The official 'I hate BA crew thread'.

[keeperboy]

Dear All,

Well this one is for those of you who for some reason or another despise BA cabin crew. You feel the need to pop up in nearly every BA thread even if you have no idea of the issues being discussed, simply to take a sweeping swipe at BA cabin crew, their conditions, of the 'lowliness' of the job itself.

Simply have a look at threads like "BA and attendance", "crew allowences in Willie Walshes sights", "BA again" etc etc. In fact, ANY thread with "BA" in it. You will see the same users that pop in, with something un-related, negative and derogatory to say. They don't fly, and many of them admit to not even working for BA at all. But for reasons unknown, they can't help but take a sweeping swipe at ALL BA cabin crew.

Here are a few choice quotes:

"BA = Bloody awful? Crew with attitude and with no customer service training whatsoever"

"BA longhaul offers dire customer service, but the crew don't really care because they're all asleep...."resting" from what?

"I refer to simple things like being offered a drink more than once in a twelve hour flight"

"BA crews now frantically searching the dictionairies for the word customer"

Now, I am not going to be so naieve as to say that it is simply not possible to have a bad flight on BA, or to encounter a lazy crew member. But these sweeping, vague statements are not necessary.

If you are ever on a BA longhaul flight and all the crew are sleeping, please , demand to see the CSD at once as this is completely against company policy and DOES NOT HAPPEN. Likewise ,if you receive one drink on a twelve hour flight.

I am NOT saying that people shouldn't be entitled to their own opinion, or to post about their negative experiences. But please, if you have a complaint to be made, please be a little more specific. Is it really every BA flight you travel on that offers "dire service". Was it every one of the cabin crew on your flight that had "attitude".

Otherwise, and without being sarcastic, I would be seriously interested to know what makes you all so 'anti BA'.

And finally, take a look at the SKYTRAX website. Its URL is www.airlinequality.com. Check out the "passenger opinions" pages for hundred of people that have travelled with us. The posts are overwhelmingly positive.

[lesarcs1]

Well, you're right, but people can only comment on their experiences.

I fly long haul economy regularly and have to admit (for various reasons) I always try to avoid BA.

With respect to cabin crew, on a recent flight from Barbados:

- All cabin crew (yes ALL, in economy anyway) treated the flight like some sort of teenage party - regularly blocking the aisles for 10 minutes at a time whilst they chatted up the groups of lads who had taken their eye.

- All cabin crew (ALL economy) offered only 1 drink to passengers for the flight - I was greeted with glares and frowns when I asked.

- No cabin crew slept on the flight, which is virtuous - however no passengers slept either due to the cackles of laughter and shouts coming from the galley.

- My girlfriend asked 3 seperate crew for a replacement headset as it only had one earpiece - all 3 suggested she could make do.

- A drink spilt in the galley was not mopped up for the entire flight - resulting in Diet Coke footprints up and down the aisle.

You are right - I'm sure this isn't representative of BA crew in general but I have never had this sort of experience with Virgin, SAA, American, Emirates or any other airline I have travelled on recently.

[worldtraveller]

I choose to travel BA where ever possible. I think it speaks volumes to see crew still at BA who have been there for many years. Something quite rare in the airline industry these days as many airlines (and cabin crew) see it as something to do for a 'larf' (sic) for a while before moving on elsewhere.

Keeperboy, I followed your link to SKYTRAX and can only echo what I read from recent posts:

19/07 "...well done british airways, service and staff excellent..."

19/07 "...cabin crew average to good...."

19/07 "....excellent high level of cabin staff throughout...."

10/07 "...flight attendants were great, a case of seen and not heard..."

I was also suprised to read some posts regarding other airlines, most notable Virgin. I thought their service was quite good, but the posts seem quite negative!

From my experience, BA crews are the only crew that seem to actually enjoy their job. When I fly other airlines, such as ANA or Singapore, I find the service faultless. However, they lack 'humaness' if such a word exisits. It is almost as if I am being served by robots. BA crew always seem to be able to crack a joke or have a chat, something you would never encounter on the far eastern carriers.

I think a problem for some people is that they do not fly very often, or they usually use charter or low cost flights and expect the earth from the likes of BA. They remember the service that they received on carrier 'A' five years ago and compare it with the likes of BA today. However, i'm sure that if they were to fly carrier 'A' again today, they would notice a big difference. This even applies to the far eastern carriers. I in particular was a little shocked by a recent flight in Raffles Class on SQ. It appears major cost cutting has been imposed.

I say BA, keep up the good work.

[Middle Seat]

I find Skytrax to be a recepticle of rants, even though there are posts describing a pleasant experience. It seems to me that people find it easier to complain than to compliment.

as for BA in particular, well based on my dozen or so flights on them in the last 10 years, I'd take a BA crew any day over some of the crews I've encountered on U.S. domestic flights.

[jerrystinger]

I don't think you help matters by starting this topic.
I think it's unfair to say all BA flights are poor, but as a rule of thumb I prefer not to use them on longhaul flights over 8 hours because their service levels compared to other carriers isn't very good. That kind of comment is bound to upset loyal employees like yourself, keeperboy, but on a BA flight to BKK or SIN, GRU or MRU (ie v long!) you do receive the minimum - and often grudgingly. Fact.

I used to fly BA to Aus, but you would get a meal after take off and then a rushed meal 1.5hrs before landing.....and sweet FA for the 9+hrs in the middle - unless the passengers got up and ask the crew reading their papers! On Singapore, Thai, JAL and Virgin passengers are offered food and drinks (by their seats) frequently...without the "I'm due my break" attitude I used to get from BA. Sorry, but it's true.
I think other airline crews don't consider themselves superior nor do they think they do the best job in the world, but unfortunately BA has always been the opposite and had crews with over active egos. Where do BA crews get the idea that they do an amazing job from? Maybe you could enlighten us....
My wife never felt comfortable asking for anything on our AUS trips with BA and that, I think, sums things up.
As for opinions/surveys they all seem to contradict one another - according to one poll ASIANA airlines is top and BA not even in top 10! ????
I hope things change!

