Onur Air

[foreverboeing]

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Dear Sir/ Madam,

After an inappropriate action, Onur Air has been subject to a rather unfortunate and unfair treatment by Dutch Air and Sea Transport Authority - Inspectie Verkeer en Waterstaat and our flights to Netherlands are stopped for one month as of yesterday. Onur Air has been holding 50 percent of whole package holiday market in Netherlands as result of its long time satisfactory performance and commercial stability. We have a well-earned reputation in Netherlands as proven by millions of travallers and nearly all Dutch tourism organisations chosen us. The reason of the ban was reported to be the result of a technical problem on one of Onur Air's aircraft last week in Amsterdam, but statistically, it is reported that one airline has a technical delay everyday in Netherlands. In this case dozens of airlines should be stopped operating to Netherlands every month. Unfortunately, German DGCA has followingly stopped our operation to Germany without any event, just as a result of Netherlands's decision. We currently fly to 73 airports in Europe with our 25 aircraft since 14 years now. Our highest achievement awards from Airbus, Boeing and many tour-operators have been acknowledged by all authorities. We believe we have right to be treated equally and fairly with all other airlines in Europe under EASA regulations Yours Sincerely, Hamit Cankut Bagana President Onur Air Turkey


Yours Sincerely,

Hamit Cankut Bagana
President Onur Air
Turkey

note:copied from onur air web page www.onurair.com.tr

[Phoenix_X]

Interesting. They've got a reputation in the Netherlands allright! :E

It certainly wasn't this one incident that caused the ban, regardless of whether it's appropriate or not.

[zed3]

Now I'm going to stir things up ...... do you have a problem with the Netherlands or are they the ones with a problem ? Hard hat on and heading for cover in Limbabwe .

[airhumberside]

Are they still operating flights to the UK?

[Scottie Dog]

They are indeed - or at least they had a flight depart Manchester at around 6pm.

[suppie]

In mean time banned from The Netherlands, Germany , France and Switserland

[Irish Steve]

Still also operating to Dublin, there's been at least 2 this weekend.

[Engineer]

DfT (http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_aviation/documents/page/dft_aviation_026674.hcsp) have not added them to the list yet! :{

[spuis]

The funny thing is that Onur air is now transporting it's dutch passengers to and from belgium.
I would have thought the JAA would ban airlines as a whole, and not just the countries by itself.
The dutch CAA has by the way also banned Phuket air from its airspace recently.

Gr.

Spuis

[ATNotts]

It's in situations such as this where there is an absolute case for joint EU action. How it can be that an airline can be unsafe, in the opinion of respected national regulatory bodies in some EU states, yet not in others defies comprehension. Are the Dutch, German, French and Swiss authorities especially prone to paranoia?

You would have thought that after the Flash Airlines incident things would have moved on a bit.

Also, defying all reason is why, according to Air Berlin.com, and various German press reports, the Turkish authorities feel they can deny German carriers access to Turkey to pick up passengers stranded as a result of the action against Onur Air. Is this the way in which a supposedly civilised, western, country that aspires to EU membership is supposed to operate?

[N380UA]

As ATNotts pointed out, it was a bit over a year ago, Flash Airlines, a 737 crashing in the Red Sea of Sharm el-Sheikh killing all aboard. The Airline had been banned from some (German and Switzerland I believe) but not all European (French) airspace citing safety related issues.

As a result of the crash came a large, heated discussion regarding the sharing of such findings with other authorities within Europe and the world. It was argued that if the information would had been shared, the accident would have never happened. On the other hand, some airlines argued that this could develop as a means of discriminating against them.

IMHO, a European wide ban of Onur Air is therefore in order. I can understand the feelings of Mr. Bagana, but trust me Sir, that’s easier to take that to explain to the world that one of your aircraft crashed because it just was not safe!

[newswatcher]

BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4552435.stm) article

[Krueger]

Onur Air was supposed to fly during all the summer to Portugal, but the flights are canceled. Don't know by whom.

[Capt.KAOS]

Onur Air is now opening a lawsuit against the Dutch Authorities because it couldn't provide "satisfactory information (read positive)" about the ban during an 11 hour meeting between Onur, Dutch and Turkish Authorities.

It was agreed that Dutch inspectors will travel to Instabul to discuss all safety aspects of the Onur a/c's. Onur however left the meeting before it was concluded.

[Pointer]

Just to clarify the info; Dutch CAA and Turkish CAA held meeting and Onur rep. was waiting outside, he wanted an awnser straight away.... was told anwser would be given after meeting was over.... Onur rep left building (Not meeting since he was not in the meeting).

