Light Aircraft Down in Irish Sea - Report

[justanotherflyer]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0904/search.html

Said to be a PA28 ex Weston (Dublin) to Cardiff Sunday morning.

[aviate1138]

Usual innaccurate reporting or merely a misname?

Piper PA23 Apache is a twin and has been for decades.

Maybe they meant Arrow. :)


Aviate1138

[EI-WAT]

Aircraft is G-EMAZ which is a PA28

[mini]

Bad vis in that area today, down to 200M in places. Reports of a Nimrod having spotted wreckage. Doesn't look good.

[flower]

So many of us have been working on this , we had a bad feeling right from the start.
Had yet to hear about any wreckage reports.
Oh dear, the weather closed in a lot earlier than expected yesterday :(

[Charlie Zulu]

Heard about this on the local radio when I awoke this morning.

All sorts of things were going through my thoughts during the drive into work this morning.

I know one of the people who owns a share in G-EMAZ although I have no way of finding out whether he was on board at the time. At the moment I'm really am hoping the news isn't as bad as it first appears on these forums.

My thoughts are with the families.

[spitfire747]

I am friends with the pilot as the aeroplane is based here at Cardiff..


from the irish news

Search and rescue teams looking for a plane which disappeared while travelling from Dublin to Wales yesterday have recovered a body.

They have also found the wreckage of the aircraft off the Pembrokeshire coast.

A couple in their 60s took off in the plane from the Weston Aerodome in Dublin at about midday yesterday.


The light aircraft was on its way to Cardiff when contact was lost.

It was due to arrive at Cardiff just before 3pm when it lost radar contact.

The single engine piper Cherokee had enough fuel for four hours.

The area the couple intended travelling through had poor weather with severe fog.



my thoughts are with their family and friends
another sad day for this industry

[dublinpilot]

News reports this morning, saying a body, and some wreckage have been found off the Welsh coast.

Very sad indeed. :sad:

dp

[TechCons]

I work with one of the pilots sons. He has just informed me this morning that his mothers body has been found in the sea off the Welsh coast. The search is continuing for the body of his father and the aircraft wreckage.

Another very sad day in aviation. My thoughts and condolences are with the family.

[nouseforaname]

I was over the Irish Sea on that afternoon routing between Waterford and Strumble over Slany. The wind was quite a strong easterly, I was IMC over the channel mostly because i remember one of the passengers saying that they never saw the sea.

The cloud was very VERY rough on that day. Sunday was the 26th time in 2005 that i've done that leg and I usually average at least that every year. And that was the roughest crossing i've had.

storm scope was picking up frequent CB activity over Strumble and showers that I went into at FL110 were very rough. Had to slow the airplane right up on 2 occaisions to stop the pax getting v. uncomfortable.

[IO540]

Do you think structural failure is a possibility here?

Short of pilot incapacitation, I can't see why "wreckage" would be found otherwise.

[Arkroyal]

Do you think structural failure is a possibility here? Short of pilot incapacitation, I can't see why "wreckage" would be found otherwise.If you fly an aeroplane into the sea, you get wreckage.

[IO540]

If you FLY an aeroplane INTO the sea, yes.

[Confabulous]

If it hits the sea out of control or if you fly it into the sea, you'll still get wreckage. Water is at least as hard as concrete at >60mph and I very much doubt they tried to ditch, since the visibilty was poor. Even if they did, the lack of ability to judge altitude above water (depending on water state) could have easily caused the a/c to hit the water and fragment.

Structural failure is probably doubtful, unless down to a preexisting fatigue crack etc - it's rare that turbulence gets so bad in the UK/IE, unless you fly into a CB at well above Va (taking into account ultimate loads etc) The only manouver that would cause structural failure (besides aerobatics) over the sea would be a spiral dive.

Anyway let's leave the cause to the experts, although god knows it's tempting to assume.

[unfazed]

Condolences to the family of these unfortunate people

With regard to the seperate thread regarding lack of adequate radio coverage over this stretch of water (comments re London Info freq) - I am sure that this will be something that will be looked at carefully (I would hope so !).

