BHL Mega pay deal.............

[NRDK]

Been told that the BHL pay review has been published by BALPA. Excellent all round and well received. What's the feeling by those 'On the ground' (probably due to fog!).
Are you pilot's/Aircrewmen happy? Do tell all, the rest of the industry is waiting for your reply.

[ 11 July 2001: Message edited by: NRDK ]

[Rolandparts]

yeah SAR commanders allowance up £33 to 851.I just wondering what to do whith all that money

[400 Hertz]

That's all we need, more BMW 5 series in the car park than we can shake a stick at.

No good news for the engineers then? :eek:

[Rameses III]

No good news for the pilots either. It's exactly what I expected shortsighted, tight fisted and basically insulting.

The troops on the ground are not happy and expected much better.

There go another five pilots fixed wing....

[distingsok]

Was this posting a management plant?
Happy???
You must be joking!!!!
If you deduct the original Aberdeen allowance and then add on b****r all, of course you can add up to over 10%. Also, don't forget the bu**ered Senior Captain thing which they hoped a man who had been in the Company for over 20 years wouldn't notice. A 10 year accountant with 1 year in helicopter breathing just will not work!!!
Get real Bristow!
Authentic rumour has it that; a first year narrow body jet thing captain gets more than a 25 year seniority helicopter captain in Bristow. Just makes those awful decision making things at 200' in a rubber suit worthwhile, doesn't it???

Go for the 40% Chaps! It'll take us close to the narrow boddy fix-wing salary!

[ 12 July 2001: Message edited by: distingsok ]

[Pat Gerard]

400 hertz

Stop slagging us off. If you are not happy with your lot, having a go at pilots won't help you. If you want the same advantages, then learn to fly. This is a pilot forum and any constructive comments by all parties are welcome. I would not qualify your comments on pprune as constructive. Why do't you vent your frustrations elsewhere. :mad:

[NRDK]

distingsok
Truth be known this was no management plant (wish it was; know how much those fat cats get in allowances and share options) Alas, the fat sh*fting from behind has seen a 1.92% overall proposed salary increase for me. So yes I share the same anger and disbelief that this insult was even entertained by BALPA. The obvious clever use of mirrors and hidden wires by Company management may have blinkered our negotiating team, but those of us grubbing around on foggy days can see the 'numbers on the dials'. The offer is already on the table, so there is nothing to lose by flicking the finger at this p*ss take and going for more (40% minimum?) after all, 'they can hardly offer less: that would be a pay drop! (Perhaps they think we won't notice?). We have the power to play for more, vote NO, Prepared to take industrial action!.

No doubt old 'love hertz' will take a crack, but what would you expect from a bunch hoodwinked into accepting this sort of 'Magic' pay award illusion.
:mad:

[400 Hertz]

Ouch! I never knew you guys were so touchy. Guess things will be OK when you get your own forum where you can stroke each other's egos in peace and quiet.

Can I get 20% if you guys get 40%? I thought that it was all done and dusted anyway.

[COLLECTIVE FRICTION]

What a bunch of arse !
I can't believe that BHL thought we would be happy with that pay deal.
I think the oil companys have to do a few sums......How much would it cost them to throw a wad of money at the helicopter operators to finance a decent pay rise (40%) compared to lost production if we go on strike ?.....Go figure.
And Guys,don't get too worked up about what 400 SPERTZ is saying .He's probably just grumpy because his boiler suit is too tight.

[Special 25]

When can we finally agree that BALPA isn't worth the money we're paying. We all came up with good intentions to leave it if the pay review was poor and here we are still. The talk we got at the Thistle from our Chief Negotiator was laughable and yet we continue to vote on a pay review that should have been thrown out long before we got to see it.

I appreciate the intentions of BALPA representatives are good but what we need is a company council - The 'benefits' we accrue belonging to this prestigeous (?) union are not worth the money we're paying.

Don't vote with the ballot paper - Vote with your feet. I'm too old and crusty with too big a pension to lose to walk across the road, but I'm damn sure going to cause as much trouble as I can. They rely on us for a lot of goodwill and if the mood is as I see it, there are going to be a lot more flights going un-crewed over the following months. Legitimate working to rule will certainly cause the loss of a few flights and maybe that pressure on both Bristow, Scotia and most importantly, the oil companies must pay dividends.

