Worst paid turbine drivers

[hair of the dogma]

Anybody out there flying million dollar plus aeroplanes for less than the dole?

Before I get my head bitten off, yes I bought it on my self. I was just wondering if I was alone.

[GW_04]

Let me guess....PJE :ooh:

[Woomera]

You aren't alone...............

Woomera

[swh]

Some parts of China, Asia, and Eastern Europe, India narrow body jet pilots can be earning less than US$1000 a month.

[Woomera]

Well paid compared to some GA pilots and flying instructors in Australia.

[0tter1]

swh - add the USA to your list

1300US a month flying a metro in the USA, thinking about coming back to AUS . Cost of living here kills you.. Was making more flying a 402...

[swh]

0tter1/ Woomera,

I was getting at MD80, 717, 737, A320 size aircraft, costs 40+ million to buy, and pay the drivers so little.

I think the wages at the lower end are too low.

[0tter1]

swh

Most of the regionals here in the USA pay about 18'000 a year for the first year. It doesnt help when you have to live in a city that costs about as much as Sydney... The a/c they operate are CRJ's and EMB Jets. Not that big, but still expensive machines.

[splatgothebugs]

Sorry this is slightly off topic, but out of interest what do prop drivers in oz get paid?

on the likes of dash8, b190 (if any left) ect

splat :ok:

[Metro man]

Queensland Rail are looking for train drivers at the moment. Average AU$70 000/year, significantly more in regional areas.

[DeltaSix]

Crane drivers I think gets around 80,000/year ( with overtime ).

A330 S/O in Asia $12,000 or less a year ( with everything in it ) As what swh said.

SWH is spot on, I was offered an A330 S/O seat for $12,000 AUD a year ( equivalent ) in Asia.

What's wrong with this picture ?

I use my finance and accounting degree and I get offered 120,000/year.

Where's the economic sense in flying the A330 or any turbo prop even with Qlink offering 35k less 18k for endo ?

Boys and girls, I see it as you only do it for the love of flying and not for the money.


D6

[Wheeler]

Yeah, its disgusting what those at that end of the food chain get, especially after what they have to go through to get there. But is it not just supply and demand economics? For it to change either the supply or the demand will have to change. Surely, nobody in their right mind would consider the supply side of the equation..... but they keep coming dont they! If a good PJE pilot was a bit harder to find, they might just pay them properly...

(What really confuses me in all of this though is why those at the top get so much.)

Why am I suggesting that is the end of the food chain - it isn't really is it? Some of us are working for even less!

Cannot imagine Mr Howard's new work place legislation doing much to help. A good old fashioned AWA is all about paying those with the skills in demand and allowing employers to crap on those who are unfortunate enough to work in an industry where there is a plentiful labour supply. I hate to say it but things can only get worse.

[Woomera]

D6. Stick to accounting and finance! I'm sure you will be far more satisfied!

If you were employed as an SO with Qantas you would be paid an Australian comparable salary.

As an opportunist, you overlook the fact that an A330 S/O in Asia on $12,000 or less a year is probably doing far better financially that his/her fellow countryman.

Horses for courses! :ok:

Woomera

[Night Watch]

Woomera

Your absolutely right...... it's all about perspective. As for me..... well i judge the level of pay and conditions on how much a beer costs. Beer in Hong Kong can cost $7-8 AUD a stubby. Where as in the Philippines, Indonesia or Thailand you can get one for under $1-2 AUD bucks. So by that lodgic..... South east Asian airlines deserve what they get and CX and QF guys likewise.....

Why do i get the feeling that I'm going to need a flack jacket for that last comment. :ok:

[Whiskey226]

I can say first hand that the beer price index works perfectly. When I was doing PJE, beers from the DZ were free, and I was paid accordingly... :hmm:

[DeltaSix]

you overlook the fact that an A330 S/O in Asia on $12,000 or less a year is probably doing far better financially that his/her fellow countryman.
I beg to differ Big W. This is exactly the reason why they are going overseas. They have invested so much in their training like us and actually get far "less" and financially worse off than their fellow countryman. Last time I spoke to one bloke, he was saying that they are losing another 3 Captains and 6 F/O's to an overseas carrier because of pay issues and to top it off - retiring another 6 Captains. They have a recruitment back-log of 1.5-2 years as they can't get their experienced pilots back nor retain them after the 5 year contract because the pay is sh*t.

They know diddely squat about how much QF pilots get paid. I didn't say anything coz I didn't want to start a mass exodus out of that airline if they found out.

Me an opportunist ?......... nothing wrong with looking at what is going on in the outside world :ok:

Nigh watch, care to elaborate what you meant with this ?
South east Asian airlines deserve what they get and CX and QF guys likewise.....

[Woomera]

DeltaSix. I’m not sure where this discussion is going, however I’ll try to appreciate your perspective.

Wages, whether a pilot, train driver, or accountant etc, are dictated by a country’s socio economic structure, influenced by supply and demand within each specific vocation. If an experienced MBA or IT graduate in the Philippines for example, earns on average PHP 30,000 (Aus$680) per month and a labourer earns PHP 12,000 (Aus$275) per month, where is the justification for paying an airline captain an equivalent first world wage of PNP 550,000 (Aus$12,500) per month?

