Light aircraft drug smuggling

[Genghis the Engineer]

I'm spending my Friday catching up on some reading, which includes the August AAIB Bulletin. I've particularly noticed the report into a PA28-161 which crashed killing the pilot on Feb 8 2005 near Horsmonden in Kent on a return trip from Belgium.

The report is well written, and sums up to "competent PPL, but got out of his depth, CFIT in low cloud". A thorough bit of reporting by AAIB, which is worth reading.

Then I noticed that at the end of the "history of the flight" is the line...

"Found amongst the contents of the aircraft were large quantities of Class C drugs and Tobacco".



So our man was doing some private enterprise in a rented club light aircraft. AAIB note that he seems to have planned to make a short stop on the way home at a farmstrip before continuing to clear Customs at Shoreham. What a surprise!

I wonder to what extent the unofficial cargo was a factor in his failure to make a diversion, and also whether there's anything in the public domain about what I'm sure was a police investigation, even if no mention of this is made in the AAIB report. AAIB have sort of alluded to this by referring in the conclusions to "His apparent desperate desire to land at Old Hay contributed to his poor decision making processes in the later stages of this flight".

I'm just being nosey, but interesting 'innit! Maybe just for once, I'm a little less sympathetic than I could be to the victim of a light aircraft accident.

G

[WorkingHard]

Genghis I am in agreement with your last sentence. It is surely incumbent upon all of us, private or commercial, to report all cases of suspected drug running.

[englishal]

Depends what the drugs were.

Maybe he was a pharmacist and could buy them cheaper on the continent than in the UK......

Maybe the tobacco was for personal consumption.

Maybe without elaborating, the AAIB should not have mentioned this in the report.

Just my point of view ;)

[helicopter-redeye]

Class C drugs isda ganjga.

However, do customs actually check anything? This is a wide open door in national security for bringing ANYTHING in.

Or for that matter, taking it out ....

:zzz: :ooh:

[TheOddOne]

eglishal,

Personally, I believe that it WAS appropriate for the AAIB to mention the contents of the aircraft, as a possible contributing factor to the circumstances surrounding this tragic accident. It's up to the rest of us to draw any conclusions from the facts laid before us.

We can only guess at the forces which motivated this pilot to act in whatever way they did. 'Apparent desperate desire' may well cover some personal circumstances that the rest of us can be thankful not to encounter.

Genghis, imagine the scenario where someone was desperate for the cash to pay for a life-saving operation for their son or daughter - not saying this was the case, but it would maybe modify the lack of sympathy.

All of those of us responsible for the hiring and operating of group or club aircraft owe it to ourselves, our other members and the light aircraft community at large to make sure our aircraft aren't used for illegal purposes. If nothing else, don't give our insurers the excuse to refuse to pay out!!!

No, I haven't seen anything about a Police investigation. It's possible that in view of the circumstances, that they won't be persuing the case.

Cheers,
The Odd One

[CKnopfell]

Has anyone here ever been challenged on arrival.

I have been on numerous private flights to/from France, Holland and Ireland and have never had the contents of my baggage, my passport, or my pilots licence checked.

[Maxflyer]

Having read the report I was more interested in the fact that GPS data was heavily relied on in ascertaining detals of the flight. Strikes me there is a touch of hypocrisy up on high.

[englishal]

I think that by mentioning "Class C" drugs they should have elaborated.

True, ganga is Class C. So are certain tranquillisers such as temazepam and valium, which licensed pharmacists can supply. You can also possess them legally if you have a valid prescription.

Now if the report had said "A quantity of cannabis" then it would be a different matter.....I just think that reports like this should be accurate and concise, rather than wishy washy and vague.

[Confabulous]

Class C drugs are pretty much of equal effectiveness (barring a few exceptions), so it's a bit strange that it should be even mentioned. The point that he was so desperate to get to a specific airfield in IFR conditions that he had a CFIT ties in with delivering a load of ganja, but then that's not really fair either - as English Al says, it could've easily been Valium.

Maybe the AAIB are telling us to draw our own conclusions? I suppose in the end it doesn't matter, the pilot's dead and the ganja/Valium/baribituates are smoked (pun intended).

I suppose if you're transporting goods for profit (not stated I know) you'd need a CPL - maybe that's another angle.

