Heading vs. RADAR heading

[Hufty]

I would be interested to know the difference between a heading and a radar heading if there is one? Often we get the command "fly heading" etc. but then "make your heading a radar heading".

I heard a frustrated controller dealing with a foreign crew a few weeks ago and he was trying to get them to acknowledge that their current heading was in fact a radar heading and it got me thinking about the difference.

Any info. would be helpful!

Hufty.

[Evil J]

Effectively, there is no difference. The term "radar" is generally only included to emphasise that you are no longer on your own navigation.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Never used the term myself (and never will!) but I believe it's to do with controllers wanting to ensure that the aircraft remains locked on a particular heading. Eg.. controller asks pilot his heading and tells him to make that a radar heading so the pilot doesn't change it.

QRX for more far knowledgeable responses.......

[cat man do]

Boy, has this issue been bashed around or what.

A heading is a heading is a heading. No differencec, just some ATC's are more pedantic than others and insist that there is a difference. I never use the term RADAR heading as I would have already radar identified the traffic and any use of headings thereafter can only be RADAR headings, what other means or determination is there other than utlilizing the radar to determine correct use of headings.

To summarize:

If you instruct an a/c to fly a heading then the expectation is for them to follow that instruction and to advise ATC if they are unable.
The a/c will then remain on that heading until advised, i.e. 'locked' on that heading.

:ok:

[Flobadob]

From the Mil point of view we never use the phraseology 'Radar Heading' because as cat man do has just stated - a heading is a heading!

If we give a pilot 'own nav' we will ask him to report steady when under RAS/RIS, just to give us a fighting chance. Hope that helps from the not so knowledgeable.

[Scott Voigt]

That's why we just use the term "fly heading". We have no nomenclature for "radar heading." Now if we are telling them the reason for the heading then we can say fly heading XXX this will be radar vectors to final.

regards

Scott

[DirtyPierre]

I don't believe it. I agree with all you guys. Is this a first, ATCs around the world agree on phraseology?

[Talkdownman]

The phraseology is, of course, 'continue heading' full stop, nothing else. Navigation control thus is transferred from the Pilot to the ATCO. The unnofficial phrase 'Radar heading' has crept in for emphasis because some pilots instructed to 'continue heading' have failed to do so, the aircraft has unexpectedly turned at the next waypoint (for whatever reason) and radar separation has been compromised. This may be due to mis-management of the autopilot, a lack of understanding of why ATC requires the heading to be continued, or simple forgetfulness. It is a pity that such emphasis of such an effective, simple phrase becomes necessary.

[2 sheds]

...and - there is no definition of the (frequently used) term "radar heading"!

[bekolblockage]

Oh please, don't start this one again .....:{

[Pierre Argh]

I think the term Radar heading came from the cockpit first... i.e it was the pilot's way of acknowledging that he was no longer navigating and was complying with the radar controllers request. ATCOs may have picked it up, which is often how phraseology "grows", thinking it was useful/steely/different. I just say "turn left/right heading...." (with an explanation if the request is likely to be unexpected)

[Evil J]

And, at the very distinct risk of repeating SO many earlier threads (but it hasnt stopped us so far) the term radar heading is only mentioned in MATS pt1 by the phrase "...report radar heading to (ARCU callsign) (frequency)" E (attach) page 11

it is nonetheless in there.

[wondering]

From a pilot point of view, I use the term 'radar heading' when instructed to change frequency and report that heading to the new controller. On the new freq, I say '........on radar heading XXX'. I just make sure the new controller knows that I am on a 'radar controlled heading' and not on a heading avoiding CBs (or whatever other reason there may be) Same token, I would say '........on heading XXX to avoid (build ups)' when avoiding build ups. Once a while some airplanes may be avoiding build ups and some may be on a controller assigned heading in the same sector. Since I am not always quite sure if the new controller knows what heading I am on, I just tell him. Imho, it´s just one more word and everyone is in the picture. Or do you, as controller, feel annoyed? Well, just my 2p.