[purr777]

For me the problem with BA is the lack of consistency, especially on long flights: one trip can be good, while another can be dire. BA domestic and European are brilliant, but BA longhaul is not my first choice and not my last.
I don't give the crews the chance to have attitude as I'm not the one stacking trays! :)

[chopperchav]

I fly often, usually business and after last experience will never fly BA again. My wife had to fly on a separate flight with 2 month old baby and cabin crew wouldn't lift a finger to make journey less stressfull.
She also left pram in baggage hall and we have been unable to retrieve it from BA and have had to buy new one.
Recently flew Monarch and Easyjet and thought they were brilliant. My impression is that BA morale is rock bottom.

[keeperboy]

Jerrystinger I totally take on board your points re: BA service levels.

I started this topic in order to try and gain an understanding as to why some people are so anti BA to the point that they join cabin crew forums on attendance etc just to antagonise and insult us.

I guess as cabin crew we have little impact over what we actually provide in the cabin. Personally, I find it embarassing having to give the 'deli box' as the second service on a long sector such as LHR-SIN. However, that is what we have to work with. So I do my best to offer that deli box to each and every passenger with a smile and respect.

On 95% of flights that I have worked on we come around with juice and water in between services. Albeit if you happen to have your eyes closed when one of these rounds occur it may seem 'hours' before you see crew in the cabin when in reality this isn't true.

I know personally I give 110% on flights I work on. I don't think I am superior to anyone but I do think I have the best job in the world. I love it, and I like to think that it comes across in my attitude when working in the cabin. And I have to say I find most (not all) of my collegues share the same view.

We are not saying we are perfect and I am all for hearing when we fail to meet expectations, providing those expectations are real-world. But the constant negativeness towards us from people that have a personal grudge against BA or it's crews are just demoralising.

One of the great things about working for an airline is the ability to get cheap tickets on other airlines. I love to travel and use other airlines extensively. And I can say from a totally un-biased approach that we are at least 'in the middle'. There are airlines more consistant than us, but a hell of a lot more that are much worse.

As for SKYTRAX.....It states on it's website that it's 'awards' are based on the worlds BIGGEST passenger survey.

BA came 5th overall and achieved a 'four star' rating.

[PropellerPaul]

I flew B.A. shorthaul about two weeks ago & I have to say they were very good. It was an A319, two thirds full & it appeared like there were loads of crew. Being Crew myself, for a number of years, I have to say they couldn't have been more proffessional & the purser on the flight I could have 'hugged' she was so lovely! Now I'm not starting A 'Let's Knock This Airline...' thread, but has anyone ever flown with Air Canada...? Oh my god, I've never met such a bunch of crew that didn't get-on & were arguing with each other during the cabin service. The 'Demo' was a joke. No individual screen. Un-comfy seat. average food.. Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that every single flight is different, and so are we, so what's good for you might not be good for me... we could go on for ever, but I do think B.A. is up there with the major players as being an airline of choice..

[jetsetterbfs]

I must say I have not always been a huge supporter of BA - I have, in my own personal experiences had some rather unpleasant flights.

However, having had a few recent flights I will take it all back - I've found the BA crew to be more than helpful. My colleague and I (travelling on a staff ticket) were given a tour of the aircraft, including the crew rest areas - which are pretty unknown in my airline! The purser in economy also filled a bag with wine, beer, miniatures etc. for us, and managed to get us an upgrade on the following sector. I am aware that this is probably very against company policy, but it made such a difference to have been given that extra special treatment.

Besides all that, the crew were always coming through offering juice and water. I never felt the need to press my call bell for anything. (Not that I would, anyway!) Compared to Qantas, they were superb. With Qantas, I was offered lunch and breakfast - drinks on top. That was all I had on a thirteen hour flight. Very disappointing.

That's not to say I still haven't had the unpleasant experiences, but the same could be said for my airline, and any airline. If I have appeared "anti-BA" in the past, it has not been the case. I am actually quite pro-BA as an airline, but anti- some (minority) BA crews' attitudes towards my own airline and staff. It is the crew who think they are special because they work for BA that cause me annoyance. I agree they are in a large minority, but they are perhaps the most vocal on this message board.

That, I believe, is why you may find a lot of "anti-BA" sentiment. It is always those with the most stringent views who express the firmest opinions.

Bring on the moderates!

[The Greaser]

All airlines have good crews, all have bad crews. I returned from Orlando on Virgin recently where the service, against my previous Virgin experiences, was absolutely hopeless, the girls did the absolute minimum necessary and were very surly with it. Some of them clearly seemed hungover. I haven't flown BA for along time but I am sure that on average they are no better or worse than most other airlines.

[emmathestar]

every airline can be picked on, i happen to think BA are,as they say, the worlds favourite airline.

Say your opinion yes, slag them off on every post, no.
xxx

:ok:

[keeperboy]

I think BA has a bit of a bad rep because some years ago it went through a phase when staff morale was really low, therefore customer service suffered. In the late 80's early 90's they really were the worse airline around. However, BA has come out the other end now, and over the last 18 months taken on over 1,000 new cabin crew which has given 'fresh breath' into the company.

'The Worlds Favourite Airline' wasn't actually a self attached arrogant title because we thought we were so great either. BA branded itself 'Worlds favourite airline' the first year that it carried more international passengers than any other airline in the world.

Thanks for the positive and even average posts guys! Nice to hear that some people enjoy flying with us. :D

[TopBunk]

Keeperboy

Your defending your colleagues does you proud, and I'm sure that you do give 110% every flight.

BA Shorthaul do deliver a fine service about 99% of the time, to a pretty high and consistent level.

The problem BA faces is in Longhaul, where, face up to it, for a substantial proportion of the crews, the prime driver is getting the service done so that the breaks can be maximised. This, as has been said earlier, is in direct contrast to virtually every other European, Middle East and Asian carrier. It is something that needs to be addressed and is the reason for the 'inconsistency' referred to earlier.

On a daylight flight to the eastern seaboard of the USA, while the break required is either 20 or 40 minutes, crew frequently take about 1h30 minimum - this on a flight which:

Most passengers are awake for the full duration of
It is daylight outside
It is UK daytime
The flight is about 8 hours max long


One of the big problems in BA is the separation of CC into IFS (In Flight Service) from FC in Flight Ops, with the resultant non-accountability of the CC to the Captain for the service delivery.

