Flying irish piper cub on FAA License

[garjoyce]

I have an F.A.A. Private Pilots License. I would like to know can i logg hours on an Irish Registration (EI) piper cub Taildragor Plane.
Thank you

[Mister Geezer]

No you can't fly a Irish (EI) reg aircraft with a FAA PPL. You would need to convert your licence to a JAA licence.

[Lionel Hutz]

Mister Geezer You are in error. Please do not be so dismissive.

You can fly an EI reg aircraft on an FAA ticket.

The Relevant Legislation is Statutory Instrument No 333 of 2000

paragraph (10) of article 5 to be exact

recently revisited in AIC Nr 11/04, Paragraph 3.1

Your FAA licence is automatically Validated for private flying, Day VFR only.

The only peculiarity is that an FAA 3rd Class medical is not acceptable to the IAA it must be either a first or second class FAA medical.

[dublinpilot]

My understanding of the rule is the same as Lionel Hutz.

The only thing I would add, is that I would assume additional (but don't know for a fact) that rules would apply, if you wanted to fly the EI registered cub outside Irish airspace on your FAA licence.

dp

[Mister Geezer]

But you still need a IAA validation? So if that is the case, then the FAA licence itself is not acceptable.

[2Donkeys]

The SI mentioned above renders the licence valid without formal validation.

Additionally, there is no "Day" restriction as stated above; instead there is a VFR restriction. The holder may fly at night subject to VFR (ie inside CTZs in Ireland) provided that the foreign licence does not prohibit night flight.

2D

[Taildragger55]

Lionel,

I have been involved in numerous futile conversations about this, some with the IAA, who have at various times told me me FAA PPl is not recognised, is OK with an FAA Class 2, or is OK with a JAR class 2 . :mad:

Some idiots hold that an FAA PPl is not ICAO Annex 1 compatible. Jaysus wouldn't it be great if some one could nail it down.

Meanwhile I'm still flying.

From SI 333.
10) For the purposes of this Article, a valid and subsisting licence, other than a JAA licence, issued by any other state which is a member of the International Civil Aviation Organisation in conformity with Annex I (Personnel Licensing)... shall be deemed to be a licence validated by the Authority under the provisions of this Order entitling the holder thereof to fly as a member of the flight crew of a private aircraft...:??????????

[SCruiser]

dublinpilot, or others,

Would you know where to find more info on flying outside of Irish Airspace in an EI-reg plane on an FAA license? Is it permissible?

Cheers, SC

[IO540]

For the few years I've been keeping tabs on this (I currently fly an N-reg, under both JAA and FAA licenses, with both being valid for most of my flights) I have been astonished at the amount of disinformation that appears in various places, concerning the subject of FAA licenses, ratings, and certification.

SOME of it is just people who know nothing about the subject but feel a burning desire to click on the SUBMIT button on every online forum they can find.

But most of it comes from people who have an axe to grind. Who are they? Well, people employed in JAA flight training is one bunch. People working for JAR 145 maintenance firms (without FAA approvals) is another. Freelance FAA instructors (who then PM people offering their services, while saying that all 45 hours must be flown with an FAA CFII, etc) is another. I also bet that junior employees of the CAA and DfT are at it.

This is why one must trust nobody unless one is given references (in the relevant legislation) which one can look up.

In cases where there is ambiguity, or an inconsistency between different regulatory regimes and one has to establish which one applies, one has no option but to get something in writing from somebody who appears to be in a position of authority to give the view.

One well worn example is whether the UK IMC Rating is valid in an N-reg. It is and I have it from both the CAA and the FAA, in writing. I don't have it from the administrator of the FAA, in his handwriting, signed in blood and with a specimen of his semen attached for identification, but that isn't necessary, because a reply from the FAA is good enough.

Has the USA filed a difference with ICAO on the FAA PPL? If not then it must be ICAO compliant.

Has the USA filed a difference with ICAO on the Class 3 FAA medical (one with no special conditions attached)? If not then it must be ICAO compliant.

The quote from SI333 sounds like the equivalent ANO article which validates ICAO PPLs, for G-reg aircraft, and the validation isn't limited to the domestic airspace.

[dublinpilot]

The simple answer is, no I don't know.

Drop the IAA an email, with your specific query, and I'm sure they'll let you know.

Email addresses are shown here.
(http://www.iaa.ie/corp_fin/show_con.asp?ID=16)

Also have a look at this aic (http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight/ENX7SHJ56S2BE/EN/AIC/EI_Circ_2004_N_11_en.pdf) if the link works!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To quote from part 3.1:

3 Procedures for Validation of a Private Pilots Licence issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1

3.1 Private Pilots Licences (Aeroplane or Helicopter)

The holder of a PPL(Aeroplane or Helicopter), issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 (Personnel Licencing) and holding at least a Class 1 or Class 2 Medical Certificate, is automatically validated for the excise of PPL privileges and associated aircraft ratings within the State on an aircraft used in the private category, as permitted by the Certificate of Airworthiness issued by its state of registry, under VFR by day only, in accordance with Paragraph (2) of Article 3 of the Directive and paragraph (10) of Article 5, of the Irish Aviation Authority (Personnel Licensing) Order (SI No 333 of 2000), as amended.
_________________________________________________

I hope that's of some help. But like I say, I'm by no means an expert in this. In fact not in the slightest! I'd send an email to the IAA, and then you have it in writing.

dp

[Microheavy]

Contact Kevin Swords in the IAA. He's a nice bloke and will set you straight with the minimum amount of hassle

[IO540]

is automatically validated for the excise of PPL privileges and associated aircraft ratings within the State on an aircraft used in the private category, as permitted by the Certificate of Airworthiness issued by its state of registry, under VFR by day only

which sounds like an FAA PPL is OK within Ireland only. An FAA IR isn't very useful given the day VFR limitation...

In this case, I would contact the IAA in writing QUOTING these regs and ask for their confirmation.

Also this doesn't say you have to be flying an Irish reg plane. Is there some other stuff on this? As far as the Irish are concerned, the above (taken alone) suggests you could fly an F-reg or G-reg on an FAA PPL in Irish airspace.

I would not take a phone call as sufficient to contravene something which is already written. I've spoken on the phone to people very high up in the UK CAA who turned out to be very wrong.

I am no expert on this either but I think an ICAO member state is entitled to apply whatever medical standards it likes to pilots based there, regardless of their licenses or aircraft reg. Bookworm will no doubt dig up the relevant para. The ICAO document itself is online; the annexes aren't.