Nationwide Engine Out

[Cessnafan]

Heard Nationwide this afternoon on their way back to JIA with an engine failure, anyone got details?

[captain cumulonimbus]

i think it was nationwide 736,they got up to around fl270 then called in with number 1 engine failure.it was really a nonevent,they got priority onto rwy 03R,landed fine and,i must say,they sounded consummately professional on frequency.well done sir,and ma'am:ok:

[Maurice Chavez]

Why take rwy 03R with an emergency or anormal procedure? Just ask for 03L, believe me you'll get it, had it twice already.

[D228]

You use 03R so that you don't effect Int. departures if you end up closing the runway.

[SortieIII]

It's 03L for me......other departures can wait! :suspect:

[Bravo Echo November]

Loss of oil press. Engine did not fail just had to shut it down to make sure engine does not get damaged!

[farmpilot]

Or Sortie III use the other runway! Delaying departures because of a sick jet, that's the last thing I would be thinking about....... As far as I'm concerned getting it down the best way possible for the pax and me is the only concern. Int departures can taxi a bit further:ok:

farmpilot

[Gunship]

SAA got the news through this time (took a while) :E

Wonder what SAA paid to get this news .. I mean Monday and it is now Friday afternoon ? :ugh: :ugh:



09/09/2005 14:31 - (SA)

:} Estrelita Moses :}

Cape Town - A passenger on board a Nationwide Airlines flight was left reeling on Monday night by the seeming non-chalance of the plane's captain after its No 1 engine was shut down.

The flight which was meant to leave Johannesburg for Cape Town at 16:25 was delayed by half an hour.

"About 35 minutes into the flight, the captain announced the No 1 engine had failed and we were returning to Johannesburg," passenger Athol Williams told News24.

"The flight back to Johannesburg was absolutely traumatic. I fly between Cape Town and Joburg almost twice a week and have never experienced anything like this. I'm a mechanical engineer by training and understand a plane can fly with just one engine but not hearing anything from the captain to reassure us things were under control was terrifying.

"As the plane twisted, dropped and rattled, I was convinced we were in serious trouble. Many passengers were having serious anxiety attacks."

The plane made it back to Johannesburg safely but the airline's response was far from adequate, according to Williams. "I was appalled by Nationwide staff's reaction. All the captain said was 'apologies for the inconvenience, these things happen'.

"This was of very little comfort to passengers who'd had a brush with death."

No formal announcement

Arrangements were made for passengers to catch another flight. "But even on that second flight, not much was said. Although the captain did walk through the plane and chat to a few passengers no formal announcement or apology was made. And we're still waiting for an apology, it's the least one can expect."

Another passenger who did not want to be identified also said staff didn't appear to be "too perturbed" by the incident. "The announcement was very quiet. All I wanted to do was get off the plane, I wanted to become hysterical. We did hear a bang.

"The weather was horrendous and the flight out was very bumpy to start with. After being told thrice by the captain the plane had lost one engine, the thought of turning around and flying back an engine down wasn't exactly comforting.

"Although it did appear to be contained and most passengers were relatively calm, it was clear they were shaken. I held the passenger next to me's hand the entire way back to Joburg.

She added that once the plane had landed and passengers had disembarked, a cursory glance revealed it appeared the engine had opened up and was leaking.

[b]"It's the first and last time I fly with Nationwide." [/u]

Commercial manager for Nationwide Airlines, Roger Whittle, denied allegations that the pilot or cabin crew had acted inappropriately.

"Feedback I got from some passengers was that the incident had been handled superbly by the cabin crew. And that the cabin crew in particular had been very calm and reassuring.

An abnormal occurrence

Whittle said the "failed" engine wasn't an emergency, but "an abnormal occurrence". A warning light had appeared on the instrument panel in the cockpit, which required that the engine be shut down for safety reasons.

The flight returned to Johannesburg and landed safely without incident. "At no time were the passengers in danger, it was simply precautionary," he added. "A standby flight was made available immediately so passengers could continue on their journey.

"Pilots and cabin crew are trained to handle these situations and as far as I've heard they handled it well. The pilot in question is usually very interactive with passengers so I'm surprised to hear the complaint.

"I think passengers on flights have become incredibly sensitive about flying due to the terror attacks and so on which probably makes a lot of people jumpy." Whittle did stress, however, that any complaint would be addressed.

The Link (http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_1768066,00.html)

[Shrike200]

Jeepers, if I hear another "Oooooh, the Captain says one of the static wicks/engines/wings has fallen off, it's nothing to worry about but obviously I have to hold hands with everyone/pray/cry/have a panic attack" news article, I'm going to puke! :yuk:

They must think we have nerves of steel to sit in these obviously borderline lethal machines every day. I mean ANY abnormality is a 'brush with death!' :(

[Bravo Echo November]

I hate when pax make such a huge fuss about things like this. The pilots landed the aircraft safe at JNB without any injuries or worries.