[woodpecker]

TopBunk

Further to you comments regarding sectors "across the pond", sectors the other way to TLV used to be shorthaul with the Cabin Crew on duty for the entire flight.

Converting to the B777 I thought I had left TLV behind me but there it was, now a longhaul service.

I was amazed to see the CSD allocating bunk rest on a sector of 4hr 30mins. This was at a time when the Carribean was being operated with AML cabin crew who did twelve hour, two sector, duties with no rest facility at all!

[Bart O'Lynn]

Its quite simple. Ba lhr longhaul is jobsworth unionised over managed (badly) shambles. Anything else is just posturing and denial.
Its not about hating them , its about fact. Each individual is capable of high standards and personnal pride but the self perpetuating jobswoth monster they join soon asimilates them, or overshadows them or deals with them.

Keeperboy , your arguments, though valid in the world of BA have no effect on people on this board who do twice the duties that ba do without all the trimmings. Thats also a fact, so trying to justify the BA work ethic to people who work twice as hard is just pissing agianst the wind.

[TFlyguy]

As has been said before you will always get the good and the bad no matter which airline you fly with!

However, for attitude, you need look no further than VS crews in Concord House at LGW!

Is it SO difficult to say "Thank you" for holding the lift doors? Is it SO difficult to say"Could you press floor 2 please"? Apparently the answer is "yes" it is too difficult!

I am also amazed by a previous comment saying the Cabin Crew should be accountable to he Captain for the on-board service - we dont tell you how to fly - don't tell us how to push a cart!

[Bart O'Lynn]

TF,

The captain is the accountable manager in, law, on the aircraft when it is doors closed and despatched. The captain is usually (except Ba) the accountable manger for all aspects of the flight.Its not about telling you how to do your job, rather ensuring that the job is done properly, and people are accountable for their shortcomings. This authority is usually devolved to the senior for practicable purposes and then to the maincrew etc etc.. However the lawful instructions that you give out to passengers, (and all your authority in the cabin) has its legitimacy in being issued on BEHALF OF THE AIRCRAFT COMMANDER ,( not the csd,senior etc etc)who in turn is mandated through the air navigation order.

This break in the chain of command at BA is the problem as the cabin seem only answerable to themselves, or a like minded greater organism. A dangerous situation. For a further organic analogy or comparison. If you dont clean the mould in fridge it becomes wide spread and thus the norm. A fridge cant clean itself.

No need to get on your high horse about being told to do your jobs, but as an aside you are not qualified to tell us how to fly, or i'm sure you would,but I am completely upto speed as to how to do your job as an ex cabin crew member.

Additionally people have the same opinion of your company at concorde house, if TF signifies what i think it does.

on time is the only time



:ok: :ok:

[KTPops]

As has been said before you will always get the good and the bad no matter which airline you fly with!
However, for attitude, you need look no further than VS crews in Concord House at LGW!

TFlyGuy, Seriously! I find that so offensive!

On the one hand you are talking about not tarring everyone with the same brush because of a handful of bad experiences then you go and perpetuate the :mad: that this thread is based on!

As workers within the customer service industry we should know by now that we are always going to encounter rude people and (SHOCK HORROR) that is going to include crew from another, or indeed our own airline. All this " I hate BA" or "VS crew are so up themselves" nonsense is so childish and petty, it reminds me of being at school!

I personally judge people on my own experience. If you are rude to me then I look at YOU and not your uniform. You won't catch me on the back of the crew bus slagging off BA or BMI, oh, and for the record if you hold the door for me, I WILL say "thank you" despite having that ghastly red uniform on.

KTP

[TFlyguy]

Well thank you for your courtesy KTPops - it IS appreciated.

I have nothing against "the red uniform" indeed i have good freinds who fly the Virgin Skies (was going to say "fly the flag" but I'm sure that would annoy others!)

And I also like to take others as I see them - and i'm afraid that in Concorde House that IS what i see!

Just the other week I saw a VS lady almost trip over her luggage rather than just ask me to press floor 2.

I dont ask too much just basic manners.

[KTPops]

I still don't think you get my point TFlyGuy!

I can totally accept that you have come accross rude Virgin crew. I have encountered a fair few in my time at VS! I just think that your comments are contributing to the growing attitude on this forum that we should badmouth each other because of the uniform we wear.

Whether you intend to or not, you are perpetuating this attitude by your comments. What point are you trying to make by saying :

Just the other week I saw a VS lady almost trip over her luggage rather than just ask me to press floor 2.

You are trying to imply that this is what one should expect from crew at Virgin and I believe this to be wrong and quite careless of you.

KTP

[Flobadob]

Excuse an air trafficker dropping in on this thread, but as a member of the BOAC 'Junior Jet Club' since the age of 8 I would like to stand up for all the BOAC/BA cabin crew I have flown with over the years.

They operate to the highest professional standards and have to put up with some right irritating t**ts who treat them like lowlife :p

Keep up the good work, some us do appreciate the work you do. :ok:

PS. A big thank you to Anne on the BOAC flight from LHR to JFK 21 Sept 1974 who gave me a double lolly and took me to see the drivers in the pointy end.:O

[Nearly Man]

purr777 hit the nail on the head, it's lack of consistency.
BA should have it in it's power to even out the service!

[jerrystinger]

Flobadob - LHR-JFK 1974??? Have you just woken up? Things have changed since then dude.

[Flobadob]

jerrystinger- I flew BA to FRA last month, I didn't get a lolly and didn't met the pointy-end drivers this time:(



The BA girls/boys are still the best cabin-crew over the 30 odd years I have flown.

Oh yes and VS are just about on par too! :ok:

[batninth]

Could I suggest that maybe anyone posting to this thread who isn't actually aircrew should first be made to work for 3 months doing the hours & duties that the BA/VS etc CC have to do. If, at the end of those three months, you're still standing toe-to-toe with these guys, then maybe post comments about their standard of service.

