Things to do, and things not to do.

[Fuji Abound]

There is a variety of things we can do to keep us sharp. Some dont appear to carry much risk others rather more.

Some examples, PFLs, stalls, steep turns, practice Pan calls (!), but what about fan stops on climb out, steep(ish) turns in IMC or unusual attitudes in IMC, and very low level flying. Then there are the more unusual like practice radio failures with a return to base and switching off the master switch in flight. I always remember an instructor stopping the engine in the downwind and leaving me to get on with the landing, restarting it as we ran along the runway. It came as a hell of a surprise too his "new" student I can tell you.

What do you do, including the more unusual to keep you sharp, what would you do only with a FI aboard and what do you consider too risky in any circumstances?

[Flik Roll]

Thinking about unusual emergencies, not just the ones in the FRCs and what you would do about it (thinking outside the box). Make up scenarios and then start complicating them!

I can post some examples if people want.

[GusHoneybun]

It's good to realise that not every emergency is a failed power unit. Try some of these in the circuit (with an instructor if you feel you need a little advice)

1) Try flying a circuit with a stuck throttle (ie full or partial power).
2) Fly a circuit with failed ailerons or failed elevator, or both.
3) Trim cable has snapped. Leaving the aircraft in full nose down/up trim.
4) Imagine that you had a massive puncture on rotate and need to land a much as possible on the good wheel.
5) You engine has just chucked a large amount of oil on the windscreen. Perform a landing using only the DV window (probably best get an instructor to act as safety pilot).

Knowing that you can deal with all kinds of emergencies, not just engine failures, will certainly make you a better , if not more cautious pilot.

[Flik Roll]

Birdstrike - damage to fuselage/flaps/engine etc - what sort of approach you would make?

Fuel shortage

Total instrument failure

Stuck ASI + any combination

Do you know what to do if you have an RT failure? Do you know the procedures for joining with no RT? Do you know what ATC flares/lights mean?

If practising unusual emergencies, do it with an instructor or at height (for simulated aileron failure etc)

[Yorks.ppl]

Excelent idea for a thread!

How do you simulate for failed ailerons or elevator?

no one ever suggested any proceedure for such eventualities during my training so I assumed that if either failed it was curtains, so to speak.:eek:

[DB6]

Aerobatics, followed by PFL from the overhead if the circuit's quiet. Pick your aiming point well into the runway (assuming it's long enough) and see if you can actually hit it.

[Mark 1]

How about navigating by map/compass/watch assuming GPS failure?

Don't forget Rule 5 if doing a fanstop/EFATO

[mazzy1026]

Fainting :E

Seriously though, I think this is a good thread - I am yet to pass the PPL so haven't reached the stage of the above thinking, but can understand how incredibly useful/sensible it would be to remain current in the described situations. I dread the thought of failed aeilerons though, would you use the rudder to initiate roll?

Maz :ok:

[Confabulous]

Mazzy,

Failed ailerons wouldn't be a huge problem, assuming you keep the speed up to use the rudder. Even failed elevator controls could be survivable, if the trim system is intact, and even if it isn't there's a speed at which you'll be flying in trim anyway. If you want to simulate jammed controls, just hold them neutral in the axis you're failing (easier said then done) and use the others in place, whether it's trim or primary controls.

Very surprising that there's people out there who think that non-working (jammed) ailerons would nessecarily kill you. Best person to ask about this would be an aerobatic pilot or a test pilot - I've only done the control failure stuff in sims.

[mazzy1026]

Cheers Confab - might suggest these to the instructor next week ;)

[Dimensional]

I actually carried out a similar excercise just before my GFT-equivalent: writing down every possible emergency I could think of and then writing down the immediate actions/flight profiles in a big table. It ran to three pages (!) -- a similar list to mine can be found at http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/189016-1.html (altho' I'd argue a few of these are a bit unnecessary...)

The best practice I found (if you've got an instructor handy) is to try a few compounded emergencies -- everyone *should* be able to fly a stuck throttle approach, or a simulated SRA, or a no compass/no gyro recovery, but how about all three at the same time? :E

my instructor liked being a bit of a bastard, y'see...

-D

[EGTC]

Some of these scenarios don't sound nice at all. Good ones to try would be flying an approach and landing with no ASI, and navigating with no DI, so just using the compass and allowing for turning errors.

Do you know the procedures for joining with no RT?
If at my local airport, I'd just give the tower a phone call when I'm at the VRP, a mobile phone join ;)

[Flik Roll]

Aerobatics, followed by PFL from the overhead if the circuit's quiet. Pick your aiming point well into the runway (assuming it's long enough) and see if you can actually hit it.

If you are going to do this...remember engine warms every thousand feet and Ts and Ps check (especially if its a PFL from height: this is the most commom way of breaking engines through shock cooling.

Dimensional - same as you. I even was expecting a total instrument failure leading to formation lead/follow back for a normal cct(alas, it never happened!).


