BACX ....whats happening?

[aghast of BHX]

>104 pilots resigned ( either left or working notice since January)
>Poor Management visibility
>Flawed RJ re-location to EDI strategy
>Diabolical trip planning and even worse rostering

Whats is going on? discuss

[Dash-7 lover]

Situation normal ...... although you could probably say that for every other airline in the UK...

[False Capture]

There are many sim rides and interviews for BACX pilots over the next few weeks, you can expect that number (104) to increase.

Rumours are that the EDI move isn't going ahead, the IOM and INV BAe146s are to stay, SWISS want to exchange some Embraer145s for some of BACX's RJ100s, and the leases on the Dash 8s haven't been renewed.

Since the 2005 Business Plan was announced it's been a balls-up from start to finish.

If year-after-year they direct people from LHS to RHS, from one fleet to another and from one base to another - they shouldn't be surprised when pilots start leaving in such numbers. Best of luck to all ex-BACX pilots.:ok:

[MarkD]

The Swiss thread mentioned the ERJ/6xARJ swap but that it was abandoned in favour of four (probably rusty if form is any guide) Turkish ARJs.

[Ghengis Cant]

The unique and puzzling aspect to the never ending downward spiral of CX is that the architects of its creation and progressive destruction thereafter appear to enjoy the full confidence of BA still after five years.

Every single business plan (we are now on to at least number six) has failed. The operational management they leant us from BA (now thankfully returned) was by common consensus an absolute disaster- the individuals concerned lacking even basic man management skills.

The solution to every single failed business plan has been to cut , cut and cut again. If DE and co have any inspirational vision as to exactly where they are leading us then they certainly are good at keping the secret from us. What is apparent is that the baby has on most occasions gone out with the bath water.
Look at Air South West. This operation was handed on a subsidised plate to Sutton Harbour who have laughed all the way to their bank ever since.
Look at the J41 gift to Eastern complete with a 27 million pound subsidy!
Look at the deal with Loganair.
etc,etc.......

At a time where progressive and driven airlines are showing signs of aggressively fighting towards a future with new fleets, routes and recruiting, the pilot community at CX has the enduring impression that our one solution CEO (who does not even acknowledge his pilots when he walks past them in the terminal) is being allowed to hold on to his job when the reality is that he should not be in charge of a corner shop.

For the sake of all of us Wille.......RETIRE THE MAN!! before it is too late.

[skiddyiom]

The feelings about the senior management at BACX doesn't stop at the pilots and flying types.

Engineering are severely disgruntled along with many of the support staff. It would be so nice to follow the rest of the world and have a business plan that relied on FORWARD progress instead of cuts and savings.

We have two types due to leave the airline - Dash 8's and 146's. The company has changed it's mind on the 146's several times and seems incapable of even making a decision on the Dash's at all.

If they both go, where's the spare capacity? Whats going to happen to routes like IOM-MAN etc?

People seem to be leaving and not being replaced. Is this a WW ploy to emaciate BACX prior to dumping it?

The mushroom syndrome is alive and well and thriving on BACX soil!!

skiddy

[HZ123]

Of interest how many staff do BACX have because WW's target or more correctly RE's target is still thousands and I cannot see that CX will contribute greatly. As I always say to you guys be assured that the organisation at Waterworld is no clearer.

[Hansof]

On good authority the remit of the CEO includes using CX as a proving ground for theories and models etc. Isn't he doing just that?

Maybe it is better to get it wrong at CX before trying to fit it to BA? How many agree?

[jordan]

BACX is one of the top 3 priorities for WW, based on the cumulative and continuing anacceptable losses. Unfortunately the biggest stumbling block is TUPE, because dozens of airlines (and a start-up or two) would willingly take on a very high proportion of the routes if they weren't hamstrung by TUPE implications of having to accept current salaries and T & C's of both flight crew and cabin crew. Yes, there are plenty of opportunities of making a success out of the BACX network, but it would have to be on the basis of a complete blank piece of paper (just like Air SouthWest)

[bmibaby.com]

I have to say that the negative comments that are posted on PPRuNe as well as discussing CitiExpress with a number of crew based at BHX, it has really put me off applying to them. Everyone seems to be very upbeat in their work & extremely friendly towards those interested in working there (comme moi!) but the biggest downside that seems to be causing everyone grief is the appaling management. If someone could PM me who works there, I'd be interested in getting a fuller picture!

