Pilot-a blue-collar job?

[babyboeing400]

read the book "Ask the pilot" by patrick smith..according to the author,a commercial airline pilot is a blue-collar job(although many pilots loathe to admit it)..What is your say?

[Fg Off Max Stout]

I remember hearing some time ago that there are two types of jobs: those where you have a shower before work; and those where you shower after work (or both). I can tell you that military helicopter flying and probably airline flying, falls into the latter category. Of course, some people don't shower at all, but that's a different thread.

By this analogy, and the belief of many that we are just glorified drivers, some might suggest that piloting is a blue-collar job. If, however, you look at the duration and cost of training, the continuous assessment, the entry requirements and the potential rewards the classification is more obvious. It is clear to see that flying is a true 'profession' (as opposed to a job) and is therefore much more white than blue-collar.

Where do you think 'pilot' fits in?
1. Mechanic, waiter, manual labourer, farm hand, pole dancer;) , etc.
2. Doctor, lawyer, engineer, military officer, police officer, etc.

[willfly380]

the pilot has to study a lot,infact all his life.bus driver doesnt.the pilot has to go through skill test in the simulator every six months and a route check again every six months. he has to under go a refresher course every year. he has to go through a medical every sixmonths. and of course he faces dynamic situations on a every day basis.the heart surgeon doesnt have to do any refresher training ,or even the esteemed bus driver i dont think has to go through anything like what i mentioned above or even an esteemed engineer for that matter doesnt have to do it.
still why do some people [read non pilots] love to put the pilot down every single time.i dont ever remember going to a bus drivers website or an engineers website.so if you think its a blue collar job then its your problem not ours. as fars as i am concerned its the best damn job in the world.
and boy next time you are on a plane think about it , dont do it from the ground .

[pax britanica]

A Very UK class conscious question, Surely its not the job itself its the gradations within it make the difference.

Police Officer white collar ? no chance not for the basic plod on the beat maybe Inspector and up yes.

Pilots=airline pilot clearly professional -as indicated from qualifications check ups etc etc , but an Ag pilot -well maybe thats blue collar and proudly so.

When you look at it you have to question the whole issue and which category one would like to fall into anyway
example professional footballer -Premiership- cannot string two words together but can string passes- blue collar earns 80K a week

Fireman-much respected -blue collar
Lawyers , Estate Agents , generally reviled white collar

Anyway thats a non pilot perspective, perhaps to be really facetious and pick up a common thread on PPrune how about defining it this way

Boeing Pilot -big hefty control device would be Blue collar
Airbus Pilot- little side stick, IT professional ,white collar

PB

[too much toulouse]

My uniform shirt is blue. I have platinum bars upon my shoulders but not chips. I work mostly with my hands and my brain is small. My job is not listed in the phone book under "Professions". If I need an architect that is where I look. If he needs to fly he books a seat. If I need a doctor I go to mine and she treats me and the lawyer alike. When my father needs a labourer I go to him and I am not any less his son.

[babyboeing400]

i'm not trying to belittle the pilot profession..in fact i'm a pilot myself(well,at least close to be,i am a cadet pilot for a major airline in the far east and i'm due for graduation in a few months in the CPL/IR with frozen ATPL course and i have a ppl)..what worries me is do airline captains have a say in management?since they might be categorized as highly-paid "blue-collar" workers in some countries.........i mean the captain might have the final say in how much flaps to use for a landing..but his opinion wont be much valued in the board meeting to change the management infrastructure of the company..thats assuming that he even SITS in the board meeting....:rolleyes: i know there are mangement pilots but how far do they go? and how many line pilots eventually become management pilots?

just my 0.02.correct me if i'm wrong....

[westhawk]

These kinds of distinctions between what job descriptions are "professional", "vocational" or "labor" are always capable of stirring up a lively debate. The problem lies within the question of what attributes should be used to determine which jobs to place in which category. Here are a few possibilities:

First, what I believe to be the more objective distinctions.

1) Level of training and/or education strictly required to fill this position to the expected standard of performance. Includes required certifications. May or may not be indicative of the level of mental acuity required. Today"s schools are very effective at training students to pass tests.

2) Level of experience or record of demonstrated ability required to perform this job function. More difficult to define since it varies widely among individuals and job functions. But is often an indicator of one's position along the progression from enty-level trainee to professional or journeyman practitioner. Usually involves the long-term development of job-specific skills and knowledge.