Mazzy...whether or not you have passed your PPL, you will still be flying solo. Every emergency and scenario is worth a thought. I always sit and conjure up scenarios. As a student pilot, always fear the worst :E

[Dimensional]

a total instrument failure leading to formation lead/follow back for a normal cct
Interesting. Was that what you expected on your FHT? Although it's theoretically possible, I've never heard of someone getting impromptu form'n on their FHT. I'd have thought it'd be easier to try and recover as a singleton -- as all the form'n can do for you is get you into the circuit (assuming you didn't try a formation landing as a stude). TBH you could (probably -- I'd like to try it) recover using just pitch and throttle position... :\

-D

[Yorks.ppl]

Failed ailerons wouldn't be a huge problem, assuming you keep the speed up to use the rudder. Even failed elevator controls could be survivable

Does this assume that the ailerons/elevator have failed and are jammed in one position?

Would they be likely to flap around?

Very interesting subject this.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

approach and landing with no ASI Having read about how this kills people from time to time, I did it with an instructor and found it not to be a problem at all.

Just like I don't have a problem flying in cloud -- with an instructor sitting next to me.

From which I deduce that it's the empty right hand seat that actually kills people, and it's not clear how to simulate that.

[Flik Roll]

Dimensional:

Interesting. Was that what you expected on your FHT? Although it's theoretically possible, I've never heard of someone getting impromptu form'n on their FHT. I'd have thought it'd be easier to try and recover as a singleton

We had a stude a while back have that as an emergency, and if there's another a/c in the area why not get a loose lead back - lessens the work load as you know the form'n refs/power settings and they just fly speeds and you just keep up. Takes off some of the work load.

[EGTC]

From which I deduce that it's the empty right hand seat that actually kills people, and it's not clear how to simulate that.
Its impossible to simulate an empty right hand seat. Sure the student can do all the flying, all the navigating, all the RT, or even go as far as not speaking to their instructor at all. But we all know that when the s**t hits the fan the instructor will take control and forget everything about the student pretending to be solo, and rightly so. I'm just saying solo can't be simulated, your either solo, or your not.

[ChrisVJ]

This is a very useful thread.

Ailerons etc. I would not have thought a lost aileron would be survivable however at Abbotsford Airshow last month there was a very fine display of energy management flying without an aileron. It is survivable but do we have the skill?

After a recent accident the investigator took up another of the same model and explored the envelope flying with full stuck aileron and full stuck rudder and showed that the plane could be handled with either. That too is a scenario I had not thought to investigate.

Couple of years ago one of our group lost an elevator hinge and flew the plane down from nearly 10,000 ft to a water landing with the elevator trailing awkwardly and controlling with the other.

I had an exhaust break yesterday, couldn't see it but there was plenty of vibration and I did not know what that was (She's a pusher, engine is back there over the wing.) When I got home the air over the airfield was foul, on finals I was seeing 45 deg bank and getting thrown off line, threw me completely, Got her down to a really neat flare, just forgot to lower the gear. Big whiteline down the blacktop and I've got a couple of days fibregalssing to do. Lucky there was no other damage but, as we all know, distraction is a real bu**er. You may have practised all these scenarios but could you do it if you were getting thrown around and scared and still do all the checks?

I guess I just moved from "those who will."

[MichaelJP59]

I suppose the fine judgement to be made is whether it is too dangerous to simulate the problem. For example, haven't Canberra jets been lost in single engine practice?

Although they're not perfect by any means, it's quite fun to practice really radical emergencies on a PC simulator.

[ChrisVJ]

Suspect there are more planes damaged in touch and goes, experienced pilots included, than in regular end of trip landing accidents. Always rather surprises me that we spend so much time doing the most dangerous bit. This seems speciallyto happen to 'on water' touch and goes.

I was thinking after posting last night, I'm not too worried about pushing the rudder over and then seeing how she flies on the ailerons but I am a bit nervous about pushing the ailerons over and seeing how she flies on rudder. How far do you let it go before you give up?

[EGTC]

I was thinking after posting last night, I'm not too worried about pushing the rudder over and then seeing how she flies on the ailerons but I am a bit nervous about pushing the ailerons over and seeing how she flies on rudder. How far do you let it go before you give up?
Well I'd guess that if the ailerons or the rudder lock up in flight, they can only lock up in the position they're in at the time. So the maximum position the ailerons could lock in is only the maximum aileron input you use in flight. So you wouldn't ever have to cope with the ailerons locked in the full position. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Also flying with the rudder locked in position could be dangerous, as everytime you turn against the direction of the rudder you\'ll sideslip and end up with a very high rate of descent. So I suppose just make all turns in the same direction as the rudder deflection.

[Yorks.ppl]

Well I'd guess that if the ailerons or the rudder lock up in flight, they can only lock up in the position they're in at the time.

Isn't it much more likely that they would simply stop responding to control input but still be free to move rather than "lock up"
assuming that they were either cable or pushrod controlled then they would work right up untill the cable finally broke or a loose bolt fell out at which point they would be likely to be free to move.
The control column doesn't just move the control surfaces it also holds them where you want them.

So how could you continue to fly with freely flaping control surfaces?

Would the control surfaces "castor" with the airflow like the steering wheels of a car when being towed? therefoer making it possible to control the aircraft?