[High Wing Drifter]

However, do customs actually check anything? This is a wide open door in national security for bringing ANYTHING in.
Would ATC ignore an a/c entering the FIR and not flying direct to a customs field?

[Mike Cross]

Has anyone here ever been challenged on arrival.
Had you been at Popham last weekend you could have witnessed pilots various at the PPRuNe fly-in having their collars felt by the local constabulary in hi-viz. Names addresses registrations and ownership details were taken. It was all very friendly and low key but pilots were being reminded of their obligations under the Terrorsim Act and advised that Hampshire Police were prosecuting people for failing to do what they should have.

As for me I just pretended I wasn't with Bletchleytugie:rolleyes:

[JW411]

Having read the report I have to say that the mention of the discovery of Class C drugs in the wreckage by the AAIB was remarkably restrained and "just about right".

Would any of you out there not agree that, had he flown from Belgium via Dover to Shoreham direct, then he would not be alive and kicking today?

Why did he take off from an airfield which was closed? Why did he manage to ignore a request to sign in and sign out with his details? Why did he fail to activate his flight plan on the radio? Why was he so hell-bent on landing at a strip which was nowhere near his direct routing and at which an attempted landing in fog was extremely dangerous and, in this case, fatal. (No Cat IIIa at Old Hay nor in his PA28).

Of course we are expected to make the connection between his cargo and his accident. That one sentence in the AAIB report says it all.

If one single one of you out there (who might belong to the naive way of thinking) can give me another logical reason as to why this chap was prepared to die trying to do the impossible rather than continue to his supposed destination and make a safe landing then I would love to hear it.

PS. A chap I once worked with tried to do a similar trick with a 707 at Southend and is now a guest of HM for about 20 years.

PPS. Has anyone else made the connection between "Old Hay" and "marijuana"?

[IO540]

Special Branch have told me that they had been waiting specially for the man, at Shoreham as per his flight plan, following a tip-off.

This sort of thing is dreadful news for GA.

The only positive thing about this is that he was flying a G-reg aircraft and not some other reg.

[JW411]

Furthermore, I was told that Special Branch had already removed his car from the car park at Shoreham for forensic testing.

[IO540]

Would any of you out there not agree that, had he flown from Belgium via Dover to Shoreham direct, then he would not be alive and kicking today?

Evidently he was not able to fly on instruments - if he had been able to, he would not have crashed until flying an IAP somewhere, or fuel exhaustion.

What was the Shoreham weather at the time? I am sure one can get historical METARs somewhere...

[helicopter-redeye]

Would ATC ignore an a/c entering the FIR and not flying direct to a customs field?


The only place in the UK I have ever seen any police/ special branch/ security activity (on GA turf) is Oban, where PC MacBeth and his 2 special branch colleagues appear to follow you about as you have lunch in the wee toon.

As to entering the FIR and not routing direct, would London Info even see them ???

This is an insecure country compared to many (the French will check your passports & quite right too)

h-r:)

[Taildragger55]

Allegedly in the bad old days when Ireland really was run by the Pope, it was not uncommon for small aircraft to land here from foreign, Godless places, laden with illicit condoms.
Before my time of course:-)

[BEagle]

You might well not have seen SB or even C&E activity - but that doesn't mean that it doesn't go on.

A while ago, Plod asked me to drop by. It seems that C&E had noted an a/c with a stated destination actually going elsewhere, then disappearing off radar. This seemed, as they say, worth a pull......

What had happened was that they thought the pilot had said that the a/c was going to 'Woodford' - and were then surprised to see it head off across Northamptonshire only to vanish near Wittering.

The mystery was solved when I told them that I knew the pilot's destination - it was the disused aerodrome 'Woolfax (Lodge)' where the pilot had permission to leave the a/c from the landowner! Plod and C&E both happy bunnies.

I guess the reason for the interest was that this was the era of 'raves' - and not long afterwards they made a large seizure and a number of arrests at a local aerodrome where a drug-peddling low-life was importing his filth into the UK from Europe. Got the ba$tard - well done team!

[DaveW]

Would ATC ignore an a/c entering the FIR and not flying direct to a customs field?

There is, in fact, no requirement to enter the UK at a Customs field. If it isn't a Customs field, all the law abiding are required to do is to provide Customs and Immigration with 4 hours notice of arrival at their destination - and that could be (and often is, quite legitimately) a farm strip.

