North Sea Recruitment

[Special 25]

Does anyone have the accurate tally on the number of Captains leaving the North Sea. Last I heard was 4 gone from Bristow and 12 from Scotia in the last 2 months.

Where are the new pilots coming from - Various rumours abound that Scotia are resuming Ab-Initio training and another story that Bristow and Scotia were going to set up a joint training school in the US, based on Bristows existing school over there. Any truth to any of this ??

[offshoreigor]

I doubt you'll see any Bristow/Scotia Co-op program since Scotia is a wholly owned subsidiary of CHC.

Bristow may have had a relationship with Okanagan, but definately not CHC.

Cheers, OffshoreIgor http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif

[Night Sun]

Sounds about right.

I don't think anybody knows where the new pilots will come from. The oil companies are planning a lot of work this summer on the North Sea and both companies are pretty much working to their limits at the moment. Bristows probably has some slack in the system at the moment but that'll be used up very quickly.

I think the management are planning to fill the gaps with contract pilots and where they are coming from is anyone's guess! Mind you the problem may be with a shortage of aircraft rather than with pilots.

Night Sun :)

[fishboy]

Why would a company like Scotia, start ab-initio training? There are plenty of commercial pilots out there who are just desperate to find work. I know of at least 5 with between 500 and 1000 hours who just keep getting turned away without even an interview. Surely it's cheaper to take those guys on.
I posted a thread a few days ago titled, "Experience?" most poeple say the pilots with the experience get the jobs??!!
I'm confused.

[leading edge]

Offshoreigor

I don't agree that Bristow and CHC wouldn't cooperate with something like pilot training.

In the late 1970s, Bristow used to train pilots for the then British Airways Helicopters.

Since then, Bristow bought some Super Pumas and S76s from CHC when they were doing the Helikopter Service buy out. Both companies have a history of cooperating when they need to, especially if it reduces their costs.

In fact, since the CHC buy out of HS, there has been some other cooperation as well but I might get into trouble if I was to write about it here.

All is not what you see my friend.

[Cyclic Hotline]

You won't get into trouble sharing it here with your friends, LE! There is not a single contributor who would not maintain the confidence of anything discussed within the confines of our intimate circle!

So you tell us your bit, and I'll tell you mine! :)

You going to buy me a beer at the HAI this year? I sadly have no money, so will have to look to my good friends for beer! :)

[leading edge]

Cyclic

I would be happy to put my hand in my pocket and buy you a few beers but I cannot guarantee being at the HAI this year, but I am sure that there are many others who will also be happy to put a Bud in your hand.

I wish I could reveal the specific extent of cooperation but unfortunately, fear and the need for a paycheck will not allow it.

However, it is ALLEGED by a recently departed BHL employee that it includes quoting rates that ensure that either BHL or CHC get specific contracts.

This is seen as the way to raise rates although I am sure it won't be passed on to the crews. Funny how their salaries are almost identical in amount and only differ in structure and composition. You don't think that...... no, surely not.

[mrfish]

anyone have a contact for employment with Bristows?

[Special 25]

BHL and Brintel have always worked together from a training point of view. One company having a 61 sim and the other the Puma sim with pilots using each others simulators. I am aware that the latest co-pilots at Scotia were type coverted onto the Super Puma by Bristows as Scotia didn't have a training licence in place.

I think most pilots are aware that Leading Edge knows what he's talking about - There is a lot more going on behind the scenes than even the most suspicious of us would imagine !

[Night Sun]

Leading Edge is right about what he says there has been gossip suggesting that for a about a year now.

The co-pilots converted on to the Super Puma were originally Bristow pilots on gardening leave. When Bristow lost some major contracts in the summer of 00 they were 'sold' to Scotia and their bonds were transferred with them.

Fishboy, the problem with the recruiting on the North Sea at the moment is the lack of experience available. Both companies have plenty of co-pilots but what Scotia lacks particulary is Captains. You'll notice that the majority of departing pilots are Captains and it is these guys which are hard to replace. Experience of between 500 - 1000 hours is of no use to either company at the moment. Most OIL companies require aircraft commanders with 3000+ hours with twin engine, night, IMC and North Sea experience. This requirement usually forms part of the contract.

Night Sun :)

[leading edge]

mrfish

You could try contacting Bristow's personnel department at Redhill (01737 822353)

Speak to Steve Medlin if he is still there or call Aberdeen and ask for Peter Barnes
(01224 723151)If they do not deal direct then they can point you in the right direction anyway.

Night Sun and Special, thanks for the
re-enforcement of my comments. You are correct that BHL and Scotia are short of Captains, they are the ones who have been laid off, early retired or moved on to other pastures. Most oil company minimums are around 3000 hrs as you say, it is fairly standard even on international contracts.

