So what's up at Polar? (Merged again & again)

[DHC2 Driver]

Hey Tiger guy,
The comments by the vice chair were posted in Atlas Pilots VARS message and are for no one else's ears except Atlas pilots. Additionally, they were in response to Bobbbbb's sending a letter to 160 Atlas pilots calling them scabs and notifying them that he (and one assumes the rest of the polaroids) are taking action to have them thrown out of the union for being scabs. I would say your leadership is as much a disgrace to the union - maybe more - as it seems to me that no less than the ALPA national President has said, many times, publicly, that there were no Atlas scabs; and in fact if it weren't for the Atlas guys support, the ill advised and ill timed Polar strike would have gotten you all fired.

Face it, you were locked out - no polar planes flew, even with management pilots. You could not access your voice mail nor even call the company. In fact if it weren't for a certain Atlas FE giving you his codes to AIMS, you would not have been able to even tell when an Atlas plane was airborne. All the while your leadership was making side deals with management to keep their jobs, and lying to the MEC's of other airlines while the rest of you specifically targeted hotels with your gutless picketing. I am not sure the last time I saw a hotelier fly an airplane. If you were real men and unionists you would have put up a decent picket line and manned it like you should have.

Once again, this was a polaroid strike and no Atlas pilot flew a polar airplane nor a polar callsign nor even had a polar flight plan. There MAY (just MAY mind you) have been some polar cargo on Atlas airplanes just as their MAY have been some polar cargo on NWA, FedEx, and UPS. I can't remember the last time I was in the lower cargo compartment to inspect cargo but it was probably ...NEVER. It is pretty hard (and unreasonable) as well to inspect several thousand waybills during a one hour turn in ANC, or in the last five minutes from waybill deliver to engine start in PVG or ICN. So I can understand how a few pallets of cargo MIGHT have slipped through. It still doesn't make an Atlas pilot a scab though. Ask a UPS or FedEx pilot - they never even looked for your stuff.

So how in the heck would an Altas pilot REALLY know if he had Polar cargo onboard - just like how would a NWA pilot know he had Mesaba passengers on board. No matter how the polaroids and their psychotic leadership wish it, THERE WERE NO ATLAS SCABS.

You guys need serious help at the leadership level. I suggest that a good faith gesture would be to start a recall vote of Bobbbb and his cronies from class. If you don't it is liable to cost you all some serious moola.

[CR2]

Checking waybills is a waste of time anyway. All you have to do is cut a new one with whichever company logo is in favour. Old one goes into an envelope and is stapled onto the back.

[mercpc9]

Polar has always been at best a fair weather friend to the Atlas membership despite the Atlas union helping them out many many times over.

Here is a link to the MP3's and text of some of the more germane items:

Click Here to the Page I might Update with MP3's, and text documents (http://pws.prserv.net/usinet.cpt747)

Just a recap for the short term memory at Polar.
Screwing up the "Alliance Agreement".
Voting in a 6 month extension to their contract thus reducing leverage in negotiations with Atlas.
No support on Atlas pickets (except two one in MIA and one in Purchase)
Accepted 4 Atlas A/C while Atlas furloughed 170 during negotiations.
Not accepting any furloughed Atlas pilots.
Polar Negotiating Committee Chairman changes language of a crossover agreement during this time to "bottom of the list for Atlas" instead of agreed upon date of hire between MEC's.
Of course, 15 minutes prior to an Atlas strike the Polar MEC requests relief from the agreed upon struck work rules to fly 5 of our A/C and ACMI contracts (China Airlines Contracts).
Atlas caves due to Polar's willingness to fly our struck work.
Polar in final phases of negotiations finds out 4 A/C originally Atlas are going back to Atlas. We told that would happen when they got them from us originally.
Polar MEC Requests Atlas MEC to violate their contract that any city pairs operated by Polar and those original Atlas aircraft are struck work despite Polar's willingness to fly them at the cost of Atlas jobs earlier.
Strike goes down and Polar gets ticked that we fly our normal ACMI (non-Polar flights).
Polar MEC labels anyone flying at Atlas as a scab despite it being a different company just like UPS, DHL, FedEx, and NWA flying seperate ACMI flights from Polar.
Atlas holds a sympathy strike in ANC and MIA and is soon ordered to return to work by Courts.
Polar MEC starts another back door campaign calling Atlas crews "SCABS". Verified via other ALPA councils.
Atlas crewmembers go without pay when refusing to go to work under CBA.
Polar MEC says the Court order is a lie.
Due to repeated violations Polar is ejected from ANC airport with picketing permit revoked.
Harrasment of Atlas crews continue and no other pilot groups where harrassed despite other airlines accepting Polar cargo.It goes on but I'm tired.