Sounds like weather related but I wonder were they able to raise anybody after crossing the FIR boundary ?

[david viewing]

Regarding comms, I've had no difficulty 'coasting in' with London Information, sometimes at low level like 1500', in the area where this tragedy apparently occurred.

The comments that I and others have contributed about poor radio coverage in the Irish Sea relate to the area off Holyhead, possibly because Snowdon shadows the Clee Hill transmitter.

However, this aircraft was apparently inbound to Cardiff and it can be very difficult to raise Cardiff until very close in when following the S Wales coast at low level, presumably again because of terrain shadowing.

Writing as one who uses this route several times each year, it is heartening that the response from Cardiff and D&D was such that if these poor people had survived in or on the water, they would have been picked up.

Sincere sympathies to all those involved.

[flower]

Yes thanks to an extremely sharp eyed ATSA at Cardiff ATC we started looking for this flight within 20 minutes of it being overdue at Cardiff. Having received the DEP message from Weston the Expected Arrival Time was noted on the Flight Progress Strip, he was on to it so quickly especially due the weather closing in on us in Wales.
As I have written on other forums, so many people were involved in the Search for the crew and aircraft. It is so very sad it didn't have a happy outcome.

[bluebird121]

:sad: I am so sorry to hear that wreckage was found..what a terrible tragedy for the friends amd famillies..my sincere condolences to them all..:sad:

[BoeingMEL]

If this is another tragic case of disorientation/loss of control in IMC by a pilot not trained and able to fly on instruments, it would be difficult to understand how comms contact with ATC could have helped IMHO. Speaking personally I have encountered some of the foulest weather imaginable in this area and do not recall probs with ATC contact ever in the last 30-odd years. Condolences bm

[unfazed]

Just asking the question !

There is often difficulty contacting London info when crossing the Irish sea (that is a fact and I can personally vouch for that )

What difference could a radar service make ? We are getting into the realms of speculation and it seems very innapropriate to do that given the circumstances so I will leave it there for now !

Definitely not pointing any fingers merely pointing out something that may (or indeed may not ) be relevant but which certainly needs to be considered (IMHO)

[niknak]

what difference would a radar service make?

Not wishing to prevaricate about the circumstances of this tragedy, but if you are recieving a radar service from any ATC unit and you don't say anything for a few minutes or your SSR/Primary return disappears from cover, the ATCO will notice straight away and at the very least be able to give a reasonably accurate assessment of your last known position.

Invaluable information for SAR purposes.

[unfazed]

NikNak - Excellent observation

I notice that a previous comment was made stating that 20 minutes may have been the elapsed time before S&R was initiated !

[PPRuNe Radar]

I notice that a previous comment was made stating that 20 minutes may have been the elapsed time before S&R was initiated !

It could be up to an hour after ETA before anything starts to happen on the SAR front, particularly if you are not in contact with any ATC unit.

The 'Uncertainty' phase is initiated if the aircraft has not arrived within 30 minutes of the expected ETA at the destination airfield. This phase then lasts a maximum of 30 minutes, to allow enquiries to be made as to the location and status of the aircraft, at which point the 'Alert' phase starts if no news has been forthcoming. In this phase the SAR assets are mobilised, but not necessarily launched. Then not later than 1 hour after the commencement of the 'Alert' phase (or if the aircrafts fuel is deemed to be exhausted, whichever is sooner), the 'Distress' phase starts and the full SAR mission begins till either the aircraft and survivors are found, or it is no longer deemed there is any chance of doing so.

This is in an ideal case where an ATS unit are at the destination and spot you have not arrived. If it is a private field where you have a nominated person of responsibility to take any alerting action, there could be an even greater delay depending on how they have been briefed to notice you haven't arrived, and how quickly they decide to get in touch with the relevant authorities (assuming they have been told who they are !!).

[unfazed]

Prune Radar - What is your point ?

Lots of interesting facts but why have you posted them ?

The point raised seems to be that if you are in touch with a radar facility the S&R will kick in the minute that your blip dissapears or when you ask for help via mayday etc