UK Airports under 1 Million pax p/a

[Devonair]

Just having a look at the latest figures from CAA and the increases of passengers at the UK's "secondary" regional airports. Out of the following: BOH, EXT, MME, NWI, HUY, DSA and INV which do you think will reach the 1 million mark first? And in what order do you think they will be in terms of pax at end of financial year 2005/6

[aeulad]

Undoubtedly will be DSA.

Regards

Mike

[southender]

Regrettably, not SEN

Cheers

Southender

[holidaymax]

Order at the end of this year will be

MME
BOH
EXT
INV
HUY
NWI
DSA

Order at the end of next year will be.

DSA
EXT
MME
BOH
INV
NWI
HUY

[NorthOfRiver]

No disrespect to the other airports but DSA will be streets ahead in the next year or two. It's got everything going for it and serves the 4th largest city in England. It will be up there with the likes of Nottingham, Newcastle and Liverpool.
My own airport Humberside, will fair a little better than holidaymax's predictions, I hope.

[jabird]

Why was CVT left out of this?

Provisional Section 106 limiting pax to 0.98 mil per year until a new agreement is made for the permanent terminal?

CVT is not without its problems, but still has plenty more room for growth yet - and as for catchment areas, there is probably more population within 120 mins than almost all of the cities above combined - would probably have to leave DSA out of it, I wouldn't want to provoke its supporters, especially as there are so many of them.

[FLYboh]

In respect of BOH. With everything that has been announced for 2006. BOH should handle circa 1.2 million and if TOM base another 737 then this figure will rise again.

[egnxema]

Is Sheffield REALLY England's 4th largest city? Bigger than Liverpool, Newcastle, Leeds, Leicester, Bristol?????

Just wondering.

:ok:

[Leodis]

This is something that can be disputed for days on end. The size of a city can be measured in many way.

Population
Number of people employed
Number of businesses
The area the city covers

The list is endless.

Manchester and Birmingham have been flighting for the second slot for years, likewise Leeds vs Manchester or Liverpool for the third slot. If the Metro areas aren't included then Leeds is bigger than Manchester.

Here goes anyway.....

London
Birmingham
Leeds
Sheffield
Manchester

Include the Metro areas.....

London
Birmingham
Manchester
Leeds
Sheffield

rant over, back to pprune

:8

[NorthOfRiver]

Is Sheffield REALLY England's 4th largest city? Bigger than Liverpool, Newcastle, Leeds, Leicester, Bristol?????

I think I read somewhere that Doncaster has a higher population than both Newcastle and Leicester.
Considering Doncaster is South Yorkshire's second city/town or whatever it is, it just goes to show the potential of DSA.

Saying that, a lot of people think that Humberside airport is desolate but it's not the case. Hull has approx quarter of a million population, and you have Grimsby, Scunthorpe and a great many small towns.

[niknak]

I wouldn't argue with the lists, with the exception of HUY, who will suffer from DSA's success, and if they get 1m plus passengers within the next ten years, I'll stand a round at the Marrowbone and Cleaver, (all you have to do is find it:E ).

[mmeteesside]

Well this year MME is predicted to break through the 1m barrier, and I think this could be our summer! Hopefully might end up on 1.1/1.2m ;)

mmeteesside

[NFI]

Niknak

Just put a note in my 10 year diary and I will see you in a pub in Kirmington.:ok:

[BPL321]

Might be worth considering BLK to hit the 1m mark soon. They reckon 1.2m in 2006. Compared to 70,000 in 2003 I'd say that was pretty good going for a small regional airport. Considering they have plans for a new terminal and with all the new routes being announced recently my bet is BLK will give LPL a run for its money in 5 to 10 years.

[terrywilcox]

Just check out 'city mayors' on google. Doncaster is the UKs largest town,and is no 21 largest on list including all cities. Must admit Doncaster is a metro district,but is virtually a city,and will be in the very near future. It is a boom town,and growing very fast. Pop today must be around 1/2 mill.

It has a larger population than Newcastle,Hull,Nottingham or Derby to name but a few. A few surprises there I guess.

[Devonair]

Opps forgot about CVT! Sorry CVT fans!