[Intruder]

I'm having trouble trying to figure out how another airline can fly "Polar cargo" when Polar isn't flying...

IIRC, Polar is a scheduled service. They "sell" space on their airplanes to freight forwarders, and maybe other similar customers. There is no "Polar cargo" until that cargo is consigned to Polar for shipment. If Polar isn't flying because of a strike, a sane freight forwarder will simply consign his freight to another airline rather than consign it to Polar and risk it sitting on the ground.

Am I missing something here?

[trashhauler]

Hey Whaledriver, Wanna bet? Sporty's makes a great hand held! Worked fine for me.

[Heilhaavir]

Intruder, you are totally correct and same goes for any ACMI carrier, the freight they carry is their customer's freight. In the same way if any ACMI carrier goes on strike, their customer gives it to someone else. Or again with a pax carrier, if that carrier goes on strike the passengers just buy a ticket on another carrier. So much for leverage........
An easy example that happened a few years ago to a friend in MIA. His company imports clothes from Europe. His French wholesaler uses Air France. When the latter went on strike (pretty common thing over there hehehe) he rebooked on Fedex, lost a few days yes, but still made it on time for his customers. That was not Air France freight but HIS freight........ such is life, but some have a hard time understanding it.

[MetAl]

All I needed was my portable radio to listen to the "Polar" call signs on departure, and the ones that changed call signs in flight, to know that something was up. And, a few with long range lenses got another bunch.
So you got changing callsigns? That, IMHO, seems highly doubtful.
But I'm really, really curious about your line about the long range lenses and what kind of "bunch" they got. Just what did they get?
Photos of planes changing paint jobs in flight?

[Ct.Yankee]

I did make a comment a few months ago in reference to the polar mec caving into the aawh vp and accepting a contract that was not worth the so-called solidarity of the polar crew force.
First of all,as an American of Polish heritage, I resent the polar mec, ever using reference to solidarity. Hey, Mr.Caputo and many of us at Atlas walked a picket line in winter, spring, summer, etc., with only unemployment checks to keep us going, because our alpa brothers were getting tired of paying strike benefits. But that was 1989, I know, you have to let go!
Ninety-nine (99) per cent of Atlas crews, both line and management support what John accurately stated in his voicemail.
The polar mec caved and let down the real polar crews, and is still trying to
b___s___ all of us, and keep the animosity going, only for their own benefit!

[jumbojet1159]

Good Evening Crewmembers, this is MEC Chairman Bobb Henderson with a VARS message for January 26, 2006.

Crewmembers, your MEC was very disappointed to hear Atlas MEC Vice Chairman John Caputo’s January 13 VARS message. That message was rife with distortions and, in some cases, outright falsehoods. You can judge for yourselves whether this rant is worthy of a professional airman and the sort of communication that one union member should put out concerning fellow union members. It would be possible to prepare a lengthy response refuting point by point the unfounded accusations in Mr. Caputo’s message. For the present, however, your MEC has chosen not to engage in a public “he said/she said” argument with another pilot. To do so would be unproductive and counter to your interests.

We all acknowledge that the relationship between the Atlas and Polar crewmember groups has been very strained since we were acquired by Atlas Worldwide Holdings in 2001. These difficulties persist to this day. We must also never forget, however, that we face a common enemy, a hostile management that attempts to provoke conflict between the two crewmember groups as a means of driving down the pay and work rules of both. We cannot permit management’s “divide and conquer” strategy to succeed. For better or worse, as long as our management goes forward with its plan to merge Atlas and Polar, we must exert every effort to build and preserve a united front in the upcoming negotiations.

On Tuesday, January 24, I appeared before the ALPA Executive Council. I told the council that the Polar crewmember group believes it is critical to find a process for airing and resolving once and for all the animosities between our two crewmember groups. I am pleased to report that the Executive Council and the national officers agreed and are now actively at work setting up such a process.

