View Full Version : Mbz

1st Sep 2005, 01:18
Plane delayed as controller sleeps in
By Saffron Howden
September 01, 2005


Doesn't the red rat operate in MBZs?

Uncommon Sense
1st Sep 2005, 01:30
I suppose this could just as easily have said 'Controller caught in Traffic" or "Controller was sick".

But I expect the usual suspects to have a go here shortly.

What I am really interested to know from the PR Machine is what a 'Senior Controller' is? And I would also like to know did they really mean they will have 2 controllers in the tower at all times? That will come as a great surprise to the many single person operations throughout Australia! Oh well, never let the facts get in the way of some good spin!

1st Sep 2005, 02:06
Either way it is appalling that our systems have been brought to the point where one person becoming unavailable for whatever reason brings the whole thing to a halt. :sad:

Maybe our wealthy self apppointed "airspace expert" and aviation enthusiast could sponsor a few extras. It was after all his idea to corporatise and shut down the MBZs.

1st Sep 2005, 02:50
Not allowed to operate scheduled services in YSCB until tower opened. I flew in the other day, and we had to lose 15 minutes enroute to get there by the time they had their first cuppa!

Time Bomb Ted
1st Sep 2005, 04:10
Is AsA going to riemburse QF for the 15 mins hold due to problems at AsA's end?

1st Sep 2005, 07:22
I know there has been a well publicised incident down there but if MBZ'z are OK in other places in Oz out of TWR hours why not down there too?

I am sure there is a good reason.

Captain Can't
1st Sep 2005, 07:32
ummm can't land/to without cbr twr open... no MBZ ops? bugger, have to divert from bme, kgi, ayq etc...
for a while it had something to do with the firies?? :confused: :rolleyes:

1st Sep 2005, 13:36
Heaps of examples in the past when legislation prohibited the aircraft from landing uncontrolled. DC9/727 pilots into Cooly in particular used to tell stories of holding overhead in CAVOK conditions waiting for the dozy controller to arrive, in fact watching his car speed up the access road and timing the process to puffing an all stations call. Been there, done that. (Not in Cooly, btw.)

While I'm sure Hadagutful, and Time Bomb Ted, given their past history of well-reasoned and insightful posts are looking somehow to blame the dreaded ATC for this, there is no legislative impediment to pilots' landing without ATC in those stations where the situation arises.

As previously noted, the only instruction comes from the relevant airline's policy. Take it up with them rather than seeking to advance your personal philosophical gripes here.

Time Bomb Ted
2nd Sep 2005, 02:59

I'm not having a go at ATC, I'm having a go at Airservices for letting this type of thing happen. If it is a company policy, then fair enough, I'll retract my flippant comment about the amount of money spent holding.

It does indeed show poor AsA managment of a simple task however.


2nd Sep 2005, 03:48
What simple task are you talking about? How could AsA have done anything differently? Has nobody ever slept in in private industry?

Time Bomb Ted
2nd Sep 2005, 05:12
How could AsA have done anything differently? Surely you are kidding Bino's?

Last time I slept in, it didn't cost one of my clients about a thousand dollars. I'm sure your QA staff would have a fix!


2nd Sep 2005, 08:32
I've found over the years it is normal for those imbued with the culture of complaint to be considerably better at whingeing than suggesting answers. Nothing's changed, I see.


2nd Sep 2005, 10:21
While the sleep-in was the cause, the airline's policy of not landing when it is an MBZ was a significant issue, for which they hold the blame. I wonder if Jet* and VB would have done the same? I see CASA has also said that landing while an MBZ should not have presented them a problem, and the sky would certainly not have been thick with aircraft at the time. Is it purely a CBR issue (possibility of roos??) or is it company policy Australia-wide?

As to the alarm not going off. Well, for critical early rises I used to set two alarms. 1 x bedside clock/radio and a separate mechanical wake-the-neighbourhood clock in the bathroom, set a few mins. after the first was due to go off. Saved me a number of times, when power failures combined with dead backup batteries took out the clock/radio.

2nd Sep 2005, 12:37

Would you like us to control your tailwind as well? Your skipper knows what time the Tower opens. If you were "not allowed to land" it certainly isn't anything to do with ASA.


As a controller who works the airspace surrounding the MBZ, I have seen Virgin land whilst an MBZ, I've seen the RAAF land their 737's, we have freight operating in and out all night, What's the big deal? Sounds like a kneejerk reaction to the terrain incident recently.

On another note, if the controller was late and the aircraft didn't receive the service promulgated, why the hell shouldn't ASA compensate the airline? I'm in agreeance with that. The airlines should also be compensated when airspace becomes TIBA'd.

Seems like ASA is the worlds best ANSP until no service is provided, then what?

What's that fat ar$e in Canberras press release gunna say about all the staff shortages and TIBAs, we're all waiting Dick? (no not that Dick)

Now to some words of wisdom from the REAL airspace expert:

Super Cecpit?

Super Cecil
2nd Sep 2005, 12:44
"As a controller who works the airspace surrounding the MBZ, I have seen Virgin land whilst an MBZ, I've seen the RAAF land their 737's, we have freight operating in and out all night, What's the big deal?"

Your words enrouted, I see you agree we could do without 5 or 6 towers and associated airspace around the country.

It's good to see you finally admit we are over controlled.:8

Even kinder regards

2nd Sep 2005, 13:08
I simply made a statement of what we did and why. I didnt say who why where when or for what we reason we couldnt land, I just said we werent allowed. (in this case company ops dictate)

As a matter of interest we are not meant to land more than 15 mins before scheduled arrival time.

VH-Cheer Up
3rd Sep 2005, 00:08
As a matter of interest we are not meant to land more than 15 mins before scheduled arrival time
Why's that then?

Drop me at my destination 20 mins early - that's a problem how?

3rd Sep 2005, 00:29
Being 20 mins early won't do you any good if you don't have a gate to park at.

I'm just guessing that that may be a reason why they don't want to be TOO early.

3rd Sep 2005, 05:12
VH- Cheer Up, ask Geoff. Its his train set.


3rd Sep 2005, 08:31
Super Cesspit,

I'm pi$$ing myself laughing now, you and your d!ckhead mates INCREASED controlled airspace!

Make up your mind mate, do want more or less?

Suiper Cesspit, resident schizophrenic and sycophant!