For my part, I suspect that within one month in working early & late rosters, having to deal with all the organisational problems that crop up behind the scenes and the myriad types of beligerent air travellers that I would probably end up taking one passenger on each flight to the front and marmalising them in full view of the others as a warning to them to behave. (Hmm..idea : Air Beligerent - we scare our passengers into flying) :D

Anyway, to the starting point of the thread. As a society we want to travel by air more, and thus the airlines need more planes & CC to work them. With the growth comes the problem - a basic lowering of standards of the folks who get employed (and a lowering of standards of the folks who travel as well!). Clearly some companies are trying very hard to keep up those standards despite cost & operational pressures, but it is quite likely that sometimes, somewhere there will be a minority of staff who do not act as the company would like. Is it really fair to brand the whole organisation through that minority when the answer lies in addressing through the management with direct responsibility for ensuring that the sort of behaviour is nipped in the bug and corrected.

However to BA - we flew BA to New York earlier this year and the CC couldn't have been nicer when my wife was ill on the flight out. I've flown BA shuttle flights and at the end of a long day, a small amount of humour in the cabin actually makes the flight enjoyable when you're sitting on a plane when you would prefer to be at home already. I prefer to judge BA CC by those experiences.

VS too - we had to come home from the US in hurry through berievement and we were treated very,very well.

I agree with emmathesatr - take it up any problems with the responsible managers, and if they don't respond go upwards.

[bozzy]

apparantly gb airways cabin crew staff surpasss the ba staff on customer service surveys

just thought i would tell you all that info

bye!

[OZcabincrew]

and BA still only came 4th or 5th in the Skytrax Airline of the Year Awards!hahaha, only stirring the pot!!!!

Oz

[itsinthebag]

I know its raining out, but why don't you sensitive flowers go out and get a life, rather than wasting your time bitching on here and getting all hot under the collar? Just an idea!;)

[atcojd]

Please forgive another air trafficker butting in on your thread but I am a former BA cabin crew member. BA crews receive some of the best training in the industry. I used to fly shorthaul from Gatwick and we worked incredibly hard on our flights to make sure the passengers had a great flight with us and much of the feedback we got from the passengers reflected that.

Like all crews, we were grossly underpaid for the responsibility we had, but we made the best of it and many passengers commented how much the crews seemed to enjoy their work.

The only downside I ever encountered was the whole BA internal politics. To a few, especially the older crew, seniority was such a big deal, and the fact that you wouldnt be considered for promotion until your seniority number came up was a bit disheartning. The other issue was the Heathrow superior to Gatwick which in turn was superior to regional, was a bit depressing. Several times on night stops we would be ignored by the Heathrow crews staying in the same hotel. Having said that those crew members were very much in the minority and the vast majority of the crews I had the pleasure of working with gave 110% onboard.

[apaddyinuk]

As a Ba longhaul crewmember I really have to comment as much as I would rather keep my mouth shut.

I must admit that yes we are inconsistant. The problem here is we simply have Pursers who want to adapt the service their own way and yes, maximising crew rest is a major problem in BA! In my previous airline we didnt have crew rest, even on flights as long as 14 hours and the service delivery remained the same for every flight, even our bar tops were dressed the exact same way and you would be reported if you put as much as a stack of plastic cups in the wrong place.

Many of the new crew on my fleet have problems deciphering what is standard after a few months because they find that only on a handful of flights are things done to standard. But at the end of the day, I have heard very VERY few remarks from passengers getting off my flights to suggest that we are doing something wrong, that post about the gent coming back from BGI certainly raised an eyebrow as this is one of my routes and I certainly have never noticed any behaviour like this since I joined BA and this is something which should have been brought to the attention of the CSD there and then in order to prevent it from happening again, most of our CSD's do indeed retell stories of shameful crew during our briefings asking us not to follow down the same path.

What I do hear about from the passengers is the quality (or lack of it) from our handling agents around the world which is something that definately needs looking at.

But just the other day a relatively young chap (early 30's) who was perhaps sitting in the worst seat right down the back of a 777 next to the galley and could probably hear our crews conversations (nothing rude...just humourous stuff and putting the world to right...its good team building chatting to your crew on a long flight and a good sign of a good bunch of crew) got off the plane and as he passed me at doors three he shook my hand and said thanks for a great flight and "you guys are the reason I wont fly anyone else"!!!! He continued to do this at door 2 and to the CSD, it was at this point she noticed he was a Goldcard holder despite it not showing on the PIL...

So at the end of the day I feel yes, we do have our faults, and yes we do have crew who do tarnish the reputation for everyone else but you need to remember that for such a large airline you are bound to have a few who slipped through the net. But I also feel that everyone loves to hate the big guy, regardless of their experiences of the company. I personally love BA moreso than the 3 other flag carriers Iv worked for and I wont be leaving here in a hurry!

[OzzieO]

I think any large airline is going to be inconsistant to be honest. I used to work for BMA and with a base of 50 people when I started at LHR it was far easy to manage those numbers and mould people into a particular way of working.

Take a workforce of 12,000 cabin crew and you get problems.

I am a purser on WW LHR at BA and the amount of time crew ask me how I would like the service done never ceases to amaze me.

I always reply "to standard please" which gets me a few raised eyebrows. Far easier if we all sing of the same hymn sheet.

As much as BA gets "bashed" they still receive 1000's of interested applicants wanting to join the airline every week!

[Infadel]

As pax and flying a couple of long flights a year I can say that BA staff do their best uder sometimes difficult circumstances.
As a steerage passenger I have no complaints, you pay for what you get no point in being rude to the staff, and I've always found that a stroll back to the galley results in a smile and a laugh.
I know I'm a first time poster and that you think it's a plant but it isn't, My wife is due back from Sidney on Friday morning with BA and had a great trip over.
As for the "ahem" eldely miserably stewardess on our flight to Mexico earlier this year I hope she took my advice and her career might lie in baggage handling.
Just my view as a pax (hope I'm using the right terms)
All the best

[backseatjock]

:hmm: Working in the aviation business, I log around 150 separate sectors each year, both short-medium and long haul, almost all in C or J class and around 70% with BA.

Agree totally with others who cite lack of consistency as a problem with BA today, especially long-haul it seems, but a lack of morale also seems to be an increasing factor again. Why is this, I wonder.