I'm afraid it is all due to risk management and safety cases which makes it hard to get into the industry with any less time unless there are vacancies for co-pilots.

The future is interesting with around 70-80% of pilots being over 40 and 50% being over 50. The onset of diseases like diabetes and heart disease in the ever ageing helicopter pilot population is compounding the problem.

[fishboy]

Thanks Nightsun, I thought it was simply "people" that they wanted. I can certainly understand their requirment for captains.
I think everyone has known for a long time now, that there is an upcoming pilot shortage.
I guess that Scotia and Bristows etc. will have to give early promotion to co-pilots. Failing that, they will have to offer some all important cash to the qualified guys that are leaving.
I don't have a solution but what are they waiting for? A situation where they can't meet contract requirements?

Still don't understand them starting ab-initio training.

[This message has been edited by fishboy (edited 09 January 2001).]

[Special 25]

Don't be so quick to knock the idea of Ab-Inition training. As everyone has said above, the problem is in a real inbalance of the pilot workforce, too many 35ish guys leaving to go fixed wing, while those of us quite long in the tooth being laid-off or coming up for retirement now.

Scotia have a few new co-pilots but I know Bristow haven't taken on any baby pilots for 3 or so years. With a future pilot shortage well documented, and no prospect of an influx of pilots through traditional channels (ie military) the Scotia / Bristow management must have been thinking along the training lines. It takes at least 15 months to get them on-line earning money for the company so I wouldn't consider new training sponsorships an unlikely prospect.

p.s. I also heard from a friend of a friends, cleaning lady's, uncle's best mate, that they knew someone selected for a Scotia course - And you can't get more concrete than that ! I'll try to find out more.

[U R NumberOne]

Ab-initio training, eh?

Could be an option for those of us looking for an escape route from the other side of the RT at Aberdeen.

[Aerospit]

To go to the first entry in this item, I think it is 7 captains in BHL ABZ/SCS who have gone either through retirement or on to fixed wing. Still been no promotions for the senior captains and other captains back from oveseas who are presently flying as co-pilots though!! Although there has been a recent command made at Norwich much to many's disgust (not the person, but the fact that the company evidently went against an agreement made with Balpa over a command wait list, or so I hear)

Rumour abounds that there will be a course starting in the summer for ab-initio pilots with BHL. As with the rumour of the Skoda (sorry Scotia) course, there are evidently already people nominated.

Lack of aircraft will certainly be a problem if there is a large increase in work if only for the fact that a Super Puma has just gone to Brazil and a S-61 (or possibly 2) are off to the US soon.

[Houdini]

Traditionally on the North Sea the companies have held a slight surplus of pilots to cater for the very cyclical nature of the business. However since the Oil Companies put the severe thumbscrews on, that has not been the case for several years.

There have been occasions when the supply of pilots have been insufficient, mainly in circumstances similar to those that exist at the moment; Depreciating pay levels, the hire and fire mentality every few years and the perception that the up cycle will not last more than a couple of years. The younger captains have seen how the old hands have been treated, mainly at Bristows, and have decided to jump before they fall into the age trap.

The companies have got around this problem in the past by cozy deals with the CAA (SRG safety reduction group) resulting in pilots from Australia/ New Zealand being recruited on short contracts. No doubt they will repeat this or of course find pilots from Europe or possibly Eastern Europe! They will probably have the magic 3000 hours but usually not obtained in the intense instrument environment, but who cares hours are hours!

One thing is for sure, there is no way anyone is going to improve pay and conditions to attempt to retain the experience they are presently losing. It would just go against the grain!

If any of you are thinking of going Fixed wing, as you are no doubt aware, the time is right. It is not all roses but at least you would be going to an expanding vibrant industry rather than an under funded has been, that is in terminal decline. Good luck to you!

[hardover]

Need Advise,
Offshore captain mid 40's here,been through several layoffs over the past 20 years and fed up with the way things are shapping up. 1.Am I too old for the airlines 2.How long before I can make the money I presently earn 3.Even with no fixed wing time can i get on jets.4. Who do I contact and how much will it cost me??? Anyone out there able to help out a dumb old pilot. You guys that have made the switch , was it worth it???

[rotaryx]

I know a little jetranger in Bristow colours that is training Scotia pilots

[Houdini]

rotaryX tell us more!

[Mushy]

Only 18 postings on this subject out of - what? in exess of 500 pilots on the North Sea? Are the rest of you (the majority) happy or just Internet Dinosaurs? Look at the times of the postings - Sad or what?

[Up & Away]

I left the North Sea, Super Puma Capt,just over ten years ago. Fixed wing Not Easy to start. Now with command 146. Seen alot more of UK and Europe. Yes looking back I did the right thing. We keep being told that there's more fixed wing pilots required, so come on down.

