bmi pilots to call crewing at end of every duty day [Archive]

acbus1

20th Jul 2005, 17:59

I say, it is to give crewing maximum flexibility to shaft you wherever possible !
It certainly gives greater potential.

But what all this "rostering at minimum notice" really does is to allow minimum staffing levels, saving on cost. The penalty is chaos for all (yes, including "poor old" Crewing), the result of which is ruination of aircrew lives/friendships/marriages/sleep patterns/health.

Since only aircrew are affected, not profits or schedules, then it'll persist until aircrew stand up for themselves.

Seems, from the general consensus here, that aircrew regard the ruination of their lives as "perfectly normal", so you've only got yourselves to blame!

Some of you even seem proud of the disruption you put up with! One born every minute (luckily, for the likes of bmi) :rolleyes:

catchup

20th Jul 2005, 18:08

I fully agree.

regards

Right Way Up

20th Jul 2005, 18:09

Acbus1,
I cannot see why ringing crewing makes roster disruption any different. If they want to change your roster they will . What it does mean that is that the proper recipient of the change does not slip the net, which would then cause a lot of disruption the next day with even shorter notice changes.

acbus1

20th Jul 2005, 19:21

What it does mean that is that the proper recipient of the change does not slip the net, which would then cause a lot of disruption the next day with even shorter notice changes.

Your logic is sound in the very short term.

If you think a little further and consider the situation as a feedback loop, you come to a different final conclusion........

What this extra tie to Crewing (phoning after end of days work) means is that Crewing can achieve with even more certainty scheduled departures with aircrew numbers cut to the bone.

Greater certainty, in turn, permits even fewer aircrew, saving even more cost.

Saving even more cost = even more lovelee monee in certain people's pockets (and I don't mean the aircrew's, Crewing, Operations or any of the other mugs who seem happy to have their lives ruined).

Lack of certainty in Crewing (someone "slipping the net" as you put it) requires higher aircrew staffing levels in order to provide the necessary buffer. The person who has "slipped the net" has, thereby, secured less disruption and a better life.

OK?

max magic

20th Jul 2005, 19:28

Totally spot on ac bus1 :ok:

Gents,

If any of you have had to put up with constant roster disruption for 6 years, believe me - you WOULD feel the same way.

more views from bmi pilots please

trainer too 2

20th Jul 2005, 21:04

Why to call them?
They know where we are, for sure!

It means you can call them when it suits you rather than being called at all the wrong moments, also saves Ops so much time because even in the time of mobikle phones it is hard to find some people....

bmimainline

20th Jul 2005, 23:18

Simply write 'Crewing called but engaged on the Flight Report' - At least you tried <g>

Endeavour

20th Jul 2005, 23:53

Ironically, the idea of pilots calling in at the end of each day's duty actually came from BALPA! :\

Phileas Fogg

21st Jul 2005, 00:20

Not having a chip at anybody but pilots can be the first to complain 'what are you doing calling me during my rest period or on my day off?'.
OK, sh1t will still happen but at least it will help your rest time to be exactly that, time away from work and not worrying about work.
The regulations stipulate that you need the minimum required rest period, let us say 12 hours, before commencing a duty thus that is the notice period required.
Please bear in mind that the crewing bod does not have satellite navigation as to when you might be in the crew room, he or she is just trying to earn a salary the same as you are so why not just work together?
What's the problem?

bacardi walla

21st Jul 2005, 05:51

One would think that in this age of technology, the phone would be the last thing to use when checking in with crewing ! How come more airlines don't use simple "swipe in swipe out" systems so that operational changes can be seen on the screen? For example, once signed in at the end of a duty will show the crew off duty time and any changes collected. Thought BMi had this anyway ??

calsar

21st Jul 2005, 06:56

Welcome to the world of China Airlines. We have to that or be fined if if don't. This airine has a one day standby per month per pilot system ( not paid for) so any disruption or sickness, you work out the math.
Good luck Calsar

Little Blue

21st Jul 2005, 07:25

What are the flight deck afraid of?
Roster disruption has to be expected because of the circumstances that we find ourselves in. It's not an ideal world
and there are not thousands of available crew to slot into place everytime someone goes sick/ aircraft goes tech etc etc.
This has to be better than being called at all hours in your own time.
And for those that really still do think that crewing have it in for you and have nowt better to do than "shaft you", then I really believe that you are in the wrong profession.
:mad:

INKJET

21st Jul 2005, 07:31

We can't in this day and age have it always, i agree that stable rosters are very important, i don't mind roster changes that switch me from one route to another, these sometimes can mean an earlier finish than planned, sadly more often not, but that goes with the turf.

