Easyjet crm and tech refresher, or NOT

[kuwaitlocal]

Just had an interesting chat with some former colleagues and heard that Easyjet have scrapped all tech refresher training, and also that crm recurrent has all but gone. Training Dept are chuffed at how much money they have saved the company. Interesting times. Come out to the sand pit, better weather and conditions. You know you want to.

[His dudeness]

CRM refresher and annual a/c refresher tng are mandatory to stay JAROPS 1 complient, aren´t they?

Can´t believe that story...

[FlapsOne]

I wouldn't believe the story 'cos it just ain't true. I did it just a few weeks ago.

It's in a trimmed down format (which I don't particularly like btw) but it fulfills all the legal requirements of jarops.

Tech refresher is in identical format to BA, and SEP/CRM is one day groan in the classroom.

Oh dear, another rumour rubbished so quickly!

[Lord Fulmer]

Err , hang on a minute FlapsOne, the tech refresher is a D.I.Y. 100 question quiz with no outside assistance, i.e 100% look it up yourself, with your score attached to your roster at a later date, if they remember.

The SEP/CRM is an all day, one man band lecture/performance by Dr D. of BM/VS fame, and involves sitting in a classroom for a day and not falling asleep.

Fact.

Maybe the rumour is not "rubbished so quickly!'

[Daysleeper]

The SEP/CRM is an all day, one man band lecture/performance by Dr D. of BM/VS fame, and involves sitting in a classroom for a day and not falling asleep.

JAR compliant annual SEP should take about an hour and a half and CRM refresher about 4 hours.

Every third year might take a bit longer for the SEPs with the extra items.

Dont see a problem with what EZY are doing at least on paper.

[FlapsOne]

Fulmer

Like I say, same as BA (except their's was only 25 questions!!) and 100% JAROPS compliant.

FACT!

[Flying Quill]

Tech refresher: 100 questions designed to get piltos looking through the manual. Pretty good - saves downtime, and more beneficial than falling asleep in the classroom.

SEP: just the same

CRM: now tought by a professional rather than a one day trained pilot or flight attendant.

All JAR compliant, all perfectly satisfactory, all cost conscious, all limiting my time spent in LTN. In fact, all quit satisfactory.

So what was the point of this thread? I often wonder if this website does enough good to counter the unwarranted damage which it can sometimes encourage?

FQ

[acbus1]

CRM: now tought by a professional
Professional what? :rolleyes: :*


No prizes for the correct answers (plural, since many words fit the bill).

[A4]

Can someone please explain the point of this thread? I have just been through the full works at EZY as a new joiner and I have to say it was comprehensive and covered all points equally if not better than my previous employer (large UK Charter).

What's wrong with a "look it up yourself in the books" questionaire. Except on the Bus at EZY we don't have books - nice little Panasonic Toughbooks with everything there. I think it is actually a good exercise because it keeps you familiar with finding your way around - which could be extremely handy if things get a bit frought one day.

The thread starter seems to think that eveyone should now leave EZY and head east to go and bake in 45°C, leave wife and kids behind to stew in heat and allegedly to get rest time in the bunk on the return leg ready to operate next sector on return.....

Thanks for the offer but I don't think so.

A4 :rolleyes:

[Leo8]

Still sounds more than you would get at a low cost turboprop operator!

We get a 25 question test once a year about a quarter of which doesnt make sense or has only wrong answers!

As for CRM and SEP's?

CRM maybe 4 hours per year and SEP's about 3 hours.

Its all just a tick in the box.

[jetjockey737]

Dr D is a proffessional what exactly???? He never told us what his background was, as he felt it was on a need to know basis!

The new tech questionaire is good, it helps you find your way around the manuals again. For me though you cant beat a tech refresher day, they certainly made me think and I felt that my level of knowledge was higher after that than after doing the questionaire. I personally would like both as the questionaire asked alot about ops and perf etc.

SEP is ok though covers everything we need to know.

CRM was a joke, nobody could be arsed to argue the point as Dr D would get up on the biggest highest horse around ( he needs the extra height!!!!) and shout them down.

Typical EZY mentaility of trimming it to the bones, instead of trimming off a bit of fat!!!!