ATC, of course, have no knowledge of whether the appropriate form has been submitted to the Customs colleagues. Indeed, they may not even be 'controlling' a GA flight in the open FIR.

However, as noted by other posters, lowlifes are caught by other means - often intelligence and investigation, but sometimes weather...


As for: Having read the report I was more interested in the fact that GPS data was heavily relied on in ascertaining detals of the flight. Strikes me there is a touch of hypocrisy up on high. - would you prefer the accident investigators ignore anything that might be available and help them in the investigation? I wouldn't.

[Genghis the Engineer]

There is more than one "Power that Be", and they don't necessarily all think the same.

Whilst some parts of CAA may have reservations about GPS, AAIB (a totally separate organisation) love it, and are masters of the art of telling where you've been from the remnants of a smashed handheld GPS. I did a course there once where we were taught how to do our best to ensure that such a unit was handled so as to give their boffins the best chance of reading it.

G

[Johnm]

It is important to note that there is no right to land at a non designated port of entry. The police, immigration and special branch very sensibly allow it to avoid a zillion light aircraft turning up at Bournemouth and Liverpool etc. every sunday afternoon.

We are all wise to take this privilege seriously and be good boys and girls in following procedure with Gendec etc. as well as reporting the scrotes who abuse it if we get to know about them.

I have been ramp checked a number of times in the past, but not recently and I take this to imply that my regular patterns of travel are now known to the powers that be and that they've satisfied themselves that I'm an upright cirizen. But anything out of the ordinary I'd expect a visit.

[UL730]

I wonder to what extent the unofficial cargo was a factor in his failure to make a diversion

Class C drugs include cannabis, anabolic steroids, benzodiazepin and some amphetamines – not the sort of materials that appear on the average GA cargo manifest.

To carry such materials illegally could result in a two-year prison sentence. The sentence for supply or intent to supply is a maximum of 14 years imprisonment plus a fine. This could have created a powerful variation of the “get-on-home-itis” syndrome.

Lot of self induced pressure in that cockpit.

Some folk must think SB and Customs were born yesterday.

No sympathy.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I can't help feel that fining them on top of a 14 year prison sentence seems like just adding insult to injury!

G

[JW411]

IO540:

There is no need to dig out the record of the Shoreham weather on the day for it is clearly shown in the accident report. I presume therefore that you haven't read it?

The TAF covering the period of the flight was:

080847Z 0800816 VRB03 2000 BR SCT050 TEMPO 0810 0800 FG BKN010 BCMG 1113 7000 NSW

[IO540]

I haven't read it - didn't say I had read it. That's why I asked.

What were the METARs?

That TAF could be just about anything in actual, although it alone certainly isn't weather suitable for planning a VFR arrival.

Irrespective of the actual at Shoreham, someone planning a VFR arrival there on that TAF would have been prepared to draw attention. A good reason to unload somewhere else first?

As for the police activity around airfields, they DO watch a lot of stuff. According to them, there are about 80 fixed wing landing sites of various sorts just in Sussex and Kent.

[BEagle]

"I can't help feel that fining them on top of a 14 year prison sentence seems like just adding insult to injury!"

Well, I dont'! I think it's far too lenient. They should be boiled alive in a vat of their own excrement until dead instead of cluttering up the prison system.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Sounds a bit OTT BEagle ... until, that is, you do the sums, and work out how many burglaries per night it takes to keep just one drug dealer in business. And I don't just mean the type of burglary that happens when you're out, and you come home to find everything smashed and strewn around and **** on the carpet, some of these burglaries involve smashing down the door when the kids are asleep in the house.

And normally when doing these sums one is assuming that the dealer is just buying a new BMW every few months, presumably it takes even more burglaries if they've got a plane as well.

[Pianorak]

However, do customs actually check anything?
Had you been at WW yesterday you would have had the pleasure of meeting members of HM Customs. No sooner had I touched down (returning from Le Touquet) when my aircraft and contents of flightbag were inspected quite thoroughly. All very polite and relaxed. Was also asked if I’d mind reporting anything suspicious or out of the ordinary to the authorities. Actually, I found the procedure quite reassuring. ;)

[RatherBeFlying]

It's been happening quite a while on the Yank's southern border and Canada gets its share of unusual arrivals.