I do object to turning up, expecting to be home tonight only to find that i wont be.

By and large most crewing staff know the Awkward squad and tend to be ok with them that are ok with crewing.

I really can't see why any one should object to checking out with crewing,roster disruption is another matter and should be tackled as such.

Airlines are well behind many companies in technology terms i have friends who following days work is on the laptop when they get home.

Burt

bmimainline

21st Jul 2005, 08:25

Ironically, the idea of pilots calling in at the end of each day's duty actually came from BALPA!

I see it became BALPA's fault rather quicker than normal. It will be their fault when my Granny falls down the stairs next Christmas as well - just to let you know in advance. Perhaps you can tell us where that little gem came from.

Most pilots accept the fact that the company need to be able to contact them to make sure the program is covered - some don't. Unfortunately because the management of the problem is so poor they can't deal with the few who cause the problems for the many. The same people who did not call crewing in the past will not call crewing in the future either - no matter what the edict is from the company. - it won't make one jot of difference. Infact it is going to make it worse to start with. For many the easy way out will be to block window their entire roster - more so than before.

Rick Binson

21st Jul 2005, 08:53

I have to do it in easyJet using the computer at the end of every shift. I don't get many roster changes but resent having to do it.

All those that bleat on about "in this day and age" etc. More fool you for being taken for a ride by your employer.

BA rosters are set in stone, AFAIK they don't have to call crewing at the end of their duty. They can be "Forced Draft" but only if crewing can get hold of them!

That is the key. If you didn't have to check out at the end of every shift crewing would have to get hold of you to notify you of a change. Simple solution - mobile switched off until next rostered duty.

If you want your employer to control your life so be it - I don't and can sympathise with the original poster.

Don't forget BA can generate £400m profit and still run this system. Your employers must be laughing all the way to the bank with their lower crewing costs :{

Red 69

21st Jul 2005, 11:44

This WILL lead to more disruption. This WILL lead to a further lowering of morale. This WILL lead to bmi losing even more people. This WILL lead to increased training costs. They may think they can save money in one area but all they do is to shift it elsewhere.

What would they do if nobody rang in? Trouble is there's always those that will. Those too mouse like to stand up for themselves. The company is full of them which is why they get away with what they do.

When I joined this company it was expanding and prospering. A really good place to work. Now it's contracting and floundering and is a dreadful place to work. yes I will be voting with my feet just as soon as something else comes along. A view shared by many.

CosmosSchwartz

21st Jul 2005, 12:15

Just think, all those extra phone calls to ops at the end of shift will also use a lot more electricity, increasing carbon emissions, adding to global warming and eventually, BMI will be responsible for the end of the world!:hmm:

Get a grip, it's a 30 second phone call to say we're all home, A/C servicable and are there any changes.

How often when you phone ARE there actually any changes?

My company runs the same system and usually the only changes are when we're on standby the next day and the company knows we're needed. I'd rather know then than get a phone call at 6am.

My company rostering system is far from perfect and succeeds in driving most of the crew mental but a simple phone call to ops at the end of shift is far from being the root of the problem.

One Step Beyond

21st Jul 2005, 12:52

Of course the programme needs to be covered, but that's managements problem, not yours. If needs be, they should recruit more pilots, not screw around the ones they have.

The solution to calls on day off is very simple, buy a pay-as-you-go phone, give that number, and that number only, to work and only switch-on on standby days. Problem solved.

Persumably bmi will reimburse all these calls from personal mobiles...

Airbus215

21st Jul 2005, 13:40

bmi crewing is an 0800 number so in theory provided you use a landline or happen to have a mobile tariff that allows 0800/0500 calls there will be no cost to reimburse!

And im sure im right in saying all bmi captains have company mobiles !

This really is no different to calling the same 0800 number prior to leaving home when operating a bmi charter or bmi baby flight to ensure report time hasnt been delayed .....

Sorry but cant see any reason for the objections or is that those from the pointy end resent being told what to do .....