3) Level of responsibility, or more to the point, the possible consequences of failure to live up to it. Is this a position in which the individual will be called upon to make important decisions? Is leadership a part of the job description? Supervision or management of human and capital resources will require additional skills beyond those required at the entry level.

Any number of factors might affect the public perception of a job or career field's position in the social hierarchy. Among them:

1) How much does it pay?

2) How much responsibility does it entail?

3) How smart or skilled do they have to be?

4) Do they dress well, speak well and appear "professional" in manner? Don't laugh too hard at this one until you bring this up in social conversation a few times!

5) Finally, and most importantly, Do they have a proffessional organization which has consistently and effectively represented their interests to the public in a positive light? Effective PR services cannot be understated in their long-term effects on the public perception.

So is the job/career of pilot blue collar or white collar? The answer is.... YES! Even though mine is often tinged with brown after a summer day's flying!

Using the above stated possibilities for classification, it is either or both. Getting the job should depend mostly on the upper set of criteria while your place in the social hierarchy as perceived by the general public depends largely on the lower. Pay and working rules are subject to the complex market forces of supply/demand and the balance of power between opposing management/labor forces. These competing forces also affect the nature of government regulation to a great degree. As does the public or political outcry after big crashes.

Being a career pilot is clearly (to me anyway) a profession that also requires many "blue collar" attributes while demanding a "white collar" sense of responsibility and accountability. Come to think of it, so did my old job of Airframe and Powerplant mechanic. Skilled tradesman with professional responsibilities. The distinctions between the responsibility of these jobs is much smaller than most people realize. The military concept of command seems to be the biggest difference in how they are viewed. Pilots as Officers and all others except management seen as enlisted personnel. Class distinction. Well, we pilots seem to be slipping down the social ladder these days, so don't get too comfortable! Or too proud to put on that blue shirt.

Best regards,

Westhawk

[AirRabbit]

In the "for-what-it's-worth" department, I havn't read any post in this thread to this point that is wrong or that I wouldn't agree with from start to finish. That is precisely why I think that Westhawk has hit the nail, squarely on the head -- and, I think that too much toulouse has said the same thing in perhaps the most eloquent manner. Right-on gentlemen (with full knowledge and understanding of the term)!

[Piltdown Man]

Definitely blue. We are the same as drivers in any other industry (road, rail etc.). It's just that our licences cost considerably more to get and when we foul up, the results are very widely broadcast. We also put our nads in the line on a regular basis (checks, training, medical) and have very expensive equipment to look after. In return, we are generally able to change more for our labour than most other blue collar workers. Just so long as not too many muppets are prepared to work for nothing!

[John Farley]

I always reckon I have been working if I have to wash my hands before I take a pee.

[Burnt Fishtrousers]

Im a graduate Engineer, my white collar was looking pretty grimy yesterday so I put on a blue one this morning

As for Engineers and re training...someone suggested we dont re train....How wrong they are.We need to keep upto date with the latest technology so we can incorporate these advances, in things like ..err .....Aeroplanes, for example. Ever heard of CPD (Continuous Professional Development)

Of course us engineers undergo re training. The component parts and design of a Rolls Royce Trent are totally different to a Pratt and Whitney JT8D...I wouldnt want a RR qualified Mechanic working on the Pratt and Whitney without any form of re training and I suspect you pilots would express the same sentiment..

Legislation is forcing re training of all sorts of skill sets in all sorts of industries, some more consequential than others

I dont go much on the colour of ones collar, "Engineer" covers all types of collar, grimy , neatly starched in white or otherwise. Some of us engineers even have flat caps with a "flash point"

[Genghis the Engineer]

I'm not sure that the distinction is valid any more.

My main profession is Engineering; I'm often found in a suit (white collar), occasionally in overalls (blue collar, actually mine are green), when I've no meetings, jeans and an open necked shirt.

On occasion I fly aeroplanes, where the clothing depends upon aircraft and role.


However, these two jobs have something very much in common. They are critical, skilled, highly trained, professional jobs. So, I'd count both Engineering and flying as "professional", and the white.v.blue collar is meaningless.

Scientists, doctors, archeologists... there are many other professions which share these characteristics. The blue.v.white frankly belongs in the unionised 1960s and 1970s and should be left long behind.

G