ATCOs to wear shirt and tie

[Gordon Bennett]

ATCOs dont get to meet their customers face to face very often, but when we do shouldn't we be dressed in a smart manner? Do pilots expect a certain standard of dress when they visit operational units? Should they?

I wouldn't want my holiday B737 pilot to wear scruffy jeans and a T-shirt. So should I wear a jacket and tie to the radar? Truth is, I don't! But I am having second thoughts about my casual approach to work clothes.

[Lon More]

Go back to the 1960s, a missive came down from above that we were allowed to take our jackets off, and - shock, horror - remove our ties and roll our sleeves up at LATCC.

No thank you, wear whatever you are comfortable in.

[flower]

From my own experience i have found that those of us at the Airports tend to wear slightly smarter clothes than our colleagues at the centres, shirt and Tie is commonplace all be it hardly formal.
I really don't think clothes should be an issue, we do not have a public persona so I think we should be comfortable rather than formal.
My personal dress wear tends to be smart casual as that is what I feel is appropriate but I do believe in each to their own.

[Dizzee Rascal]

Shirt and Tie, except for weekends....and when at work!!;)

[av8boy]

I say, mandate black pants, white, long-sleeved shirt (coffee stains and a crumpled pack of smokes in the pocket required), skinny black tie, and an “astronaut” haircut.

Wait a minute! That’s me!

:ok:

[N5528P]

I started my 'new' job at VIE some months ago (in the operations department) and when I was told that wearing a uniform is standard in this department I was quite annoyed.

After some weeks I discovered that this is a good idea when you are a lot on the apron - so you are identified as one who is allowed to be in this area even before people can read your ID.

But I consider it absolutely useless for controllers to dress in a special way for normal duty - for special events like press conferences maybe, but why in the TWR / ARTCC?

Just dress in a manner you feel good in ...

Regards, Bernhard

[Warped Factor]

If a certain standard of dress is required then fine...but also let's call it a "uniform" and the company can pay for it.

Otherwise, smart but casual works for me.

WF.

[flower]

Flower....

but what about Tuesdays eh?

Boss

Hardly a uniform is it Boss if we aren't wearing the particular garment ;) and of course only applies to NATS

[Pierre Argh]

Grey trousers, light blue shirt, black tie.... hang on a minute, I think I'm becoming a Crab!!!

[ILS 119.5]

If a mere ATCO was to wear a shirt and tie then how much gold braid do the supervisors and watch managers wear. I used to wear jeans and a t shirt whilst at LATCC the bosses were not bothered as long as I did my job right. I did not keep my tie on during my flying career either. I wore it to and from the aircraft. For some of the naive people out there, take a trip to the area centre at Amsterdam where you will find jeans, t shirts, fag packets tucked under the sleeves etc. In a safety environment if there is no need for safety clothing then a person should be allowed to wear what they feel comfortable working in. i.e no distractions due to a tie. I remember one colleague working the Daventry sector (flat radar displays) lost sight of a few a/c due to his tie being on the display. Explain that.

[Barnaby the Bear]

Smart during the week. Smart casual at weekends. That seems to be the norm at the units I have worked at. :}

[BexyBear]

Forget the shirt and tie...(short) skirts all year round:ok:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3129401.stm

BBr

[Scott Voigt]

Shorts and T-shirts or polo shirts are the norm here when the temps get in the 35C range...

regards

Scott

[atcea.com]

Dress code has been an issue with me for a lot of years. It all began in the '70s in Chicago. I was sent home for wearing pants deemed inappropriate. Looking back, perhaps they were inappropriate - goofy "hippy" style things - but I bristled at the thought that the "pants police" had diciplined me.

In later years the dress code evolved - or perhaps, devolved - into a more "casual" look. OK, make that "ratty" look. Yet, once again I was dispatched to the clothes closet; this time for wearing "deck shoes" to work in Puerto Rico.

