – do as little as possible - if things go wrong blame the other race, although possibly the biggest difference is attitude to corruption, UK & US take this very seriously SA (and much of Africa) treat it as an expected part of life.
Since coming here I have been surprised just how well educated some SA blacks are (not all – but some) – but too often that education is used purely to enrich themselves rather than improve the lot of all.

In many African countries money is a big problem – SA does NOT have this problem – it does have the problem that the politicians would prefer to give money to Zim than spend it on their own infrastructure and where they do spend it on infrastructure the contracts often seem to go a relative / friend who set up a company yesterday and has no knowledge of the task.
In fact I think you’ll find that many African countries don’t have real money problems, some do, but in many if not most the money is there but the “me first” culture means the intelligent get it and they sure as hell don’t want to educate / make life better for the masses cause then the masses will want some of the money.

Josh – I think we agree on many points but as I don’t know you feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

Hope we now see more postings about the CAA Chiefs idea.

Solid Rust Twotter

22nd Sep 2005, 08:49

ATR

By sending an inspection team containing no white faces, the race card would be played to pander to racist perceptions by those being inspected. Sending a standard mixed team would be the best move in my opinion. No selection on grounds of race should be allowed. Any bleating about it by SACAA/govt should be construed as racist.

Dani

22nd Sep 2005, 09:20

For me there are no surprises in this list...

praenoscere

22nd Sep 2005, 10:59

:} With the way the inept officials of CAA are (mis) handling things I trust that we will fly one of these days to most European and American destinations via Africa & South America:} That is to get on a connecting flight with a first world carrier :}

African Tech Rep

22nd Sep 2005, 12:38

SRT

Good point – wish I thought it would work

Unfortunately a team picked without regard to race will give the lobbyist / ex anti- apartheid people ammunition to spin.
Not sure where Tharg is – but do know many people in Europe / States etc who have difficulty comprehending racism works both ways – ie SA Govt cannot [in their eyes] be racist.

I’ve been there – found serious deficiencies when auditing airline in country x – reaction to my findings from airline “findings not serious – he exaggerates because he doesn’t like country x” – LOTS of arguments – VERY clouded issue.
Next audit carried out by someone of decent from country x – same findings – less clouds.

Take the ammo away first – if team black no racism card to play – next card probably “the US don’t like that SAA bought Airbus – this is revenge”.

I know it’s sad and wrong – but more time and effort will be spent arguing the FAA is wrong / have an ulterior motive than will be spent trying to fix the problem.

birdlady

22nd Sep 2005, 14:10

ATR

Thanks for clearing that up :ok: :ok: :ok:

Josh - I couldnt agree with you more. :ok: :ok:

SRT - I can see your point. By pandering to these officials we are allowing them to get away with inefficiency by playing the race card. This is unacceptable. I can also see ATR's point. :D :D :D
I reckon a lot of the problems at the CAA are to do with pride more than racism (although this does definately factor into things). Pride meaning that CAA officals are not willing to admit that there is a problem. They want to prove to the rest of the world that they can actually do it themselves and are not willing to admit that they possibly cant to themselves. Their in self denial - thats what I say. Am I making any sense?????

:) :) :)

B Sousa

22nd Sep 2005, 14:33

BUT should the FAA chose to send a team made up predominately of a certain race it would be a “message” – they will be cognisant of possible political implications of downgrade of SA so it would make sense and SHOULD be a factor they take into account in choosing the team – if they chose to send a predominately white team the SA Government will in most likelihood comment on this making it LOOK like there were racist overtones AND the reaction of the SACAA will be different to that if they send a predominately Black team.

The U.S. is first in line to kiss anyones butt. Look who they send as "Ambassador" Who was she before she had that job?? This country is so politically correct they quiver at any sound of being considered racist..........The result is they get walked on daily.
I dont think we would be having this discussion had the "transition" to a new Government taken a bit longer allowing time to educate those who were to take positions which required education and some experience. I have met a few of the new guys, they are not all stupid, they just dont have those years on the job as others had.
In the U.S. we also have Affirmitive Action and it brings along its share of morons, but for the most part it works OK. Josh was talking about Marine Pilots. The Navy and the Marine Corps, in my view, have the best Pilots in the world. Not any room for tagalongs or co-pilots. They wear Gold Wings, I dont care what their color, they were not handed those things they earned them.