Back to the topic in hand ... how are BACX performing on their network at the moment and is BA investing in the company? A dickie-bird told me that because CX wasn't performing well, they weren't getting a lot of money in from big daddy down in London. Shame, because it would be nice to see more Embraers ... whether more 145s or the much spoken of but never seen EMB-170/190 aircraft!

[Dash-7 lover]

Hansof.

I agree with you in some respects. It's better to try and bounce ideas about cutbacks and money saving on 2500 employees rather than 40,000+.

see your point

[tifosi]

BACX management surely have hidden agendas.
Unfortunately for us poor soles who still "work" there, that's exactly what they are.....Hidden!

We are constantly told by our "management" team that such sensitive information isn't available to them and even if it was, it couldn't be divulged to such insignificants as the pilot workforce.

Our future personal plans and life changing decisions rest on having some grasp of the future of our company (if indeed there is one) and so cannot be addressed with any degree of certainty.

One thing shines through like a beacon in the night.....

forget running an airline, these people couldn't run a bath!

[145 JOCKEY]

Whats happened to the announcement about the route cuts in line with the most recent size and shape plan ?
Rumour had it,it should of happened today ?
The union were briefed last week about it.
Anybody have any idea whats happening now?:confused:

[madmax100]

6 Routes from MAN and 2 from BHX to be axed.

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Can you expand on that?
Are they routes they have much competition on

G-I-B

[Daza]

I know an insider who is CX manager at BHX who believes that the only cuts will affect MAN indeed 25% of CX capacity is to be removed from MAN

[terrier21]

Is BRS still the most profitable CX station?

[XRJ]

Why do pilots stress about management? Why do pilots care about corporate strategy? I didn't sign up to even think about these things. I enjoy working at CX. I don't give management a second thought and hopefully they don't about me. I have a very stable roster pattern and the money is ok. I know some guys experiences are different but I can only say it as i see it!

[Kirkwall]

XRJ.

You must be fat dumb and happy of BHX then. The only base not to be affected by FSS 1- 20. I do hope you will be able to maintain this happy contented warm glowing feeling when your turn arrives.

[False Capture]

I don't give management a second thought and hopefully they don't about me. "Second thought"?!!

XRJ - they don't give a flying f:mad:k about you!

[XRJ]

Main point of the post was really to ask why as pilots we bother trying to second guess what's going to happen because the chance of ever guessing correctly OR being told the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth by management is slim as it would be in ANY commercial outfit, airline or otherwise. My post wasn't intended to be smug, nor was i trying to pretend that the whole of BACX is some fantastic outfit. Was just offering some balance to the general view that BACX is some sort of hell hole.

[parkfell]

Voting with ones feet, is a fairly good acid test as to how content or otherwise the workforce are with their lot. Existing bonds dont seem stop a career move to a major player.


:cool:

[no, no, no]

did someone say that BACX are coming off 6 MAN routes? There is nothing on the BA website about this - which routes are they?

[rhythm method]

Just because BACX are about to announce the withdrawal of several lucrative routes, doesn't mean that BA will not still be present on the same routes!

GB will shortly announce they are to 'fill the gap' in the market by offering more capacity on routes which are pretty maxed out for RJ operations. We cannot operate larger aircraft on the routes for SCOPE reasons, so another franchise operator will be allowed to take over. (Fair play to them, they aren't hindered by inept management and leadership like us!)

Of course we were told only a few months back by our previous GMFO that GB would only operate to 'sunshine routes' not served by BACX, and that none of our routes would be handed over! HA! HA! HA! What a joke!

I no longer believe a word that comes out of their mouths.

[ALLMCC]

Can anyone divulge if the MAN - BHD is likely to survive these cuts?