Failing that, I think there's a bug going around. I'm feeling poorly - Anyone else ???

[ 13 July 2001: Message edited by: Special 25 ]

[chopperman]

Diffng is right, until you lot on the west side are ALL prepared to stand up to your management and not do overtime, (I presume it's voluntary as it is for us at Scotia), and talk seriously about industrial action, you will get nowhere. At the moment you have a very big stick, SO WAVE IT ABOUT A BIT, then people will listen.
One small point, as overtime is voluntary, an official overtime ban is not possible. Remember, overtime is VOLUNTARY, you don't have to do it.

Get it together Gents, now is the time. A loud voice from both sides of the runway will make people listen.

Chopperman.

[Diffng]

At a meeting held on the East side on the 12th. the Scotia management came up with the assertion that we ( Scotia pilots ) were percieved to be a difficult bunch. This is because overtime is purely voluntary, and suddenly nobody wanted to do any, with the inevitable result that flights were lost. That certainly focussed the management !
I feel it's about time that you lot on the west side took some action yourselves, instead of waiting to see what happens over on our side. Go on - seize the day !!! :mad:

[Tuckunder]

400 Hertz:
Go and play with your spanners!

Special 25:

I understand your frustration with BALPA but without them we (BHL)are going no-where. No one has been more vociferous than me when speaking/communicating with our Balpa C.C. especially after the last 2 ballots which were, quite honestly, handled appallingly. However, we must hope that they have learned from the past mistakes and the signs are that they have. What they need now is our TOTAL support. When we all refuse this insult of a pay offer, our CC will have a lot more power to their elbow when they go back for round 2 talks. Read between the lines. "The Company Council has AGREED to recommend to its members". To me that suggests we didn't want to but this is the end of the road on round 1 of negotiations. Wording such as "we strongly recommend" again would be obvious.

Of course we must bother with the ballot paper. It is for that very reason last year that the CC accepted the 2000 pay offer. Lack of returned ballot papers left them as a toothless tiger. If we give them 100% return and a no vote they can go into the next meeting firing from the hips. You are quite right legitimate "working to rule" will hurt and we should ALL be doing it NOW. Sod the extra few hundred quid this month think about long term. Yes a Flu bug in the middle of summer could work wonders for our cause but for christ sake make it look legit because it is a dangerous path to tread.

Diffng/Chopperman: I couldn't agree more and believe me some of us are trying to encourage our colleagues down the safe path of "united we stand divided we fall". BALPA is the only organisation where we can unite with strength.

BHL Staff: Yes our union dues are expensive but let's give it our best shot this year. Believe me we CAN take on the oil companies and win. If your not in BALPA, join now. Make sure New Road know your address and vote no to this derisory offer.

[chopperman]

I've said this about Tuckunder before, 'he talks sense'. Those of you on the west side would be well advised to LISTEN TO HIM.
Some of you may think that Balpa is useless and that your CC is worthless. Well, they are, without your support that is. Don't moan about them, HELP THEM! If you all stand together and give them the ammunition they need then you have a chance of getting somewhere with your negotiations.

Tuckunder, keep at it, hopefully they will see the light.

Chopperman.

[ 13 July 2001: Message edited by: chopperman ]

[HOGE]

Well said, Tuckunder.

It's up to the members to RETURN the filled in ballot form, (however you wish to vote) and the CC will then act accordingly.

[COLLECTIVE FRICTION]

Tuckunder has got it right.We've got to back BALPA, they are only as strong as we make them.With regards to the BHL BALPA reps I'd just like to say thanks (especially to Dick)They have been telling us that we have to get together for years.......it's about time we wised up.

[thechopper]

:mad:
Don't forget guys, if we vote NO on this pay deal, there is only one other box to tick, and that's for the whole HOG. Otherwise we got to wind our necks in and suffer. East and west can stand together on this one and get THEM at the short and curlies.

[HISL 2 PINK]

U GOT MY VOTE !!!!!!!!!! ;)

[thechopper]

:o
the offshore guys are behind us . It's now or never.

