SAA Cadet scheme

[kobus]

Hi, ok:

How often does SAA take in cadet pilots?
I saw an advert in the Sunday paper recently for their cadet scheme (closing date 12 Aug 2K5), is this the only time that they take in pilots or do they select another batch in the beginning of the year (January?)

[kobus]

anyone know? :)

[captain cumulonimbus]

KOBUS ,boet,with a name like that,i don't fancy your chances with the cadet scheme...sorry bro but its HIGHLY B.E.E. focussed,so the White,Male,sector is not what they are really looking for.Rightly or wrongly,i believe they only really operate the scheme to promote "empowerment".:mad: :\ :\ :\ :mad:

[zssp]

Ya i think weve been over this subject way 2 much ... koubus read that fine fine print that u cant see i had 2 get a microscope ... no whites aloud

[davidjh]

I (unfortunately) have to agree with the others Kobus. I am leaving the country as Jakes Gerwel and Khaya Ngqula are of the opinion that because I'm of European decent, I am not part of the demographics of the "new" SAA.:(

Sorry, but that's the truth.

[kobus]

:} Hiya guys!

Didn't ANYONE ever see the group of cadets selected previously? Maybe I'm color blind, but I DID see a white male there. I can't remember his name, but Google will.

Captain Cumulonimbus, thanks for making me laugh! I reaa-llyy needed that.

"With a name like that"
http://kaos.forumsplace.com/images/smiles/To%20funny.gif http://kaos.forumsplace.com/images/smiles/rofl.gif

I think what this forums needs is a change of attitude towards the programme. A little positivity wouldn't kill you. You're so detached on the B.E.E. ideology that you've totally lost touch of the fact that white males are STILL regarded, contrary to popular belief.

All this is doing is discouraging people from the cadet program. I'm not saying that if you're a white male then your chances aren't as good enough as a black female, but you still do stand a chance. Remember that.

:ok:

[praenoscere]

Didn't ANYONE ever see the gruop of cadets selected previously?

Spot the spelling mistake and win a place on the SAA CADET SCHEME:}

[captain cumulonimbus]

I said "rightly or wrongly"...i'm not passing judgement on the cadet scheme or BEE,in fact i think it is a necessary measure in our society,but it does get very frustrating for those who are denied on demographic grounds.It is,however,NOT VERY LIKELY that,as a white male,you will get in.That is reality .I think most other people here would agree.

[cargodoor]

When i spoke to someone last year that had been through the course the stats were something like this:

SAA on average has 2 intakes a year of +- 8-14 new students.
There are something like 1000 applications for each intake.
OF the 8-14 positions they will SOMETIMES reserve one of those places for a white male.

Not the most favourable stats to ponder over if you are a white male. There is poobably more chance of Kevin Peterson playing cricket for South Africa this December than there is for that single spot. Statistically it could happen though.

I'm not sure if these stats are completely accurate just from what i heard.

[kobus]

Incorrect.

They take in 32 applicants in total during the year.:ok:

[African Tech Rep]

Kobus I wish you luck – but for your own sake please don’t rely on getting in, infact expect not to.

True my info is “second hand” as I’m a ground hugger but from my visits (inspections) at SAA it seems that they have changed the “tokens” – the white faces you see are the token whites – after all SA is a rainbow nation.
And I’ve heard LOTS of stories about “indigenous Africans” making major errors and being forgiven vs “non indigenous Africans” making very minor errors and being out / demoted / transferred.

I once REALLY wanted a job with a specific airline, so much so I concentrated almost exclusively on them and after the interview actually turned work down cause I was sure I was going to get my dream – I got it.
As the Irish say “I hope you get what you want AND want what you get

[JY-ABH]

,just out of interestKOBUS ,howcome you're so interested in the cadet scheme if your profile says you're a 737-800 pilot with an ATPL?:confused:

[SpootNICK]

I think kobus is trying very hard to wind us up.........

He asks a question, gets a few replies and then jumps in to correct us all.....as if he knew the answers in the first place.

Will be sure to take all his future questions/answers with a pinch of salt.....as he clearly seems to know it all.

SN

[JY-ABH]

I must agree with you SpootNick.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Possibly a cadet trying to justify his appointment? :rolleyes:

[sky waiter]

I being a white male, and not being able to afford to learn to fly applied to the cadet scheme applied five, yes five times, on the third attempt i flew two sim sessions in a very basic mock up of a prodedural trainer, nothing fancy, was told this was the final 74 people of selection, didn't get any further than that. Now not saying it was a racist thing ( personally think i made stupid mistakes) at all but the next intake had 1 sim session, and every intake has different selection phases, no commonality, my flight school at which i work is presently biddding for the cadet scheme training, will i then have to instruct the candidates in a program to which i no longer am eligible to apply for because i have more than 60hours and then one day let them be my superiors if i ever manage to get into our flag carrier, which would be my dream come true?:*

[Bucket]

Of the last five courses going through 43 Air School not one has included a white male. Think on....