What about driving to and from the airport? Ever thought twice about the car infront suddenly coming to a stop! What goes through your mind then? Do you also tell the press about the fear you had? If you think of how many aircraft flies on a daily basis without any problem. Surely every now and then a engine will pick up a problem, or a pilot might have to turn back for safety reasons.

I give the Capt all the credit he deserves for turning back and making sure everybody arrives safe!

All the bumps and sounds-we all know how bumpy it gets this time of the year with the westerly winds.

If people are so affraid then take the bus! Flying is was and will always be the safest way of travel! (my humble oppinion)

[George Tower]

Journalist and passenger concerned should be put up against a wall and shot.

What next pax will start sueing for post traumatic stress when turbulence is encountered.:yuk:

[ou Trek dronkie]

Georgi Boy -

Your reaction is a little extreme – would you pull the trigger yourself ??? You must remember that pax are not experts (as is every one who posts on Pprune of course, sorry, I was forgetting that).

And as for you Ben, don’t knock the pax who, through ignorance (not a sin in my book) feel a bit rough afterwards. Were you ever there ? Easy man, be kind to the folks who pay the bills, you sound like a frustrated pantry pilot. It is so cheap to knock the pax, IMHO.

Captain Cb, as for you, well, with respect, I dispute your blasé contention that single engined flight, for any reason, in a twin, is a non-event.

Another thing, do not Nationwide not always sound “consummately professional” ? Twaak man.

Farmpilot seems to have a better handle on it than you do.

As for you Estreltia, Estrelizia, Extrellia, Orstralia, ag, I give up, moenie ‘n chalance vat nie..

It was simply a good job, well done, just like every other flight. Don’t get too excited about it guys. That’s what flying is all about.

ou Tired be-Donnered

[George Tower]

O.T.D

I think the sentiment in these esteemed fora is that there is just perhaps a few too many non life threatening situations being reported in the media as dicing with death.

Why if in both this incident and the 1-Time incident are the pilots not being hailed as life saving heros?

Surely if this guy is so please he has his life, where is the gratitude.

I suspect you're being contrary just for the heck of it. Nothing wrong with that:p

[sky waiter]

This is such a load of k*k, since when does a plane rattle and twist, surely if a mechanical engineer or whatever knows the aircraft can fly on one engine then whats the problem? Does he expect the captain to grovel around on the floor in the cabin while the jet returns? And the captain apologised for the inconvenience but all the pax were looking for was an an apology. From personal experience the cabin crew are well trained to remain calm and would have handled the situation admirably.

Would fly CE any day!!!!

Sensationalism should at least be researched to some degree before making statements like the above. :yuk: :yuk:

[REAL ORCA]

Remember the days when flying was dangerous and sex was safe...........!:O

[Gunship]

When you weighed 80 kg and I was a healthy young man on 65 kg and we drank on my house roof till the sun came up .. :yuk:

[4HolerPoler]

And I thought that a "fyndraai" was a tight base leg to finals ;).......ahem, gentlemen back to the topic please, we have heros to congratulate & nervous pax to console.

4HP

[ANVAK]

OK - pity though, I was just starting to enjoy the direction this thread was taking....:D
Bottom line is that we have had at least five airliners going down in the last month - with the associated horror stories and the fiery pics to back it up.
Not the kind of PR material that builds confidence in passengers, who know no difference between a Piper Cub and a 340-600.
They'll be totally shaken by anything slightly out of the ordinary, so maybe a normal 25 degree bank angle would suddenly feel like "twisted, dropped and rattled"!
To add to OTD's post - just remember that these people pay us to fly them from A to B safely and comfortably. Don't blame them when we don't.

[fluffyfan]

Although I have issues with Nationwides reccurent training (and 1time) or lack thereof.........to little.............They did a good job, not to be unexpected and as said previously a non event.

And as usual the press rises to the occasion with reports of impending death and twisting and turning, screaming passengers etc etc.............hey was it a MG 08 or a 737 this time....

[Nellis]

Real orca, now we are talking about the serious stuff. :E

[Knoppiesdoorn]

....... and offcourse our Part 121 Flying Inspectors at CAA ensures that all the airlines do their regular sim checks........

[Miragepilote]

According to a SCAA inspector, Mr. P. Leesdontpaneec, SCAA will introduce new measures to ensure passenger comfort after the latest engine shutdown on Nationpride Airelynes:

He was quoted as saying:

“Eesh, All checkleests and companee procedures for engine shutdowns weell categoricallee be changed, appropriatelee for ALL de major aviation companies operating on domesteec routes in Efrica.”

