Newcastle Question

[Stampe]

Question for Newcastle ,approaching from the south on a very busy sunday with the ATIS declaring caution gliding and extensive cloud around 2500feet I declined to accept a RAS outside controlled airspace.I very much got the impression from then on of "a crinkly lipped service" and perhaps a punishment circuit didn,t feel you guys were on my side anymore.Most probably an extra 30 miles track which was fine though I hadn,t realised it would be so much extra.Normally at night and extreme ends of the day I,m happy to accept RAS outside but on this particular day didn,t think it was a good idea frankly Gliders scare me on days like that.Other airlines seemed to be doing the usual thing but as a still very active GA pilot I know just whats going on in the open FIR on nice weekends and the limited capability of radar on nontransponding lightweight craft.Lots of my colleagues have little feel for this sort of things nowadays.Your comments controllers please.

[10 DME ARC]

Stampe
I wasn’t at work on Sunday but I think you will find that the Sunderland Airshow was on in the Southeast corner of the CTR/A, so airspace would have been at a premium. As for your 30 extra track, well I am sorry but we ain’t got enough CAS to give you 30 extra!
The present CAS and P18 just do not mix, so we have a Airspace application in progress at the moment hopefully to be approved soon.
The glider issue, well we do have primary that can pick up gliders well and if the airspace to the SW had a lot of gliders in it, well we would be the first to take you over the top and downwind left for 07!

:)

[niknak]

Stampe,

please let us all know who you are so that in future we can part the skies in anticipation of never delaying the "great one", who must be number one at all times.
Fortunately, ignorant pilots like you are in the minority, the majority understand that if they are vectored a few extra miles, there's a very good reason for it, even if we don't have the time to give lengthy and in depth explanations for it.

[Widger]

NikNak don't be too hard on the guy. I know of at least one occaision when "professional pilots" have complained that they were being "moved out of the way" of other traffic under a RAS. As if RAS gave then some sort of priority against all other airspace users!

[Stampe]

Wow what a varied response to a question.I,ve not operated much into NCl since the new airway.In answer to 10ds question it was last sunday in a boeing from airways to the south after extensive vectoring on the airway onto 07 and I seem to remember I was taken over the O7 threshold at 5000ft above cloud then taken out to about 11 d downwind lefthand before being taken turned into the ILS.My management would much rather we remained in CAS in circumstances like this even if it costs extra time and fuel !! and as the owner of a light wooden aircraft I,m only to aware of how variable its radar signature can be!!.Just surprised how much extra distance I gained as I suppose mentally I,d expected to be cut in quite tight to remain within!!.Regards:ok:

[10 DME ARC]

Stampe
The gliding site takes up the whole Southwest of the CTR/A south of the river Tyne, up to 5000ft, they were here first!
NCL would have not been able to give you lower than FL60(lowest level P18) until CTR boundary to the south (5nm south), that would tally with 5000ft over 07 threshold, at this point the radar controller would most likely to have stopped P18 departures to get your decent! Other wise you would have been left at FL70 until north of airfield.
The CTA goes out to 11nm to the west so you would have been turned inside this to do a normal BA?? ILS pattern to 07!
I could go into a lot of other problems that may have sent you further to the East of NCL before turning downwind so it looks like you got off lightly and had a normal inside CAS vectored ILS to RW07!
Whilst like I said going out side CAS is your choice but no one will discriminate against you for not,100%!
CAS to meet P18 hopefully towards the end of year, anyone want to lobby their ops dept to lobby the CAA to hurry the process would be greatly appreciated!!
10D
:)

[PPRuNe Radar]

CAS to meet P18 hopefully towards the end of year, anyone want to lobby their ops dept to lobby the CAA to hurry the process would be greatly appreciated!!

Alas there is no 'hurrying' the process possible. The timescales are laid down in the Airspace Charter and the best that can be done for the quickest result is for the organisation applying for the airspace to get everything right first time, do the consultation without any objections coming along, and provide DAP with exactly all that is required in the charter.

Once the DAP part of the process starts, then the timescale is a fixed one. It's what happens before that which takes an age and DAP will rightly slope shoulders if you try to pin any of the delay in that period on them :ok:

[Stampe]

Thx 10d all is clear to me now and I,ll know what to expect in future and certainly won,t woryy about getting the energy/height off in future in similar circumstances.Don,t often fly the NCL routes nowadays and I was very surprised how busy the airfield has got.I,ve already discussed the situation with our management and am sure they would be delighted to lobby your case.I and they are very happy to operate only in CAS unless the circumstances are exactly right for vectoring outside.I guess pilots who only infrequently operate into NCL are not aware of how restricted you are from the SW in terms of descent.Perhaps when a crew elect to remain inside cas a simple statement of likely track mileswould keep them in the loop and enable them to fly most fuel and noise efficiently.I certainly wouldn,t regard such a statement as punishment after all I have declined the short cut.Thanks for the information.:ok:NB I don,t fly for Big Airways!!

[Charlie32]

Oh NO!!! Please not more CAS, GA will be orbitting around the Humber soon before entering the EGNT zone

[10 DME ARC]

Charlie
Newcastle has stuggled for years through lack of CAS, just look at the airprox's or airmiss's as they were called. It presently handles 5million pax's a year and has 85,000 a/c movements, mainly commercial. Its CAS is not that big and won't grow that much! GA has and will always be welcome!
:)

[neutron]

Went to a NATS presentation at the old Newcastle Aero Club some 3+ years ago regarding the upgrade of NORCA to airway, which went ahead. Newcastle ATC then showed us the proposed extension of the CTR/CTA to the west at this meeting.

Rumour has it that the CTR/CTA application was rejected initially due to insufficient traffic. Is that the case? Is this a second application for an extension?