Often, if you do complain, the attitude very much seems to be 'I agree' but please fill in one of these pointless complaint forms because there is nothing we can do. Cabin crew can not be blamed for that policy, or for the fact that even if you resort to the dreaded form filling, at best you receive a standard computer letter back which seems to say 'we hear what you say but surveys tell us we are wonderful so your complaint is is an isolated case'.

Handling agents at overseas stations seem to be largely contracted out these days and rarely give a s**t about the BA brand - again not a single thing cabin crew can do about this.

Nor do they control the ever variable standard of catering ordered, the failure to load enough bread or predict correct food choice for passenger load, the ever-decreasing 'larder' on long-haul or the quite embarrassing lack of content in J-class wash bags, on even the longest long-haul sectors.

Despite all this, they do take the cr*p for the increasing number of passengers (myself included sometimes) who get just a little irritated by what appears to be the degradation of standards in the cabin of aircraft flying in the livery of one of the world's best airlines.

The bean counters in Waterside need to travel a little more perhaps and experience how other airlines are lifting their own standards to match or exceed BA in many areas. The flat bed seats are no longer enough - note how others are developing their own (Virgin quite superb new beds), intelligent IFE, internet access etc.

Note how Lufthansa and others really do offer a 'no-one in the middle seat' policy in short-haul C and recognise that little things like that will soon add up to create a problem if not checked.

I do not work for BA (although my ex wife did tx in with the BCal takeover many moons ago - has since left!) but do feel for crews who seem to get as frustrated by all this as many of the SLF who have posted on this thread do.

There are bad and good among all crews. BA may not always be the best, but the airline is certainly still up there among the best of them. It is tough for everyone in the aviation business these days, but constantly cutting back on the quality and standard of service will surely one day go too far. I hope the bean counters and process people at the holiday camp by Heathrow will eventually recognise this.

[ma11achy]

Sorry for the late post (better late than never).

I'm a card carrying member of the SLF community and have flown on a fair few airlines in the past 10 years of travelling with my career.

Long haul trips usually to Asia, S. America, N. America, etc. Short haul trips from SNN or LHR to Europe. I must say, BA cabin crew have to be the most consistent, professional and courteous staff on ANY airline I have travelled on, bar none. I'm speaking from travelling in both Economy and Business (although mostly Economy these days, with shrinking budgets).

I love to travel BA and will always try my best (or beg/bribe/annoy the person organising) to use a BA option to my destination.

Keep up the great work girls and guys, you're a credit to the airline community and have often made a weary traveller feel at home, on his way home.

[brookhouse]

Boarding a BA flight to return to the UK is usually a wonderful experience. Three weeks in Delhi makes BA's club cabin appear a comfortable oasis in which to sink for a few hours. The service is pretty standard (production line pap/Halal meat etc.) but the endless PA's - "I'd like to introduce Tracy who will be looking after you in the .... .... .... cabin" - are truly AWFUL. Often you encounter a Joyce Grenfel type who loves the mike and believes I have an interest in her position or very large (we're talking BA) on-board team. Just get me home in some form of discreet comfort and cut all the prattle.

[Mr R Sole]

However in this day and age it is the bad travel experiences that always stay with us for far longer then the pleasant travel experiences.

I remember my most recent 'Bad' BA experience far clearer than my most enjoyable BA flight.

I have to admit that BA crews are normally very welcoming when you board and addressing you by your name on the boarding card instead of 'Sir' is always a nice touch. However I recently travelled on a LGW based 737 and when I got on the Crew didn't say anything and barely acknowledged my presence whilst I showed my boarding card whilst refusing to make eye contact when I said hello and when I left they just stared blankly into space when I walked past. Made me quite annoyed!!! Manners cost nothing! I am glad I don't have those crewmembers working alongside me in my company!

I agree with the PA's being overdone. I now cringe when we pull on to stand while one of the folks at the pointy end tries to sound very upbeat and pleased at arriving 10 mins ahead of schedule whilst fumbling around for the flight number for us to remember for our bags when there is just one baggage carrousel at the destination anyway. With moving maps on the BA Airbus fleet as well as the long haul fleet then a lengthy PA on the route is not needed. Joe Bloggs knows where he is and when he is going to get there! No need for the Flight Deck to give a lengthy brief.

One good/funny thing I saw once recently was a departure at dusk and the CSD turned off all the reading lights in the cabin so when it came to the demo then Mr Pin-Striped Suit with his FT couldn't read so he was 'forced' into watching the demo. Was very funny seeing all the businessmen reaching up to turn the overhead light on and nothing happened. Worked a treat!

[bartygwailo]

I used to be BA crew. I really enjoyed it and met many dedicated and hard working individuals. What you can rarely escape in the UK however is an immature attitude that showing a positive attitude and interest in your work is "uncool". There was also very definitely a sad atmosphere of them and us in many aspects of the work. Pax versus crew, crew versus the office, long haul versus shorthaul, old contract versus new, the list could go on. I loved my job and liked and respected so many people I worked with, but ultimately I found it a depressing and negative workplace. I still fly BA and I like the homely atmosphere and feel very safe. I do think however that there are a minority, but depressingly vocal, group of staff at all levels of that airline who believe that the world owes them a living and that somehow they are doing their passengers and customers a favour by allowing them to use their airline.

What I really admire are the people working for BA who always come through and work so hard despite those issues I mentioned above.

[Classic]

I am also amazed by a previous comment saying the Cabin Crew should be accountable to he Captain for the on-board service - we dont tell you how to fly - don't tell us how to push a cart!

As the Captain, even in BA, is ultimately responsible for the customer service delivered on board his/her aircraft, it is quite reasonable to discuss the service planned for the passengers and to highlight any shortcomings that are apparent.

Especially when for example the cabin crew complete a full meal service on a full 747 within 2 hrs 10 of take-off (even in First) and then are woken only an hour before landing during which a full breakfast service is meant to be provided.

[738Capt]

The work that cabin crew put in is alot.

As always on this board the nameless heros step forward to abuse and belittle aircrew. What a joke.

Cabin crew are there for your safety and comfort.

STOP the abuse.

[Flying_Sarah747]

As for that comment about our crew rest...That's just how long it takes. I've been long haul for a month now and we've always delivered a proper service in around about the same time frame that was stated.