US Customs has quite the airforce of seized a/c -- the ones that did not crash:E

Other seized a/c are auctioned off. Such a/c are not recommended for cross-border travel as the sniffer dogs will flag your "new" a/c for a thorough inspection along with everybody and everything aboard:uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh:

[IO540]

JW411

There is no need to dig out the record of the Shoreham weather on the day for it is clearly shown in the accident report. I presume therefore that you haven't read it?

The report PDF I've just read is at

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources/Piper%20PA-28-161%20Cherokee%20Warrior%20II,%20G-BHIL%208-05.pdf

and it doesn't say anything about Shoreham actual. It contains actuals for Ostend, Manston and Biggin, plus the Shoreham TAF you quoted.

Nevertheless, they appear convinced he had a pretty good reason (other than weather) to land some other place than Shoreham, first.

[Final 3 Greens]

BEagleThey should be boiled alive in a vat of their own excrement until dead instead of cluttering up the prison system. I disagree. If they are happy to sell their product, then they should be obliged to try large quantities of it.

[niknak]

If I were a smuggling drugs, the last thing I'd do would be to do it using a light aircraft.

The UK is such a relatively small place, that anything out of the ordinary is usually noticed by someone somewhere, and invariably Mr Plod gets to know pretty quickly.

Addtionally, the intelligence network in this particular area is a lot better informed than the vast majority of people think or realise, and whilst, due the nature of getting evidence, it may take time to get results, customs and the plod are very successful.

Take a moment to reflect upon whom, at your particular airfield, you know to be a bit of a wide boy or have shady connections, I can think of several people I've encountered over the years who fit this scenario. Well, if you know or think that about them, so will someone else, as invariably, will the police.

[JW411]

IO540:

Whilst METARS are nice to have, they are (by definition) history.

For flight planning purposes it's the TAFs we should be looking at. The accident happened at about 1046Z. He therefore could not possibly have got to Shoreham in a PA28 before 1115Z which puts him into the:

BCMG 1113 7000 NSW.

Now 7km with No Significant Weather should have been well within his capabilities I would have thought.

The AAIB obviously considered the Shoreham METARS to have been irrelevent to the investigation.

They were obviously also irrelevent to the subject pilot for there is no record of him having asked for the Shoreham actuals and he was too far away and too low to pick up the ATIS.

[Flyin'Dutch']

For flight planning purposes it's the TAFs we should be looking at.

Tis true, but we fly in actual not forcast weather. Hence the need to know what the METARs are too.

It is a bit alarming to read that some of the righteous folks on here seem to think that it is 'a good thing' that someone pays for his transgression of the law with the death penalty whereas under the laws of this country a fine and custodial sentence would have been applied were the assumptions made on here correct and this case would have been heard in court.

[JW411]

A METAR is a statement as to what the weather actually WAS at a given time. Therefore, by definition, if you go flying 30 seconds later you are talking history.

Now a TAF is what is likely to happen including the conditionals like PROB30/TEMPO/BCMG etc etc.

Now I fly for a living and I also fly for fun. At work there is seldom if ever going to be a time when I am NOT going to depart. Therefore, if I am flying from Los Angeles to London I am not very interested in the METAR but I am VERY interested in the TAF in something like 10 hours time. I cannot wait until the METAR equals the TAF otherwise I would never depart.

In the case in point, I suspect that our man had planned to get airborne so that he did whatever he wanted to do and then arrived during the early part of the 7000 NSW bit.

Now if you are just flying for fun and you don't have a schedule to meet then you can afford yourself the luxury of waiting until the skies are clear. On the other hand, you might never get off the ground!

[Flyin'Dutch']

JW,

I am not exactly sure what point you are trying to make.

The guy succumbed due to CFIT as the actual weather (as generally accepted is reported in METARS) was not as good as the TAF was suggesting.

[IO540]

JW411

We must have our wires completely crossed here.

Destination (and en-route) METARs are very valuable in the GA context. Not in your airliner context because your flight takes you say 10 hours and also with Cat 3 or whatever capability, plus anti-ice, plus the TAS to raise the airframe to a temperature equivalent to 10k-20k feet below where you really are, etc, there are very few times that weather will stop you. Whereas most PPL-level GA flights cover very short distances (typically under 100 miles) and the PPL license constraints (not to mention the constraints of the aircraft typically involved) are so severe that even a slight difference between a METAR and a TAF is enough to make the arrival (and probably the flight too) technically illegal.