“I use my finance and accounting degree and I get offered 120,000/year.” Yes, in Australia perhaps, but would you get offered the same salary in the Philippines, China or India? I doubt it! Why should you expect a preferential salary to work as a pilot in one of those countries, when one of their citizens is willing to fill the position at a salary that country can afford? If that country were short of accountants or pilots, the situation may be different – supply and demand!

The cost of training is not a factor which has any great influence on wages. It is simply supply and demand within each specific vocation or profession. The fact there are less MBAs, IT graduates or airline pilots, versus the number required by that society, results in a higher wage or “buying price”.

In Australia, there is generally a surplus of new, inexperienced CPL graduates, thus they are being unfairly exploited by unscrupulous operators – see other threads in Dunnunda forums. Conversely, with the rapid expansion in airline operations in Australia and whilst there is no shortage of aspiring candidates, there is a limited pool of qualified and experienced airline pilots and they command a significantly higher wage.

Pilot training costs in Asia are generally lower and many pilots are trained by the military, under government funded or partially funded schemes or as airline funded cadets.

The fact some pilots move to other countries and higher wages is again a factor of supply and demand – in the same manner many Australian pilots have moved to overseas flying positions. That is their indisputable right.

If you don’t understand “supply and demand” go study crude oil prices over the past five years or so.

I suspect Night Watch perhaps omitted one word: “South east Asian airline PILOTS deserve what they get and CX and QF guys likewise.....” I think he was alluding to my comments above. I agree with him.

Woomera

[Night Watch]

Thanks Woomera

Spot on..... thats exactly what I meant.

[AT502]

Just to show off to you 'other' turbine drivers, us turbine Ag pilots who fly in the cotton areas expect to earn between $100 - 200k per year. About $150k is average I would say with a good large turbine operator.

Sorry to rub it in - couldn't help myself:E

AT502 :cool:




Because, AT502, there is a limited pool of pilots with the requisite skills and experience. That supply and demand thing again!! :p

And from what I've seen of your activities, you deserve every dollar! :ok:

Woomera

[Lickmine]

If you want to earn decent money flying even a simple turbine (C208), the certainly consider contract work in Africa. You will need to validate your AUS licence to a South African licence - matter of sitting Air Law and Procedures and then doing a flight test. There are many companies which offer contract work. The locations that you might get sent to are maybe not the best in the world but the money is quite good. Seems better than what the previous replies are saying.

[Super Cecil]

AT502, 2 gene cotton, no water in dams, cotton worth less than 300 a bale..............shortly to be $40,000 for three months then sitting around for the rest of the year. You will have to get that moth seeding setup going :8 : although hopefully you will get a resonable winter, maybe some wheat work later?

[AT502]

Deary me Cec, you are very gloomy!

Since two gene cotton we have certainly been doing less insecticides but we are doing more foliar fert. Fly around here and you will see all on farm storages very full. This season is looking to be another OK one, even though the forecast is for a hell of a lot of bollgard.

I don't feel it is the end of the cotton days, I think we have to think outside the square more and see how the aeroplane can be used more.

AT502

[Roller Merlin]

I tell this to the younger blokes....it is simple guys - get qualifications that mean you can specialise in an area where there is big money turning over, like mining, or mass production, and the income will follow.

As for supply and demand, I subscribe the to the philosophy of affordability. If you want it and can afford it you will usually buy it. Items will drop to the level of affordabiity and thereafter will continue to sell. If an organisation can afford not to keep you on contract, you probablywill not be resigned. If they cant afford to lose you (because you are so necessary to the process) then you have got it made.

[AT502]

Are Zimmex Aviation (spelling?) still contracting in Africa?

I remember pilots willing to go over there so they could fly twin turbines to get the hours. The money was cr@p and the living conditions were very bad:{

AT502

[Super Cecil]

Sorry about the negativity 502, bin hanging round prune and cocky's too long. There are years when you work your bum off and those you don't. Out west/cotton/wheat work one year in about 5 your flat out, 2 of the 5 your doing just OK and the other 2 is spent working on gear.

[Islander Jock]

I was recently involved in a tender evaluation for the provision of air charter services in Afghanistan, probably one of the most dangerous f*&king places in the world to fly at the moment.
The tender invitation stipulated that it must be a 2 pilot operaton for all aircraft incl C208 and BE200.

The guys flying the frames over there are some of the most dedicated and hardworking I've come across in the industry. They do this for between $2500 and $4000 USD p/m with a risk that every flight someone is going to take a shot at them with anything from 7.62, RPG or shoulder launched SAM. THis in an environment where internationals in whatever role outside aviation are earning a minimum of $7000 USD per month.

I cannot see how it is going to change or get any better for pilots in the near future. Pilots fly because they love it, employers know it and companies calling for tenders, whilst considering a broad qualifying criteria, will be driven by the lowest bottom line dollar quote.

[StoliP57]

Award for SA227 captains on rpt = 50g's - f/o's = 35g's.