Oh but it meets the 'minimum' JAROPS requirements though...which makes it 'legal'.....Flapsone you should work in crewing / rostering!!!!

[FlapsOne]

jetjockey

It more than meets the minimum. I said it's 100% Jarops compliant which is different.

I couldn't work in crewing/rostering.......too much like hard work!

[Agaricus bisporus]

A cynic might think that a DIY refresher allows them another unnecessary day's use out of you per year, wheras you lose yet another 2 days "off" doing the damn thing in your own time...

Chip, chip, chip...

[Flying Quill]

Well, you could do it in your own time if you were so company minded. Or you could chip, chip, chip away at it during flight. And then there's standby...

Besides, what would you rather do, Agaricus: spend another day in a classroom in LTN, or go flying? I'd rather stay at home and do neither, to be honest, but I'd choose the flying over a classroom in LTN any day!

I don't think we need to know a stunning amount about the aircraft; just how to fly it, what to press and when to press it. But we do need to know where to find information, and this is exactly what the tech questionnaire helps us achieve.

FQ

[Sagittarius Rising]

Dear Quill,

Get your facts right-it takes rather more than a days training to become a CRMI! Maybe a look at CAP737 might enlighten you.


SR

[Colonel Klink]

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Before we get too far down the mud-slinging route about who is right and wrong, let's look at the facts.
The fact is that while Flaps One is quite correct in that the course is JAR compliant in it's new one day format (and that Dr D is of very little elevation) the nay-sayers are also quite correct.
A few years ago this was a three day event and I'm afraid some of us have never got used to the change as it is not for the better. The one day tech refresher was held with a systems expert from CTC and was universally regarded as excellent. CRM was infinitley better, and the Security aspect was carried out by professionals. This is not what happens today with the whole lot crammed into one day, no tech. refresher except in our own time which carries no weight as we are all too knackered to do it properly, and yes, I believe it was all down to cost.
With respect to Dr. D I personally got little value from it but others may disagree. As a former AVsec instructor myself in the early days of easyJet, many of his facts were wrong and in the CRM element, about 40% of the time was wasted with him telling us about his knowledge and experience and why we were lucky to have him, as if we could give a damn!!

[You Gimboid]

Hear hear Col K!

I got the impression that those in the know about Dr D's self-advertising were content to sit back and think about next week's lottery numbers, did I put the cat out and are Bolton going to win the League next season.

The unfortunate majority were however forced to participate in a sometimes laughable but always tense game of one-upmanship in which there is always only one winner - the Doc.

I always found the tech refresher day to be the most valuable of the three-day format with CRM usually bottom of the league. While I am grateful for only having to spend one night in the Ramada Redbourne, the whole thing seems to have been condensed into a cost-saving exercise rather than anything of any value.

[mcdhu]

............and who needs/wants an hour for lunch at Ltn when faced with the consequence of the M1 at 1700hrs?

Cheers,
mcdhu

[easyprison]

The tech ref is sadly missed, the guy's from ctc were excellent.

As for SEP/CRM - I learn't nothing about CRM only what the dr d-h's CV looked like.

The best crm I did was with a pilot and cabin crew member leading the day about 16mths ago. It was excellent and in total contrast to listing to some p***k who fancies himself all day long.

[Airbrake]

The current days CRM/SEP may meet the minimum requirements on paper but fails to achieve them in the classroom. The loss of the Tech day "Chalk and Talk" last year is a major step backwards.

[Capt.Paul Skinback]

Dr D's CRM day is a complete waste of time. eJ have always prided themselves on their devotion to training and safety but unfortunately this one man show is a serious step back.

Apart from the man's enormous ego and pathetic attempts to come across as a fully trained commercial pilot, there is no actual CRM content in his course- of which we have a licence requirement to participate in. There is no facilitation and as we all sit in rows like schoolkids no learning.

The Head of CRM was starting to make a real difference at eJ, but due to the ever increasing bmi masonic handshake, all his efforts have been for nil.

[Pete O'Tube]

Agree with most of the above ... its legal and thats not an easy thing ... its a CAA thing.

So really, this post should be addressed to them.

Tech Ref .... waste of time, crap Q (airbus), needless knowledge ... its an airbus not a boeing boys, and most of us just got e-mailed the answer sheet anyway!!

