Stick Time

[er340790]

Apparently KLM 744 pilots now average under 10 minutes actual stick time per month - autopilots engaged at 500AGL and all landings on autoland as per insurance provider insistance ........

[sleeper]

Now were did that come from??????
This is definitely not true!

[MANTHRUST]

Now were did that come from??????

Probably the west midlands!

[Piltdown Man]

Now, the former KoKo's I've spoken to didn't get much in the way of stick time (and it's not intended that the did), but even they got more than that. And the rest of the crew got significantly more. I'm also told that they attempt manual landings on a regular basis. So er340790, I'd check your sources if I were you.

[L337]

Must be fun doing autolands into Nairobi. Must be fun doing Autolands into JFK via the CRI. Must be fun doing Autolands into Mumbai. Must be fun doing Autolands with 40 kts accross. Must be total rubbish

[maxalt]

Its SOP to engage the a/p at 500'. Thats what the a/c were designed for and thats what the manufacturer recomends. What's your gripe?

The guys don't leave the seat at 500'.

[chrisN]

A question, if I may:

When the aircraft is landing on autopilot, does the pilot flying usually "guard the stick", i.e. have hands very close to the controls and be ready to take over from the A/P if necessary?

Or is the philosophy that once it's on A/P, it is going to stay that way regardless? What about go-arounds?

(Reason for asking - as an ex gliding instructor - please don't laugh - I found it as demanding, if not more so, to guard the stick when a student pilot was handling. I'm sure it kept me in at least as good practice as hands on, in that very limited scenario. Just wondered if it works the same with heavy metal.)

Chris N.

[Bealzebub]

ChrisN,

You are absolutely right first time. The controls are followed through "hands on" for just that eventuality. You really don't want the automatics failing at 50 feet whilst you sit back with your feet up.

As for this nonsense about automatic landings on all approaches, I recall a similar story doing the rounds of the naive and gullible a few months ago concerning a similar "insurance" requirement for the Airbus A380. For the uninformed an autoland can only be accomplished if the aircraft systems and pilot training and recency requirements are complied with, but much more importantly the runway in use must have an ILS system in full working operation. Many runways and indeed whole airports do not have such a facility and even those that do cannot constantly provide for its servicability.

If you try and autoland without these things it all gets very messy, ugly and expensive. These are not the sort of results insurance companies would really insist on ! :D

[sikeano]

so who wakes the poor chap so he can go home once the plane has safely landed in mumbai or nairobi or even in jfk maybe the walking frieght
;)

[Flap 5]

In my experience (12,000hrs 737, A320 and A330) autolands are very rare. In fact you often have to do autolands in good conditions just to keep in practice with the procedures. Many airports do not have the capability. It is not just the airport having an ILS it has to be at least CAT II accuracy and the holding points have to be set back from the normal holding points. The Airbus will do a good (practice) autoland on a less capable ILS but the 737 is more agricultural.

Any aircraft taxiing close to a runway which is being used by an aircraft on the approach for an ILS could effect the ILS beam. Therefore in good conditions you can do practice autolands but you may have to throw it away and land manually if the ILS is effected by taxiing aircraft.