My guess would be as follows:
DSA
CVT
EXT
BOH
MME
NWI
INV
HUY

Think EXT, BOH and MME will be very tight indeed and they may interchange in positions. I am going for EXT at the moment though cos I'm Devonian!:D

[King Pong]

By comparing the size of the town or city with its airport then Luton is doing very well. With a population of around 160,000 its airport is now attracting 8.4 million passengers. Either Luton folk are very rich or they are attracting many inbound passengers who come to the town for a curry. I suppose being close to London might help Luton’s figures though.

[onion]

You have to remember that places like Leeds has Bradford next door to it with no real end of one place and start of the next., like wise Newcastle has Gateshead. Remember that LOndon is actually that big, you have to take into account the City of Westminster etc. So I think that to decide on population sizes for airports it is easier and more acurate to say out to a radius of x from each airport of drive time.
Devonair CVT will not handle as many passengers as MME, BOH or EXT for many years to come if ever. DSA may take them over next year although it'll be tight and if not next year will probably do it the year later.

[MrDearne]

Have to agree with Onion with regards to area population and airport pull in that saying Doncaster is bigger than Newcastle is a little skewed. The city centres of Newcastle and Gateshead are separated only by the width of the Tyne a couple minutes walk. I think you'd have to include Gateshead’s population with Newcastle and that would push Newcastle up with Leeds and Manchester.
Doncaster is pretty much a stand-alone centre, but the road, motorway and rail link network with Sheffield, Rotherham, and Bassetlaw are very good, and can be reached in minutes.
The one thing Doncaster (as a stand-alone centre) has got going for it, is its enviable geographical location. It’s set to become a logistic and transport communication hub, which will see unprecedented and continued growth, and a user friendly town/city for airport passengers and freight.
A good indicator of measuring success rate is on the average passenger per flight ratio. Using the CAA figures, DSA is up there with the big boys at an average of 109 per flight, and ahead of the next in the (said topic) list, MME (86).
I think most of the above airports will grow, but problems may arise when funding/finance is needed to upgrade terminals, lengthen runways etc in order to meet demand.

[blahblahblah]

"I think you'd have to include Gateshead’s population with Newcastle and that would push Newcastle up with Leeds and Manchester."

I don't think so. Population of Newcastle on Tyne is 260k and Gateshead 190k giving a total of 450k. Leeds has 715k and Manchester is bigger.

Why does everybody think that Newcastle has this huge population?

[GrahamK]

Indeed, Newcastle is very small. Whats the total if Sunderland is included btw?
And can we call Carlisle a suburb of Newcastle? :}

[onion]

I think that to get from Sunderland to Newcastle airport it actually takes longer than if you travel from Sunderland to Durham Tees Valley due to having to go round Newcastle to get to the airport.
In terms of population Newcastle is similar to Middlesbourgh in the way that the populations are relatively small compared to what people actually think they are. I know that Middlesbourgh and Darlington are actually almost the same size in terms of population. The difference occurs when poeple start including towns like Thornaby and Billingham into the Middlesbourgh figure. This happens at Newcastle when people conviently forget that places like Gateshead, North and South Shields are all seperate places.
Regarding the figure for Manchester does that include the City of Salford? Is the City of Manchester really as big as people think!!!

[terrywilcox]

Onion,to be fair there is Manchester City,and Greater Manchester,which are totally different animals. What about London (outside the city). It is made up of many towns and even cities.

As far as conurbations for airports are concerned,Doncaster and South Yorkshire ( Sheffield,Rotherham and Barnsley) are very similar in some ways to London. Having dense areas of population,and all within easy travelling distance of the airport.

The transport infrastructure around Doncaster is,I believe,unique,and lends itself to massive growth.

Added to that,when the Americans find out from where their ancestors actually came (Pilgrim Fathers and Mayflower country,and the home of John Wesley,founder of Methodism)we will not be short of tourists.

Almost forgot,and how could I,Nottingham,source of the Robin Hood mythology,just 40 odd miles down the road.:p

[Arbottle]

The stats for city population are misleading as they do not take into account conurbations, and some places (Like Doncaster) are towns that have large defined areas with a lot of other towns in them. If you included the towns around Coventry then you can bolster its population up to 700,000 no problem.

Anyone who thinks Manchester is smaller than Sheffield is a fool - Manchester is the centre of a huge conurbation of 2,000,000 people or possibly more. Sheffield's conurbation is much smaller, and Nottingham & Leicester are both joined to large towns that are NOT included as part of their city count.