[semirigid rotor]

11 (some say 13)resignations from the major operator in the last 6/7 weeks. Many more looking to go. Not everybody is going fixedwing,they just want out. And this with a 5% pay rise in a few months time. The rush for the door may just have started. And interestingly enough its captains now that are going. Who is going to be left to put the cat out? Who is going to be retiring soon? It's time to vote off the weakest link!

[DragDamper]

Nice one Semirigid. Your sentiment has been bouncing around for a while but I have yet to see an answer to such problems.
Is it a global conspiracy to drag helicopter pilots down to the lowest common standard? Not saying Canada is it, but with European pilots apparently doing better than Canadian pilots yet working for a Canadian company could there be more to this than meets the eye. Force out any sensible European pilots, send them to fixed wing, cryout that there is a shortage and get permission to hire cheap foreign labour. As long as cheap foreign labour is available pay need never go up, no Europeans will fly for such low pay and the circle continues, all the time making more money for the parent company. Sounds logical to me.

[HeloTeacher]

They aren't finding it that easy to find Canadian pilots for here either.

[Special 25]

Certainly its mostly Captains we are losing from the North Sea. Scotia have taken on several co-pilots recently and I believe Bristow have in the last few weeks, also recruited a handful of new co-pilots with a CPL(H) in their pocket already. I assume the intention is to make up 5yr+ co-pilots to fill the Captain vacancies.

Result:- Job vacancies filled..... Payroll expenses decrease...... experience on the North Sea greatly diminished !!

[offshoreigor]

Dragdamper:

I think you're on to something here, but one small correction if I may. We do have a lower end year pay, but you also have to look at the cost of living. I'm not saying I like it, but I think when the 'Overseas Employment Tax Credit' dust settles, it's interesting to see who takes home more!

This is not meant as a challenge as I would sure like you're North Sea salary and living in Canada! I realise that the cost of living is about 2.5 times higher there and that just happens to be the exchange rate!

Cheers, OffshoreIgor http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif

[Fatspice]

I have heard that last week, Bristows were interviewing people with CPL's. I don't know if these were CPL(H) or not.

[semirigid rotor]

Bristows may recruit cpl's (and the same is true of Scotia) but, if it is captains that are leaving; are there enough experienced f/o's to fill the vacancy slots? The retirement bubble is starting to add to the problem. 25% will retire in the next 4/5 years - halving the experience level. Contact captains are a short term solution, but have the effect of undermining the f/o's! So they see their career halted,and leave,the cycle goes on. With an ageing helicopter fleet, with crew experience going in the opposite direction, the customer will not get the service they want.

Its not just about money, lifestyle is just as important. Disruptive rosters with crews working the legal max will take more people out of the door than just money alone. It's time to wake up the big money in the industry - the customer, if he wants a service in the future; its time to invest now or take the boat!

[DragDamper]

Sorry, I did not actually mean to refer to Canadian pilots, that comment was referring to Canadian ownership. The point was really aiming at much cheaper labour, eastern European for example or even further east if one rumour is true. N.Sea pay is not bad it is the conditions that are becoming intolerable, but then compare them to those in other countries and I guess they could seem quite attractive.
I hope no offence was taken by our Canadian brothers or sisters. If you are having similar recruitment problems then could the same solution threaten you?

[simfly]

there is definately noises in bristow's about a sponsorship happening soon.

[Coriolis]

Interesting thread peeps - if you change just a few details then you've got a resume of the engineering situation too....contract ends, troops canned, move to other outfit, start again at bottom of ladder (= keep the cost low lads), every time some don't move, either not hired or fed up with the cycle & either go fixed-wing or selling double glazing.
Once upon a time around 50% or better of a shift were licenced, now around half that if you're lucky (don't forget, no hrs limits for a gingerbeer)
Still, at least Shell made good profits this year - maybe some of that will turn into new helos/pilots/engineers next year, what do you think...
Maybe good times are just around the corner (jam tomorrow?)
Be safe, be happy xxxx

------------------
Ground tested, no fault found

[changewing]

There may be a short term problem, but the solution is easy......offer sponsorship......cost around £40K I guess.....get a young keen individual who will go anywhere and do anything for peanuts....when h finishes his bond at around 6 years hope he leaves to go fixd wing....start cycle again.....no problem. Added bonus = no older more experienced individuals who cost too much and start to moan about problems.

Sorry if its a bit cynical, but I dont believe that experience is valued anymore, just want cheap, obedient bums on seats

[madherb]

Any idea what CHC would be offering in the way of money to successful applicants for the Ireland SAR positions?

[IHL]

Are there any companies recruiting foreign
(North American)pilots for North Sea operations ?