[SebasW]

Up to now I've only seen ONE white male in the whole cadet scheme and as far as I know he's flying for link now.

[smooth landing]

Let me just say one thing. Not even the guys who are on the selective comitee think that their sons will have a chance. The training captains and chief pilots at SAA are sucking up to the guys/girls at Comair, Kulula.com etc.. so their sons can get a job there.

[Gimbal]

Where were you guys 20 years ago when the Air Force trained nobody but white males to fly ? Nobody complained then....

That too was a sponsored flying training program for a priviliged few.

And so, now a large majority of senior captains at SAA are ex-SAAF. Earning over 1.5 million a year...sending their kids to the best schools and eventually getting them into an airline career too (be it even Comair, Kulula etc.),and so on and so on, this is a chainlink process that will continue for generations.

How do other deserving South Africans start their chain of events for their families, if they never had an opportunity to get even one foot in the door ? Do you see a dilemma. Any suggestions.

[B Sousa]

this is a chainlink process that will continue for generations. How do other deserving South Africans start their chain of events for their families, if they never had an opportunity to get even one foot in the door ?

Gimbal..Check your Manifold Pressure........ If Im correct the topic is the fact that the chainlink process is NOT continuing..
Deserving is another word that has changed from the "20 years ago" that you mentioned. Based on what little I know of those folks Deserving meant good academic backround and a fair character appraisal, Yes color was a factor.. Today all it means is Non White.

[SpootNICK]

Gimbal,

I think you should think very hard about you comparison between the SAAF and SAA's cadet scheme......as I feel you have 'missed the boat completely'. :*

Joining the SAAF was not just about getting a pilots licence, it was about defending your country to the best of your ability. You cant tell me that flying solo at 600 Kts 100 ft off the ground......and then being SHOT at is the same as flying a J41.

The bottom line is, the SAA Cadet Scheme is designed to offer people who normally would not be able to pursue a career in aviation an opportunity to do so. And yes, there have NOT been many white males in the program over the years, but lets face it........demographially speaking, the previously disadvantaged communities out number us 10:1

So.....wind your neck in

Nuff sed.

SN

[kobus]

So how does putting people into the cockpit who for all intents and purposes do not have the means, passion or perserverance to do it on their own fit in this situation?

Then why do companies offer bursaries to students? Why do companies sometimes provide free training and bursaries to their employees? Why does Qantas, Cathay, and many other airlines run cadet training programmes?

You're making a mistake by saying that self-sponsored pilots find jobs hard to come by because of the cadet programme. It's because of the country's BEE laws, surely not because of the cadet programme.

And do you really think that none of the cadets have the passion for flying?

If there was an easier way in, wouldn't you at least try it? You're making a false assumption by saying that all cadets don't deserve to be where they are.

If I don't make it into the cadet programme, I'm going to pay for my own training and type-rating if necessary. Does that make me a job-hunter or one with a undisputed passion for all things aviation-related?

;)

[Zoltan]

"The bottom line is, the SAA Cadet Scheme is designed to offer people who normally would not be able to pursue a career in aviation an opportunity to do so."

If only the above said was true... I have heard from other SAA Cadets that majority of non-white cadets are actually better of than 80% of the rest of the population. If he, or his parents, can afford a mansion in Sandton, 2 BMW's and a holiday home in Cape town, Im sure another R200 000 odd would not hurt his pocket too much, and this is not a isolated case either, just one example..

Everybody talks about the previously disadvantaged, what about the presently disadvantaged ??

[Spetsnaz]

I've met some of these disadvantaged cadets and many of them have the latest 900 dollar cellphones and gadgets. Some are also 'well connected' if you get my drift.

[SpootNICK]

Zoltan,

If what you and Spetsnaz say is true.....then I feel very sorry for the few cadets who deserve their scholarship.....as the general flying community will tar them with the same brush (so to speak).

As I mentioned before, the scheme was DESIGNED for those previously disadvantaged communities who normally would not be able to persue a career in aviation. HOWEVER, if some hot-heads within SAA feel this is the easiest way to fast-track black pilots (with questionable backgrounds) into the airline then I am afraid SAA is a lost cause.

I pray that this is not the case,

God help them (and other aviators in their airspace) if it is.......

Ciao

SN

[Solid Rust Twotter]

SpootNick

Too late, mate...

Unfortunately, that's exactly the case. One cadet has already expressed his intention to leave and work for his father once his contract period expires (If it hasn't already done so.). Seems the airline life isn't as easy and glamourous as he envisioned....:suspect:

[Gimbal]

Some trivia for you boys.....

A couple of years back a white female cadet, after having completed her training in Australia and then having spent her time at Link finally got into SAA.

And then, suddenly without any provocation, decided to RESIGN! Why....because her boyfriend whom she met in Australia was lonely. So she immigrated to be with him. And the only reason she waited until she got into SAA was so that she wouldn't have to pay off a training bond. (passionate about flying, I think not).

Hows that for patriotism!!??

[busdriver]

I think most of you guys and girls seem to be missing the point of a Cadet Scheme. It is to provide a means of legal window dressing and a secondary benefit is that you get qualified pilots out the other end that suit your profile.