We're not cutting back on anything, but there's at least 5 crew in traveller if not more, so we are able to do a proper service in that time!

Leave us alone, stop being so jealous! If you think our conditions are so outrageously better than at your airline then quit and apply for BA!!!!! Easy!

[EI-CFC]

To be honest, I've come across some woeful cabin crew in my time. Then again, I've come across woeful check-in agents, woeful nurses, woeful admin staff, woeful telephone company reps..you name it.

However, most of the crew I've encountered on BA have been pretty good.

[Kremmen]

Could I suggest that maybe anyone posting to this thread who isn't actually aircrew should first be made to work for 3 months doing the hours & duties that the BA/VS etc CC have to do. If, at the end of those three months, you're still standing toe-to-toe with these guys, then maybe post comments about their standard of service.

No you may not suggest. SLF pay your wages. Some of us travel a wide variety of different airlines and have a GOOD appreciation of standards on board. We have the choice who to fly.

The work that cabin crew put in is alot.

As always on this board the nameless heros step forward to abuse and belittle aircrew. What a joke.

Cabin crew are there for your safety and comfort.

STOP the abuse.

While there may be some abuse 738cpt (nameless also) I would imagine in your elavated position you can see what is constructive criticism and what is not and have the intelligence to work out which is which. In fact, as the discussion here has been developing, you can see that the cabin crew's role is much more than safety and comfort. The cabin crew are the face of BA for many and if they don't measure up in service BA is tainted.

I broadly agree with the notion that longhaul BA varies enormously from "really quite atrocious" to "excellent". In my opinion from hundreds of flights: Shorthaul is usually "very good". In fact, BA is MUCH better than its US competitors who are often "AAbysmal" (even in Club/Business) and certainly in economy tend to outshine KLM, AF and Virgin (which I think is truly atrocious in Economy). Lufthansa Club was appaling in my one experience and ThomsonFly was excellent!

It IS great to be ending a long hard trip to get onto BA and relax. We know most CC work hard; we know some are outstanding; some flights are brilliant, and from experience we know that some crews need training to appreciate the "customer-facing" importance of their role.

If you boarded a long haul flight and your seat had the remains of the previous occupant's meal and detrious on it how would you react when a passenger mentioned this? Couldn't care less or would you get on with cleaning it up (with the passenger's help)?

If any CC are working this Christmas day are you doing it voluntarily or under duress? I had a special flight ruined by the poor service and attitude of the CC on Christmas Day.

It's all about service. Mostly you guys and gals are great. Just get rid of the bad apples.

[Classic]

As for that comment about our crew rest...That's just how long it takes. I've been long haul for a month now and we've always delivered a proper service in around about the same time frame that was stated.

We're not cutting back on anything, but there's at least 5 crew in traveller if not more, so we are able to do a proper service in that time!

Leave us alone, stop being so jealous! If you think our conditions are so outrageously better than at your airline then quit and apply for BA!!!!! Easy!


How come before bunks were introduced, the meal service was generally not complete until around 3 hours after take off, but now takes no longer than 2.15 or so? In a First Class restaurant I would expect at least 15 minutes between courses, but on a BA aircraft I have barely put the fork down and a dessert is put in front of me. The rush to get those blinds down and the passengers off to sleep so bunk rest can starts seems excessive.
I mention these things not out of jealousy from another airline, but as a shareholder who hears this sort of comment from other passengers.

[keeperboy]

Classic, as a shareholder you will be happy to hear that the meal service in First has been 'sped up' in response to customer feedback.

When we had the classic 747 without bunks, the seats in First were generally not lie-flat sleeper seats.

When the sleeper seats were installed passenger priorities seemed to change, especially on the routes where First is busiest....The middle east and east coast US routes. Passengers were complaining that the service was dragging into the night, when all they wanted was something light to eat before bedding down.

Whether the service in First is completed in 2.15min or 3 hours would have little bearing on our crew rest, as only half the First crew would be on rest at any one time anyway. There would always be someone there throughout the entire flight duration to serve you.

And don't forget, as a First passenger you have the freedom to choose when and what you eat. So if the courses are coming too fast and you want a more leisurly meal.....say so! :ok:

[normal_nigel]

BA Longhaul crew philosophy

1. Maximise bunk rest
2. Maximise bunk rest
3. Maximise bunk rest
4. Moan about full loads because it will infringe on maximum bunk rest
5. Shut the blinds on day setors to encourage everyone to sleep so we can maximise bunk rest
6. Rush the service to maximise bunk rest.
7. Did I mention maximising bunk rest?

[Anti-ice]

Oh nigel, it appears you hate (your own) BA crew more than most...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....... :yuk:

I can't help but wonder why but its no surprise to see you pour vitriol on the situation.

Why don't you apply to DHL and just have cargo to worry about dearheart instead of having to worry about all these wicked thoughts you have about your 'team' ?

Not very good CRM is it now ?

[normal_nigel]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Yes that sums up the crew alright

[wiggy]

Ah, N_N has a pop at Cabin Crew and it becomes a CRM issue.......you guys still don't get CRM, do you?

[normal_nigel]

Wiggy

Correct.

CRM is be nice to us or we will sulk, slag you off, and make unveiled threats about Optrex on our BASSA website.

[keeperboy]

BA Flight Crew philosophy:

1. Whinge about cabin crew daring to be entitled to decent rest

2. Whinge about BA cabin crew pay scales.

3. Whinge about cabin crew daring to be entitled to decent rest

4. Whinge about cabin crew not accepting hourly rate.

5. Whinge about cabin crew daring to be entitled to decent rest

6. Whinge about BASSA.

[wiggy]

keeperboy.

The C C I've flown with recently have been great with no aggro, genuinely friendly - guess you weren't on one of those trips...... Shall we rename this thread "The Official I'm BA Crew and I hate BA Crew thread"

[keeperboy]

Hey wiggy.

Sorry, there was no aggro intended in my previous post. I was just displaying how ridiculous and irrelevant sweeping comments like those of NN's can be.

Was I on one of your crews?
Depends! Were you whinging about cabin crew wanting to maximise their bunk rest, not take the hourly rate and complain they are to be the downfall of the entire BA structure?