Much better brains than mine needed to answer this methinks.

[EGTC]

assuming that they were either cable or pushrod controlled then they would work right up untill the cable finally broke or a loose bolt fell out at which point they would be likely to be free to move.
Sorry I was wrong about what I said, your right. So if they're free to move they could flutter and over stress the airframe :}

[DRJAD]

I, too, think this thread is invaluable.

There is, however, a limit to how sensible it is to practice (or should I say overpractice) emergency situations. I think we have looked in general at specific problems, and how they could be mitigated in order to make a safe landing. Many problems, though, will manifest as a combination of several individual events.

I suspect, therefore, that what we should concentrate upon is to establish the principles of mitigating system failure, so that multiple systems failures, or indeed a single system failure manifesting in a way differing from those we have practiced, can be survivable.

A long-winded way, perhaps, of saying don't just practice, think as well.

[FlyingForFun]

An interesting question is this: when a control failure happens, what should your initial reaction be?

For example, on this thread we've touched very briefly on the difference between a jammed control (not impossible if the previous pilot "forgets" to mention that he lost his pen, and it finds its way into the control mechanism), and a fluttering control (again, not impossible if the control cable snaps). So to simply talk about "aileron failure" doesn't give us the full picture.

If you were to realise that the ailerons had "failed", how would you go about determining the nature of the failure? Would it be a good idea, for example, to climb up to a safe height, and experiment at various different airspeeds, to see how the other controls react, especially as you slow down (after all, you will need to slow down to flare and land at some point)? Let's assume it's day, and good VMC.

If we agree that it's going to be necessary to explore the nature of the failure before attempting a landing, then maybe we could argue that it's a bad thing to practice this type of failure too much beforehand. After all, if we practice one type of failure, and then another similar but different failure happens, would we be likely to make (possibly incorrect) assumptions about how the aircraft will react on landing, based on our previous practice, and therefore not spend as much time exploring those controls we have left as we ought to? Would it not be better to have not practiced any type of "generic" control failure, but instead to find out the exact nature of a control failure when it actually happens?

Before you answer, though, what if the control failure happens at night? Or in IMC? Maybe now it's not quite so appropriate to try to explore the failure when it happens? And how about rudder failure - would we want to risk stalling the aircraft, even at a safe height, knowing we have some kind of rudder failure and may not be able to avoid or recover from a spin?

Just food for thought - I don't know the answers, I'm not even sure if there is actually a "correct" answer..... My only experience was a flap failure, at night, last year. I considered taking the aircraft up to a safe height to explore the low-speed envelope before landing, to make sure I didn't get any unexpected wing-drop. But since it was night, I decided this was more dangerous than just attempting a landing and seeing what happened. Turned out the flaps were both deployed evenly, so no adverse effects on landing, but I couldn't be sure of that until I landed. I think I'd probably handle the situation the same way if it happened again.

FFF
----------------

[slim_slag]

FFF, I don't have an authoritative answer but present the following. An Alaskan Airways MD83 had a loss of control back in 2000 which resulted in loss of all lives on board. I mention this because a lot of work was done on investigating the accident with an NTSB Report (pdf) (http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2002/AAR0201.pdf) which makes interesting reading.

(Just reread it and edited to add this)

The Safety Board notes that an airplane with flight control problems should be
handled in a slow and methodical manner and that any configuration that would aid a
landing should be maintained if possible.

............

The Safety Board concludes that flight
crews dealing with an in-flight control problem should maintain any configuration change
that would aid in accomplishing a safe approach and landing, unless that configuration
change adversely affects the airplane's controllability.


Recommendations include..

Issue a flight standards information bulletin directing air carriers to instruct
pilots that in the event of an inoperative or malfunctioning flight control
system, if the airplane is controllable they should complete only the
applicable checklist procedures and should not attempt any corrective
actions beyond those specified

...

Pilots should further be instructed that if checklist procedures are not
effective, they should land at the nearest suitable airport.


So you ask "Would it be a good idea, for example, to climb up to a safe height, and experiment at various different airspeeds, to see how the other controls react, especially as you slow down (after all, you will need to slow down to flare and land at some point)? "

From my reading of this recommendation, which may well be wrong, I would say you shouldn't. There aren't checklists for these things in spamcans, so don't be a test pilot and if it flies well enough to get it to altitude, it flies well enough to get it on the ground ASAP.

[ChrisVJ]

If, say an Aileron control cable breaks it would probably be the one under most tension, ie, "down" for that aileron.

Result (by deduction) 1) that aileron flaps up until the airflow over it is neutral, 2.) That wing drops 3.) The pressure against the underside of the opposite aileron is no longer balanced and will be felt at the stick.

If you release the pressure on the stick the second aileron too will rise until it is airflow neutral. Hopefully the plane will then be at some kind of stability. You will still certainly be able to roll towards the failed aileron, I guess whether you can roll the other way will depend whether the airflow neutral position of an aileron is all the way up or just part way, probably depending on plane. If you can achieve this stability you might get home on the rudder.

Stuck aileron ( by foreign object) is different and probably more likely, but I'm just thinking out loud here about what we can consider logically.