Come on people is a 30 second free call really such a big deal ?:*

Red 69

21st Jul 2005, 14:10

Yes, it can be a big deal. If you're on a 0500 standby the next day then that gives you a report of up to 0700 if you're called at the start of duty. If you call in the night before then you can be 'got' for a duty reporting after your minimum rest which in all probability will be a damn sight earlier than 0700. Not only can that spoil your evening but your morning too! That to me is a definite reduction in lifestyle!

Why also do they always always always roster you to start on an early shift after leave? I always request a late start to recuperate after leave as it's generally a long haul break I've taken. I've never in the last 5 years started back on a late. Why? Because they want every last drop out of you they can, that's why! The downward trend of lifestyle and benefits continues. At least I have a couple of glimmers of light at the end of the tunnel.

Where are all the changes NT promised? Nowhere. It was nothing more than the usual hot air and empty promises we've come to expect.

routemargo

21st Jul 2005, 15:43

Jetset, you're right about the decline of bmi mainline and that more pilots will leave. That appears to be exactly what the company wants. The company have been transferring work to the lower cost/higher productivity parts of the business for several years.

Look what happened at EMA -now just a baby and regional base. The embraers have all but taken over domestic routes from LHR at the weekends - despite the scope clause. The new baby product starts from LHR next month - how long before it's flown by baby pilots?

The dilution of your terms and conditions is bad news for us all. Until the three balpa CCs start working together, the company will continue to exploit our differences at your expense. This would never be allowed to happen at BA. What is it that makes their CC so much stronger? Higher balpa membership?

Right Way Up

21st Jul 2005, 17:17

Jetset,
Sorry I may have the wrong end of the stick here, but I believe the thread is about ringing crewing just before the END of a duty. Whether you ring crewing or they get you in the crew room you are still on duty and liable to roster changes.

CFD

21st Jul 2005, 17:21

Under the current system with names on the board to ring crewing the call often is not answered.It is not just 30 seconds at the end of a duty.At times it can take numerous calls and some 20 minutes to get an answer.I have even had the phone picked up and immediately hung up on me. If this is going to go through then how about some give and take like under no circumstances unless on a standby,contactable or you have rung in offering to sell do they ring you at home?

oscarh

21st Jul 2005, 18:33

One step beyond
With an attitude like that, I sincerely hope you forget to switch on your phone on the standby during which you are required and that the consequences to you are severe.

JW411

21st Jul 2005, 19:05

If the BMI pilots really are up in arms about checking in with crewing at the end of a duty then they do not have long to go.

I suspect that the objection is only from the usual few promising hysterics.

superste

21st Jul 2005, 19:14

acbus 1/ jetset

Do you fully understand the causes of roster disruption?

Do you have any idea of the workload HAVING to disrupt rosters causes crewing?

Do you have any appreciation of how roster disruption impacts on the company as well as the individual?

Do you believe that bmi management really wants roster disruption?

Do you have any interest in answering these questions?

acbus 1, you constantly posts remarks that suggest the answer to all the above would be: NO.

For people with an attitude like yours, it doesn't matter what decisions the company makes, you only have the ability to see it through your own bitterness.

Airbus215

21st Jul 2005, 22:17

ACBUS1

Nice to see that your still as bitter and anti bmi as ever .

Having taken the time to review your postings it seems to date you have yet to post anything other than anti bmi vitriolic diatribe.

Maybe you should take some time to consider that your bitterness could be better channeled .

Please consider that your hidden agenda does nothing for your credibility within the Pilot community.

Once again you use pprune as a vehicle for your anti bmi feelings.

Had your posting have been made by any other forum user it would have had had credibility, sadly your previous postings have ensured that it is only viewed as the vitriolic rants of a bitter person.

Airbus

bmimainline

21st Jul 2005, 23:21

usually the only changes are when we're on standby the next day and the company knows we're needed
Your post sums up why the only people qualified to comment on this thread are bmi pilots. You clearly work in a completely different environment. I suspect the only thing we have in common is flying aeroplanes. The company have dictated that you have to call in even if you are on days off the next day!. Yes - nothing to do with being on standby. bmi pilots don't just get called off standbys which is a fair cop, they are subjected to all sorts of roster changes at the last minute from lates to earlies from not nightstopping to nightstopping. This is all about sticking plasters rather than sorting our the real problems. Millions of pounds have been spent trying to sort out these problems over the last few years and the pilots have been promised time and time again that the problem will be sorted. Rather than being sorted we are all taking a step backwards -who is accountable for that!