African Tech Rep

22nd Sep 2005, 15:12

Birdlady – yes (making sense) – it’s sort of mixed up – racism shown by the way they got rid of and won’t get any more whites, pride and self denial in that they won’t admit there’s a problem, back to racism cause if they admit there’s a problem they’d have to get whites in to help fix it (I know of no “all black” CAA that is widely respected).

B Sousa – true – both that the yanks are scared sh**less of being called racist, hence card 1 for SA and that the transition was (is) being done too quickly (although I wasn’t here at the start of it – so corrections allowed).
AA in SA seems different to AA in the US – here it seems to be “sweeping whites out” as quick as you can and get a black in REGARDLESS of qualifications – in the US I belive it was more if they have similar qualification get the AA one, although again not been there for a while so corrections allowed.

I agree gold wing are earned not handed out – but not sure about “best pilots in world”, but realise Yanks need to BELIVE biggest & best is theirs. :E

praenoscere

22nd Sep 2005, 15:16

I find it interesting to note that it is always joe citizen who gets the short straw when it comes to BEE.

BEE is pushed down our throats faster than I can down a beer.My question - is the cockpit of South Africa's own Airfarce One BEE compliant? I doubt it !!!!:yuk:

B Sousa

22nd Sep 2005, 18:44

here it seems to be “sweeping whites out” as quick as you can and get a black in REGARDLESS of qualifications

I have to Agree with ATR on that one. Even to an outsider it appears that is the program. Seems strange as all the construction and such that is going on in SA right now seems so positive. The silent killer has not yet surfaced. That is the fact that there is virtualy no Law Enforcement remaining. Military, although no threat exists, is in shambles. Total infrastructure is impossible to work with. ie Banks, Public Utilities etc. It wont be tomorrow but it certainly looks as though collapse will be from the inside.

ou Trek dronkie

22nd Sep 2005, 20:14

Well, I dunno. I cannot remember when I read so much nonsense on Pprune before. IMHO, things are bad in the RSA, very bad, if what I have read is true. And, if my experience of Africa is any guide, they will get much, much worse, before they get any better, if they ever do.

Quite a lot of people flying kites on the forum, for different motives, I would guess. Some of them are quite rude too.

And another point, although a small one, what about the person who calls him/herself CAA Chief. Is s/he so described accurately, or was s/he fired from the job ? Is s/he the best available ? Just asking for clarification, that’s all.

oTd

PS It’s clear to me that many Ppruners have hearts of gold and are true professionals, but they have not yet come up against the realities of aviation in Africa. God Bless ‘em.

African Tech Rep

22nd Sep 2005, 20:49

IMHO Things are bad – but one thing that really gets me is that many of my neighbours etc are happy to moan for days but when it’s suggested to do something the apathy swamps you.

True I’m a newcomer so haven’t been worn down by the end of an era and what has happened since but come on guys at least try – hell it’s your country fight for it, you might lose but at least try.
NO – I don’t mean with guns and fists.

I won an argument with Telkom – reduced bill, better service (pre argument two weeks to look at fault – post same day service) it can be done if you go high and copy in the right people.

Support CAA Chief (who I belive is entitled to the name) – remember if your not part of the solution your part of the problem.

Knoppiesdoorn

23rd Sep 2005, 10:52

Please everyone, can we keep this thread on track. Pprune and 4hp is being kind to us because we have a serious problem. Lets stick together and try and resolve it.

I was the one that invited CAA Chief to respond to this thread, which he did. He offered to help, so did ATR and most of us.

I know both CAA Chief and his predecessor and have worked with both of them. I accept the fact that none of us are without fault and I also accept that the solution must be found within the present political structure and atmosphere. (Remember to old saying: He who is without sin may cast the first stone)

What I think we are asking for is a period of time, a transition period, a time where experience and qualifications can be acquired and those that have it already can transfer it from one to the other.

Lets ask for a moratorium on the equity act as far as CAA is concerned for one year, two years, for as long as it takes to get CAA on track.

ruffusruffcut001

23rd Sep 2005, 16:00

Knoppiesdoorn,
the point is that the SA CAA are employing people that ie dont have minimum 6 months experience on type and dont have licenses.They are being employed because they are the right colour.
Wrong , man, wrong.
I do believe that the forthcoming months , the SA CAA are going to revert back to a gorvernment department.