These days I see folks in grubby, risque t-shirts and tattered shorts in the controll room and I wonder if we haven't gone too far. Being older - and therefore wiser - than the new kids, I agree with Ben Stein (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/14/business/yourmoney/14every.html): if you wish to be thought of as a professional by those who see you at work, dress the part!
---
ATC Chat Now! (http://atcea.com)

[normally right blank]

"Men in Black"?

or "Blues Brothers"?

Two good choices!

Best regards

[Fox3snapshot]

I am wearing the same uniform as the janitor in my building, the waiters at the local Arabic restaurant and the guy pumping gas across the road....but I am sooooo proud of it! :p

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I don't necessarily subscribe to ties.... but be smart and casual. Is that totally impossible? The majority of people I worked with at Heathrow Tower were thus clad.. and I was horified when some of us moved to West Drayton to see controollers wearing jeans with the knees hanging out, etc. Strangely, those same people used to tart themselves up in suits for validation boards so they were capable of looking smart..

[JayeRipley]

As someone who's handsome knees can often be seen through ripped jeans, does it really matter in the scheme of things? I'm comfortable with what I wear and can't understand this obsession with "smart" clothes being somehow more acceptable than "casual". It's just a job when all's said and done, I'm not in the public eye, and why should I tart myself up ( board or no board) - my ability to do the job is not affected my what I wear, so why should anyone be horrified?

[Vercingetorix]

Fox3's remarks show his employers are short of the curve. Flyers have their bars, Mil has its' Stars & Bars and his company has ? same as the toilet cleaners?

[DC10RealMan]

I recently turned up for work in a jacket and tie just for a change. I had to go home half way throgh the shift to change into my usual Hawaiian shirt and shorts as I was getting too much stick from colleagues such as "What time is the court case", "What time is the interview" concluding with someone sticking on my back an advertisement for undertaker. I thought I was quite stylish!

[VectorLine]

It wouldn't bother me if pilots turned up wearing jeans and a T shirt. It wouldn't change how they fly the aircraft.

I say let everyone dress how they like to work.

The world is just socialised into believing one thing is acceptable 'business wear' and anything else isn't. It's all about Perception :ok:

[Spitoon]

At the risk of being accused of taking this more seriously than I should I think we need to remember one of the reasons that aircraft crews wear a uniform. It's to give them authority and to be easily identifiable - things that are very important in the event of an emergency when the pax need to be told what to do.

Us poor controllers need to have authority at times but we do it with our voices rather than through appearace - hence appearance doesn't matter for doing our jobs.

I personnally favour the relaxed mode for the ops room, it's just more comfortable. In the past, however, I worked for one mob whose ops rooms were an embarrassment with tatty furniture, sharp edges to furniture etc. I chose to dress in older clothes there because they would often get damaged. Strangely, the management encouraged smarter dress because they sometimes brought round 'tours' of the local Rotary Club or Womens Institute and felt that shabby controllers did not reflect well on the outfit (if you'll excuse the pun). It never seemed to occur to the bosses that an ops room with holes in the panels because equipment had packed up - sometimes with wires hanging out of the holes - and chairs that were so worn that the stuffing was coming out had more effect on the public perception than controllers in jeans and open-necked shirts.

[Fox3snapshot]

Thank you and yes...having worn a real uniform for many years it is far from encouraging to see my uniform colours being flown by all those who use the same tailor....which is most cheap commercial establishments in the city as the shirts come it at 2 quid and the trow 3!

:sad:

"Tickets please....." :p

[Uncommon Sense]

I was pleasantly surprised to drop some late paperwork off to the crew of a B74F (in another life), and witness them resplendent in Jeans and Polo Shirts for their long-haul leg.

Guess what - the plane flew just the same!

The uniform is an image thing - makes the public feel good. Thats about it really.

Hey - it was a total rip off of a Ships Crew uniform in the first place anyway (by Juan Trippe)

If I am doing a double shift (Morning / Night) (and then probably on overtime) the safest uniform for you and your aircraft is the one that I feel comfortable in.