Don't compare what happens in your company to what happens in any other company.

Phileas Fogg

22nd Jul 2005, 01:01

(Why also do they always always always roster you to start on an early shift after leave)

Because they can. According to the regulations, originally written by a pilot (with no legs), for the pilots, you can commence at 0600 local after a day off.

An airline cannot be criticized for adhering to the regulations, there are plenty around that don't adhere. A pilot expects the airline to adhere to the letter of law, well what's good for the goose .....

superste

22nd Jul 2005, 08:46

bmimainline,

Your post sums up why the only people qualified to comment on this thread are bmi pilots

Yet again another post, like acbus1, which suggests that you are not prepared to consider valid opinions of others.

At present you and an number of other pilots may suffer roster disruption as a result of one pilot not being contacted.

Now, if that pilot was successfully contacted????

Yes, it is disruption if you are that pilot, but the overall disruption is potenially reduced.

It is by no means the answer, but it is a small step towards reducing roster disruption and it will obviously not end there.

bmimainline

22nd Jul 2005, 09:36

Yet again another post, like acbus1, which suggests that you are not prepared to consider valid opinions of others.

The previous post contained no valid opinions for me to consider for the reasons I explained in my post. Like many on this thread you are not listening to anyone else other than yourself.

Bart O'Lynn

22nd Jul 2005, 10:01

ACBUS,

I work my ass off. Iam flexible with my employers. I dont suffer from any of the afflictions in your post re family health etc.
Maybe if you suffer from any of those it may be a personnality, pshycological or genetic problem, and not your company's. Take a year off and find out.

If you wanted such a stable predictable existence why on earth did you become a pilot. Didnt you read the small print . Over staffing is a sure way to a permanant case of no staffing.

Im not for free flying or employers taking the pish , rather a mutually beneficial arrangement of flexibility tempered by a sensible proffessional approach.

It never fails to baffle me why people turn into such office clerks having worked so hard (in most cases) to get to the front of an aircraft.

Then again i came to the Uk system having already formed my personal philosophy and passion for flying in a less jobsworthy enviroment and wasnt poisoned by the elitism of it all. Usually characterised by the "how dare you , i'm a captain " brigade.Closely followed by the how hard we work gang and the "youve disturbed my rest" mob , said while wide awake watching telly.

Almost as laughable as the fireman claiming to be hard working heros 24/7 while still mangaing to sleep, run second businesses, and master the finer point of pool. (had to stick that one in)

:ok:

Edited to add: those of you that are dissollusioned with bmi rostering to a point where you are ready to walk will get a rude awakening when you do unless you go to BA where you can be a stable number who is more tired than a bmi pilot.

Some of the selfish ,childish, jobsworthy, unproffessional attitudes toward their companies do not bode well if those same attitudes migrate to operating aircraft. Or is the term unprofessional only valid when someone is critising a mistake or actions of a Captain who screwed up.

Right back to reruns of trisha, I hope they dont disturb my rest.:8

CosmosSchwartz

22nd Jul 2005, 10:22

The company have dictated that you have to call in even if you are on days off the next day

Ignoring the arsey tone of your reply, maybe I didn't make myself clear.

We have to call ops at the end of every shift, whether we're on standby the next day, working the next day, on leave, off to the moon, whatever.

The point I was making was that in the majority of cases the only roster change given is to call someone in off standby. There are occasions when the next days roster is changed, or even days later in the month/week.

Don't even think for a minute that BMI have rostering problems that none of the rest of us can understand, almost all airlines have exactly the same moans. It's just that the rest of us don't throw out toys out of the pram over it.

