Weather Avoidance

[5milesbaby]

Had a 'few' deviations yesterday and it seems to be happenning more often over Europe than used to be considered normal. Unfortunately until the avoidance starts in earnest, the flow rates aren't altered and controllers can be faced with peak flows made almost impossible by the unusual.

The main reason for the post is to ask pilots for some help when this happens. If you can see early on that a turn may be neccessary, let us know asap. Our best policy in these situations is to go for just vertical separation, radar headings with 'at your discretion' descents do not work when one wants to manouvre towards another. Let us know exactly what heading you need, and if you can go around either way, give us the choice of the 2 headings needed. We then can choose quickly the best way for the plan ahead.

To let you know where this has come from, I had about 5 a/c not comply with the 'descend NOW FL***' and had the opportunity twice to go back and 'confirm descending' to get responses 'will be in 10 miles'. Forcing down a/c helps the avoidance later on when everyone goes for the same gap and stepped descents become the only way. It also means speed control can be used and a/c can be pulled back much slower and still make the restrictions. The other problem was caused by several asking 'request turns for weather'. What turns, which way? Not having a weather radar means I have no idea where the weather is, I have some idea from the directions the previous a/c have taken but weather moves, and we do not know to where and how fast. We also find that a cell that one avoids, the next doesn't. Just ask for the headings needed that way its quick and easy for us to deal with.

I'm not having a go or trying to start any tempers raging, just hoping to educate a little to help us keep it all safe when this happens.

5mb :ok:

[flower]

Good post 5 Miles,
as you say not having a go just explaining a situation. When we have to work with weather avoidance going on ,our workload increases substantially with the only safe way in the type of environment that i work in of applying level separation.
We will do our damnedest to help and to be fair the crews are always grateful for the deviations you give them, but just an awareness of how much our workload increases is a good thing.

[bookworm]

The main reason for the post is to ask pilots for some help when this happens. If you can see early on that a turn may be neccessary, let us know asap. Our best policy in these situations is to go for just vertical separation, radar headings with 'at your discretion' descents do not work when one wants to manouvre towards another. Let us know exactly what heading you need, and if you can go around either way, give us the choice of the 2 headings needed. We then can choose quickly the best way for the plan ahead.

What you seem to be asking for, 5mb, is for crews to share their plans with you sooner rather than later, so that you can fit their weather planning in with your air traffic management planning. I think that's an excellent suggestion.

But can you understand my frustration at reading that in the light of your responses in this thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=173360) when I asked that you share your plan with us?

[Don't Tell Him Pike]

Ah but bookworm, the pilot's plan generally only involves the one aircraft.

[5milesbaby]

bookworm I shared my thoughts with you in that thread and stick by them now. I do give the occasional reason for something I do on radar but very rarely. You do not NEED to know my plan, but I MUST know any plans to deviate from the routing given. I am requesting to be told earlier if it is known a deviation is required and what heading is neccessary as yesterday it caused bigger problems than it needed to. Yesterday we managed to shift the traffic very well and safely, not long ago this wasn't possible and the London TMA was told to stop ALL departures going south/east and then given a very restrictive departure rate about 10 minutes later. The delays for departure rose to an incredible amount and LHR nearly got totally stuffed. With a little help from the pointy end then everyone will get where they want much easier.

I hate to use the old over-used comeback but this is why getting visits to the centres and at least asking to be shown how weather affects operations if not actually seeing it for real will increase awareness for the complexity of what we now do. Its a shame that its very difficult for us to reciprocate and wipe some dust off the spare seat up front too but realise that in some cases a benefit would be gained.