I.R.PIRATE

23rd Sep 2005, 16:43

Praenoscere : In reply to your last question... It sure aint!!!

Knoppiesdoorn

23rd Sep 2005, 18:23

Rufus....01

Yes I know and that is what we want to to stop. Getting the equity act off their back might help.

Going back to being the DCA is no gaurantee for a right change.

We need a firm undertaking from the minister to rectify the matter and employ only properly qualified people in accordance with ICAO recommendations. I can dream, can't I

As a matter of interest, the next time you pay your taxes observe the colour combination and you will understand why that department is one of the best run in the country, makes you think, does it not?

I-PILOT: Sorry I don't know what you mean.......

African Tech Rep

24th Sep 2005, 21:27

At the risk of becoming known as argumentative or pedantic I’m not 100% sure asking for “moratorium” of the EEA in the case of the CAA is they way to go.
Moratorium means delay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moratorium) and it’s likely that the Govt wouldn’t be receptive to this idea.

It might be an idea to suggest that in the case of the CAA Chapter 111, Clause 20, Para 3), of the Act
“For purposes of this Act, a person may be suitably qualified for a job as a result of any one of, or any combination of that person's-
A) formal qualifications;
B) prior learning;
C) relevant experience; or
D) capacity to acquire, within a reasonable time, the ability to do the job.
is not fully appropriate as due to the safety critical nature of the work done A) AND C) are required to make a person “suitably qualified” and the “reasonable time” outlined in D) runs to years.

Having had a look at the Act it seem that the CAA are in compliance – another relevant bit is :-
In making a determination under subsection (4), an employer may not unfairly discriminate against a person solely on the grounds of that person's lack of relevant experience.

IMHO care must taken to avoid any hint of an “attack” on the EEA – we should rather “congratulate” the CAA on their eagerness to comply whilst pointing out their task is Specialised and therefore requires the use of a personnel selection procedure that is slightly more stringent than the Act requires.

We would also need to give a “save face solution” – ie suggest that the new CAA guys who are busy getting a CPL / experience are “seconded” to SAA to gain “operational and flight safety experience” – during their “secondment” “old hands” could be employed.

Just something to think about – after all it’s not just what you say but how you say it.

For those interested http://www.acts.co.za/index.htm has a copy of the Act – it cures insomnia a treat :D

Solid Rust Twotter

25th Sep 2005, 15:30

Tiptoeing around the sensitivities of fools in case they take offence - Oh, goody.... :rolleyes:

Isn't political correctness great?:mad: :*

3rdBogey

28th Sep 2005, 07:40

OK. So "we" have to be positive, and do something constructive. This always seems a bit daunting in the eyes of the dooers if the authorities are not very responsive.
1) Is 'Zukile Nomvete' still with the SACAA?
If so, are you aware of his 'history'? What is his function, and package......?

boomarang

28th Sep 2005, 08:54

Nomvete was the deputy chairman of the board between 2001-2003. Got booted off with the entire board this year - probably not unrelated to the chaos which was emerging at the CAA

He also has a distinguished record of having been fired from the Great North Transport board by the MEC for Transport in Limpopo for among others, nepotism, poor corporate governance, favouritism, etc.

He also got fired from the post of chairman of the Gauteng Toursim board by the then MEC Moleketi (current Dep Min Finance). That was after instituting forensic audit on the incumbent CEO before he stepped in to acting CEO position.

He was also ...shall we say relieved of his duties from SAA by the then Transnet CEO Saki Macozoma .. for incompetence. There are many out there wo could comment on this saga.

The list goes on.

Word has it that he was behind the hounding of ole Trevor out of the CAA. :ok:

Deanw

3rd Oct 2005, 10:42

From African Pilot Newsletter Vol.4 No.39:

USA FAA inspection of SA CAA

Although Mr. Gilbert Thwala has categorically denied that the USA FAA has paid the SA CAA a visit in which our landing rights could come under threat from the USA giant of aviation, our investigations have revealed that the FAA visits the SA CAA on a six monthly cycle basis. I have asked the FAA for clarity on the rumour but at the time of writing no reply has yet been forthcoming, except to acknowledge my communication. Some years ago, before 9/11, two FAA inspectors walked through Johannesburg International Airport security with hand grenades. Ever since, the FAA and ICAO have become involved in the numerous aspects of African aviation in an attempt to maintain standards. Perhaps this is also a reason why the CAHRS system was hurriedly re-launched after becoming virtually defunct.