To demonstrate our good faith commitment to pursue a positive and durable working relationship with our fellow crewmembers at Atlas Worldwide Holdings, we will attempt to maintain a professional and positive tone in our communications with you. Our responsibility to you to seek the best possible outcome in the pending merger process demands no less.

PAC MEC Chairman
Bobb Henderson

[turrbntrip]

Looks like Mr. Erickson's 'job is done' at Polar, re company release today...headed for 'greener pastures'.

Wonder who will be next in line for the job? Cato?

TT

[WhaleDriver]

Looks like Mr. Erickson's 'job is done' at Polar, re company release today...headed for 'greener pastures'.
Wonder who will be next in line for the job? Cato?
TT

God save us all................I hope not.

[turrbntrip]

Agreed, hope not. Stranger things have happened, though!

We live in interesting times.

TT

[Tiger Guy]

DHC2 Driver I would respectful suggest that some of you and especially Mr. Caputo read and digest the ALPA Pilots Code of Ethics.

[mercpc9]

DHC2 Driver I would respectful suggest that some of you and especially Mr. Caputo read and digest the ALPA Pilots Code of Ethics.
For the Polar MEC to read.

http://pws.prserv.net/usinet.cpt747/ethics1.jpg

While the Polar MEC doesn't make any controversial VARS messages, they DO not miss opportunities to do so in the surroundings of their peers and other airline crews. That can be proved with just the ALPA national staff let alone the MEC at two other airlines.

I believe Caputo's message was just a reaction, a truthfull reaction, to the Polar MEC continuous under the table/back room attacks on the Atlas crews. They won't contest it because there are too many third party people that can verify Caputo's VARS. I'm just a little ticked off that ALPA national didn't step up and squash the attacks by Polar in it's infancy instead of empty warnings.

Referenced items (MP'3, Docs) located on THIS WEB PAGE (http://pws.prserv.net/usinet.cpt747)

[bearfacts]

It was very disappointing to hear Atlas Air MEC Vice Chairman John Caputo’s, January 13th VAR’s message. It was deceitful and inflammatory to say the least. Usually it is best to ignore such obvious, self-serving rants. However, in this case some of the more egregious falsehoods must be addressed.


Mr. Caputo states that the Polar MEC advised the Atlas MEC they intended to file Article 8 charges against 160 Atlas crewmembers at last week Washington DC meeting. Nothing could be further from the truth. In the first place, the Polar MEC did not file any charges against anyone. Second, any information in that regard that the Atlas MEC obtained at that meeting had to have come from someone at ALPA National. The fact remains the Polar MEC signed a Return to Work Agreement and agreed “not to instigate any discipline, harassment, retaliation, recrimination or other reprisals against any Atlas Air Crewmember as a result of any work the Atlas Air Crewmember may have performed for Atlas Air, Inc during the strike”, The Polar MEC has completely and totally honored that agreement in both fact and spirit.
Mr. Caputo states that the Polar Strike Chairman advised the ALPA Executive Council that no Atlas pilot was a scab. Again, nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, the PAC Strike Chairman informed them of just the opposite and strongly recommended to the Council that they get out in front of the Strike Breaker issue.
Mr. Caputo states that the Polar MEC Chairman caved into management 36 hours into the cooling off period. This is one of his more baffling deceits. As each and every one of you know, no one on the Polar side caved-in to management and significant gains for an 18 month CBA extension were achieved. In fact, the only “caving-in” throughout the entire process was the Atlas MEC’s support and leadership, which will end up costing Atlas crewmembers in future increases in work rules and wages.
Mr. Caputo went on to rant about TRO’s, Federal Judges, ALPA staff and other ALPA carriers, all being lied about or to by the Polar MEC Chairman. This is another one of his more baffling deceits, and an obvious attempt to divert attention away from the true facts. The facts are that the Executive Council, ALPA staff, and other ALPA carriers were all extremely dismayed at the fact that Atlas crews were not only walking through legal Polar picket lines, but in many cases taunting Polar picketers, stating that Polar was history and all Polar flying would now be theirs. And the Federal Judge, in fact, upheld the Atlas crewmembers CBA right to refuse to cross a legal picket line.The failure was the Atlas MECs leadership and the fact that Atlas crewmembers were left alone to make decisions with little or no direction from the Atlas MEC and now face article 8 charges. The Atlas MEC hotline was unanswered and their voice mail box was full for much of the strike. Had Atlas crewmembers been given more guidance from their MEC, it is believed that many more of the Atlas crewmembers would have been inclined to make the correct choice.