If not, I would have been a right gem and we would have had a fantastic time. Indeed on my last ozzie trip the cabin crew and flight crew got on fantastically and we all socialised well together. :D

There are loads of fantastic people flying for BA, pilots and cabin crew alike. There are also a fair share of idiots in both groups.

OOF obviously isnt achieving its task of enforcing the mentality that we all have to work together as a team to remain competitive.

Its really strange. When I first started this post I thought it would be mainly SLF and other airline staff that would be airing their gripes.

I was really shocked when most of the aggro was from our own flight crew towards the cabin crew. Eh ho. :sad:

[normal_nigel]

If you think OOf has any benefit whatsoever then you are seriously misguided, or just not getting enough bunk rest.

Complete waste of time and money and I believe about to be shut down by WW

[keeperboy]

You are right, I must go to see BASSA tomorrow, I only got 3.5 hours bunk rest on my last trip versus the usual 4 hours. NOT HAPPY. :p

[Anti-ice]

I hope to god that Un-normal nigel is on worldwide,as i'd be bloody scared of getting on an aircraft under his control - he seems scary.
VERY scary.

[Classic]

Very scary

Sorry, I don't understand. Why scary?

[derekl]

If you'll permit a still, small voice from the cheap seats.

For nearly twenty years I flew BA, mainly transatlantic to the West Coast of the US. On the vast majority of trips, whether economy or Club, I was looked after very well by attentive crew. Most CC were intelligent, charming, genuinely nice people who seemed to work quite diligently to look after us.

I stopped flying BA because of the BA marketing department.

In their wisdom, they decided to discard the few remaining founder subscription members of the BA Executive Club. Basically, having told us that we'd all remain free Silver members for life (and so entitled to lounge access) -- six months later they withdrew membership. For the first time ever, I wrote to an airline CEO (Eddington) to complain about their cavalier and callous treatment of their most loyal customers. Complete waste of time.

I -- and all my company's staff -- have flown Virgin ever since (because they let me use their Clubhouse) and their service is at least as good as BA.

So it's not just the CC that affect choice -- it's all sorts of factors. BA won't get me back now, regardless of how super their CC are.

[MrHorgy]

To get this thread on track once more, I recently flew back from America to the UK with BA. As crew myself with a charter airline, and my mum working for BA, i'm fairly appreciative of the work they all put in, but of course, everyone is different.

On my outbound flight LGW-ORL the crew did not seem approachable. When I work an 8 hour flight in economy I have rest periods and find myself bored, so thinking they may be the same tried to engage them in conversation - "Can I see your galley", "What's it like at BA my mum keeps on at me to apply, "I'm crew how you find it" etc etc.. I was met with general grunts and disinterest. Crew as they walked up and down from what I saw did as much as was required and little more.

On the inbound sector it was far more pleasant ATL-LGW. (The original flight from ORL having gone tech and me being shifted around to get home) Crew seemed friendly and generally interested in what they were doing during services. Half the IFE in the aircraft had gone on strike so they spent a fair proportion of the flight trying to get it working. Eventually a very cheerful CSD offers me an upgrade to Steerage Plus (probably because I moved around the cabin for the benefit of other pax) which I gladly accepted. This time crew as they pass down actually engage ME in conversation, asking who I work for, etc.. and seem generally grateful I bothered to help them by moving.

Two very different accounts, but the bottom line is every flight is very different. BA crew seem very professional in their actions, but in some cases could be more approachable. But again, everyone's a different case!

Horgy

[Flying_Sarah747]

Just got one thing to say, which is...

Who actually wants to sit for more than 2-3 hours with a food tray in front of them????? NOBODY!!!!!!! The passengers are practically throwing the trays in our faces before we even have time to collect them in.

Get over it jealous people!!!!!!!!!!

[normal_nigel]

Scary why?

Because I repeat what I see on a disturbing amount of occasions.

- Bunk rest on a 4.40 Cairo?

- Moans on the bus when we are full of high revenue Club pax, paying our wages, because "the service will take ages"

- Threats from BASSA in their own newsletter to serve a bullying and intimidation charge on any captain who dares to interfere with CC rest, this after a captain on a Washington (remember all the cancelled ones?) decided he needed more people on duty and not in the bunks on a non-bunk rest flight?

- Remember Richard Reid? Aircraft saved by cabin crew vigilance.

Sorry if the truth is "scary".

[Classic]

Get over it jealous people!!!!!!!!!!

You've misinterpreted the posts if you think it's jealousy that inspires people's comments. Think again.

[keeperboy]

Nigel, hear what you are saying, but I think you have to put things into perspective a little bit. Anyone from another airline, or SLF could totally get the wrong idea by the way you are portraying things.

YES, on a Cairo we MAY take bunk rest. But why not? We will typically get maybe 45-60 minutes rest on a Cairo. And if any of you were us, on an aircraft with overhead crew rest and bunks what would you choose to do with your (short) break? To take your rest sat on an atlas box in a busy galley? (which is of course your perogative) Or, escape the madness for 45 minutes to the quietness of the rest area and read, nap, or do what takes your fancy Within reason lol)? Saying that, we can also operate to DAR or EBB or NBO on an aircraft with NO crew rest area. Not making that point to appear like it is our right to have bunks, but just reinforcing the point that the only reason bunk rest would be taken on a CAI is because the a/c on that route happens to have them fitted.

Would either of the pilots not use the Flight Crew bunks on a Cairo for a short nap if they were tired?

YES, a minority of crew will moan when we are full in Club. But the majority of us ALSO raise our eyebrows at these people and think 'what a work shy git!'. They are no different to a minority of the flight crew who get on the bus, face like a slapped ar*e, who don't even BOTHER to say 'hello' to anyone or god forbid introduce themselves. But again, we are talking about the (unfortunate) minority.

As for the Captains authority and bunk rest issue. I believe that on the said IAD flight the Captain, without discussing it with any of the cabin crew, he simply LOCKED the crew rest area. Now surely that is not the actions of a good manager? I always find that GOOD Captains command a hell of a lot of respect from their cabin crew. If I was on a crew where the captain got all of us together and expressed a good arguement (such as the one you mention) for why we should have 'all hands on deck' or not use the crew rest area then I would certainly take notice. But just to stroll to the back of the aircraft and lock it.....?????

