IDENT without request - No Thanks !

[Ayr-Rage]

NOTAM now issued for aircrews asking them NOT to IDENT on departure without a request from ATC.
That solves that !
Maybe.......LOL

[Kestrel_909]

B1667/05 - (Issued for EGTT EGPX) AIR TRAFFIC STANDARDS DEPARTMENT HAVE BECOME AWARE THAT SOME ACFT ARE SQUAWKING UN-REQUESTED IDENT ON DEPARTURE FROM A NUMBER OF UK AIRPORTS IN AN ATTEMPT TO ASSIST CONTROLLERS IN IDENTIFICATION. THIS UN-REQUESTED IDENT DOES NOT COMPLY WITH THE REQUIREMENTS OF MATS PART 1 FOR IDENTIFICATION. THE CONTROLLER WILL THEREFORE HAVE TO REQUEST THE IDENT AGAIN. THIS NOTAM IS TO INFORM CREWS THAT THEY SHOULD ONLY SQUAWK IDENT WHEN IT IS REQUESTED BY ATC. 26 AUG 08:39 UNTIL 30 SEP 12:00 ESTIMATED

[alterego]

Must wait to beasked coming out of EDI in future.

Interesting.

[atsa2ltcc]

alterego;

What do you think the ident is for? How does it help to press it without being asked to. That is the whole point.

[ZRH]

Does it matter if a pilot idents? On our screens it doesn't really make a difference and is pretty insignificant. My previous employer had a system where when the pilot pushes the ident button, the radar label becomes double the size with a large IDT underneath the label. That wasn't nice.

[5milesbaby]

ZRH, suggest you read this thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=184418) to see what raised the issue.

At least there is a definate final answer now :ok:

[Stupendous Man]

Well not everyone has read the NOTAM.

At least a dozen coming out of the Belfast TMA this morning "helping" by coming on the freq and squawking ident.
And most of them were in orange. Not slagging - just wondering is this something that their pilots are discussing in the crew room.

[Take up the Hold]

I believe some of the major airfields in the Scottish FIR were asked to put a reference to the NOTAM on their ATIS. Maybe this has not happened at Aldergrove.
It could be pilots are not briefing themselves properly, not listening to the ATIS or just choosing to ignore the NOTAM.

I wonder which?

TUTH

[normal_nigel]

Why do people feel the need to do it?

Never experienced any BA guys doing it from either seat.

[Right Way Up]

I find it hard to believe that people do this. I can only think its a control thing. Maybe the answer when someone idents without being asked, is to get them to do a 360 degree identifying turn. I think this fad would soon die out!:hmm:

[Kestrel_909]

Nothing in Aldergrove ATIS about it this morning, but Edinburgh has 'pilots of departing aircraft are not to squawk ident until instructed.'

[eastern wiseguy]

Frankly there is enough to listen to on the Atis. Let the crews self brief ....read the notam and lets move on with our lives!.
As an EGAA controller I have noticed a drop in the number of "helpful" idents so something has happened .

[niknak]

Its an notam, an ATSIN, and common sense, why make extra work for us?

[Mr R Sole]

Yes but who reads every NOTAM on every flight?

I will hold my hands up and say that I sometimes don't and I am not the only one!

[eastern wiseguy]

who reads every NOTAM on every flight

Why should MY modus operandi be messed about because YOU don't brief?

[TCAS FAN]

The average pilot will not have heard of "MATS Part 1", let alone read it! Why doesn't ATSSD (part of SRG) operate in the real world and merely state that in the UK you don't ident until you are instructed to do so, instead of expecting us mere mortals to have a clue about an ATC procedure that is apparently not generally published?

[PPRuNe Radar]

The average pilot will not have heard of "MATS Part 1", let alone read it! Why doesn't ATSSD (part of SRG) operate in the real world and merely state that in the UK you don't ident until you are instructed to do so, instead of expecting us mere mortals to have a clue about an ATC procedure that is apparently not generally published?