[Diabolo]

Onur Air Eng fire at AYT.
Any news ?

Saw the fire brigades rushing.

Wich AC type ?

Thx

[Freeway]

Why am I sooooooo unsurprised!

[Flap43]

most dodgy carrier in Europe i think! will NEVER travel on them.
couple of years ago while i was working on the ground at MAN they wanted us to pushback the aircraft despite one of the nose wheel tyres that had burst and shredded on landing being almost non existant! Cpt insisted for an hour so we just walked off. no reasoning with him.
eventually airfield ops got involved and forced him to buy a new tyre!
GOOD EH?

+VE, GR UP:ok:

[DownIn3Green]

Hey Flaps...

When did you become the Captain?

[Pilot Pete]

He didn't,

It just sounds like he didn't want to be involved in something so plainly dangerous. Captains aren't immune from bad decision making just because they are captains. If you ask me it sounds like Flap43 used good CRM to possibly prevent a nasty situation from developing. Remember, flight safety is a team effort and sometimes us captains need saving from ourselves.

You don't need to be an airline pilot to know that certain bits missing/ U.S. on an aircraft means it is a no-go. Even the MEL states that obvious items required for despatch, like wings and wheels don't get an entry in the MEL.

I would be questioning the judgement of that captain (whichever airline he flys for).

Flap43, you can inform me of any defect you suspect on the ramp at Manchester and I will gladly listen. Keep up the good work.

PP

[Engineer]

like wings and wheels don't get an entry in the MEL If it is not listed in the MEL you can't fly without it :ok: Hence why no mention of wings :{
When did you become the Captain? It is comments like this that lead to this type (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=167639) of posting.

Certain life would be a lot easier if people engaged brain before commenting :}

[itwilldoatrip]

Well said engineer. Downin3green isnt the aircraft ours on the ground until signed out and RELEASED.

[Pilot Pete]

If it is not listed in the MEL you can't fly without it Hence why no mention of wings Err, yeah. That's what I said didn't I..........?

PP

[as737700]

Not surprise!

One of my moms friends works for Onur Air, and even she said that she will never fly on onur air. If you get this from an employee, you know the airline is bad!!!:confused:

[BleriotXI]

I flew with Onur twice, from Niederhein to Antalya and back. The flight to Antalya was uneventful, apart from the landing which made me think of the joke where the old lady asked the captain "did we land or were we shot down?"
The return flight was horrible, but nothing to do with technical issues (as far as I know). It started off with a 4 hour delay (all departures from Antalya were delayed), resulting in a divert to Cologne (Köln) because Niederhein closed before we could land there. From there it was a 2-hour busride back to Niederhein, and then from there some 2 1/2 hours to get home. The entire trip took longer than my trips from Amsterdam to Curacao!

Anyway, we flew with the A321 and I've heard Onur actually got commended by Airbus for their good condition.

[unplugged]

Onur Air is not as bad as the media puts them!
There a321 fleet is fairly well maintenanced with proper documentation and there scedule is on time as every other airline can say.
There big probleme is the a300 B4 - too old and worn out! But rumours say that it will be history by the year end and be replaced by an a300-600.
What happened to Onur in Holland etc was of course not totally fantisy but a hudge amount of politics were envolved comming from Örger.
Onur is a fast growing company and others want a piece of the cake.
I don´t want to say that everything is great but there are two sides.

[Ibis]

Hey, RTO, do you know anything about the work that goes on in an A320 /A321 cockpit?
1. The aircraft is flown by autopilot / autothrust.
2. What were the weather conditions under which you flew? I would bet that it was not the best hence the autopilot/ autothrust would be constantly compensating for turbulence and gusts.
3. Before you run around labelling people "spastic monkeys" maybe you should first get a knowledge of what happens in the cockpit of and aircraft, and especially under difficult weather conditions.
Anyone can be a smart :mad: , but not everyone can be a pilot bringing passengers safely from point A to B.
Before you decide to run your mouth again get the FACTS not just JUCY GOSSIP. :hmm:
Guys like you make me :mad: :mad: :mad: ;)
Yes there are bad pilots in this business but don't just go wrongfully labelling people because the company they work for is in the news now. Also remember not everything you read or hear in the news is correct. :ok:

[captplaystation]

Remember coming through security in BRU one day and coming face to face with the best looking CC's I had/have ever seen,beach-babes every last one of them and s u u uch short skirts(free seating would be a riot literally with row1 up for grabs).Of course we bloody asked,wouldn't you?and were a little surprised to hear it was Onur Air,which was a recent newcomer on the BRU apron.I'm told that other slightly dodgy looking bunch(Fly Air?) have some nice eye-candy in the MD80 galleys,hope Onur maintained the high standards in that Dept at least!