My SEP lasted about 15 mins, all of us were late due to the roster versus actual time of a taxi round the M25 at rush hour so it was fitted in!!

CRM/Avsec... as we all agree Dr D, "I am an expert for the Army/Navy/Airforce, sit on these interviews, CAA advisor, Safety Buff ..." dream on, please dispose of him, no idea about this world, in his the grass is tangerine and the sky pink!! Just his wierd mind and awful taste in jumpers!! Know FA about CRM no matter what his credentials say and as for AvSec ... well, many of us are ex-forces and can't believe the c*$p he actually comes out with.

Have to disagree with one comment, by Capt PS about the bmi masonic handshake ... I think their far better than the "eJ old boys club" which worked when it was a wee outfit but its time the dinosaurs died!!

[Capt.Paul Skinback]

Pete OT, you could well be right- its just that it seems you only have to be in JP's wedding photo and there's a management job for you. And trust me, bmi ain't nothing special either!

[stationcalling]

The technical questionaire will never replace the "chalk and talk" technical lectures that we used to get at Luton.
As far as "Dr" D is concerned, he`s a good mate of the Chief Trainer, who was the Chief Pilot`s best man. Now you all know how he got the job.

[RAT 5]

When, Oh when, is someone going to be honest and start up "Incest Airlines"?
If you want to maintain standards, keep it in the family!

[Immelmann]

Following the discusssions around EZY very close (you never know!?) questions to the orange insiders:

Is that famous CRM-Doctor the father of the idea to have two line captains flying together?
And the other question: is it truely to happen? (two line captains "concept") :confused:

[rubik101]

Yup, Capts in the right seat is soon to be up and running. As for the CRM-Tech set up, I have to agree with most posters.
I was less than impressed with the CRM from Dr.D. His ego is inversly proportional to his knowledge. His method (acting) comes straight from Hammer Horror films and his smug grin just p++sed me off.
The Tech exam I managed to do on the longer flights over a period of a few weeks, ably assisited by the FOs generally.
The Jarvis is a s++t hole although the staff do try. It's loud, with the M1 about 30yds away, it's hot, the breakfast is rubbish and I've no doubt no-one asked the crews where they would rather stay. Ah well, ej strikes at the hearts once again!

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

The efforts of the good Doctor at Luton were frankly astonishing. I am struggling to recall an individual who has ever done so much in his life - it was like a day with James Bond! He knew more about flying than any 737 or 319 training captain in the room, more about being cabin crew than any of the SCCMs present, more about security than any copper and to add to his talents seemed to be on the payroll for Her Majesty in advising various organisations about their flight simulators. Apparently, in addition to years doing 'Goriilas in the Mist' he has also become part of the 'command assessment' process. It was frankly one of the most bizarre displays I have ever witnessed from any presenter. The whole day was devoted to the continuous efforts of one man to prove his own adequacy. What on earth the company were thinking of in employing him I do not know.

I am one of thsoe simple souls who believe in pilots having the credibility to train other pilots and cabin crew having the credibility to train other cabin crew. Clearly there is much we can also learn from each other. I also think that people sharing their personal experiences in CRM lessons are an essential part of the day. Our CRM was a monologue with not a single person asked for a single experience or thought - truly dreadful.

Sadly folks - this boy has got to go!

[kriskross]

Yes, Fletch, but how? I have heard some interesting tales about those who opposed him in Midland!!!!

[Doug the Head]

The efforts of the good Doctor at Luton were frankly astonishing. I am struggling to recall an individual who has ever done so much in his life - it was like a day with James Bond! Hahahahaha! :D Nice way to put it!

I can´t remember the name of the guy who did my CRM training but he was always talking like "we this" and "we that," so I think it´s the same guy.

Isn´t his picture on the desk of one of the girls of the training department based in the Altheon building? Miss Moneypenny? ;)

[jetgirl]

A little birdie told me that the dangerous goods teaching that the great Doctor was doing has had to stop due to the fact that the CAA found out and pointed out he had no approval or license to teach it!

This part is now being done by the cabin crew trainers!!!!

I have to say, that this was the worst training day I have ever attended.