Mr. Caputo’s most egregious deceit is when he goes so far as to suggest that the Polar crewmembers openly volunteered to scab Atlas at the end of their cooling off in 2002. Mr. Caputo must believe that if he can get people to believe such a deceit it would somehow justify the Atlas MECs actions both then and now.
Again the facts are, in the final hours of the Atlas cooling off period NO Polar crewmember openly volunteered to SCAB Atlas. To the contrary, the previous PAC MEC got a commitment from then Polar management, (VP Flt Ops Lee Steele, DO Rand Walters, and CP Dan Wells) that Polar would not participate in any flying for Atlas should they go on strike. The fact is, Polar was barely able to maintain the Polar scheduled flying with the staffing levels at that time. Furthermore, Polar management stated that no Polar crewmember would be disciplined for refusing to cross an Atlas picket line. Unlike Atlas, the Polar crewmembers and MEC enjoyed a positive relationship with Polar Flight Operations Management and CEO Jim Jenson. In fact, Polar Flight Operations Management and the previous PAC MEC agreed and did have representatives stationed inside crew scheduling 24/7 to insure that no Polar crews or aircraft would be involved in any Atlas flying should an Atlas strike occur, furthermore they instructed their crews in their membership message dated June 26th 2002, two days prior to the Atlas strike, “If you encounter an Atlas picket line while attempting to perform your duties, call a member of the MEC immediately, and do not proceed further.” All of the above information was given to the Atlas MEC in the weeks prior to their deadline.
AAWW did lease three aircraft to Polar during 2002 all of which had been parked in the desert for some time due to Atlas Air’s declining business throughout 2001 and 2002. These aircraft were leased to Polar to replace old 100’s that were retiring. Of course, Atlas management was threatening to move more aircraft as every management in the history of strikes has done and this threat obviously affected the Atlas MEC’s decision making in the final hours of their negotiations.
Again unlike Atlas, the Polar crewmembers struck even after four aircraft they had been operating for the past year were transferred to Atlas, probationary crewmembers were fired and numerous crewmembers were sent furlough notices. Bottom line, PAC crewmembers struck and stood up to management. They did not cave in the final hour as the Atlas MEC did. The Polar MEC did not sign and push for ratification a TA that resulted in one of the worst contracts for work rules and quality of life in the cargo industry, as did the Atlas MEC.

Mr. Caputo’s statement that the PAC MEC somehow screwed up the Polar Alliance Arbitration and his implication that it had a negative effect on the Atlas crewmembers is absurd. While it is certainly believed that the Arbitrator made a bad decision, it has hardly had a negative effect on Atlas crewmembers, as they have enjoyed no furloughs, premium flying, numerous captain upgrades and recent hiring all due to Polar flying being done on the bases of that decision.
Mr. Caputo again deceitfully states that “ALPA National has made it clear time and again to Polar that they were on thin ice and should not be stupid and attack you”. Once again, nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, the Polar MEC was ensured of just the opposite. Bruce York, Head of Representation at ALPA National worked closely with the PAC MEC putting together the Return-To-Work Agreement and made it very clear that the MEC’s agreement not to instigate any charges against Atlas crewmembers in no way would hinder or prevent any other Polar crewmember from exercising their rights under the ALPA By-Laws to bring Section 8 charges against Atlas crewmembers.The fact is, there is little dispute that Atlas crewmembers crossed legal Polar picket lines, the dispute is whether it constituted Strike Breaking. The Polar crewmembers that brought the Section 8 charges had every right to do so under ALPA By-Laws and the Return-To-Work Agreement. And those same ALPA By-Laws allow for a hearing so both the accused and the accuser can present their side to a neutral board who will decide the outcome.
It is shameful that rather than let the above, structured and somewhat private, Section 8 process take place, the Atlas MEC would rather put out deceitful and inflammatory VARs messages and threaten very public civil suits which would have to be met with like kind. Ironically, during and just after the Polar strike, Atlas MEC Chairman Dave Bourne stated several times that he personally would file Section 8 charges against any Atlas crewmember that crossed a Polar picket line. It is suspected, the reason the Atlas MEC is now fighting so hard against any hearings is that they are afraid of being implicated in any testimony leading to possible subsequent charges against them.