Nottingham's urban conurbation is much larger than Doncaster's, and so is Leicester's.

[jabird]

"A good indicator of measuring success rate is on the average passenger per flight ratio. Using the CAA figures, DSA is up there with the big boys at an average of 109 per flight, and ahead of the next in the (said topic) list, MME (86)."

DSA and CVT are slightly skewed by just having 737 base operators. BHX has lots of regional jets and turboprops, but I don't think is any lesser an airport because of it. CVT's growth has been stunted (or some could argue boosted) to some extent by the fuss over its terminal, so this should move forward once the new permanent facility is built.

Terry, I'm not sure if this US connection is really going to be that significant - if it was, wouldn't there be large numbers there already? Much as though I want to encourage inbound visitors, I would expect the majority of pax at DSA to be heading out on holiday to sunnier climes.

[MrDearne]

Nottingham's urban conurbation is much larger than Doncaster's

Arbottle

I totally agree, Greater Nottingham (613,000) greatly exceeds Doncaster's population by over 300,000.
As autonomous cities go, Sheffield has in fact a larger population than Manchester, and Doncaster is larger than Nottingham.
Conurbation wise (a network of continuous urban areas), I think there are about 10 autonomous councils that form Greater Manchester, 4 that contribute to Greater Nottingham, 3 contribute to Sheffield and just the one that forms Doncaster. So yes, in that respect Manchester is greatly superior to Sheffield, and Doncaster is pretty much the infant.

Back to the initial point, however, DSA, in a regional context, is served very well in terms of population (Doncaster, Sheffield, Barnsley, Rotherham, Chesterfield, Bassetlaw) much the same way NEMA is (Nottingham, Derby, Leicester). If airport pull is determined by local population then DSA has the edge over the others in the list.
However, if that was the case then shouldn't LBA be one of the leading UK airports. Whichever way you look at it, conurbation or autonomous wise, Leeds/Bradford is a hugely populated region.


jabird

BHX has lots of regional jets and turboprops

The above mean nothing to me, I wouldn't know a turboprop if it parked in my garden. I am not an aviation enthusiast, I just enjoy number crunching and want to see DSA and HUY do well.
I would have thought though that the likes of Heathrow, Luton, Manchester, Gatwick, Stanstead see their fair share of regional jets and turboprops, and they are still averaging over 100+ pax per flight.

[Andy_S]

However, if that was the case then shouldn't LBA be one of the leading UK airports. Whichever way you look at it, conurbation or autonomous wise, Leeds/Bradford is a hugely populated region.
The other thing you need to consider, though, is the impact of neighbouring airports. And just over the Pennines is Manchester, which like it or not has become the de-facto hub for Northern England. Once established as the dominant force in it's region, airports like Manchester tend to attract routes and operators on a scale disproportionate to the local population. Like it or not (and obviously LBA's, erm, particularly dedicated supporters won't), the infrastructure and economies of scale at MAN will attract business which in an ideal world might have gone to Yorkshire.

[Dash-7 lover]

Small point but I presume the 'DSA' everyone refers to is Doncaster..... try the IATA code 'DCS'....

[rodan]

Incorrect, I'm afraid. Doncaster Sheffield's IATA code is 'DSA'. It was indeed going to be 'DCS', until someone pointed out the potential confusion with the Dean Cross VOR, which is also designated 'DCS'.

(That's the story I heard, anyway).

[symphonyangel]

Not quite right, it was a three way choice - RHA (for Robin Hood Airport) was already taken, FLY was considered consistent with Finningley and a nice code to have for an airport , but it had been taken by St Finlay in New Zealand, so DSA for Doncaster Sheffield was preferred.

[Leodis]

It would be a sensible approach to think that all airports have a good future. The aviation world is expanding far faster than anyone could have imagined even as little as 15 years ago. The 'natural' airports like Manchester, Gatwick, Stansted and Heathrow were one day the only alternative for people to catch a flight. Other airports have caught up over the years such as Birmingham, Luton, Nottingham East Midlands and Newcastle . It would be fair to say that from now and in the years to come airports like Leeds Bradford, Doncaster Sheffield and other either new or up and coming airports will join the big league. This seams the natural progression. Obviously the individual airports catcment area and the airports capacity will play a roll as to how big each airport can grow.