Amphibians

[FlyingForFun]

Just a hypothetical situation, but something I was discussing at work today because the weather was so appaling.

We were talking about setting up a float-plane school in England. First of all we'd need one of my school's instructors to qualify as a float-plane instructor. (I volunteered for that one, of course!) We'd need a piece of water to fly from - I suggested Blackpool's South Pier, but I don't know whether Blackpool Council or the pier's owner would agree that's a good idea.... but never mind. Let's assume we can find an examiner, too, because there's no point running a course and not being able to organise the test at the end of it.

The only thing we're missing now is an aircraft. We pretty much ruled out anything other than an amphibian before we started, since we don't have an AvGas supply near the water, nor do we have any engineering facilities there. It needs to have a CofA if we're using it for training. And it needs to be cheap to run and maintain.

So - what options do we have for aircraft that meet these requirements?

FFF
--------------------

[VP8]

Cessna Caravan on floats....if I win the lottery this is for me!!

others Maule/Cub/Lake

Good luck anyway

VEEPS:ok:

[Gertrude the Wombat]

You can get an amphibian one of these

<====

[MLS-12D]

"Amphibious" and "cheap to run and maintain" are essentially mutually exclusive ... but you already knew that.

The Zenair CH701 amphibs are relatively inexpensive; but I don't think that you could run one on a normal C of A.

You might consider an Aeronca Champ, a Citabria, or a Cub Special ... but I think you'll find that the capital cost of amphib floats is pricey. E.g., a new set of Wipline 2100 amphibs (suitable for small airplanes like those I've mentioned) will set you back US$28,500, which doesn't include the cost of shipping or the STC kit.

[yakker]

The Seawind is the machine
http://www.seawind.biz/

Now if only those 6 numbers come up.

[QDMQDMQDM]

The regs on water landing are tood restrictive to make it worthwhile. Scotland is a different story, I understand.

[deice]

It seems to me that water flying is rather restricted in most parts of Europe for some unconceivable reason.
Not so in the north however, for example Sweden.

You'll find thousands of lakes of which only a few are restricted and seaplane training as well.

Instead of investing heavily in a training outfit in the UK, why not take a trip up here? Or create a package deal...
We already have the planes, examiners, instructors and experience, plus tons of water!



:D

[AerBabe]

Get a PBY ... then you don't need to land on water. I'm sure the lovely Chuck could help you find one. ;)

[skydriller]

It seems to me that water flying is rather restricted in most parts of Europe for some unconceivable reason.

We do seem to have an excess of fun police in Europe dont we? kind of depressing:( Especially when you consider our illustrious Seaplane history...

....wish I hadnt thought of that...

SD..

[FlyingForFun]

All comments about how the rules would make this difficult are, of course, noted - but please remember I did specify that it was only hypothetical, I'm aware of all the restrictions, and I'm not actually planning on doing this - it's just that when we were talking about it in the club-house the choice of aircraft was the area about which I knew the least!

MLS, thanks for the info on the Wiplines. I have to admit to never having realised that it's possible to get amphibian floats to fit to common aircraft. I always assumed that Cubs, Cessnas and the like either had wheels or floats, but not both, and that amphibians are generally custom built to be amphibians from the start. So I've learnt something new from this thread, which is just why I asked the question!

Any more input welcome, of course!

FFF
--------------

[Tinstaafl]

Why not a C172 on floats? Not sure if amphibs are available though. Piper Cubs & C152s can also be float equipped but not sure if they can handle the extra weight of amphibs.

I did my float rating in Florida in a C180 on amphibs. A/c is based at an airport so maintenance & fueling is easy. The airport has a designated landing area on an adjacent lake + there are any number of other lakes in the area.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Why not a C172 on floats? Mr Faure says: "The floatplane version of the 172 has a useful load of only 634 pounds, 359 pounds less than the landplane. Three of the FAA's theoretical 170-pound adults weigh a total of 510 pounds, leaving 124 pounds of useful load for fuel, or about 20 gallons. That's assuming the three people aren't taking anything heavier than a wallet apiece, of course."

An amphibian version would be worse of course.

[PH-UKU]

Now I think you will find that it depends on what type of 172 .... and whether it has an STC that might also raise the MTOW - eg Penn Yann 190HP Conversion.

I am part-owner of a 172 Reims Rocket floatplane (similar to Hawk XP). 210HP 6-cylinder CS-prop. On wheels 1553lbs empty, 947lb useful load.

MTOW is 2500lbs

On straight floats (EDO2440Bs) she has basic empty weight of 1768lbs = 732lbs useful load. Floats weigh 340lbs, landgear weighs 125lb.

(Full tanks (39imp.gal) + 2 POB plus 124lbs) or 3 POB and 220lbs fuel (30gal)

Later 172 models have MTOW of 2550lbs giving 782lbs useful load (extra 7 gallons).

There are only two types of amphib floats available for the 172, and we are in the middle of the process of obtaining EASA certification for one of them ;)

The amphibs are 100lbs heavier than the straights. We reckon to have therefore 632lb useful on amphibs with possibility of raising that further (adding STC'd STOL kit).

There is a 180HP SuperCub out at Como operating on amphibs (I-BUFF)

--------------
PS If anyone is interested in flying floats in Scotland or becoming a shareholder in the amphib (then you can fly solo :E ) do send me a message.