[Dash-7 lover]

APPARENTLY ALL WILL BECOME ABUNDANTLY CLOUDY ON 11 AUGUST

[Railgun]

Rumor has it mainline will be doing some routes from man.........

[madmax100]

August 11th announcement rumoured to be about BA's & BACX's plans to go down the loco route of charging for food and drinks on all shorthaul services....

Can anyone confirm how many RJ's have been sold to LH??

[Railgun]

I have heard that its going to be the removal from a lot of european routes from man. A mainline base been added there to do these routes for BA due to the poor performance of BACX at man.

They are holding out for a few months before any changes to the BA shorthaul network to see how BMI fair and if it was going to be a proper mainline announcement then it would not have been delayed, has much more of a footprint of BACX's typical indecision. Not long now though.

Rumor has it the only way they can do it with mainline is by a dramatic downsizing of the other mainline base they have to free up the aircraft needed..........Said base is also in Willies targets.

[skiddyiom]

Can anyone confirm how many RJ's have been sold to LH??

None as far as I know. And none on the horizon either. Where did this rumour come from?

skiddy

[Dash-7 lover]

There is absolutely no way on earth BA Mainline will revert MAN back to one of their bases. The general idea is to try and save money! I can imagine the routes that will go will be along the lines of MAD/FCO or MXP as they're much better served by an A321 of GB than trying to flog the guts out of an RJ. Makes sense to me, although keeping the 146's doesn't make sense at all as they'll have to be replaced eventually but that will feature in Business Plan no. 342!!

If anyone in BACX management would like to enlighten it's staff of the future of the company and what direction it's supposed to be taking then be kind and tell people once and for all then individials can decide whether to go and work for one the many profitable competitors or stay and try and make it work......

XRJ . . . . pilots should be aware of what the management are thinking. Just ask those that are on their 3rd relocation package and also their 3rd type rating in 12 months. And you wonder why people get miffed.....

[Railgun]

If mainline were to come back there is no way on this earth it could loose or cost anymore money than BACX currently do.

[AirLCY]

Of course Mainline would cost/lose more than BACX do if they opened MAN as a base. The a/c are larger and more costly. How how would flying 50 - 60 people to MXP on a A319 or 737 be cheaper than doing so on an RJ? Especailly as Mainline would require 5 crew when BACX only use 3 etc. There is too much competition on most MAN routes so not likely to fill any current BACX routes on a 319/737! The cost of re-opening a BA base at MAN would be huge!

[no, no, no]

are BA really pulling off any of their domestic MAN routes???????

[MarkD]

AirLCY

if a 319 can do more rotations due higher cruising speed and/or carry containers and/or maintain higher availability it can in fact make more money.

The question is where the 319s will come from - are BA due any in the near future?

[AirLCY]

Mark D

Fair point, but if BACX aren't filling an RJ100, why increase to a larger BA aircraft? I wouldn't think the passengers pay huge amounts either with most of their routes competed. Think BA have some options on the A319/20/21's. I really can't see it happening though. It'll prob be BACX with ERJ's D8's on doms etc, GB spain etc with BA doing LGW and LHR.

[madmax100]

Dash7 - we will soon "hear" that the RJ (not 146) will continue to serve 2 of the 3 routes you mention above!!!!

I doubt mainline will re-open a MAN base. They are already short of hulls/crews.

[MarkD]

AirLCY

The D-8s are (supposedly) leaving the fleet although there has been some recent doubt about it.

Let's face it, BA needs a raft of new NB aircraft to replace the 737s at LGW, the BCal 320s and the RJs. With the new A32x orders at BMed and GB, it's looking more likely that BA ShortHaul will contract and they will fill the void.

All this and Willie to come :yuk:

(edited to note: 8 BA A32x orders extant - only one due before 2007).

[Railgun]

Just look how well GB are doing on routes like MLA and PFO, filling them daily and selling club seats as well. There are reasons why the business class passangers dont pay of the club service on a EMB or a ARJ......... Cause it aint a proper club service.

[Fried_Chicken]

(edited to note: 8 BA A32x orders extant - only one due before 2007).