He continued by saying that SCAA were investigating the incident and will convene, at the taxpayers expense, an enquiry to prevent a repetition of the incident. He continued by saying that this will be done to prevent unbiased media reporting and to possibly prevent passenger anxiety and PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder) on local domestic flights, due to turbulence, precautionary engine shutdowns and calm and non apologetic aircrew during and after emergencies”.

The following recommendations have already been suggested by SCAA:

1. Issuing all captains with guns in case of emergency, i.e. precautionary engine shutdowns.
2. In addition to annual CRiMe and Dangerous Foods courses, a course in basic Crowd Control and Stress Management in confined spaces to be introduced into the curriculum for pilots and cabin crew. He suggested the navy be approached to investigate how they do this in submarines.
3. Introducing a new and revised checklist, including an in-flight briefing, to be done directly after a mandatory Mayday call, covering engine shutdowns to prevent panic among the passengers, cabin crew and ATMS alike.
4. This training will have to be conducted on a bi-annual basis at pilots cost or company cost.

SALPA had already lodged an objection, asking how you could trust an affirmative action pilot with a gun. They expressed their concerns saying that it would increase the risk of hijacking themselves by 50%, and were not able to say what could happen with female pilots and PMS.

They also mentioned that if the company should cover the cost of the additional training, that the cost will be offset against the passenger fares.




My suggestion to the captains out there in these airlines, in the not so perfect world, in case of having to do a precautionary engine shutdown:

Either say nothing at all, not even to ATMS and so avoid personal and company embarrassment and financial loss.

Or,

In accordance with the new proposed legislation, switch off the transponder, switch off the FDR and do the Mayday call and then switch off the radios.

Then make a desperate in-flight call, in your best and most panicked stricken voice, to the passengers, screaming and shouting in great Aire Agipt style, that you think everybody is going to die and that they should brace for the impact.

In this time of extreme danger, show leadership and courage under stress by leading the last prayers in all of the 11 official languages and Arabic, just for in case there isn’t a Goat and ask everyone to scribble a last note on note pads handed out by panicking, crying air hostesses. Also KINDLY ask the passengers to not sue the airline for all it is worth and to sign the "INCASE OF PRECAUTIONARY INFLIGHT ENGINE SHUTDOWN" indemnity form.

Then walk through the cabin, do basic crowd control and stress management by shooting those that are panicking, to wound only, with the issued and approved gun, while thinking that the money you spent on the bi-annual courses were really worth it.

Do all this while your affirmative action co-pilot, who failed his last checkride is flying badly and should have been doing this job, placing the passengers at even greater risk, without them even knowing. Continue even if you don't like to see and hear the whimpers of begging passengers, but full well knowing that AA's couldn't be trusted with either, the gun or the job.

Also shoot any passengers who has pulled out a cell phone to call their loved ones or the media, as the use of electronic equipment isn't allowed and they should have listened to the safety briefing.

Reasoning: If you are jeopardising their safety by flying on one engine then they are jeopardising the safety of the aircraft by using their cell phones. What's fair is fair and you have the gun.

Also shoot anyone who has got up to go to the toilet or get something from their bags in the overhead lockers while the seatbelt signs are on, due to the turbulence and buffeting caused by the max rate 1 turn at 20 degrees of bank on the return to the nearest diversion airport or leading newspaper or television station.

This will teach them that their safety comes first.

Then call your crew together, including the smuggling, arrogant ones. Now calmly brief the rest of the non bleeding passengers about what happened, in detail. Also use this time to let the cabin attendants with AIDS take care of the bleeding passengers.

Use your CRiMe skills, and offer your most sincere apology, on behalf of the company and aviation in general, for doing a precautionary engine shut down and causing them all such inconvenience. Then explain that you were only trying to prevent a major engine and wing fire, in which they probably all would have died in a ball of smoke and fire anyway, without even striking any major obstacles.

And then your last responsibility, according to the new SCAA and company regulations, offer anybody 2 free tickets with the “doomed airline” you’re flying for, a lifetime platinum membership and a eat as much as you like airline food voucher on all domestic and international flights, should they decide to go to the newspapers….(sic)

THIS IS A PARODY and please should not be taken seriously, as shouldn’t our “educated and non-educated” passengers reliving their “last moments” and neither the media presenting the sensational front page story.:p

[captain cumulonimbus]

with respect,Ou TREK DRONKIE ,one-engine-out procedures are a part of what we train so hard for...they are,in fact,anticipated by manufacturers (hence the fact that figures and data exist for this state)...and a plane such as the 732 is quite capable of single engine flight,particularly,as i believe was the case here,when the shutdown was precautionary,and not the result of fire or structural failure.

So its not blase to say their landing-a situation drilled for regularly that resulted in a perfect landing-was a nonevent.

And i'm only reporting what i heard,which was that the crew sounded very calm and in control in what is a very high workload situation i very congested airspace.