The PAC MEC has no control over the Section 8 charges that have been filed against certain Atlas crewmembers by Polar crewmembers. That is the Polar crewmembers right under the ALPA By-Laws and it is a defined and orderly process to settle that dispute. The Polar MEC did not instigate those charges nor do they have the authority to stop those charges. It would seem the best course of action is to let the process continue so both parties can present their side and the issue can be put to rest rather than sit around simmering and festering.

In an attempt to bring to an end once and for all these false accusations by the Atlas MEC that has continued to divide the pilot groups for years the PAC MEC addressed the ALPA Executive Council and requested they convene a summit of all involved. In other words, get all the liars in the same room, present verifiable facts, and get to the truth. A process that is currently being challenged by the Atlas MEC.

The fact is, the current Atlas MEC had problems working with the previous Atlas MEC, the previous PAC MEC, their previous contract administrator and now the current PAC MEC...a definite pattern.

It is time for a change!

[GoodbyePolar]

The fact remains the Polar MEC signed a Return to Work Agreement and agreed “not to instigate any discipline, harassment, retaliation, recrimination or other reprisals against any Atlas Air Crewmember as a result of any work the Atlas Air Crewmember may have performed for Atlas Air, Inc during the strike”, The Polar MEC has completely and totally honored that agreement in both fact and spirit

The Polar MEC is the most dishonest council in ALPA history. Do you think anyone in the world really believes that the Polar MEC isn't behind the filing of Article 8 charges? The formation of the Strike Breakers Committee (SBC) and the action they took was approved at a local council meeting. The SBC received council funds to pay for their work. The SBC used the Polar MEC mailing address when they sent letters to 160 Atlas crewmembers.

The sad part is that the SBC has so little factual evidence of wrongdoing on the part of Atlas crewmembers that it now looks like charges may be brought against only one individual. And that evidence is shaky!

And no matter how strongly you may feel otherwise, your strike did fail. You came groveling back to the negotiating table and accepted the same offer that was on the table before the strike!

It's also quite funny that the Polar MEC claimed to take the high road when they issued their most recent VARS. It was immediately followed by the release of their lap dogs to do all the lying and name calling anonymously. You guys must be really bitter about your failed strike to stoop this low

[turrbntrip]

As usual, 'Goodbye Polar' (that you, JC?) didn't refute a single thing in 'Bearfacts''s post- other than to bleat ad hominem attacks and rant about a 'failed' strike, along with plenty of groundless 'charges' about who is filing charges.

Pretty humorous, 'Goodbye', to scream 'dishonesty' when you yourself spout the same.
And further, I submit that it is YOU that comes off as sounding pathetically bitter.


TT

[mercpc9]

Bearfacts,

You are reflective of a large majority of your peers. Put in a dark shed and fed fertilizer from a cow.

I have to commend the Polar MEC on how they have constructively developed a cult following within your ranks. There is no hope for you. Someone has to care enough about you to intercede and attempt your rehabilitation back to reality. Go somewhere for deprogramming.

You chant over and over again the same rhetoric passed on by your Polar MEC without any proof. No third party verification, documents or otherwise. That's because you have none. There is none to support your rants. Your points have been countered before your one posting. Read the thread. Don't let the Polar MEC read the thread to you. We know what that leads to.

I'll stand by my statements that I have made, the referenced third party people mentioned before, the many others not mentioned, the violated agreements, emails, and verifying documents published and otherwise.

Polar and Atlas would have been a powerfull force for management to contend with, but Polar chose to look out for themselves grabbing that dangled carrot time and again at Atlas crewmembers expense. Over and over again.

Do I expect that to change? NO!

[GoodbyePolar]

And further, I submit that it is YOU that comes off as sounding pathetically bitter. TT

I'm not bitter, I'm amused. Everything is going great for our side. Watching your council self-destruct has been very entertaining.

Our seniority list hasn't yet been polluted with Polar crews, and hopefully it never will be. So we're way ahead in the game.

If you guys are so happy about your contract extension, why would you file baseless charges against 160 Atlas crews? You know you can't win and taking the action you have only exposes you for what you really are: BITTER LITTLE BOYS!

[turrbntrip]

-Goodbye...

You certainly didn't sound too amused to me, whelp. Why is it you lot get so panicky when rumors of a PAC sale surface?