[Cheers Buddy]

Calm Down LA! Just Calm Down!

[unplugged]

RTO
you seem to have a personal probleme with Turkey or Onur or whatever.

[BleriotXI]

Just on the news: Two Onur aircraft (didn't say what type) in trouble, one departed the runway during roll-out after landing in the rain at Istanbul, and the other got stranded in Izmir with engine problems... really, will they ever get a break?

[DownIn3Green]

RTO,

I flew as a contract Capt for Istanbul Airlines from 3/93 to 10/94 and I disagree with you about Turkey being the RTO end of Aviation...

I was never questioned about my decisions regarding the safety of the aircraft, and I found the Turks wonderful people to work with and live amongst...

[BAforever]

Onur Air pilot refuses to fly A321 to Bristol!

The experienced German captain came out of the flight deck and announced to the passengers that he refused to fly the plane on saftey grounds. This was said to cause a mini riot with Onur Air Manegment telling passengers it was safe to fly.
10% of passengers refused to fly and others only did as there was 'no other alternative to get home' This comes as Onur air is alredy banned fro flying to France, Germay and the Dutch authorities have alredy banned Onur Air so will the UK?

BAforever, you need to quote your sources on this one. Otherwise, this post will end up in Spotters forum along with your last flight-of-fancy contribution.
Thank you
Hawk

[Bad Robot]

So far this is all hearsay. Any links to back up these stories as I'm sure the media would pounce on all this given half a chance.

BR.

[A300BOY]

I fly the A300 B4 for an operator around europe, they are around 30 years old and other than having quite old nav equipment ,which works very well, in some of the aircraft they are very well looked after and I feel very safe in one. The maintenance is the key to any airlines operation both new and older aircraft.:)

[Globaliser]

Onur Air pilot refuses to fly A321 to Bristol!
...
BAforever, you need to quote your sources on this one. Otherwise, this post will end up in Spotters forum along with your last flight-of-fancy contribution. ...So far this is all hearsay. Any links to back up these stories as I'm sure the media would pounce on all this given half a chance.Try this R&N thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=244055) - seems to be the same incident?

[goldeneye]

Pilot announces to passenger not safe and i quit. See
Daily Record (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=17805453&method=full&siteid=66633&headline=this-is-your-captain-speaking--the-plane-isn-t-safe---i-resign-name_page.html) and The Scotsman (http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1405742006) for stories about this.

[Scottie Dog]

goldeneye

There has been a thread on this subject running for the last week on Rumours and News. See:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=244055

Scottie Dog

[transwede]

Reading on another forum that Onur Airs international flights are to be taken over by freight carrier ACT Airlines when they have permission to commence pax flights. They will use Onur's current fleet of A320/321 aircraft with OHY retaining the MD's to continue domestic services. No mention of the A300 fleet. Apparantly it is to get rid of the negative image that has surrounded OHY in the past few years.

Anyone know anymore on this?

Will ACT take over the many charter flights to the UK that Onur operate? NCL alone has 8 flights per week this summer, many of which use the widebody A300?!

[Michi]

Dear All,

I am a foreigner flying on the A320 family for Onurair. I've noticed they aquired an ISO, an TÜV and several Airbus awards regarding maintenance and operation. Also they've won at court from the Dutch CAA regarding the SAFA inspections.

All of the captains have 1000-ends of hours on type, the only problem might be the English standard, which has been 'upgraded' as we speak. Also the amount of foreigners (JAA licensensed CM1 & 2) contributes to the European standard required.

No unsafe flights on the 320 fleet!

[conradmueller]

In CGN there was an Ermergency recently with TC-ONT:
See here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1hyzrIZcpQ

[MaxBlow]

transwede,

ACT is owned by the same guy Mr. C.B. at least he´s the major shareholder as I understand.

Onur ? :ugh:

[WCBIFF]

Hi All.
I'm considering Onurair on a contract out of Jeddah.
Does anyone have any information, or can you point me in a direction to pick up some information?

Cheers,
WCB

[HXdave]

uk tour ops that use Onur Air are mainly Goldtrail/Sunmar holidays & Holidays4U. i did travel with them about 3 years back and to be honest they got me from point A to point B as requested. nothing fancy, but as far as i see it, you get what you pay for.

if you want a more reliable flight operator, with IFE, UK cabin crew who's first language is english and decent food, book with one of the main UK charter companies, however my guess is that you will pay more, possibly considerably more...............

