ATC - ground vehicles VHF communication

[Mstream]

Hi !

I would like to know whether there are any controllers here from towers where VHF communication (on GND/TWR frequency) with ground vehicles is used (towing, runway inspection, snow action) ?

Take care

Mstream

[cossack]

All of the vehicles here at YYZ that are radio equipped are using VHF rather than UHF. Better quality and no cross-coupling required.

[TheOddOne]

cossack,

Excellent news, adds evidence to those aspiring to the same.

We've increased the number of vehicles with VHF direct from Leader vehicles (Checker etc) through Engineering vehicles to grasscutters.

With increasing reliability of small VHF radios - we use the same kit fitted to aircraft - and improved training and recurrent testing of staff allowed on the Manoeuvring Area, the need for a UHF cross-coupled system is washing away.

The Odd One

ps, ground vehicles don't need FM immunity, 'cos they're not flying IFR in controlled airspace!

[TCAS FAN]

Mstream

Southampton, Uk operate their vehicles on VHF/AM (ie the Tower frequency). After using UHF for vehicles for many years and a cross-coupling system with the Tower frequency, which never worked satisfactorily, they have equipped their vehicles with VHF/AM for direct communication.

It is a UK CAA safety requirement that if you operate vehicles on a separate frequency from TWR/GND you nust have a cross-coupling system to enable aircraft to hear the vehicles and vice-versa.

Keep safe!

[stopbar]

At our regional airport there is no cross coupling of UHF to VHF and the amount of traffic on UHF is always a concern and distraction. At the moment every vehicle calls for every journey on the maneouvering area and you can end up with more vehicles than aircraft. We have tried to suggest own lookout for vehicles that are not crossing the runway or transitting between Apron and western hangars but our masters seem to think we would be contravention of AOA driving regs though they are quite unable to show the relevant reg in writing. It is very frustrating and becoming a problem as we get busier. So two questions:

1. Anybody any suggestions to lessen the UHF load, what goes on at other regionals?

2. For TCAS where are the regulations that require UHF/VHF cross coupling written?

Thanks for your ideas in advance.

Stopbar

[Mooncrest]

There have been a few changes at LBA recently in this regard.
Prior to about the middle of March ground vehicles were controlled on a distinct UHF frequency which was often manned by the Tower ATCA under the ATCO's licence. There was no cross-coupling and the Tower controller frequently had to keep an ear on the UHF and VHF frequencies simultaneously. Then, to coincide with a new VCCS, the two frequencies were cross-coupled, meaning the ATCA now does no talking and the ATCO does it all. Slightly more work in the hotseat but effectively only having to monitor one frequency. Swings and roundabouts really. I believe it was introduced as something to do with European safeguards against runway incursion. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I would have thought if operators of ground vehicles were to be using Aeronautical VHF frequencies as opposed to an airfield's indigenous UHF frequencies they would have to be licensed by the CAA.

Interesting thread this one. Over to you... :ok:

[niknak]

Further to Mooncrest's post, we also have all the vehicles on UHF, most of which are equipped with VHF monitors on the tower freq' with cross coupling, the ATCAs do the UHF radio under the jurisdiction of the tower atco.
Recent changes to the way we do things have led to a drastic reduction in the amount of vehicles on the manouvering area, but we still have a regular requirement for aircraft to be towed across runways, vehicles to work on the manouvering area, and bird patrols.
We lessened the UHF workload by banning anyone who doesnt have a proven operational requirement to be out there.

Personally, I think that all VHF and UHF traffic on the manouvering area should be controlled directly by the atco, not a third party, for the simple reason that if the atca makes an error there's no proof as to what instruction they were given by the atco.

[M609]

We use a seperate VHF for veihicles, and ATCAs work it under our (ATCOs) licence.
Now, I hate this practice, and because of some rather nasty incidents where the "readback-hearback" loop broke down causing rwy incursions, we are now going to remove the ATCAs from this task. (Sensitive topic, since we are currintly in a scheme to automate them out of the VCR completely)

Will we use the same freq as TWR? Probably not, but perhaps bandbox the freqs.

[Ranger 1]

Although not an Air traffic Controller, I spend virtually all of my working life out on the airfield, we have a system of Cross coupling, all stations on the Tower frequency can here us, we can also select Ground frequency when required to do so. We are not allowed to talk directly to aircraft, only via ATC.
This system enables us to "Free Range " on the airfield maintaining a listening watch, while carrying out Bird control & inspection duties without driving everyone mad with transmissions every few mins.
Access to certain areas are restricted & require clearence from Tower without exception, such as ILS critical areas & access to the Runway.
There are times when "Free Ranging is suspended such as in LVP's.
In an emergency the Cross coupling is deselected & it reverts back to an UHF channel between us ATC & other users operating on the airfiled.
"Free Ranging" is only granted to a few select departments who have met the required standards.
On the whole it is a very good system you can prevent a number awkward situations developing in advance & keep things moving safer & easier by being in the loop, with the Aircraft therefore being better placed to provide a Follow me for example or just providing an extra pair of eyes for the Tower in places where they can't always see whats going on. :ok:
On the light hearted side of things some of you pilots out there know you we can have a go back at you over the RT when you take the p:mad: :E