Often the actual is a lot worse than the TAF for the relevant period. So, would you depart on a 1hr flight when the METAR says OVC005 when the TAF says SCT015 so clearly the met office got it wrong?

I remember once asking an instructor: if you were doing an NDB approach, and you had a GPS also, and the ADF was telling you that you will live and the GPS was telling you that you will die, which would you trust? His reply was that he would trust the ADF. He was a gold plated JAA ATPL, in case anyone wonders. A complete moron IMHO.

None of the above is intended to apply to the AAIB report. To me, it looks like the man was most keen to make a covert landing at the farm strip to unload the cargo and then proceed to Shoreham for the official landing. I doubt that weather considerations came into his decision making very much and if they did then he got it wrong. Lots of pilots get it wrong; I hear the resulting conversations on the radio fairly frequently.

[Flash0710]

Gengis.





AAIB (a totally separate organisation) love it, and are masters of the art of telling where you've been from the remnants of a smashed handheld GPS.

From the report it seems they also can tap your phone........

Un related. According to the report this chap appears to have acted in a dodgy manner throughout his whole trip.

After a weekend personally operating in a health and safety hell airport with hiz viz vests being a major concern of theirs, why is no one concerned when a visiting pilot omits to log his details?

Forget condeming him for bringing a bit of rope in. Let people learn that its not a good idea from this purely as his cumulative actions have caused his demise.



Stay SAFE


F.

[High Wing Drifter]

IO540,
if you were doing an NDB approach, and you had a GPS also, and the ADF was telling you that you will live and the GPS was telling you that you will die, which would you trust?
Just a wee tangent to keep us entertained :) I guess the answer very much depends, does it not? You can't really compare a belt and braces 430/530 type GPS system to a cheap and cheerful Skymap. I don't think it is fair to say that an NDB would be less accurate than the aforementioned Skymap, certainly not in my , admittedly limited, experience with the Skymap GPS! Another problem with GPS is there is no way of quantifying the error, if it is wrong there is nothing to suggest that it could be wrong(unless you are transported to a completely different part of the country/world). Probably a tennuous argument, but you can pretty much guess when the ADF maybe telling porkies.

Prehaps I've been tainted by my experience of GPS telling me where I knew I was not in my formative hours :(

[IO540]

HWD

I always like to keep you entertained :O

Any GPS, even the cheapest one from a camp shop, will be FAR more accurate than an NDB, 99.99% of the time.

As for the other 0.01%, as Clint Eastwood said, "do you feel lucky"? A better policy, I would say, is to divert somewhere where there is a proper approach with built-in fault detection i.e. an ILS.

I have a Skymap 2 also. Used it for primary nav for the 50hrs post-PPL before I got into a plane with a panel mounted KLN94/KMD550. The only time I had a problem with it was about 20 secs somewhere in Kent; probably got zapped by something. It is an excellent product, despite being 1970s technology and with Jeppesen data which really needs a much higher res colour display. I lost the KLN94 once too, for a minute or two, almost certainly due to GPS jamming.

IMHO you are technically wrong about the likehood of spotting a failure. With a GPS, it's true that it could show you way off and because one is used to it being right one might not spot that. But any GPS of modern design will not do that without putting up a message to say it isn't receiving a proper signal. (I always found the Skymap 2 to do that, too).

Whereas an ADF gives no indication whatever that it is receiving a good signal, bad signal, any signal at all, a signal from an NDB or some thunderstorm 30 miles away, or is even switched on... I routinely fly one IAP on which the ADF error varies from zero to 30 degrees between 6D and 3D. It's a total joke really.

NDBs are accurate, probably as accurate as a VOR if on the cardinal headings, over large areas of flat country, if there is no weather about.

(I design electronics for a living)

[High Wing Drifter]

IO540,
(I design electronics for a living)
Aha! Well, we both distrust our respective disciplines (I design software) :D

Seriously, its very interesting. I've seen ADFs become inaccurate in realtionto to storms, but then I knew the storms were around so I was suspicious. I take your point about the signal, not something I really considered. Just out of interest, does the corresponding AIP entry mention the ADF error? 30 deg is rather gross!! I guess the skill is in maintaining enough SA to be suspicious of problems and not blindly accepting what you are told by the equipment from one moment to the next.