You don't fly for bmiBABY by any chance do you? My that would be ironic ;)

Vol7

22nd Jul 2005, 11:35

MY GOD!!!
I can't beleive some of the rubbish I am reading, how on earth can this be such a big deal to some Pilots.
The idea behind this is not to shaft crew members but to improve relations and roster disruption.
What is the difference between them putting your name on the board or you calling in anyway (at least this way you are free to go straight to your cars after getting off the aircraft rather than the office to check if your needed).
You get 30mins from being on blocks before you are off duty so during this time call in (oh dear such a hardship). This is standard practice at a lot of other airlines and will dramatically reduce roster disruption caused by the few that refuse to call in even if their name is on the board at least this way the onus is on them and can be properly repremanded when they continue with their refusal to call in (These peoples attitude makes me sick when they believe rather than having a change of duty they would rather their colleagues are shafted) Now ask yourselves are crewing screwing you over are management screwing you over or have you indeed been well and truly shafted by your counterparts (The few ignorant counterparts that result in mass disruption!!!)

bmimainline

22nd Jul 2005, 17:02

Ignoring the arsey tone of your reply, maybe I didn't make myself clear.
Do me a favour mate and stick to what has been written rather than making up a comment like that to suit the argument you are trying to make.
Depending on what duty you are finishing and where you are finishing you do not always have 30 minutes of duty time to make this call - if you are positioning you may go off duty on arrival at the gate. The next thing I'll be asked to do is call in on a day off - again people who do not know the detail (like yourself) are posting complete uninformed rubbish in this forum. - now, was that arsey enough for you

superste

22nd Jul 2005, 17:45

bmimainline

Like many on this thread you are not listening to anyone else other than yourself.

Firstly, I am listening to others, I am just merely making a point from the company's point of view.

Secondly, CosmosSchwartz is also advising us of how it works in other Airlines. All you did was shoot him down in flames.

From your posts, I read it that you do not believe the new system will work and you believe it will make things worse. Fine.

My point is to those who think the system is designed to "shaft them."

I believe this not to be the case, as made in my previous post.

dirty737

22nd Jul 2005, 18:20

No standard practice at my place... But, who pays for the call?

catchup

22nd Jul 2005, 18:48

Seems to be common on the island....

Leftover of M.Thatcher?

regards

Hudson Bay

22nd Jul 2005, 19:26

Just claim the cost of your phone call back. I do. Average about £5 a month. I also claim my rental back and nobody questions it.

Level2

23rd Jul 2005, 07:56

In the airline I work for it has always been included in post flight duties to call Crewing to check for changes. Most Pilots I talk to would rather find out what changes they have in advance to stand half a chance of planning their lives during a busy summer season.
How any airline can run without the 'call crewing after flight' or 'swipe system' is beyond me. I can assure you that the method of ringing in after a flight is a very effective way for Crewing to manage roster changes and reduce roster disruption. It's not an aid to 'shaft' people as stated in the first post that's a ridiculous comment. Trust me I like nothing more than to sit there all month and let the rosters run as published and keep everyone happy but in our airline we have delays, sickness etc so that's never going to happen.

Here's an example of how that quick call can save disruption;

Captain 'A' gets back from his flight and turns his mobile phone off. He has a change in two days time after his days off. He was on an 0600z standby but has been changed to a 1500z DLM flight. Crewing print off a list of all pilots who have changes for the following day and realise that Captain 'A' (knowing him well!) won't switch his phone on until 0600z at the start of his standby. 1500z DLM ! Ouch that won't be legal off his standby ,what shall I do? Damn he was our last standby aswell. I know we'll delay Captain 'B' off his 1130z PMI flight onto the 1500z DLM and call captain 'A' for the PMI which is legal. Oh and sorry Captain 'A' you'll now be doing Captain 'B's 0630z PFO tomorrow as he won't be in hours. He'll be doing your 1300z SZG instead.

acbus1

23rd Jul 2005, 09:34

It's clear that a wide variety of people are posting their views.

Least qualified of those are the non-aircrew who aren't subject to frequent changes in personal life at ridiculously short notice. They should definitely butt out of the discussion. Their opinions are of absolutely no value whatsoever.

Then we have a group of non-bmi aircrew. If you don't or haven't ever worked for bmi then you have absolutely not the slightest concept of the degree of the problem. What goes on in your airline (and I have experience enough to be able to comment) is just a taster of the sort of thing going on in bmi. So why don't you lot butt out as well. You're doing your bretheren in bmi a disservice by protesting that your life is just fine. Lucky you.

As for evidence of the effects, the disbelievers are obviously not keeping track of the stress related and lifestyle related illnesses on record, nor the effects on divorce rates and resignations.

