Aberdeen R34 ILS

[Pack2]

I was told today that there is a requirement to keep 160Kts until 4DME on this approach But I cant find it written anywhere. Can anyone help me out..
Thanks

[letMfly]

Pack2

As far as I am aware there is no such requirement. If there was, the base choppers would have a bit of a job complying!

letMfly

[U R NumberOne]

Come on LetMFly...it's only 'cos of your vectoring that helicopters have to do silly speeds to short final :E

Pack 2 - my mate LetMFly is right though, there is no requirement although in order to maintain separation it is a commonly used procedure down both final approach tracks at ISZ. The figure of 160kts to 4DME has gradually become a generally acceptable speed that seems to suit most types from twin props to medium twin jets. But if you want to fly at a different speed - just ask! :ok:

[Cuddles]

And you'll say no won't you?:D

[throw a dyce]

Pack 2
Works fine with Heavies if we had any and is a standard speed that is used almost everywhere with fixed wing.It is also used to provide the Tower with gaps.Ain't such a quiet place now so you can't please yourself.I though most airline SOP's were fine with 160 til 4

[Bumblebee]

With the 737, some of us would prefer 170 to 5.....it saves having to drop the gear* until that point, saves a lot of fuel and noise and still allows us to meet our company's stabilised approach criteria. (Unless we're in a very light and slipperier -500 and have alot of speed to come off to get down to our Vref)

*It's just that in order to fly 160kts we need to use Flap15 - and that means having the gear down otherwise we get the landing gear warning horn going off and tea-no-biscuits type interviews...

:8


Thx Greaser...edited to say this applies to the 737 3/4/500

[The Greaser]

Unless you are in a 700/800 then you can fly 160kts with flap 5.

[throw a dyce]

Bumblebee,

I understand what your saying that some types of 737's prefer 170 til 5,but is that including the 200? .Ryanair seem to prefer Warp9 til 500 ft.
At ISZ that is a real problem as we can have such a variety of types on final.You just need a S61 on the ILS on you'll all be doing 110 kts max if I muck up the vectoring.Then there's the Tornado up your arse for a practise diversion.
If you prefer to do 170 til 5 then that isn't a whole lot different than 160 til 4.The only snag is, that's what you prefer in a 733 or 734, but what about all the turboprops we get?How do I know what they prefer? Answer: Nail them all to 160 til 4.
It's just that 160 til 4 is used at most places without too much complaint,bearing in mind that here you will be following a heli,guaranteed.

[Khaosai]

Hi our company like us to be in the groove by 1000ft AAL. On a light weight aircraft it can be difficult to achieve, particularly with light winds/tailwinds. With a heavy 773 not so bad as vref can be 154 kts. Not really applicable to Abirdeen unless we divert from Glesgie, very unlikely. Rgds.

[The Greaser]

I'd love to see a 773 in ABZ.

[Richard Taylor]

We get plenty 332s so why not a 773 :}

When Bliar landed at ABZ a few years back from Dubya was that a 772.

[bekolblockage]

Hey, Throw a

Remember 4 years ago? 160 to 4? CANNOT!!! Nothing's changed.

[Khaosai]

Hi Richard, yes that was a BA 772. I think you could land a 773 at max landing weight into ABZ....just. Can someone remind me the length of runway, 1800m rings a bell. However would not be the first choice of alternate. Rgds.

[throw a dyce]

Hi Bekol,

Where's the Checker Board? Thought you have it on UPS to me by now. I need it for the BEEKYNEUK 1 arrival.Only taken 4 years or are you guys planning a great comeback for the thing.
There were a lot of CANNOTS in Fragrant Harbour.Min vortex spacing on final 25R sim mode? Have you been in the Plaza again?We're talking about Aberdeen Frozen North,not Aberdeen Hongkers.


Khaosai

773's in here? Need to saw it in half to get it on the apron.It wouldn't fit on the taxiway and I doubt if you could 180 on the runway. Would be interesting to see sometime.We got a 742 to do a touch and go,so if you fancy some training ILS's :ok:

[Khaosai]

Hi throw a dyce, yes, would be very interesting. You can do 180 turns in non normal/emergency situations, preferably by towing. If this is not an option then you would do a pivot turn, preferably using a marshaller to line up exactly on the edge. Max tiller, full brake pressure to inside main gear until nose gear clear of runway edge on opposite side and sufficient thrust to enable the pivot.You would then be advised to inspect main gear and nose gear tires, and the runway edge surface for damage. B773 requires 44.2 metres using the above method !!. East apron might be a better choice but my memory of the airfield is a wee bit hazy. Think you would only see the aircraft there if there are absolutely no other viable options. Have seen the pics of B742, very impressive. Rgds.