It has been alleged that at the most recent 'check up' the FAA expressed its concern for declining standards at the SA CAA, especially in the airworthiness, accident investigation and training departments. The FAA requested a full list with CV's of the current inspectorate which was provided timorously. However, several of the CVs submitted were those of inspectors who have impressive CV's combined with years of experience, but have since left the employ of the SA CAA. The world is a small place with immediate electronic communication allowing for the quick checking of information with the person(s) concerned.

Some weeks back the SA CAA advertised for suitably qualified inspectors where the advert specifically stated that candidates would be selected for interviews based on merit and qualifications, not necessarily BEE requirements. This advert was as a direct result of the USA FAA findings. However, we have received information that six of the eight applicants were 'pale males' and their CVs were thrown out by a senior CAA manager. From this and other observations of the current status within the CAA, it appears that they are determined to change the colour balance at the regulatory body, even if this action puts aviation safety in our country at risk.

African Pilot firmly supports the making of changes and empowering the historically disadvantaged, but not at the expense of overall safety. There is no way in which years of experience can be sacrificed for orderly education in aviation, which is seriously lacking in our country. To have to witness gross mismanagement and the waste of government funds - seven million Rand - on an airshow - Mafikeng last week, instead of committing funds to an aviation educational facility is simply criminal and will not produce qualified people of excellence. We should all be looking towards education initiatives from our CAA so as to effectively make the correct changes. Fast tracking in aviation will almost certainly lead to disaster, which is something our country can ill afford in the build up to the Soccer World Cup in 2010. For further interesting reading about the current status of our South African Civil Aviation Authority please visit www.pprune.org and click on the Africa section that specifically deals with this subject.

African Tech Rep

3rd Oct 2005, 11:01

Wonder if the word “timorously” (“full list with CV's of the current inspectorate which was provided timorously”) was the intended word.
(it seems to mean timidly or fearfully – one of many references http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=timorously)

alwaysinverted

3rd Oct 2005, 13:20

Like I said before..... everytime Gilbert Thwala's lips move.... he lies!;)

Approximately 2 months ago the CAA got permission from the Board to re-employ suitably qualified white people on a contract basis. :ok:

To date, none of this has happened, as Sakhile & Peter V are toooo busy trying to figure out which of their mates they can get in there.:{ Sakhile wants more Botswanians in there, and "ol Peter" is thinking about bringing in some retired Luftwaffe or Lufthansa personnel to train the "young and upcoming, PDI aviators and inspectors. Das Mutterland ober alle! Ja Wohl!

Nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing, will change at the SACAA. Its going to become a total dysfunctional joint in the next year or so, and by that time, would have been "downgraded" to dead, zip zero, and will officially be classified as a non functioning department of a banana republic.:D

Go monkeys, go!:ok:

Beechjet

20th Nov 2005, 19:14

Brilliant!!!, After several years heading an aviation organisation I decided earlier this year to take a so call '' sabatical''. Reason, get out of the zoo before you're caged in. Some interesting comments made though, firstly I am quite curious to know who is the 2IC from SAA that joined Equity Aviation. If the individual is as $%#%#% up as made out to be then they deserve each another.

Besides, I can clearly recall having several CAA inspections, only to be disappointed at the standards adhered to, the incompetence that prevailed. Absolute idiots.

I just have this to share though, I sincerely do not beleive that BEE or any other form of employment policy has anything to do with the current mess. In fact I was recently informed that there is already interference from the current CAA EXCO in the appointment of the twice advertised CEO posts. ''Something about the job being ochestrated for a buddy''. Sorry Trevor....might want to hang out there longer. Anyway wrt to Trevor, yes turing around the old ship took quite an effort, and besides everyone makes mistakes, but then being in such an organisation, well Julius Caesar would be far safer with Brutus than some of the inviduals within the caveat of the CAA.

Must admit though that perhaps, Trevor is quite correct, a concise well documented report may be the only way to go, most importantly though it has to be based on fact and fact alone. One addition though ,when going this route it has to be made public, something along the lines of the media, etc. We cannot gamble with the economy and much more importantly with our past enviable position as a progressive state. So if there are pundits out there that want to take on this mammoth task, count me in.

In the meantime, ''our wings are our only prayer''.

Regards

Beechjet