[shortandsmelly]

Until there are video links to go along with the radios, WHO CARES what a controller looks like??? :p

[javelin]

No, but we wonder what the controllers look like - passes a few minutes on a long night flight
When some sultry French bird whispers into your 'edset - cleared direct 'burryedd' it gets you all a tiss. Then 'tother chap reminds you that she is probably into her 3rd pack of Gitanes, has underarm hair and a moustache :E

[andrijander]

Well, I guess I'm lucky of living where and when I do. That is now and in center europe -I recon it'll be nicer in the south though-. I was recently in India and, if they were as narrow-minded as an ant in here, today I wouldn't have been able to step in the ops room. I'm wearing one of these pyjamas -the top part- with jeans and the cheapest sandals they can produce in Rajastan. Tie?....where's the wedding?

PS: I hope that by describing how I'm dressed at the minute I haven't turned this discussion into an erotic line -or the usual: what are you wearing? sort of line of conversation-.

[Gordon Bennett]

I'm convinced. No more business suit for me! Err, until my validation board that is. Don't want to get the chop cos SRG don't like my T-shirt!
After that I might even show off my tattoo!

[ebenezer]

Doesn't what you wear reflect your inner self and attitude?

Dress like a 1970s hippy and be thought one - dress like a hobo, etc., etc.

Agreed, it might not affect your professional performance but if you really want to be thought as "professional" look it and act it!

This doesn't necessarily mean wearing a tie and jacket - you can look equally smart in an ironed open-neck shirt and pressed chinos, or a decent pair of pressed shorts.

Emphasis on IRONED and PRESSED!

Why insist on wearing your gardening/workout/car-cleaning gear to work?

Personally, I think it's just an excuse for (a) not bothering and (b) being concerned about looking too much like the Management or the Establishment. But don't be stupid - whenever did you see them in the Ops Room wearing a headset??

As for the tale of a controller who 'lost' aircraft returns because they were lurking under his tie - yeh, right: and look, there's a pig established on the ILS for 27L...

:\

[CAP670]

Give me an ATCO that can 'do the business' safely and expeditiously, and whilst sticking to the rules; and who's a good team player.

If that ATCO is additionally, a snazzy dresser that's fine by me.

But a snazzy dresser who's a safety and expedition liability: no thanks!

I'll stick with the ATCO that's dressed in jeans...

:ok:

[vector4fun]

I'm with a few of the more conservative posters. I'm all for a reasonable amount of comfort in attire, but the overly casual dress in the control room has gotten over the line. Ratty T-shirts advertising bars, flip-flops, wrinkled jogging shorts, etc. If your fellow controllers think you look un-professional and more like a homeless vagabond, I can assure you your staff and supervisors do too, even if they don't (can't) ban it. Have some self respect, because nobody else will respect you until you do...

[andrijander]

ebenezer:

I'd rather choose (c) I dress as I want to, not as you tell me.

That's having a lot of self respect and giving the others a hint on what will happen if they don't respect me. A bit of a laugh from your side won't make me change my mind. I'd be pretty weak -mentally- if I did. And who is worse: someone who doesn't care on fashion statements or someone who has prejudices on how ppl dresses? I do iron my T-shirts and jeans too. And they don't advert any bar...the one I wear today reads "scuba divers do it deeper". Fair enough I ain't one but they deserve some ad -it's difficult to get chicks underwater, me recons-.

Btw, I do think that "dressing just like the others do" is the stupid thing to do -except when there are good reasons for it like in the army, navy, etc...-. And if you try to argue that I'm doing that by wearing jeans...I don't find'em that comfy but they're better -in that aspect- than suits and you don't get many choices unfortunately. In the east they don't give a toss about ads on tv and what is fashionable or not and it shows -try the pyjamas, now that's comfy-. But where to buy'em here? no chance.

Gone for brunch now,
A.

[LostThePicture]

Ah, yes. The incredibly banal biennial debate on what ATCOs should wear to work. One of my personal favourites.