[caaardiff]

Goldtrail are the main charterer for Onur i believe. Not sure who Holidays4u use these days.
Onur Air have been up against strong competition for the Goldtrail contract in the past few years, mainly from SAGA and this year from Turkuaz Airlines.
At Cardiff, Onur Airs on time performance has improved massively in recent years, so i assume this is across the board.

[honest man]

Holidays4U using Onur at Prestwick

[transwede]

Goldtrail still use OHY from NCL, as do Holidays4U, however not as much as in previous seasons, with Turkuaz, Saga and now Sky Airlines being utilised. Companies will tender out their business in charter land regularly and money is huge factor when contracts are awarded. You only need to look at the likes of Thomson Holidays and Thomas Cook Tour Operations, where in recent years their flying has been brought mostly in house, as opposed to using the llikes of Air Europa, Spanair etc.

[leisurelad]

Flew with them from Cardiff to Dalaman just over a year ago, couldn't fault them, on time both ways and even early coming back.
On board service was basic but crew friendly and did what it said on the tin.
Interior was clean and modern and have no hesitation in using them again.

[akerosid]

An A321, en route from Antalya to DUB was out of communications for FORTY minutes over central Europe yesterday (from Prague to the Netherlands) and communications were only restored when the Dutch AF sent up two F-16s to ask them if they wouldn't mind getting back in touch.

It's hard to believe that any crew can fly over busy European airspace for forty minutes and not notice a lack of communication!

Incident: Onur Air A321 from Prague to Netherlands on Jun 20th 2010, loss of communication for 40 minutes (http://www.avherald.com/h?article=42d33ba8&opt=1)

[mathers_wales_uk]

Im sure there used to be 5 or 6 weekly flights from Cardiff with Onur Air which had Dalaman, Bodrum and Antalya and a range of aircraft from the MD to the A300

This has been reduced hugely with only 1 weekly flight on a sunday evening operating on the A321.

It does look as if SAGA and Turkuaz are the preffered airline of choice at the moment with Godtrail and holidays4u however with Turkuaz weekly going to 2 x weekly at the end of June and SAGA to begin operaitng 2 x weekly to Turkey from beginning of July.

[Ian Brooks]

Manchester on a Friday morning is Turkish day with something like 7 or 8 flights
by Turkish Airlines (Onur, Saga, Turkuaz and Sky before lunch) and I think a couple more are due to start next week


Ian B

[transwede]

With Turkey still not being part of the Euro, it is fast becoming a much more financially viable option for european holidaymakers....just loom at capacity increases made by Thomas Cook and TUI, in addition to independant operators. OHY, TRK and SHY all operate from NCL, have a pretty much decent ontime record and no serious passenger complaints. Goldtrail, H4U etc will charter who has aircraft available at the best price.

On the subject of OHY, I think they have managed to shake off the damaged image they had a few years back, indeed they needed to if they were to survive?! New aircraft (A330 coming soon?) will help them build a solid name in the charter and scheduled business. Indeed if Turkey continues to attract visitors, a bigger capacity aircraft could be exactly what is required, they always seemed to find work for their all Y config A300's!

[dublindispatch]

Ref the comments on the 8Q flight to Dublin. The airline is as charter airlines are, cheap and gets you there. They do not seem to be too bad now that they operate 321's into DUB. The IAA did do several spot checks on the A300's when they operated into DUB. Now they really were a bag of rust held together with paint and good luck.

But to be honest to many nagging things happen each turnaround to be 100% happy with them.

[john2408]

2 flights with Goldtrail from HUY starting July, have changed from Onur to Saga.

[dublindispatch]

Not really surprised

[EuroWings]

Does anyone know what routes OHY are planning to use their newly aquired A330s on? Would be nice to see them on some of their busy UK charter routes. The A300s could be filled and they were intresting visitors!

Have had no problems with Onur Air in the past. It's a charter so expect little legroom and no meals. Goldtrail do seem to be chartering Turkuaz Airlines, SAGA and Sky Airlines more this year though. Used Turkuaz Airlines from MAN this year and had no problems, on time and the crew were friendly.

[deltahotel9]

Its not that obvious or people wouldn't need to ask, perhaps you know more than other but a little explanation would be nice.

[HighToLow]

Hi,

Does anyone have any contact info for a job application? the e-mail adress on PPJN returns all my e-mails.

thanks in advance

/A

[poweredwings777]

some of my friends flow for them for a couple of time and the problem is not all pilots but the problem is the company and some turkish pilots who do not have any understanding of management and do not even write English words in a right way.

But good pilots are leaving the airline and their own managers can fly the rest.

The company is treationg pilots like foodball and they do not care about their suggestions and improvement that pilots bring in.

They think that because they are turks they know everything and understand everything.

But again not all are like this, only some of them included the management:=