And why is it that when one looks at 'Aviation Week''s annual 'Source Book' list of AIRLINES, Atlas isn't even listed- but PAC is shown as grossing over $1.4 Billion in 2004?

Seems to me that you'd need an AIRLINE first, before your 'seniority' list can be 'polluted' with PAC pilots.

Give it a rest, Cato. Lorenzo's not even IN the airline biz any more.

TT

[GoodbyePolar]

You certainly didn't sound too amused to me, whelp. Why is it you lot get so panicky when rumors of a PAC sale surface?

Panicky??? Giddy is more like it. The sale of Polar would be the best thing in the world for both pilot groups. The buyer would only want the planes, so Polar crews would be unemployed. That would be great news for the union, Atlas crews and the industry as a whole!

And why is it that when one looks at 'Aviation Week''s annual 'Source Book' list of AIRLINES, Atlas isn't even listed- but PAC is shown as grossing over $1.4 Billion in 2004? Seems to me that you'd need an AIRLINE first, before your 'seniority' list can be 'polluted' with PAC pilots.

If ignorance were golden, you'd be quite wealthy. Atlas isn't an airline! We are an ACMI carrier. We fly on behalf of other airlines. Which means our "gross" isn't affected by fuel purchases. Polar, on the other hand, is an airline and the cost of their fuel comes directly out of their "gross". So trying to compare the gross of Atlas with the gross of Polar without knowing all the facts only makes you look foolish. But I am happy that someone from the Polar MEC is now posting here, TT.

[turrbntrip]

So sorry, plebian, I'm not a PAC MEC officer, much as you'd like that to be. My bottomless opinion of you is entirely my own.

Truly, you are the one worried about the future.

Oh, you can use the ACMI smoke and mirrors all you like-and if you don't think fuel prices will affect the GTI side as well, put down the crack pipe- but sooner or later airlines like Dynasty all figure out that they can do it a hell of a lot better, and cheaper, than wasting money on long term wet-leasing and thus buying $40,000,000.00 BBJs for AAWH 'management'.

Rather a shame that you no longer have the crony networks and cheap cash that Chowdry brought to the table...you sank so far after he got burgered, you had to use PAC's routes and cash flow to get out of bankruptcy.

No more cheap Pakistani money for you, and PAC cash flow and China routes once Polar is gone (I still don't believe it will be sold, unless at an astronomical premium, since without Chowdry and PAC, what IS AAWH? Not much, and that is why you're wetting the bed).

Sleep tight!

TT

[mercpc9]

So sorry, plebian, I'm not a PAC MEC officer, much as you'd like that to be. My bottomless opinion of you is entirely my own.

Truly, you are the one worried about the future.

Oh, you can use the ACMI smoke and mirrors all you like-and if you don't think fuel prices will affect the GTI side as well, put down the crack pipe- but sooner or later airlines like Dynasty all figure out that they can do it a hell of a lot better, and cheaper, than wasting money on long term wet-leasing and thus buying $40,000,000.00 BBJs for AAWH 'management'.

Rather a shame that you no longer have the crony networks and cheap cash that Chowdry brought to the table...you sank so far after he got burgered, you had to use PAC's routes and cash flow to get out of bankruptcy.

No more cheap Pakistani money for you, and PAC cash flow and China routes once Polar is gone (I still don't believe it will be sold, unless at an astronomical premium, since without Chowdry and PAC, what IS AAWH? Not much, and that is why you're wetting the bed).

Sleep tight!

TT
Let's see:

We buy Polar right before they go chapter 7. We drag them up from it and now they know how to run the world. Actually, Polar was such a significant drain, we ended up in ch. 11 together with Polar owing 140 million plus @$10 million a month after filing to Atlas. Wow, what profitable routes! That was even after Mr. Cato moved four Atlas aircraft and the associated flying over to Polar furloughing 170 at Atlas as punishment during our negotiations.

You are a piece of work.

If reality ever sets in, please call your local unemployment office when the sell off of Polar happens. Do not bother calling any offices I have been dealing with keeping Atlas Pilots employed while Polar crews flew Atlas aircraft at Atlas crewmembers expense. Your reputations have preceeded you.