For those of you that missed it, the devastatingly exciting 2003 version is here: Uniforms for NATS STAFF ?? (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102685&perpage=15&pagenumber=1)

My opinion: It's handy to have a distinction (at NATS in any case), between those people whose hard work has returned the company to profit, and those who are a hindrance to all things air traffic. The former group are called ATCOs, and wear what they choose. T-shirt and jeans, vest and shorts, speedos (TM). I couldn't really care less. Although speedos (TM) might be going a bit far. The latter group are called management, and helpfully identify themselves by wearing shirt and tie at all times.

Even handier still, there is a natural watershed between the two groups. It's called: THE LOCAL AREA SUPERVISOR BOARD. Prior to applying for one of these, an ATCO will generally wear what he wants. However, following selection to be a LAS, this person will magically be transformed into a management automaton, with compulsory shirt and tie. Sadly, this person will not be quite as useful as before - this being an unfortunate effect of promotion above the ATCO 2 level. Observe the effect this year for yourselves!

You'd have to be jaw-droppingly narrow-minded to prejudge a person's professionalism based on what they wear to work. Professionalism in our workplace is ABSOLUTELY NOT a function of smart dress. If anything, it's an inverse relationship, with the scruffiest ATCOs being some of the best (not that I would put myself in that category). Management might not like it, but with the current staffing situation.....

ebenezer - HUMBUG! Gotta love the pressed chinos suggestion though. Anyone for 80's throwback day?

LTP

[Pierre Argh]

I still have a fairly open mind on dress codes... but to say
Professionalism in our workplace is ABSOLUTELY NOT a function of smart dress
may be accurate, but as far as "impression" of one's professionalism goes, it's sadly true....

I would argue that "smart" is probably more important than "Shirt & tie"... but in many work environments people atribute professional ability with dress code... what would be your reaction if you saw a Solicitor (at work) in calf length cut-off shorts and sandals... or your bank manager in a Metallica T Shirt and torn demins? (some will undoubtedly say "why not"... there is no "Why not" about it, its just the expectation we seem to have?

[055166k]

Yup, judge me on what I do and not what I look like; besides, if I buy the clothes then I'll make the choice. Good point about the Supervisor promotion....I can't let you see the list of successful applicants yet, it will be held under lock and key until after the selection workshop or test centre or whateverthisyearsbuzzwordisfor promotion board has taken place.....something to do with due [boring] process or something, but the result will surprise you.

[ebenezer]

ebenezer - HUMBUG! Gotta love the pressed chinos suggestion though. Anyone for 80's throwback day?

LTP - thanks for your objective and helpful input: not quite sure how a rant about Local Area Supervisors can be connected to ATCO's attire, but...

BTW any reason for using americanisms in your postings ("gotta") - unless you're from the far side of the Pond of course.

Like chinos, such affectations are definitely dated didn't you know...?

:hmm:

[niknak]

dress code?

OK, occassionally I've worn a shirt and tie, but never a dress...

[clicker]

Well there almost was one at Heathrow many years ago.

Pink Floyd had one pink plastic pig tied up at Battersea Power station for a publicity shot for an album.

It broke loose and drifted around for some time over s/e England. If the wind had been the other way an approach to Heathrow was well on the cards.

http://www.brain-damage.co.uk/general/ppj77.html

[andrijander]

I think I lost the pic now....was it dressed with a tie or with jeans? Just to picture him on a side of the debate -not just flying over the golden gate-....anyway, if it's flying chances are it's a pilot, not an atco -no, I don't think all aircrew are pink and smelly-.

Pierre arg: but that's the thing, when you work at a bank there are already established dress codes. Unlike in an ops room/tower.

I like the speedos idea...do they sell them in thong version?

[FLCH]

I remember flying out over the UK to the Oceanic boundary, a couple of years ago, and a "Reach" (US military) flight was on our frequency an asked the controller if he had a Uniform, ( UHF frequency), the controller said no we don't wear uniforms ...what are you wearing? ... a flight suit , came the reply, then I had to butt in and say, well at least you don't have to dress like lion tamers like us....

[PA7]

I would be quite happy if we had to wear a shirt n tie to work provided they compensated us with an extra 50k a year.

[ILS 119.5]

Try a visit to NERC (formerly LATCC) on new years eve to see the dress code!!