I sympathise with pax who are not a well informed and percieve a danger where there is none,but sensationalism like the type this gentleman in the newspaper is spreading is out of line...THERE WAS NO DANGER,therefore i see no reason why the capt should scare pax MORE by announcing an emergency.They should all pinch themselves...see...theyre all still alive!

[orgasmotron]

Fluffy Fan,

I got a copy of the complete 1 Time and Comair SOP's and recurrent training programs. Very similar, CAA approved and both companies stick to their programmes religiously. Both do similar simulator recurrent training. Nothing wrong with that, as was proven with the recent engine failures !

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Fluffy

Having worked for both 1Time and Nationwide, you're obviously an authority on their training procedures.....:rolleyes:

[Deanw]

I held the passenger next to me's hand the entire way back

How come this never happens to me while seated next to some sexy blonde? :E

[fluffyfan]

orgasmoron..................I am guessing you work for Nationwide (727) good for you............... Now I have a friend who is on the 737 fleet, and yes yearly simulator checks are done.....I did not say you are breaking any laws (although you and I know that you guys look the other way all the time), all I said is I have problems with your recurrent training..........At SAA, EVERY PILOT, has to pass a PREC every year and an SREC every year, every 6 months you are in the simulator, now that is what should happen at Nationwide and 1time, but it does not, because its expensive, maybe 1time should put that in there next "Tune you the Facts Advert".............I know its not in the rules, but most airlines who take training seriously do 6 monthly simulator checks...........But I guess you guys are better pilots hey...........

Solid Rust................OK.........get into an airline first then we will argue.....oh wait do we get the "poor taxpayer argument" again, boet I hope you are taking the telkom issue as seriously as the SAA one, they too are a leech on the SA tax payer.

[captain cumulonimbus]

Guys guys guys...
I respect all your points of view,but i think the issue at hand is not one of recurrent training or lack thereof-the crew DID land the a/c safely,with no damage/injury.That,i believe,says it all.The fact is,it was a 'routine' event we ALL train for,and they did it according to procedure and,by all accounts (aviationally speaking),they did it well.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Fluffy

Poor taxpayer? If the cap fits, old fruit.........:rolleyes:

Have no doubt that Telkom and other money wasting parastatals are also high on my **** list.

[orgasmotron]

Fluffy Flyer. Got it all wrong. Do not work for NTW. In fact never worked for a domestic airline in SA. However got good friends at NTW and 1Time. 1 Time does profficiency checks every 6 months, and sim every 2nd profficiency check. They also do tech refresher, AWOPS, Performance, Flight Planning and all the other required training annually. Remember, very few companies have sims in SA. In fact, 1 Time have a very progressive sim and recurrent training program. NTW does the training required and improves on standards every year. I agree that NTW could maybe do sim bi-annualy since the 737 sims are in SA. Would be much cheaper than to do every alternate prof check on the aircraft like 1 Time. I wonder if SAA was a private company and had to send all their crews to Europe or USA for sim, if they would still do it every 6 months?

Twotter is right, this is not about the training, the crew got it right both times! But why are you SAA oaks forever slanting the smaller guys or anything non-SAA for that matter? Also remember SAA is not a real airline. Real airlines have to make a profit, employ competent and experienced people in order to reduce training costs and still operate a safe airline. SAA, with all the training in the world also had a few mishaps that could have been prevented, like everbody else. Nobody is perfect.

A few retired SAA pilots fly at NTW. Lowering their standards, or is that not what you imply? I am sure they would not do that. So maybe NTW ok.

We all share the same airspace and all airlines have their own problems, but they deal with it. Passop for being so high and mighty, looking down on you collegues. Remember it is the companies that is in competetion, not the pilots!

Every crew that handles an emergency proficiently, should be given the credit. Do not have to dig into their comapnies policies and procedures.

Again, well done boys and girls.

[Knoppiesdoorn]

If you read Part 121.03.6 you will see that there is no doubt about having to do a recurrent training every six months.

I don't think it has changed but CAA considers the I/F renewal as a recurrent check and six months later you do the recurrent check as requied by the Part 121 regulations. Thus a check ride every six months.

Remember the I/F renewal is a licence requirement, recurrent training is a Part 121 requirement, that is if you are employed by a 121 operator. It is(was) the same for a 135 operator and not a very popular regulation at all!

[captain cumulonimbus]

Nice post ORGASMOTRON :ok:

[Bravo Echo November]

Just to put the records straight guys, CE does do sim prof checks for the fluffy guys every 6 months! Either on SAA or Comair sims.

[Knoppiesdoorn]

I thought so and Vernon will not interfere.

[fluffyfan]

Ok well if thats the case I apologise, was not aware NW did that if so good to see...........however I suspect shortcuts are taken now and then (sorry had to add that last bit........just what I hear from very reliable sources, working on 200's there)