Microlights on a JAA/PPL?

[italianjon]

Guys 'n' Gals,

Some Clarification needed...

Is it possible to hold a Microlight Rating on a Full JAA/PPL, LASORS seems to speak about Microlight ratings on a NPPL Only.

I would like to eventually go on and get instrument ratings et al, once I am earning enough. At the moment I can afford the license but SEP flying may be cost prohibitive.

I am thinking about, and here's where I need clarification if this is possible, to do an JAR/PPL with SEP; obtain a Microlight rating and fly micros for the time being.

Is this a reasonable route as I wish to take the license further? Also does time on a Microlight count towards the experience required for the CPL and other licences which require experience?

Thanks

J

[Whopity]

There is no such thing as a Microlight rating under JAR. If you hold a SEP Class rating then you can fly any single engined piston aeroplane of any weight that does not have a type rating. The microlight has a single engine with pistons so you can fly it on your SEP Class rating.

This was clarified in AIC 3/2004 White 92 after much confusion over non existant ratings.

Hours flown on microlight aeroplanes do not count towards SEP revalidation or towards the CPL.

As with any aeroplane that is substantially different, you should undergo familiarisation training before flying it solo, this is particularly important with weight shift microlight aeroplanes.

[gijoe]

Do not for one second, please, think that you will be able to jump out of a C152 and straight into a microlight.

You will kill yourself without proper differences training...

G

[Evil J]

Whopity- well i didn't know that-have pulled the relevant AIC and doubled checked- that doesnt seem to be too well known. Last time I looked at the NPPL website i seem to remember it saying that to cross over you needed an NPPl (M)

[italianjon]

No, do not worry I do not expect to jump out of a C152 into a Microlight.

My thinking is purely that I can either go for the JAR/PPL or NPPL. As I want to go further and get more ratings I will need the JAR/PPL eventually. Some advice I have recieved leads me to believe that an NPPL to JAR/PPL may not be as straight forward as it seems and could be costly. Therefore I am investigating the Microlight route to keep the flying bug in check, but thinking as I want to go further is obtaining a JAR/PPL a reasonable route to take.

By the sounds of the above posts it does not seem to fit with my plans. I would like each hour to count towards hour building, therefore I think I'll have to go JAR/PPL and then build at a slower rate.

I am still info collecting so any advice would still be gratefully recieved.

Cheers

J

[MyData]

J

I went through a similar process before settling on a PPL. I figured that although you might be saving £££ in the short term going for Microlights, then NPPL, then PPL you will eventually want to get the PPL so may as well go for that directly.

I see this flying lark as a long term commitment so the early 45-50 hours to PPL will eventually become part of your early learning and the cost (£££ and time) will become less and less significant compared to how much you will eventually spend.

Just my 2c.

[bar shaker]

The only reason for doing a PPL (for most people) over a NPPL is the foreign flight bit.

That is all about to change as EASA are pushing the RPPL across Europe, based on the UK NPPL.

When that's in place, the only people who will want to go for the full JARPPL will be those who want an airline career, those who wish to fly IR and those that wish to fly in states that won't accept it. It will be interesting to see if the US do accept it, I suspect that they will. The microlight NPPL is already accepted in the majority of Europe and at 130kts, many microlights will cross Europe quite quickly.

The rule on not allowing hours from a "lesser" class may also be redefined. Its crazy that someone can rack up 100+ hours a year in their Eurostar or C42 and not maintain a licence to fly a Cessna. There is very little between those at the blurred edge of microlight and SEP.

Aircraft such as the CT2K and Banbi really do blur these edges further and apart from the limit on seating numbers, they make you wonder why you would spend the extra money.

There are plenty on here who will dissagree. But as an example, I have a friend who has a microlight and maintains his currency on PPL A and PPL H. He flies 50+ hours a year in his microlight and enough to maintain his licence on the others.

If you do get your microlight NPPL (approx £2500) and buy a share in a nice hot aircraft worth £40k-£50k, or even buy one outright, you will find that people who have a 10% share in a 152 will look down on you, at certain airfields.

Oh, how you will laugh.

[tmmorris]

I must say all this seems to me to show a worrying trend. I forsee the following sequence of events in the next few years:

1. EASA RPPL launched. Very popular with recreational pilots, especially 'of a certain age', as the NPPL has been here. Recognised across Europe, so some of the disadvantages of the NPPL are removed, but it's day VFR only.

2. Only a tiny minority of pilots now bother with JAA PPL(A), mostly those going on to an airline career. The IMC rating withers and dies, as foreign states don't recognise it and most recreational pilots now do RPPLs. No-one can afford a PPL/IR anyway.

3. The vast majority of new and affordable planes are microlights or PFA homebuilts. The old training fleet of PA28/C172/PA38/C152s fall apart and are not replaced, because you can train for an RPPL on PFA/microlight types.

4. The PPL(A) is withdrawn, and replaced by 'stage one of the professional career process'. Recreational pilots now have to take an RPPL; career pilots all do integrated courses where the PPL is replaced by 'test 1', and the first actual license awarded is a CPL/IR/multi.

5. And lo and behold, recreational pilots can no longer fly at night, or in IMC.

Am I paranoid?

Tim

[englishal]

Get a JAA PPL, then fly microlights on it. When you have > 250 hours and IF you wanted to get a JAA CPL, here is what you do.

You go to America and get an FAA PPL based on your JAA one. The FAA recognise your microlight hours as proper hours, and once you meet the requirements of CPL, you take the CPL test. You get this, and then you convert it to a JAA CPL via a 10 hour course or something....(+ exams etc..)

In theory this should work....shouldn't it.....?;)

[italianjon]

All sounds interesting.

On the JARPPL is there not a 24 month validity on the SEP rating, so what happens to the ability to fly microlights?

I'll still have to do a skills test on a C152 or similar every two years... Is that feasible if I am in a border Micro/SEP craft? I really do not want to be a position where it is costing to maintain the PPL because I have to re-learn SEP skills.

English... I like the FAA CPL idea... I'll look into that, looks good in theory!

Cheers guys, good ideas, keep 'em coming.

J

[bar shaker]

Tim

That's an excellent post and I think you may be right.

The only thing I would add is that it is very easy to top your NPPL up to a JARPPL with almost all hours counting. For those that want to go onto IR or multis, the path is simple and cheap.

The only thing which may affect this, and I think its a current fault with JARPPL, is that NPPL is likely to accept training hours at non licenced airfields. This is already the case with the NPPL M and there is no reason why NPPL A shouldn't follow from this.

Al, very interesting that FAA accept microlight hours for PPL A currency.

My main concern in all this is that as the line between SEP aircraft and microlights has blurred, I hope microlights do not get lost in the fog of SEP regulation.