[throw a dyce]

Khaosai,

You could try a 180 with a marshaller into the old ORP's and the park on 23.A 773 seems a whole lot bigger though than the Heavies we've had before.Funny you say about last resort,but I nearly got an 772 with a sick pax at 4am.Same questions but he didn't declare an emergency so went to EHAM.

Saw plenty of 773's in Fragrant Harbour and was Tower controller for the 742 at ISZ.Kinda dwarfs the old 332's a bit.Always welcome types we don't see that much.

[Richard Taylor]

Perhaps the ABZ guys can confirm,what has been the largest a/c to land (rather than touch & go!) at ABZ ?

Is it a toss up between the BA 772 or the Sultan of Brunei's A340?

I remember over the years the Saudi TriStar in 1998(the only "big jet" I've managed to see actually at the airport complex itself),LTU A330,SAS DC-8(just, through the mist!),& I do remember seeing on approach & on climbout the BA TriStars when they were used on the LHR run on Fri evenings in 1983(they were impressive at the time!)

I think I recall a VC10 in 1984,or my memory may be playing tricks.

Would imagine the 772 is the biggest though?

[Married a Canadian]

Blair did fly in in his 777 afew years back. I and others sat on the tower balcony watching in amazement. It parked over the other side of the airfield by the Midland hanger.

On takeoff it got airborne about halfway down the runway......empty I presume......if it wasn't then maybe transatlantic out of Aberdeen isn't so far fetched...

Houston anyone?...oil city to oil city??

[letMfly]

Perhaps the ABZ guys can confirm,what has been the largest a/c to land (rather than touch & go!) at ABZ ?

Is it a toss up between the BA 772 or the Sultan of Brunei's A340?

Yes, it is a toss up between the B772 and the A340 for the largest aircraft to land at ISZ.

However the Alitalia B742 wasn't the largest aircraft to fly the ILS at Dyce; it was a C5A Galaxy which shot two approaches on 14/9/1988.

Other interesting aircraft to fly approaches include an Australian airforce B707 in 1990, a Caledonian DC10 in 1993, a Concorde (touch and go) in 1983?, 2 x B52s on 13/3/1992 followed by 3 x B52s in line astern the next day. Talking of formations, some particularly impressive ones to buzz the Unit include 5 x Shacks on 10/3/1989, 6 x Buccs on 12/12/1990 and 4 x Nims on 1/4/1993.

Unfortunately nothing much of note in recent years though, apart from a Kiwi P3 and a RAF C17.

And no, URNumberOne, I haven't turned into a Super Spotter - I just had a look at the "Beat up Book"!

[055166k]

I'd check the runway PCN to see if it can take the load of a B773, seem to remember reading something about Orly and runway damage if 773's based there....but could be wrong.

[U R NumberOne]

:D :D

LetMFly,

I'm pleased you qualified the source of the data...I was beginning to get very worried about you!

[Data Dad]

letMfly

The beat-up book doesn't contain the best (IMHO)!

29th March 1987 (sad or what!)

Fly-by of KC-10 and 6 Louisiana ANG F-15's in VERY close formation.....

Or there was the Tonka F3 on one of their first ever PD's that was told by a current serving WM that he "wasn't as impressive as a Lightning" The response was rather interesting - and I don't mean the verbal reply either :ok: but that is getting way off topic

DD

[Khaosai]

Hi 055, yes for sure ACN/PCN would be an issue in ABZ, but as stated would only go there if no other viable options. If faced with that situation then personally those types of things would be disregarded, i.e emergency landing. ACN for 773ER would be anywhere between 60 and 120 depending on the pavement surface. For ABZ i would imagine you would be looking at around 70 to 80 at 341 tons. If ABZ PCN less than this then you can adjust aircraft weight to suit. If i remember will look it up next time at work unless someone can supply info sooner. Rgds.

[throw a dyce]

Returning to the original thread.Bristows have a EC25,or Mk3 332 that I vectored on the ILS today behind an EMB145.This thing maintained 155 kts to 1 mile and ate up the 145 jet.Is it possible for a heli to maintan 160 kts to 4.Maybe now.Just wait until it's filled with 20 lardy oilies.125 kts max.But then again:)