FYPOS

[trashhauler]

Hey saying goodbye to us may be a bit premature. Let's see, Atlas flies 60% of our trips using us as an ACMI customer. According to maintenance, 7 aircraft are dedicated just to Polar flying. We really do not get the good trips, you are using them. Hey, I don't mind sitting at home getting paid because, although we lost the arbitration as an alliance, we also cannot be furloughed if Atlas is flying any of Poalr's trips. I like that.
As to caving, a study was done by one of our Captains, and using the settlement against what I would have made without a settlement, guess what, we settled on a 10.5% raise, but with the addition goodies it worked out to 26% for me. Not bad in my book.
Finally, if Polar is sold to United or whoever, where do you think those trips you so graciously do for us will go? Away that is what. Then what will Atlas do. 60% is a pot full of work my friend.
I do know one thing though, this is going to be a very interesting two months!!

[WhaleDriver]

Hey saying goodbye to us may be a bit premature. Let's see, Atlas flies 60% of our trips using us as an ACMI customer. According to maintenance, 7 aircraft are dedicated just to Polar flying. We really do not get the good trips, you are using them. Hey, I don't mind sitting at home getting paid because, although we lost the arbitration as an alliance, we also cannot be furloughed if Atlas is flying any of Poalr's trips. I like that.
As to caving, a study was done by one of our Captains, and using the settlement against what I would have made without a settlement, guess what, we settled on a 10.5% raise, but with the addition goodies it worked out to 26% for me. Not bad in my book.
Finally, if Polar is sold to United or whoever, where do you think those trips you so graciously do for us will go? Away that is what. Then what will Atlas do. 60% is a pot full of work my friend.
I do know one thing though, this is going to be a very interesting two months!!

Trash,
You might want to take a look at your scope clause again. I have. They will not be furloughing you as a result of the alliance flying. It will be as a result of your planes being sold, hence, they can furlough. Read the words. That will determine the results, not what you thought it meant, or what you’re being told by your MEC.

There are two Atlas planes flying only Polar flights full time. Not even close to 60%. Some planes are coming thru the Middle East and picking up Polar flights on the back side of Atlas Military flights. Those are helping Polar numbers because it’s not flying empty from the USA to ICN or HKG to pick up the trip. It’s being paid to operate to ICN/HKG by the military.

It doesn't take a genius to look at the AAWH schedule on Globalnet and figure this out. Certainly, I would believe a maintenance guy before I would trust the actual schedule.

[turrbntrip]

Let's see:

We buy Polar right before they go chapter 7. We drag them up from it and now they know how to run the world. Actually, Polar was such a significant drain, we ended up in ch. 11 together with Polar owing 140 million plus @$10 million a month after filing to Atlas. Wow, what profitable routes! That was even after Mr. Cato moved four Atlas aircraft and the associated flying over to Polar furloughing 170 at Atlas as punishment during our negotiations.

You are a piece of work.

If reality ever sets in, please call your local unemployment office when the sell off of Polar happens. Do not bother calling any offices I have been dealing with keeping Atlas Pilots employed while Polar crews flew Atlas aircraft at Atlas crewmembers expense. Your reputations have preceeded you.

FYPOS


ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ


TT

[mercpc9]

They will not be furloughing you as a result of the alliance flying. It will be as a result of your planes being sold, hence, they can furlough. Read the words. That will determine the results, not what you thought it meant, or what you’re being told by your MEC.
I'll have to agree with WhaleDriver. Atlas Management works that way. For example, Atlas management (VP Jim Matheny at the time) published a letter saying that no Atlas Pilot would ever suffer from a furlough or loss due to the formation of AACS in STN. Soon afterwards, Atlas Management began furloughing Atlas mainline crews and hiring the same number of AACS (crew leasing) crews saying, "It was a result of the economy and not because of the formation of AACS." Of course, we were an uncontracted labor union under negotiations with Atlas management with little or no rights at that time under the RLA.

Good luck on enforcing your contract.

On another note, what kind of spin was put on the "Union Family Counciling between Polar and Atlas" on the Polar side. As I understand it, the third party guy from the AFL-CIO Secretary Treasurer Tom Donahue mediated the session? Heard that Polar MEC Chairman Bobb Henderson wanted to get all the liars in the same room to clear the air. Sounds like he didn't have to go to Herndon for that. He could have had a Polar MEC/Negotiating committee meeting to cover it from what I heard.

What was put out on the Polar side of the equation under the table and in the back room to the Polar crew force?

If anyone gets a copy of Mr. Donahue's report please send me a copy.