Basically, lots of waffle out of the tops of lots of hats, as is usual on PPRuNe.

Any, repeat any bmi aircrew (except the inappropriately named management) of more than four or five years experience of the effects of bmi's totally selfish, short-term-penny-pinching (at the cost of pounds) approach will testify to the complete destruction of any decent form of life beyond the time spent slaving to fill the pockets of a few greedy, not to mention lucky (in a business sense), individuals.

So, stand up for yourselves, bmi aircrew and tell them where to stuff their roster disruption.

All bmi have to do is recruit more pilots and get more organised. One costs money, but saves more in the long run, the other.....getting more organised....well....the impossible may take longer!

MaximumPete

23rd Jul 2005, 10:09

I cannot get my head round this one!

You can buy a seat on line, get your seat number so you know what sort of aeroplane it will be so..... why can't the crew be rostered and FLY the roster they are given.

Standardisation of aircraft means that all your pilots can fly all your aircraft. I accept there must be roster changes due to training committments.

I felt for a long time that the sub-culture at the management level that was endemic in the bmi crewing department was the root of their problems.

Don't shoot the messengers!

MP ;)

Faire d'income

23rd Jul 2005, 12:38

I'm non BM so please don't bite my head off if I'm wide of the mark.

It seems to me flight crew have at least some degree of responsibility for aircraft, crew, passengers, maintenance at out-stations, fueling, incidents etc, punctuality, standards and of course safety.

Some airlines then also want you to take some responsibility for their rostering! And more than half the posters here think its a good idea!! Maybe we should get invloved in payroll and other departments ( because getting paid suits us! ). Wise up people.

CosmosSchwartz

23rd Jul 2005, 12:47

acbus1 - Well don't bloody post on a public forum then. Last time I checked there was a BMI forum so why don't all you hard done BMI types sod off there and moan! You seem to be talking more about roster disruption in general, and the decay of your quality of life at BMI over time. You're absolutely right, those of us not at BMI don't know what it's like there, and I sympathise if conditions have deteriorated as they seem to have done everywhere else. However, that was not the subject of this thread. In saying that, despite what you and bmimainline seem to think, practically all airlines have roster disruption. We all get calls and some point or another changing our next days flying, hell I even get called some mornings to change THAT days flying. I've seen nothing in anything posted by BMI pilots that's worse than what goes on where I work and at a few other airlines where I've got friends working.

Notwithstanding all of the above, the point was about calling at the end of shift and I still can't see any way that increases your roster disruption. If the roster is changed it's changed. Whether you call at the end of shift or get woken at silly am by a phone call from ops what difference does it make, you're still getting changed!

As the post related to calling ops at the end of a shift, I'd suggest that it's you guys who don't know what you're talking about, seeing as you don't actually start doing it until Monday. The rest of us who do it as a matter of course are telling you it makes little or no difference to roster disruption. Maybe you should listen.

Time to go back to the land of non-bmi and non-aircrew in our ignorant little world.:hmm:

Little Blue

23rd Jul 2005, 20:45

Yup, I'm non-aircrew, but, working for bmi at the other end of the argument in ops/crewing, so I see for myself the consequences of crew not calling in, despite their names being written on the board in either HUGE red letters, or printed on the sheet.
It's a two-way thing, innit.
Shaft your colleagues or play ball.

Phileas Fogg

23rd Jul 2005, 20:46

(They should definitely butt out of the discussion. Their opinions are of absolutely no value whatsoever.)

There are two sides to every story, there are logical reasons for many things and for those who are prepared to listen.

b mi baby

24th Jul 2005, 12:25

despite their names being written on the board in either HUGE red letters, or printed on the sheet.

I understand what you are trying to say but you need to acknowledge the fact that the people who do not respond to their names on the board in HUGE RED LETTERS will still not phone in just because the company ask them to. The new system will be far easier to abuse because:

1. The name will not appear anywhere anymore - much less visible.
2. There is no way the company can monitor engaged tones so will never be able to dispute a 'I called but could not get through'.
3. There will also be no need to go to the crew room anymore after a duty reducing even further the chances of contact.

You are right about it being a two way street though which is exactly why there are so many disgruntled crew at the moment.

Maximum

24th Jul 2005, 14:40

Those who cannot see this for what it is must be young, naive or both.
This phone call to crewing after duty should not be accepted as the norm unless you are quite happy to have no life outside work at all.
Let me try to explain why.