An A321 is due to be delivered to Heathrow this weekend, presumably the one due before 2007?

Fried Chicken

[MarkD]

That would be -EUXI, which jethros says is due... er... clicky... 05 Aug 05. ;)

3 x 320 (Nov 07/Dec 07/Jan 08) -EUUS/T/U
3 x 319 (Jan 08/Feb 08/May 08) -EUOJ/K/L

Hm. That's only 7. Jethros main BA page sez 8. Either he/she missed one or the info isn't available yet.

(edited to note - BA Fact Book says 1+3+3 at Dec04)

GB are leasing BUSJ from mainline and due to acquire 2 x 321s in Mar06/Mar07 and a further five thereafter to replace 320s -TTOA/B/C/D/E

BMED have eight 321s coming, the first in Mar06 to replace 320 -MEDA, the second in Mar07 and the rest May 07-Apr 10.

[Tandemrotor]

I suspect the assertion that BA would not wish to reopen a mainline base at MAN is probably correct. However the idea of GB (or any other franchise) operating to 'core' BA destinations, may prove problematic.

FWIW, I suspect another change to the BACX business plan, to maintain a/c other than an E145 on the higher density (and presumably profitable) routes out of MAN.

Another alternative is (soon to be surplus?) a/c at LGW touring through MAN.

[HZ123]

Surely GB already operate to a number of core routes namely GIB and all of N Africa. GB operate and exceed BA levels of service regularly.

[Capt. Horrendous]

Kirkwall, your statement that those at BHX have been unaffected by all the previous company change is untrue. A large percentage (if not a majority) of the people who are now based there have been shunted there from other bases which have shut/contracted, indeed many still commute to their former homes at great expense and stress.

BHX has probably got more disgruntled CX pilots than any other base on the network, all of whom are only too well aware of what base closures mean to themselves and their families.

[flyer55]

With GB replacing the A320's are BA Planning to keep them and maybe retain them at LGW?

[HZ123]

It would follow a proven plan of handmedowns, look no futher than the aged 737's that are clapped out internally, and look it.

[Barber's Pole Bob]

Just look at the hand-me down GB have got from BA -- G-BUSJ -- Spends more time on the ground than in the air...Saves GB a few quid buying an ECAM trainer though !! :{

I would have thought some of the new BA routes would have been up GB's street alike Izmir so are GB holding off having spare acft to pick up some of the BACX routes allowing further expansion out of MAN ???? :ok:

[flyer55]

GB probably had looked at that route and then said and passed to BA

[Dash-7 lover]

Suggest a trip to another thread on pprune - via Spectators Balcony and the NEW SWISS AVRO RJ100'S

or should it read NEW BACX EMB170's!!!!

[Daza]

Apparent announcement to be made today about size shape and service of BACX and I have been told it will also include LGW
Lets wait and see??!!
Daza

MAN to loose SNN,ZRH,ORK,NCE,PSA,FCO,STR and VCE no AR1s at MAN!!! BHX to loose FCO and VIE and will have only 4 AR1s and 9 ER4s
Daza

MAN to loose SNN,ZRH,ORK,NCE,PSA,FCO,STR and VCE no AR1s at MAN!!! BHX to loose FCO and VIE and will have only 4 AR1s and 9 ER4s
Daza

[FlyboyUK]

Apparently any annoucement delayed until next month

I don't know why the post above has some many exlamations after "no RJ's at MAN". It was announced in the last "announcement" ages ago that all the RJ's were going from MAN.

Apparently any annoucement delayed until next month

[skiddyiom]

We have just had a briefing about the announcement.

As expected, 6 RJ100's are going to be subleased (the newer, steep-approach modded ones), 8 MAN routes suspended and 2 BHX. So far, they haven't said to whom the RJ's are going.

No mention of EMB145's coming the other way. Fleet size to be 50 comprising: 28 x ERJ145's, 13 x RJ100/146's, 8 x Dash 8Q300 & 1 x B767.