And yes, it can be exactly compaired to Varsity bursuary...... the same rules apply.

As a white englsh speaking south african, I applied in 1994 to participate in the SAA Cadet scheme and made it further than I thought (that is an out right objection) and was bulleted after the phycometric tests, which I thought was fair.

Now I could use the Racism card, as i was not Afrikaans enough for the SAAF and of the wrong colour for the SAA cadet scheme.... or when I finally had the required flying experience, not well enough conected with the Levin's, Spence's or Malan's for SAA. But I wont.

I had previously spent 4 years in the SAAF as a techie, after not making it into the SAAF Pilot selection. I sold pots and pans door to door, borrowed myself into a mound of debt and washed airplanes on weekends - paid my way into made it on my own steam into the best Airline in the world. And now I too get to have a say over our Cadet Program here during the selection and interview process.... where the same aligations are made by people who have nothing better to do with their lives but hold a grudge.

The perception here is that you have to be Chinese or an A-Scale Captains kid to qualify and subsequently all cadets that make it through the rigorous training machine and get their wings are in many ways looked down on and not accepted but the majority of pilots out there.....

As a species we will always be jealous and pregidest when we didn't get it all our way.

Wake up and smell the roses, pull your finger out of your a*se and get on with making life a success - Nobody out there gives a flying c&ap who you are and where you came from - BUT CAN YOU DO THE JOB THAT I WANT TO PAY YOU FOR - Capatilism!

Leave racism, gender and class out of it and say well done to those who get their wings whether by SAAF, SAA or by there own hard work or with daddies cheque book - or you will die of cancer stressing over things you cannot change!

[HappyPilot]

Leave racism, gender and class out of it and say well done to those who get their wings whether by SAAF, SAA or by there own hard work or with daddies cheque book - or you will die of cancer stressing over things you cannot change!
well said busdriver

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Riiiggghhhhttt.........:suspect:

Here's the deal;

If the SA govt and their cronies at SAA and other govt controlled "businesses" give the whole race, gender and class thing a rest, so will I. I'm sure others on here will agree but I'm not holding my breath waiting for results... :rolleyes:

[Deanw]

One cadet has already expressed his intention to leave and work for his father once his contract period expires (If it hasn't already done so.). Seems the airline life isn't as easy and glamourous as he envisioned....


I met one of the (PDI) SAA cadets not too long ago. He trained in Australia, obtained his CPL and then resigned to work for his father, who is not even in the aviation industry.

He still has the posters on the wall, model planes on his desk and loves aircraft, but I'm not sure why he left? :sad:

[SpootNICK]

"Wake up and smell the roses, pull your finger out of your a*se and get on with making life a success - Nobody out there gives a flying c&ap who you are and where you came from - BUT CAN YOU DO THE JOB THAT I WANT TO PAY YOU FOR - Capatilism!"


.........a valid point busdriver, one which I must agree with.

However, you and I live outside SA and dont see what is going on in the aviation industry - paticularly with regard to the old race/class/gender dispute. I have spoken with friends and family back home and by all accounts its still a major problem.

IN SOUTH AFRICA: Pale males are always going to have to be that much better than the next candidate inorder to succeed.

I say, if you cant find what your looking for in SA.....then do what many others have done (incl myself and busdriver) - Leave. There are many places around the world that will happily offer you an oppertunity based on merit and not race. SAD FACT - BUT TRUE.

SN

[kobus]

Hi, ok:

How often does SAA take in cadet pilots?
I saw an advert in the Sunday paper recently for their cadet scheme (closing date 12 Aug 2K5), is this the only time that they take in pilots or do they select another batch in the beginning of the year (January?)

A simple question like this and this thread went completely off-topic, focusing on BEE employment policies. I don't care about BEE, if someone wants something to happen for them and works toward it, it WILL happen, no matter what color your skin/eyes are.

[captain cumulonimbus]

But KOBUS ,i still don't understand why you want to get into the cadet scheme if,as your profile says,you're an ATPL on the 737-800s???????

Enlighten us all,please.

[SpootNICK]

Captain Charlie Bravo,

Ignore KOBUS......he's just fishing.

SN

[King Red]

Guys, its about calibre not colour. Well that what we would like to think. Unfortunately my day to day line experience has shown me beyond reasonable doubt that the calibre of the people they take into the cadet scheme is not up to speed. They are therefore hired for their colour.

Sad to say but black or white, bushman paintings are aften of the same colour. Skill is of utmost importance here. You are on your own at 100 or 10000 feet having to make a decision that the colour of your skin cannot help you with. Calibre, calibre, calibre.

On the other hand (Darren), I have met some really great cadets of colour who do deserve everything they have been given. People who are disadvantaged as individuals.

Also know of many cadets who by no means are disadvantaged individuals nor are their parents.

So what does the scheam actualy achieve. Not much in my opinion, just makes some pay for their own licenses and via tax for their copilt's license as well, cause not many cadets get to command a plane until their late 40's.