In bmi (like many other airlines) pilots work very disruptive shift patterns, yet do not get the kind of days off one should be entitled to as a shift worker to recuperate and have some kind of normal existence outside work.

The seemingly innocuous phone call to crewing basically leads to a situation of perpetual standby. So for example, you thought you were on earlies tomorrow, now at the last moment you're switched to lates, or you're nightstopping or both. Say goodbye to any arrangements you may have made for a life after work.

It's not that the guys complaining are inflexible, or not willing to help the company out occasionally. It's simply that it's all take by the company and no give.

I repeat, this phone call just puts everyone on a semi-standby throughout their week's duty, making it so much more flexible for crewing and the company, and so much harder for the pilots to make any plans outside work at all.

max magic

24th Jul 2005, 17:05

Well said maximum :ok:

Bezi l

4th Aug 2005, 04:58

Guys - it can't be that bad calling crewing at the end of every shift. You've been doing it for over a week now, and no-one seems to be complaining. I take it that the process is working, and bringing about a greater understanding between the flight crew and operations. Which is how it should be. We all need to work together to make the airline a success. :ok:

cavortingcheetah

4th Aug 2005, 07:08

;)

A greater understanding between the Ring Master and The Clowns? Somewhat risible, no?
I used to have to call Crewing at the end of each shift. The line was always busy, or so one used to find. No problem. Go off duty. Call crewing each hour on the hour until you get through. That's a duty call then. Twelve hour rest, or whatever, starts from the time you put that telephone receiver down having spoken with Crewing.
' Course, you can only do that if you're fairly well up on the Seniority List. But it doesn't half make 'em squeal at head office!:eek: Great Fun!:E

Mr R Sole

9th Sep 2005, 22:27

acbus1:

Then we have a group of non-bmi aircrew. If you don't or haven't ever worked for bmi then you have absolutely not the slightest concept of the degree of the problem. What goes on in your airline (and I have experience enough to be able to comment) is just a taster of the sort of thing going on in bmi. So why don't you lot butt out as well. You're doing your bretheren in bmi a disservice by protesting that your life is just fine. Lucky you.

My last employer had shocking rostering stability, far worse then could ever be imagined at bmi. We didn't have the practice of phoning ops when we landed and it was a pain in the backside. Many crews refused to answer calls from crewing when not at work - which they are prefectly entitled to. This left standby crews resorting to the fact that their standby duty was not safe. I recall once getting called out on a standby and operating and then heading home and then getting called out when I got back home! I recall one evening returning home after a tiring day on a late. I was in bed assleap when 10 hours after finishing my duty my phone rang which woke me up from a deep sleep. I answered it since I was up anyway and it was a roster change and probably one that could of been passed onto me if my last airline had the practice of phoning crewing once you land and before you finish your duty.

My new company has the policy of phoning crewing when we land and this is works well since I would rather be told whilst I am still at work if I have a duty change which is rare. This avoids crewing trying to call me in my time off which is a bonus. If I have a standby rostered for the next day and I am on a early (for example) then I like to know in advance instead of 5hitting the bed when the phone goes at silly o'clock in the morning. The process of phoning crewing works well and normally the forst back to the crew room phones and any changes (which are rare) are passed to the rest of the crew.

But if it is really as bad as you say it is, how do you expect bmi to recruit anyone to solve the crewing crisis? Sitting beside a moaning sod for a days duty doesn't fill me with much enthusiasm! I have always thought that bmi mainline bus drivers sound pissed off on the R/T... told one to cheer up one dark and quiet evening at ABZ whilst he was taxying out - needless to say that he didn't bite!

Arkroyal

10th Sep 2005, 09:33

Roster disruption has to be expected because of the circumstances that we find ourselves in. And with that attitude, little blue, you simply fuel the dodges we have to invoke to keep out of your grasp.

As maximum points out at the top of this page, pilots have lives, as complex and worthy as yours.

You have a stable roster pattern and can plan yours. We are expected to be on 24/7 call out except on days off, and you even want to be able to contact us then, too.

If you want me, you'll get my name 'on the board' or whistle.

In one 28 day period recently, I carried out just three duties as rostered. Is it any wonder I try to avoid you wherever I can?