A fair point. But on the other hand, can you point me at where it says in any pilot documentation that pilots can ident whenever they feel like it or want to be helpful ?? :ok:

Personally I have no problem with it .. although either they are going to have tell me they have the right code assigned by stating the numbers they are squawking, or I am going to have tell them what I want them on and get their readback. So it may not save a lot of RT anyway, depending on how they phrase their RT call.

Yes but who reads every NOTAM on every flight? I will hold my hands up and say that I sometimes don't and I am not the only one!

Failure to prepare is preparing for failure. If you have an incident which endangers other airspace users, or yourself, simply because you didn't brief appropriately, then I don't think the authorities would be very lenient. Quite a few people who have infringed Red Arrows TRAs for example had not read NOTAMs, but still picked up fines of several thousands of ££££. Given the availability of online briefing through the CAA and other bespoke software packages, freephone activity telephone lines, and FIS from ATC units, I don't have any sympathy with such 'professionals'.

[ybustagut]

Personally I can't see a problem with pilots squawking ident if they do it as they say it. Just means I have nothing to say apart from hello!

[Mr R Sole]

With commercial pressures, some airlines simply don't give their crews enough time to plan and brief properly. In my last airline we had a 40-minute report before departure and it was sometimes impossible to go through all the NOTAMS. Departure and Destination got looked at if possible as well as the alternate but the en-route NOTAMS got frequently overlooked. This is where the NOTAM about the Ident issue will probably be! The extra 20 minutes that I have with my new company makes all the difference and now the NOTAMS are looked at. Through I could not find it today when I looked!

In my last company we could delay the flight and plan and brief properly and then get a bollocking for leaving late or check the weather and glance at the NOTAMS and then choose a fuel figure and then go and leave on time!

[ifleeplanes]

Yes the company may have a report time of T-40 but that doesnt preclude you from going in earlier to do the job properly. I know it stinks but thats the way of it these days....I am ALWAYS in early because I know I personaly need more time to plan.

[Scott Voigt]

Impossible to go through all the NOTAM's before launch. Sounds like if you don't delay your launch to pre brief as required, you are then in violation and putting your lic. in jeapordy, not to mention your crew and passengers. We see it over here on this side of the pond too, and schedule is NOT an excuse for it. Sorry, this is a safety issue on going through the NOTAM's and KNOWINg your route of flight etc. before you launch...

regards

Scott

[ShyTorque]

For those who couldn't find it today:

"E N - R O U T E - I N F O R M A T I O N :

EGTT (LONDON) :

COM : FROM 05/08/26 08:39 TO 05/09/30 12:00 EST B1667/05
E)AIR TRAFFIC STANDARDS DEPARTMENT HAVE BECOME AWARE THAT
SOME ACFT ARE SQUAWKING UN-REQUESTED IDENT ON DEPARTURE
FROM A NUMBER OF UK AIRPORTS IN AN ATTEMPT TO ASSIST
CONTROLLERS IN IDENTIFICATION. THIS UN-REQUESTED IDENT
DOES NOT COMPLY WITH THE REQUIREMENTS OF MATS PART 1 FOR
IDENTIFICATION. THE CONTROLLER WILL THEREFORE HAVE TO REQUEST
THE IDENT AGAIN. THIS NOTAM IS TO INFORM CREWS THAT THEY SHOULD
ONLY SQUAWK IDENT WHEN IT IS REQUESTED BY ATC."

Guys - it was the FIRST entry on the UK AIS website for the London FIR .......... :rolleyes:

[Stupendous Man]

Personally I can't see a problem with pilots squawking ident if they do it as they say it. Just means I have nothing to say apart from hello!

The point is the rules state that a pilot has to be instructed to ident. This seems to be an endless debate for some reason - why?

Don't squawk ident until asked.

There really is no debate.

As for not reading all briefing material I don't see that as an excuse.
As ATCOs we have to be briefed before we plug in everyday - that means arriving at work early to do so. I am sure all you pilots appreciate us not routeing you through the active danger areas we have briefed ourselves about! ;)