[Ally1987]

Tuckunder: I agree with much of what you say, but not your analysis of what the CC has said: "The Company Council has agreed to recommend to its members".

All the CC had to say was that is would agree to PRESENT the proposal to its members. If they RECOMMEND it, they are for it. And if they do not realise the difference between the two versions then they shouldn't be doing the job.

[Speedwing]

Ally1987

Think you mis-understand here. It appears that the CC were asked to "strongly recommend" the deal. They refused and were told that if they did not "recommend" the deal, then the offer would be taken off the table and a much worse deal offered in its place. Surely, it is the CC's job to get its members the best offer that it can, even if it has to "recommend" the deal. Then it is up to the members to decide whether they like the deal or not. If they don't they vote against it.

There was a charter airline either earlier this year or last year whose CC "recommended" the offer from their management because it was the best deal that they could get. It was put out to the members and they strongly voted against it. The CC was then able to go back to the management and get a better deal. The workforce were giving them the support to go back and negotiate.

Don't be blinded by simple words, it's all a game of politics (ask our MPs about their tactics sometime!). The important thing is - IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THE OFFER THEN VOTE AGAINST IT, IRRESPECTIVE OF WHAT YOUR CC HAS "RECOMMENDED"

The more that do, the more likely the company may actually get the message that their offer isn't good enough and will have to look for money from somewhere such as those big rich b******s of oil companies that put us (via weak management over the last 20 odd years) in this damn awful position!

[disstings]

Come on. How on earth could you offer a "worse deal" than this in the current circumstances if you are serious about manning your aircraft.
This deal is atrocious. You're one of the lucky ones if you get more than 5% in real terms out of it, a lot get less.
How on earth are we going to get up to parity with the narrow body jet guys if we accept this nonsense.
Being the poorest paid chaps on the helicopter going offshore is getting tedious and soul destroying.
LET'S GET THIS SORTED OUT!

[Ally1987]

Speedwing--

Thanks for the clarification. I think I'd say now that your (?) CC made a mistake in allowing their arms to be twisted by BHL. I think they would have been much better advised to not only point-blank refuse to recommend the deal but also to put a flea in the management's ear and to widely publicise the company's behaviour.

[Pat Gerard]

To Collective Friction

What does " BOHICA " means, please ??????

[Tuckunder]

Ally 1987:

I do not disagree with your sentiments. However, having sat on the management side of the fence in a dim and distant past with a different operator! I do know that there has to be a certain amount of trust between Union team and Management team. Hence the recent gagging. This is actually no bad thing, because it allows frank discussion within the 4 walls. If either side breaks that trust then future negotiations are damaged, therefore this trust tends to be honoured.It would not be right for the negotiating team to give the management a "flea in the ear" for the same reasons of trust.

I don't have a problem with our CC putting this proposal to us because that allows us to give a much bigger "flea in the ear" with a unanimous rejection in the forthcoming ballot. Then Richard and co can go into stage 2 with real ammunition. The company negotiating team will not be able to ignore the result of a ballot and impending industrial strife.

Happy flying!

Did anyone find my 61 or puma!!

[Rescue1]

Tuckunder It's in the Hanger Painted Red and White Can't miss it, don't know where you left the Puma. Lol

As for the pay deal We have to back the cc, Tuckunder is right if we stick together we Will get a better Deal.
Rescue1 ;)

[pitchrod2000]

400hz certainly has got you all going but come on boys take it on the chin and lets stick together on this one.

Can you imagine how we felt when management wanted us to accept an offer of 5% then after we had rejected it we saw your deal. They certainly tried to stitch us up good and proper.

We need to be united on this we all need a major boost and fighting amongst ourselves does nobody any good at all, remember the old "Divide and rule" thats obviously the management game.

Remember pilots can't work without engineers and the same applies to us if you're not flying there's no work for us.

Anyway guys you can keep your 5 series BMW's just pay me enough to buy and run a Ducati 996 SPS far more fun!!! :)

[COLLECTIVE FRICTION]

Dear Pat,my little continental chum.
BOHICA stands for.....Bend Over Here It Comes Again !
Rather appropriate non ?

[Pat Gerard]

To Collective Friction

Thanks. I should have known. That will teach me.