Another Air Law Question

[beerdrinker]

You are Intrument Rated

1. You are flying on a VFR flight plan in Class G airspace and become IMC.

2. You are flying with no flight plan in Class G airspace and become IMC.

What should you do?

[Flyin'Dutch']

Beer,

No difference whether or not you are on a FPL.

In class G you can just carry on regardless, you do not need a clearance etc.

You may want to talk to an ATSU for RIS/RAS and would need to contact the ATSU of your destination for an IAP unless you become VFR again.

[Justiciar]

You can and must file an airborn IFR flight plan if you are going to enter CAS or advisory airspace whilst still IMC. Then it will make a difference if you have an IR or IMC rating or neither.

[2Donkeys]

That "Airborn [sic] Flight Plan" will in effect, be filed for you when you call up the relevant Class D authority and ask for a transit. The Full ICAO flight plan is neither desired nor required

[bookworm]

You can and must file an airborn IFR flight plan if you are going to enter CAS or advisory airspace whilst still IMC.

An FPL is not required in "advisory" (presumably class F?) airspace unless you wish to participate in the advisory service -- in other words there's no compulsion to do so just because you're in IMC. It would, of course, be pretty daft not to participate if such a service is available.

To answer the original question, what you must do on entering IMC in class G is:

a) obey the quadrantal rule (30) and
b) obey the minimum height rule (29)

[Spitoon]

From a slightly different perspective, in either case you must follow the IFR.

[Final 3 Greens]

It depends whether you intended to become IMC in the first place.

- If so, continue

- If not, but you are comfortable with the transition, continue

- If you are not comfortable, do a 180 and regain VMC.

In this instance, practical airmanship is more important than the priviliges of the licence and the priomary responsibility of a pilot is to safeguard the aircraft and souls onboard.

[BEagle]

It depends on the national airspace regulations!

I can't imagine anyone 'flying on a VFR flight plan in Class G airspace' in the UK, for example......

[Final 3 Greens]

What about over mountainous terrain in the Scottish Highlands?

At least it gives the Sea Kings a rough idea where to start looking.

[average bloke]

1. climb to MSA asap, and then fly quadrantal rule
2. turn on pitot heat and any other equipment necessary
3. upgrade service to at least RIS
4. check OAT/surfaces to ensure no icing occuring
5. if you are planning on flying IMC without de-ice then ensure freezing level is above MSA. if unplanned then you need an MSA with temp above zero or you have a problem....

[beerdrinker]

Thanks for helpful replies everybody. I was trying to confirm opinions verbally gathered from other people.

BEagle. You will be on a VFR flight Plan if you have crossed an international boundary to get to the UK. And it is a good idea to file one if crossing water or inhospitable terrain.

[FlyingForFun]

F3G seems to be the only person to have mentioned that having an IMC rating or an IR does not mean that you will be comfortable flying in IMC. It might be that you are not current, or that your aircraft is not equipped for the flight.

Or it might be that you did not plan the flight with IMC in mind. I have an IR, I try to keep it reasonably current, and I often fly aircraft with suitable equipment for an IFR flight. But I get very uncomfortable being in IMC when I haven't specifically planned the flight with IMC in mind. My immediate actions would be exactly the same as if I didn't have an IMC rating or an IR - I would either do a 180-degree turn if I'd flown forwards into the cloud, or if (far more likely) I've climbed into cloud I would either continue climbing if I was below MSA, or descend if I was above MSA. I would be very unlikely to continue the flight in IMC.

(Granted, though, that this doesn't answer the original question, which related specifically to the air law aspects!)

FFF
-----------------

[englishal]

...or, as I do I plan to fly VFR but in my planning allow for the fact that I might have to go IFR....and then its not a problem.

Surely as an instrument pilot, you should cover all eventualities in your flight planning I would have thought......Then I'm comfortable whatever, and don't need to make emergency landings, 180° turns, spins through the cloud, panic....whatever.....;)

[IO540]

FFF

This was done to death here in a recent thread...

Surely, if you are

a) instrument qualified, and
b) instrument current, and
c) have a suitable aircraft, and
d) carry the UK approach plates

then it would be natural to plan EVERY flight with the IFR option, as in the UK (can go IFR anytime in Class G without a clearance, etc) it takes zero extra effort.

One has to navigate accurately anyway, to avoid CAS busts.

Otherwise, one cannot fly if there is any prospect of IMC, and that means flying becomes limited to a local burger run on a CAVOK day :O

[Squadgy]

I can't imagine anyone 'flying on a VFR flight plan in Class G airspace' in the UK, for example......


:confused:

I do this fairly often - for instance when flying over the Lake District or to the Isle of Man, mainly so that if I don't arrive then overdue action will be triggered.

[bookworm]

then it would be natural to plan EVERY flight with the IFR option, as in the UK (can go IFR anytime in Class G without a clearance, etc) it takes zero extra effort.

Well, there are good reasons for planning flights that can be conducted under VFR but not under IFR.

... where icing may be an issue in cloud
... where there are no suitable navaids (OK, that's dying as an excuse ;))
... where the destination has no IAP and a letdown is of higher risk than a VFR flight

I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't plan by preference to obey the IFR regardless of conditions, but there may be some circumstances in which the decision to enter IMC requires more than just an "ooh look, a cloud..."

[IO540]

I was going to add

0C below the MSA
no IAP at dest *and* possibility of IMC below MSA at dest

to my original list but didn't want to complicate matters :O

As regards navaids, there are many many places outside of the official DOC of any navaid. Which takes us back to yet another old discussion... given that IFR is permitted anywhere in UK airspace, GPS must be OK for sole navigation ;)

Time to run!