British airlines and Gibraltar

[Abdel]

Hi all,

This is my second post here at PPRUNE, I have been reading the forums (informative, enjoyable) for a month or so and have only decided to join today, so here goes!.......

My first question may seem a bit strange, but I have always wondered, what with the current situation between Spain and the UK regarding Gibraltar - are British airlines (BA, Monarch) allowed to overfly Spain (file a flight plan using recognised airways) and land in Gibraltar or must they overfly Portugal and Morocco to the west (or countries to the east)?

The current close co-operation between Iberia and BA also springs to mind....

Regards,

Abdel

[Jinkster]

I flew with Monarch earlier in the year to Gibraltar and our routing was south coast of the UK, Britanny, Bay of Biscay, Santiago area, passing close to Madrid, Malaga and down the coast to Gibraltar.

I dont fly for Monarch or GB and am not ATC but hope this helps!

[Abdel]

Hi Jinkster

I guess that answers my question! I was hoping someone would say something 'controversial'!

Take a read of this, take note of point 110:
(this is from http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200102/cmselect/cmfaff/973/97302.htm)

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AVIATION SERVICES


108. Spain has never recognised British title to the land ("the isthmus") on which Gibraltar airport is situated. An agreement reached between the United Kingdom and Spain in 1987 for joint use of the airport, which, it has been suggested, was originally accepted by the then Chief Minister,[108] was ultimately rejected by the Gibraltar Government. Since this time, Spain has blocked European Community measures relating to air services which would apply to Gibraltar. The British Government has agreed to suspend the application to Gibraltar of numerous such measures—including the Single European Sky—in the interests of the United Kingdom and the EU more widely.


109. Spain refuses to allow direct air communications between Gibraltar and Spain, and, according to the Gibraltar Government, discourages all other EU countries except the United Kingdom from establishing direct air links with Gibraltar.[109] This is a much more uncompromising position than that taken by the Franco regime, which allowed direct flights to operate between Gibraltar and Madrid.


110. Furthermore, if a flight bound for Gibraltar has to be diverted because of adverse weather conditions—a not uncommon occurrence, as the runway at Gibraltar makes for a particularly awkward landing—the aircraft may not land instead at a Spanish airport. The normal procedure is for the aircraft to land at Tangier in Morocco, to file a new flight plan, and only then to proceed to Malaga in Spain. If a Gibraltar-bound flight does divert directly to Malaga, that aircraft cannot be used to collect outbound passengers. It must return to the United Kingdom, and a separate, empty aircraft must be sent out to Malaga. The Gibraltar Government describes this situation as "scandalous".[110] We agree. We conclude that Spain's refusal to allow Gibraltar-bound aircraft to divert to Spanish airports in adverse weather conditions is potentially dangerous as well as unjustified. This is precisely the sort of incomprehensible restriction which obstructs hopes of understanding between Spain and Gibraltar.


111. An impediment to the use of the airport for which Spain is not responsible is the cost for commercial aircraft of landing at Gibraltar. Gibraltar airport is a joint-use facility operated by the Ministry of Defence (MoD). The landing charges imposed by the MoD are intended to recover the additional costs incurred by allowing commercial flights to use the airport. The cost for a commercial aircraft of landing at Gibraltar is nearly five times that of landing at Malaga and up to four times as much as a peak landing slot at Gatwick airport.[111] Clearly this is extremely uncompetitive. We recommend that the Government reexamine its landing charges for commercial aircraft at Gibraltar airport to ensure that they do not exceed the real cost of allowing commercial operations to take place. We further recommend that the Government should assess whether reducing the landing charges would encourage greater commercial use of the airport, thereby ensuring that current revenues are maintained.
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[RPMcMurphy]

Abdel

If you are (according to your profile) a flight planner, you should already be well aware of the usual routing across Spain of civilian traffic to and from Gib.

Why are you wanting to get someone to say something controversial? That report about the airport agreement is very old news and things have moved on since 2002. The Gib government expect an acceptable airport agreement (and subsequent changes to diversion rules) to be in force before the end of the year.

However as you are most likely some sort of journo, you must already have looked at the Gibraltar Chronicle archives for the past week or so and should know this already.

[Flying Torquewrench]

You just fly over spain like jinkster already mentioned. You agreement is indeed a little bit dated. Aircraft that can not land in GIB may divert to spanish airport and are still able to fly straight back to GIB. Point 110 was indeed valid till approx. a year ago but fortunately this has changed.

[EGXX]

My first post on here so here goes!
All civil aircarft flying to Gibraltar from the UK and vice-versa ARE allowed to overfly Spanish airspace. Normal routing from Gib-uk is out to the east slightly via PIMOS then straight up and over via MGA-BLN. There was a time a few years back when relations weren't so good, that civil airliners were denied access to Spanish airspace and had to route out to the west and over Portugal but thankfully those days are long gone (touch wood!).
Military aircraft however are still denied this and have to route to the west around the portugese coast or east and up through France. And this comming from a member NATO state!!

EGXX-Ex LXGB ATC Assistant.

[APP Radar]

However. military traffic is not allowed to fly direct from Gibraltar (LXGB) to Rota (LERT).

It's not unusual to have traffic flying LXGB-LPPT (Lisboa, Portugal) and then LPPT-LERT ... traffic doesn't even land at Lisboa, after the approach, touch and go, and outbond flight plan becomes active ...