And as for the BASSA magazine, yes you are right. It can be very OTT and sometimes a little nasty and insulting. But fact is, at BA you would be mad not to be in a TU. And BASSA just happens to be the more effective of the two TU's we have to choose from.

:ok:

[Mike Oxbig]

I recently flew on a BA 767 from Heathrow to Chicago. My company normally book me with United, which I have found to be a chore! With BA the flight was great. The staff were very attentive and helpful and I will ask the company to book me with BA again!:D

[normal_nigel]

Keeper

Without my "mischievous" head on I do agree with some of your points, but not the FC bunks bit orthe locked door?? Not what I heard. It was a simple instruction.

As with many things the minority let the majority down, however there are a small militant bunch who do seem to be driven by self interest.

99% however are great.

Still don't like BASSA though. An old boys club with their own interests at heart.

ps Mike, our 767's never go to ORD.

[Flying_Sarah747]

I agree about BASSA as well. They annoy me so much sometimes. I don't see why they have to be against the company so much. It's like everything BA say and do BASSA has to be against it. Unfortunately as Keeperboy said, we have to be in a union just in case anything does go wrong...It doesn't mean that we always agree with everything they say...I know I don't.

P.S. If the Captain locked the bunks, why didn't the crew just unlock them again??????? The doors are locked through much of the flight anyway, so I don't get what the fuss was about?!?!?!

[Classic]

keeperboy said:Would either of the pilots not use the Flight Crew bunks on a Cairo for a short nap if they were tired?
No. Never happens.
Ever since a member of a 3-man Classic crew was reported by a crewmember for using the bunk on a route which didn't have bunk rest, no-one uses the bunk when not authorised.

And so now I take good note on which routes cabin crew bunk rest is allowed and what cabin crew actually do.:ok:

[bartygwailo]

Classic wrote:

"keeperboy said:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Would either of the pilots not use the Flight Crew bunks on a Cairo for a short nap if they were tired?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No. Never happens.
Ever since a member of a 3-man Classic crew was reported by a crewmember for using the bunk on a route which didn't have bunk rest, no-one uses the bunk when not authorised.

And so now I take good note on which routes cabin crew bunk rest is allowed and what cabin crew actually do."

This is exactly the sort of petty sniping between different groups of employees that motivated me to leave BA. How childish to deny your colleagues a perk, because once someone did the same thing as you are doing!?!!?

Sour grapes?

[wanderin_star]

I choose not to use B.A. for long haul flights for the many reasons quoted before. I was rather amused by keeperboys comment that on 95 pct of flights he has worked on, the crew have come round with juice and water between meals. Really - well can I ask the question why not on the other 5 pct of flights. 5 pct works out quite a lot of flight for a busy airline. Also is there not a standard policy for frequency of drinks or is it down to the individual cabin crew. I would be interested to know what the official policy is for drinks service.

[keeperboy]

Hi wanderin,

I just checked out the 'Longhaul Economy Service Guidelines' on the intranet. Regarding juice rounds it states 'where appropriate'. I guess this could be left open to interpretation of the operating purser and perhaps needs to be addressed.

Keeps

[wanderin_star]

Thanks for reply keeperboy. As a passenger and observer I would have thought a juice round every hour or so would be advantage to passengers and crew. Would stop passengers perhaps bothering crew in galley for a drink and would make passengers feel they have not been forgotten. But as I said, I am only passenger and observer.

[Middle Seat]

Its all perspective. For those of you all in a titter about the lack of BA service, I'd invite you to spend a year as SLF in the back on a major US domestic carrier doing transcons both nonstop and with a change of planes somewhere on (take your pick ORD, MSP, DTW, CVG, STL, PHL, or DEN). BA won't look so bad.

[sosmix]

Some people are saying their attacks on BA on not because they are jealous.

Years ago I worked for Caledonian Airways at Gatwick (luckily not for long). Cabin crew there used to apply to BA every year, I remember one purser saying he'd failed to 'get into' BA for the 10th time (so that's 10 years trying) it was his dream job. BA is seen as the ultimate airline to work for by a lot of crew.

There ARE jeolous people out there. A friend of mine used to slate BA at every chance - now she's 'got in' the jealous digs have stopped.

My trainer at Cal Airways used to bitch all the time about BA - guess where he now works?!!!

I've worked for 2 airlines before BA and they were FULL of bullies making your life a misery, because they were so miserable. Probably the same types posting anti-ba stuff on this forum.:rolleyes

[bushbolox]

Well while you lot are in this cyber back galley gossiping I'm stuck in world traveller minus gagging for a glass of orange, and my call bell has been on for 10 minutes. Get a grip:E

[williewalsh]

About time you lot had to work for a living. I'm on to yee

[Bus429]

I've had cause to post about poor standards on KLM and SAS in the recent past.
I've flown BA many times, domestically and internationally. I must say that, invariably, CC and service were good to excellent, even during rushed Shuttle flights. Ground-based staff let themselves down once during a delayed departure to Philadelphia (no info) but I feel BA is one of the better airlines. Flights with Qantas have also been very good in my experience.
I've had poor service on SAS, KLM, EK, American, Air Canada and RBA, to name a few; it's the luck of the draw!

[Speedbird767]

Hi all,

This is my first post on the PPRUNE forums, so I hope I havent stepped in at the wrong time. However, after keeping a close eye on this thread, I thought I would air my views with regards to BA cabin crew.

I havent had the pleasure of flying BA longhaul that often unfortunately. The company I work for seem to like using the overseas flag carriers rather than our own national airline for some strange reason. However, the few times that I have flown BA longhaul, I have always been impressed by the crews very high standard of service. There may well be times when the service is inconsistant. Maybe if I flew BA more often, I would have a slightly different opinion, although I highly doubt it.

From what I have experienced though, I only have positive comments to make. I am looking forward to my next BA long haul flight to LAX in June. I know a longhaul CSM, so im kind of hoping that she can sort out an upgrade if possible. Im keeping my fingers crossed.

Keep up the good work guys and gals.

Regards,
Lee.