So, what next? Good news would make a change from cut, cut, cut.

skiddy

[False Capture]

The route suspension that Daza announced is correct. 8 Routes suspended at MAN – 11th September - Shannon, Zurich; Winter 2005 - Cork, Nice, Pisa, Rome, Stuttgart and Venice. 2 Routes suspended at BHX – Winter 2005 - Rome, Vienna.

BACX are retaining 3 BAe146s (IOM, INV and MAN) which they had previously annnounced would be going.

BHX will have 5 RJ100s, 4 will be based at LCY (crewed from EDI) and one maintenance airframe.

[madmax100]

5 RJ's @ BHX
4 RJ's @LCY (crewed from EDI)
1 RJ Spare / Maintanence

[no, no, no]

skiddy - which MAN routes have been suspended? Are they the ones Daza mentioned?

[flyguy532]

so what do all these cut backs at manchester mean for the crew there. arethey ona be laid off. i have friend who just started and is only on a 6month contract will they be laid off at end of that.

[San Expiry]

skiddy

Is that THE announcement or is there more to follow? Who is taking those routes out of MAN - surely BA aren't throwing them to the opposition?

What of the 146 and RJ crews- 3 less 146 and 6 less RJs gives a lot of surplus crew. Any plans for the poor devils?:ugh:

[skiddyiom]

San Expiry,

All we know is what I put there. As far as I am aware, no-one is taking the routes over, but GB are running new routes to various holiday destinations - presumably taking the slots left by BACX.

As for crews, we've been told there will be no redundancies so I would assume that is for both air & ground crew - but I'll believe that when it happens!

skiddy

[Dash-7 lover]

Those people that are going to be made redundant know already and have done for a while. The announcement just makes it official and allows the 90 day 'consultancy' period for these people to start.

[False Capture]

San Expiry,
Compared with the 2005-6 business plan, BACX are retaining 3 BAe146s but getting rid of 6 RJ100s. This equates to a loss of 3 airframes.

BACX are dropping 8 MAN routes whereas BHX are only losing 2 routes, however, it's interesting to note the number of BHX based RJ100s. According to the business plan the intention was to have 8 based at BHX, today's announcement results in only 5 being based at BHX.

Not a good day for BHX RJ100 pilots.:uhoh:

[stalling attitude]

As a matter of interest what was the size of the Brymon and BRAL fleets before the merger to form BACX because it seems to shrink almost weekly

[MaxReheat]

It all seems so long ago, halcyon days before the reign of chaos was imposed. Numbers approx but something like......BRAL 12 J41s, similar number of ATPs, 5 146s - Brymon 10 Dash 8 and between the two companies around 30 Emb 145s so a roundish total of 70 aircraft. I recall that CXs proud boast immediately post merger was that it was the second largest regional airline in Europe. Nowadays blink and you've missed it. Sad times for so many innocent victims.:{

[skiddyiom]

I think it was around 98 when we first started - now down to 50 in 3 years. Real positive investment and commitment that isn't it?

The Dash's are all due return next year, a couple of the RJ's in 2007, where will that leave us with no replacements in sight?

Can't help thinking that this looks like asset stripping by BA on a grand scale.

Ah well, best be grateful I've still got a job.

skiddy

[HZ123]

Was this asset stripping then mainly aimed at getting a supply of pilots, as what BA payed for the two / three outfits I beleive about £50 millions is small fry when compared to paying for pilots.

[False Capture]

The following has taken place in the last 3 years:
1) Demonstrate a once profitable company is now making a loss year after year.
2) Reduce the number of bases.
3) Reduce the number of fleets and concentrate on 50 seater a/c.
4) Introduce a new 'non-BA' management team.
5) Get rid of: secondee pilots, ex-BAR cabin crew and the RJ100.

Finally, the steps required before DE departs:
6) Replace the Dash 8s and RJ100s with Embraers.
7) Sell what appears to be a small loss making regional airline to the management team at a knock-down price.

[skiddyiom]

Airframes earmarked are G-CFAB - G-CFAH. Newest frames, least hours.

skiddy

[FlyboyUK]

This thread currently running in rumours and news may also be of interest

BA Red (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=185760)