[JW411]

IO540:

Yes, I think we have got our wires crossed. I am not saying that METARS are unimportant. I also own a light aircraft and pay a lot of attention also to METARS but they are NOT the last thing in accuracy. I have often picked up a METAR for Shoreham giving CAVOK conditions and ten minutes later the airfield has been covered in sea fog and everyone is suddenly off to Goodwood and the Isle of Wight!

The sea fog information would hopefully be contained within the TAF and not necessarily within the period of the METAR.

What I was trying to say (obviously not very well) is that, in this case, our man was not setting off for a short local flight. He was embarking upon a flight of more than two hours from Belgium to Shoreham. My guess is that he was looking at the TAF and basing his departure time upon it, no doubt hoping to make his intermediate stop before the weather got too good.

Unfortunately he didn't have a TAF for Old Hay and the weather there was much worse. His lack of experience in the art of instrument flying took care of the rest.

[egbt]

HWD

I don't know about the AIP (don't have ADF so not that concerned) but NDB signal accuracy is certainly addressed in the PPL manuals and lists storms, night effect (actually worse at dawn and dusk), mountains, coasts and general interference. Although its very unlikely, in good propagation conditions and particularly with night effect you could conceivably receive signals from two NDB’s at the same time which would really screw things up.

(Ex Electronic Engineer, Ex Software designer, don't trust either!) :ok:

On the other sub-thread I’m (almost) with BEagle on this one and have no compassion for this guy.

[IO540]

NDB inaccuracy is mentioned in training but very few people know, prior to doing certain instrument approaches, what a complete joke the system really can be.

A 30 degree error in coastal situations is pretty common.

The only time an NDB/ADF can be relied on is when passing directly overhead (the needly swings rapidly from 360 to 180) which presumably is why they are used as locators on e.g. ILS approaches.

The worst thing is that there isn't really anything that can be done to detect, never mind correct, NDB errors. One can improve accuracy by using bigger aerials but nothing at the receiver can possibly correct for the propagation path getting bent in between the transmitter and the aircraft.

Whereas with a GPS there is a multitude of things one can do to ensure good reception and, if it cannot be achieved, detect and report it. It is possible for the military to jam civilian GPS in a manner which cannot be detected by civilian receivers but it's very complex.

[High Wing Drifter]

egbt, IO540,

Granted, at night with NDBs all bets are off. The NDB DOCs in the AIP are only for day use anyway. My point, and I accept defeat BTW :), is that because NDB errors are so well understood, they are predictable...in theory at least. But I appreciate people like IO540 with their extensive experience setting the matter straight.

[IO540]

HWD

I wouldn't call it extensive experience; you only have to fly some NDB IAP on a coastal airport in VMC, preferably with another person keeping a lookout, and you will see how it sends you all over the place.

There should not be additional error at night. They are supposed to occur at dusk or dawn, but I can't think of any special effect in the middle of the night. Especially on the DOC of the NDB. If anything, I'd say that the NDB will be more accurate when further out; the worst errors I've seen are just a few miles away. I routinely track NDBs (or anything else I can get, as a backup to the GPS which is always primary nav) from 50-100 miles away and they are very accurate (on cardinal headings, which is normally the case with en-route ones).

The most amazing thing about NDBs is just how bad they can be without this being officially acknowledged. All part of the WW1 anti-GPS position that one finds in GA.

[JW411]

NDBs are on the way out in a big way. A lot of the the major airfields have already removed their locator beacons and, what used to be the good old co-located outer marker, has now been replaced with "4DME".

The first major airfield in UK to remove the LOCs was Stansted. We were all told that NDBs were not needed any more.

However, such was the measure of the objections from the pilots that the CAA finally relented and installed one NDB on the airfield. It is always good to see how fast the needle is travelling before capturing the Localiser.

I suppose some of you out there remember that when the needle has got 10 degrees to go, it is time to get on the LOC?

[High Wing Drifter]

IO540,
I wouldn't call it extensive experience; you only have to fly some NDB IAP on a coastal airport in VMC, preferably with another person keeping a lookout, and you will see how it sends you all over the place.
Shoreham perchance?