There is nothing like having third party verification of facts and it sounds like Atlas did.

[turrbntrip]

Merc P9 sez:

"If anyone gets a copy of Mr. Donahue's report please send me a copy.

There is nothing like having third party verification of facts and it sounds like Atlas did."


HAHAHAHA

Keep right on dreamin' Merc!


TT

[DHC2 Driver]

So does your posting of proprietary company information indicate that Atlas aircraft are operating 60% of POLAR trips or that 60% of their trips are Polaroid.

Typical 'roid pilot misinformation. You need to post all of the Altas trips to find out the percentage that is actually flown for the 'roids. I think you will find that the 10% number is fairly correct. Those trips you posted which are 'roid trips, are actually a fair 10% of what Atlas crews are flying for the month.

SO WHAT IS YOUR POINT?

I actually did research it and it looks like two aircraft are doing 'roid-work pretty much consistantly and all the others you posted are either on the front side or back side of ad-hoc and mother MAC stuff. 7 aircraft out of, what, 29 - and five of those have just a few trips for the whole MONTH. Wow you are a statistical genius!

Here is hoping that you have a bunch-o-money stashed as we will enjoy taking it from you in the lawsuit.

[Willit Run]

You Atlas and Polar folks are beating your heads against the wall and generally making yourselves look rather foolish.

Please try and represent your country and companies with a bit more pride.

[trashhauler]

Oh we do respect Polar, it is the other ex-military mind-set we don't trust.
First they "buy us" for next to nothing, gives away five of our paid for aircraft of which went to our competitor to beat us over the head with, (still is and making a lot of money doing it),then a $20,000,000 loan that was given to Atlas the December prior to the sale goes away, they try to take our Japan trips and some China trips and were thwarted by the respective governments when they were caught. We also found, from the ground handlers from Prestwick and Korea that Atlas deliberately delays Polar flights (why I have no idea; I assume to make us look bad). No wonder we look to the other side with a jaundiced eye!!

[captjns]

I'm curious... how does this whole thing effect the world or other pilots. Polar and Atlas... talk or cry amongst yourselves.:{

[Po Boy]

Yawn..................Need a Mod to close this thread!

[captjns]

Yawn..................Need a Mod to close this thread!

I second the motion.

[mercpc9]

Merc P9 sez:

"If anyone gets a copy of Mr. Donahue's report please send me a copy.

There is nothing like having third party verification of facts and it sounds like Atlas did."


HAHAHAHA

Keep right on dreamin' Merc!


TT

I don't have to dream. Just want it in print for the masses outside the Polar/Atlas feud that Polar has been reaching out for to trash Atlas pilots. I already know trying to prove otherwise to the Polar crews would require deprogramming of them first. Personally, I'd preferred to keep our fighting to ourselves, but the Polar MEC used it's underground to include other councils, non-ALPA carriers, and web sites like this one.

I find it funny that the list of the so called 60% of Polar flying is done by Atlas listed above is flying in a large part to South America which were originally Atlas routes. They were wet leased to Polar. They may now be transferred to Polar. Ooops, you forgot that!

While I don't have the the mediators written results of the Polar/Atlas "counseling" meeting, I did score a copy of the Atlas union presentation to the ALPA Executive Board Meeting. It covers the timeline of what evolved between Polar and Atlas. The good and bad.

All Polar has ever done is use it's underground to bad mouth the Atlas pilots and demean ALPA. Word of mouth from a brainwashed cadre of Polar union chairmen is sooo much better and harder to sue against than a standup fight.

In Shockwave (Shockwave plugin required. Click on each image to go to next slide) (http://home.comcast.net/%7Ecpt747/Jan24_2006PresentationtoALPAExecutiveCouncil.swf)
Click on each frame to go to the next slide.


In Microsoft Power Point (http://home.comcast.net/%7Ecpt747/Jan24_2006PresentationtoALPAExecutiveCouncil.ppt)

Has Polar ever provided a document of any kind other than an unauthorized and illegal scab list from an anonymous poster to back up their postion other than the above hand picked and truly uninformative schedule?

I find it funny that the list of the so called 60% of Polar flying is done by Atlas listed above is flying in a large part to South America which were originally Atlas routes. They were wet leased to Polar. They may now be transferred to Polar. Ooops, you forgot that!


merc

[CR2]

Per your request.